Author Topic: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron  (Read 10335 times)

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Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2020, 11:54:59 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Love ya, Truth, but you've lost some marbles with this one.



LeBron Raymone James is SQUARELY a top 10 player of ALL TIME, period.

And out of that list of players he stated, name me ONE that could've dragged that CLE team in 2006-07 to the NBA Finals.

An INCREDIBLE feat...doesn't get talked about as much as it should. LeBron Raymone James was INCREDIBLE that season.

Can anyone here name CLE's SECOND BEST player back then? Big Z? Side Show? In 2006-07?

EACH of those players had KEY help along their way...EACH of them.

I can't stand LeBron James from a COMPETITIVE standpoint, I give folks that much. But I hope that our Paul Pierce won't let the fact that James has run roughshod over BOS most of the time cloud his brain.

The NBA has been LeBron James' China Shop and guess who's the Bull (not Michael).
Uhhhh anyone not named Kobe on that list? Let's be honest, 2007 LeBron was not peak LeBron lol (2009-2017/2018). But yes, Pierce has lost his marbles with that take lol.

LeBron wasn't PEAK then but he certainly was good enough all-round to bring that team to the Finals then.

No one on that list could've taken that team to the Finals...not by themselves with that roster AS IT.

David ain't coming to help Duncan this time...no McHale and Chief to help Larry...........etc, etc, etc....
Duncan had one of the more impressive carry-jobs in '03 with a very old (but still amazing in limited minutes) Admiral while Larry turned a lottery Celtic squad into a title contender overnight without McHale and Parish. I think 2007 LeBron was clearly a level below rookie Larry, ntm peak Duncan. Most of the players he listed with the exception of Kobe (even then, 2006/2008 Kobe was a superior player compared to 2007 LeBron imo) would've very likely taken that Cavs team to the finals or even the promised land.

This isn't to say that LeBron isn't a top 5 player of all time (if not top 3 or 4 lol), I just think using his 2007 campaign to make an argument for Pierce losing his marbles isn't the best idea.

I get your argument but I still don't see ANY player on Paul's list taking that 2006-07 CLE team to the Finals.

LeBron did it.

I think Jordan could've.  I wouldn't put it past prime Kareem.  Heck, prime Shaq (who wasn't even listed) would've had a decent shot.   That was not a good Eastern Conference.

Mike may have had the TALENT but his LEADERSHIP style (which is NOW finally coming to light) would've broken that 2006-07 CLE team.

They would not have had Scotty Pippen to play Mom versus Mike's DAD approach. Everyone reportedly loved Scotty....Mike? Not so much......

Shaq? Kareem? Who is going to reliably get them the ball on that 2006-07 CLE team? Larry Hughes? David Wesley?

Whose going to defend the perimeter?

I don't know how you can say that Jordan couldn't get that team to the Finals while Lebron did? Very comparable talents. Leadership style?  NBA supporting casts buy into alphas all the time. They would've bought in.  It's happened through out the league's history.  I don't how Jordan couldn't have carried that team to the Finals also playing in a weak ass conference. 

Who's stopping prime Kareem or prime Shaq in those playoffs?  Brendan Haywood?  Nenad Kristic?  'Sheed?


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Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2020, 12:01:07 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Here ya go, Peeps

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2007.html

Name me ONE All-Star...All-NBA...All Defense...6th MOY...for that 2006-07 CLE team.

I may have missed one but I don't think I did.

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2020, 12:04:24 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Love ya, Truth, but you've lost some marbles with this one.



LeBron Raymone James is SQUARELY a top 10 player of ALL TIME, period.

And out of that list of players he stated, name me ONE that could've dragged that CLE team in 2006-07 to the NBA Finals.

An INCREDIBLE feat...doesn't get talked about as much as it should. LeBron Raymone James was INCREDIBLE that season.

Can anyone here name CLE's SECOND BEST player back then? Big Z? Side Show? In 2006-07?

EACH of those players had KEY help along their way...EACH of them.

I can't stand LeBron James from a COMPETITIVE standpoint, I give folks that much. But I hope that our Paul Pierce won't let the fact that James has run roughshod over BOS most of the time cloud his brain.

The NBA has been LeBron James' China Shop and guess who's the Bull (not Michael).
Uhhhh anyone not named Kobe on that list? Let's be honest, 2007 LeBron was not peak LeBron lol (2009-2017/2018). But yes, Pierce has lost his marbles with that take lol.

LeBron wasn't PEAK then but he certainly was good enough all-round to bring that team to the Finals then.

No one on that list could've taken that team to the Finals...not by themselves with that roster AS IT.

David ain't coming to help Duncan this time...no McHale and Chief to help Larry...........etc, etc, etc....
Duncan had one of the more impressive carry-jobs in '03 with a very old (but still amazing in limited minutes) Admiral while Larry turned a lottery Celtic squad into a title contender overnight without McHale and Parish. I think 2007 LeBron was clearly a level below rookie Larry, ntm peak Duncan. Most of the players he listed with the exception of Kobe (even then, 2006/2008 Kobe was a superior player compared to 2007 LeBron imo) would've very likely taken that Cavs team to the finals or even the promised land.

This isn't to say that LeBron isn't a top 5 player of all time (if not top 3 or 4 lol), I just think using his 2007 campaign to make an argument for Pierce losing his marbles isn't the best idea.

I get your argument but I still don't see ANY player on Paul's list taking that 2006-07 CLE team to the Finals.

LeBron did it.

I think Jordan could've.  I wouldn't put it past prime Kareem.  Heck, prime Shaq (who wasn't even listed) would've had a decent shot.   That was not a good Eastern Conference.

Mike may have had the TALENT but his LEADERSHIP style (which is NOW finally coming to light) would've broken that 2006-07 CLE team.

They would not have had Scotty Pippen to play Mom versus Mike's DAD approach. Everyone reportedly loved Scotty....Mike? Not so much......

Shaq? Kareem? Who is going to reliably get them the ball on that 2006-07 CLE team? Larry Hughes? David Wesley?

Whose going to defend the perimeter?

I don't know how you can say that Jordan couldn't get that team to the Finals while Lebron did? Very comparable talents. Leadership style?  NBA supporting casts buy into alphas all the time. They would've bought in.  It's happened through out the league's history.  I don't how Jordan couldn't have carried that team to the Finals also playing in a weak ass conference. 

Who's stopping prime Kareem or prime Shaq in those playoffs?  Brendan Haywood?  Nenad Kristic?  'Sheed?

I'll do you one better....

Whose getting Prime Kareem or Shaq the BALL in those playoffs? Not Kobe or Magic......

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2020, 12:15:00 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Love ya, Truth, but you've lost some marbles with this one.



LeBron Raymone James is SQUARELY a top 10 player of ALL TIME, period.

And out of that list of players he stated, name me ONE that could've dragged that CLE team in 2006-07 to the NBA Finals.

An INCREDIBLE feat...doesn't get talked about as much as it should. LeBron Raymone James was INCREDIBLE that season.

Can anyone here name CLE's SECOND BEST player back then? Big Z? Side Show? In 2006-07?

EACH of those players had KEY help along their way...EACH of them.

I can't stand LeBron James from a COMPETITIVE standpoint, I give folks that much. But I hope that our Paul Pierce won't let the fact that James has run roughshod over BOS most of the time cloud his brain.

The NBA has been LeBron James' China Shop and guess who's the Bull (not Michael).
Uhhhh anyone not named Kobe on that list? Let's be honest, 2007 LeBron was not peak LeBron lol (2009-2017/2018). But yes, Pierce has lost his marbles with that take lol.

LeBron wasn't PEAK then but he certainly was good enough all-round to bring that team to the Finals then.

No one on that list could've taken that team to the Finals...not by themselves with that roster AS IT.

David ain't coming to help Duncan this time...no McHale and Chief to help Larry...........etc, etc, etc....
Duncan had one of the more impressive carry-jobs in '03 with a very old (but still amazing in limited minutes) Admiral while Larry turned a lottery Celtic squad into a title contender overnight without McHale and Parish. I think 2007 LeBron was clearly a level below rookie Larry, ntm peak Duncan. Most of the players he listed with the exception of Kobe (even then, 2006/2008 Kobe was a superior player compared to 2007 LeBron imo) would've very likely taken that Cavs team to the finals or even the promised land.

This isn't to say that LeBron isn't a top 5 player of all time (if not top 3 or 4 lol), I just think using his 2007 campaign to make an argument for Pierce losing his marbles isn't the best idea.

I get your argument but I still don't see ANY player on Paul's list taking that 2006-07 CLE team to the Finals.

LeBron did it.

I think Jordan could've.  I wouldn't put it past prime Kareem.  Heck, prime Shaq (who wasn't even listed) would've had a decent shot.   That was not a good Eastern Conference.

Mike may have had the TALENT but his LEADERSHIP style (which is NOW finally coming to light) would've broken that 2006-07 CLE team.

They would not have had Scotty Pippen to play Mom versus Mike's DAD approach. Everyone reportedly loved Scotty....Mike? Not so much......

Shaq? Kareem? Who is going to reliably get them the ball on that 2006-07 CLE team? Larry Hughes? David Wesley?

Whose going to defend the perimeter?

I don't know how you can say that Jordan couldn't get that team to the Finals while Lebron did? Very comparable talents. Leadership style?  NBA supporting casts buy into alphas all the time. They would've bought in.  It's happened through out the league's history.  I don't how Jordan couldn't have carried that team to the Finals also playing in a weak ass conference. 

Who's stopping prime Kareem or prime Shaq in those playoffs?  Brendan Haywood?  Nenad Kristic?  'Sheed?

I'll do you one better....

Whose getting Prime Kareem or Shaq the BALL in those playoffs? Not Kobe or Magic......

Serviceable players can work the ball inside too.  Passing isn't something left alone to elite talents.  I'm pretty sure guys like Snow & Hughes can find a way to work the ball in the paint.

Shaq & Kareem were enhanced by guys like Kobe & Magic but they were also pretty [dang] good standalone talents and hall of famers, regardless.


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Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2020, 12:19:32 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Look...there is a LOT of butt kissing and back-slapping going on right now in regards to Michael Jordan. I get it.

But let's not forget how great LeBron James is...some of the things he's done...and he's not finished yet.

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2020, 12:27:01 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Love ya, Truth, but you've lost some marbles with this one.



LeBron Raymone James is SQUARELY a top 10 player of ALL TIME, period.

And out of that list of players he stated, name me ONE that could've dragged that CLE team in 2006-07 to the NBA Finals.

An INCREDIBLE feat...doesn't get talked about as much as it should. LeBron Raymone James was INCREDIBLE that season.

Can anyone here name CLE's SECOND BEST player back then? Big Z? Side Show? In 2006-07?

EACH of those players had KEY help along their way...EACH of them.

I can't stand LeBron James from a COMPETITIVE standpoint, I give folks that much. But I hope that our Paul Pierce won't let the fact that James has run roughshod over BOS most of the time cloud his brain.

The NBA has been LeBron James' China Shop and guess who's the Bull (not Michael).
Uhhhh anyone not named Kobe on that list? Let's be honest, 2007 LeBron was not peak LeBron lol (2009-2017/2018). But yes, Pierce has lost his marbles with that take lol.

LeBron wasn't PEAK then but he certainly was good enough all-round to bring that team to the Finals then.

No one on that list could've taken that team to the Finals...not by themselves with that roster AS IT.

David ain't coming to help Duncan this time...no McHale and Chief to help Larry...........etc, etc, etc....
Duncan had one of the more impressive carry-jobs in '03 with a very old (but still amazing in limited minutes) Admiral while Larry turned a lottery Celtic squad into a title contender overnight without McHale and Parish. I think 2007 LeBron was clearly a level below rookie Larry, ntm peak Duncan. Most of the players he listed with the exception of Kobe (even then, 2006/2008 Kobe was a superior player compared to 2007 LeBron imo) would've very likely taken that Cavs team to the finals or even the promised land.

This isn't to say that LeBron isn't a top 5 player of all time (if not top 3 or 4 lol), I just think using his 2007 campaign to make an argument for Pierce losing his marbles isn't the best idea.

I get your argument but I still don't see ANY player on Paul's list taking that 2006-07 CLE team to the Finals.

LeBron did it.

I think Jordan could've.  I wouldn't put it past prime Kareem.  Heck, prime Shaq (who wasn't even listed) would've had a decent shot.   That was not a good Eastern Conference.

Mike may have had the TALENT but his LEADERSHIP style (which is NOW finally coming to light) would've broken that 2006-07 CLE team.

They would not have had Scotty Pippen to play Mom versus Mike's DAD approach. Everyone reportedly loved Scotty....Mike? Not so much......

Shaq? Kareem? Who is going to reliably get them the ball on that 2006-07 CLE team? Larry Hughes? David Wesley?

Whose going to defend the perimeter?

I don't know how you can say that Jordan couldn't get that team to the Finals while Lebron did? Very comparable talents. Leadership style?  NBA supporting casts buy into alphas all the time. They would've bought in.  It's happened through out the league's history.  I don't how Jordan couldn't have carried that team to the Finals also playing in a weak ass conference. 

Who's stopping prime Kareem or prime Shaq in those playoffs?  Brendan Haywood?  Nenad Kristic?  'Sheed?

I'll do you one better....

Whose getting Prime Kareem or Shaq the BALL in those playoffs? Not Kobe or Magic......

Serviceable players can work the ball inside too.  Passing isn't something left alone to elite talents.  I'm pretty sure guys like Snow & Hughes can find a way to work the ball in the paint.

Shaq & Kareem were enhanced by guys like Kobe & Magic but they were also pretty [dang] good standalone talents and hall of famers, regardless.

I agree - with the stand-alone comment IRT Kareem and Shaq.

But neither of them are having any greater success than LeBron James against that Spurs team in 2006-07.

And when those two are doubled or tripled - who is Kareem and Shaq passing the ball out to? Sasha Pavlovic?

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2020, 12:53:15 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Love ya, Truth, but you've lost some marbles with this one.



LeBron Raymone James is SQUARELY a top 10 player of ALL TIME, period.

And out of that list of players he stated, name me ONE that could've dragged that CLE team in 2006-07 to the NBA Finals.

An INCREDIBLE feat...doesn't get talked about as much as it should. LeBron Raymone James was INCREDIBLE that season.

Can anyone here name CLE's SECOND BEST player back then? Big Z? Side Show? In 2006-07?

EACH of those players had KEY help along their way...EACH of them.

I can't stand LeBron James from a COMPETITIVE standpoint, I give folks that much. But I hope that our Paul Pierce won't let the fact that James has run roughshod over BOS most of the time cloud his brain.

The NBA has been LeBron James' China Shop and guess who's the Bull (not Michael).
Uhhhh anyone not named Kobe on that list? Let's be honest, 2007 LeBron was not peak LeBron lol (2009-2017/2018). But yes, Pierce has lost his marbles with that take lol.

LeBron wasn't PEAK then but he certainly was good enough all-round to bring that team to the Finals then.

No one on that list could've taken that team to the Finals...not by themselves with that roster AS IT.

David ain't coming to help Duncan this time...no McHale and Chief to help Larry...........etc, etc, etc....
Duncan had one of the more impressive carry-jobs in '03 with a very old (but still amazing in limited minutes) Admiral while Larry turned a lottery Celtic squad into a title contender overnight without McHale and Parish. I think 2007 LeBron was clearly a level below rookie Larry, ntm peak Duncan. Most of the players he listed with the exception of Kobe (even then, 2006/2008 Kobe was a superior player compared to 2007 LeBron imo) would've very likely taken that Cavs team to the finals or even the promised land.

This isn't to say that LeBron isn't a top 5 player of all time (if not top 3 or 4 lol), I just think using his 2007 campaign to make an argument for Pierce losing his marbles isn't the best idea.

I get your argument but I still don't see ANY player on Paul's list taking that 2006-07 CLE team to the Finals.

LeBron did it.

I think Jordan could've.  I wouldn't put it past prime Kareem.  Heck, prime Shaq (who wasn't even listed) would've had a decent shot.   That was not a good Eastern Conference.

Mike may have had the TALENT but his LEADERSHIP style (which is NOW finally coming to light) would've broken that 2006-07 CLE team.

They would not have had Scotty Pippen to play Mom versus Mike's DAD approach. Everyone reportedly loved Scotty....Mike? Not so much......

Shaq? Kareem? Who is going to reliably get them the ball on that 2006-07 CLE team? Larry Hughes? David Wesley?

Whose going to defend the perimeter?

I don't know how you can say that Jordan couldn't get that team to the Finals while Lebron did? Very comparable talents. Leadership style?  NBA supporting casts buy into alphas all the time. They would've bought in.  It's happened through out the league's history.  I don't how Jordan couldn't have carried that team to the Finals also playing in a weak ass conference. 

Who's stopping prime Kareem or prime Shaq in those playoffs?  Brendan Haywood?  Nenad Kristic?  'Sheed?

I'll do you one better....

Whose getting Prime Kareem or Shaq the BALL in those playoffs? Not Kobe or Magic......

Serviceable players can work the ball inside too.  Passing isn't something left alone to elite talents.  I'm pretty sure guys like Snow & Hughes can find a way to work the ball in the paint.

Shaq & Kareem were enhanced by guys like Kobe & Magic but they were also pretty [dang] good standalone talents and hall of famers, regardless.

I agree - with the stand-alone comment IRT Kareem and Shaq.

But neither of them are having any greater success than LeBron James against that Spurs team in 2006-07.

And when those two are doubled or tripled - who is Kareem and Shaq passing the ball out to? Sasha Pavlovic?

I'm still waiting to hear how Jordan wouldn't have been able to lead that team to the Finals because of "Leadership style" of all things?

No one is belittling Lebron's talent but I think a few of us find it to be a bit extreme to think that Lebron is the only one who could've carried that team to the Finals.


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Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2020, 01:15:09 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Love ya, Truth, but you've lost some marbles with this one.



LeBron Raymone James is SQUARELY a top 10 player of ALL TIME, period.

And out of that list of players he stated, name me ONE that could've dragged that CLE team in 2006-07 to the NBA Finals.

An INCREDIBLE feat...doesn't get talked about as much as it should. LeBron Raymone James was INCREDIBLE that season.

Can anyone here name CLE's SECOND BEST player back then? Big Z? Side Show? In 2006-07?

EACH of those players had KEY help along their way...EACH of them.

I can't stand LeBron James from a COMPETITIVE standpoint, I give folks that much. But I hope that our Paul Pierce won't let the fact that James has run roughshod over BOS most of the time cloud his brain.

The NBA has been LeBron James' China Shop and guess who's the Bull (not Michael).
Uhhhh anyone not named Kobe on that list? Let's be honest, 2007 LeBron was not peak LeBron lol (2009-2017/2018). But yes, Pierce has lost his marbles with that take lol.

LeBron wasn't PEAK then but he certainly was good enough all-round to bring that team to the Finals then.

No one on that list could've taken that team to the Finals...not by themselves with that roster AS IT.

David ain't coming to help Duncan this time...no McHale and Chief to help Larry...........etc, etc, etc....
Duncan had one of the more impressive carry-jobs in '03 with a very old (but still amazing in limited minutes) Admiral while Larry turned a lottery Celtic squad into a title contender overnight without McHale and Parish. I think 2007 LeBron was clearly a level below rookie Larry, ntm peak Duncan. Most of the players he listed with the exception of Kobe (even then, 2006/2008 Kobe was a superior player compared to 2007 LeBron imo) would've very likely taken that Cavs team to the finals or even the promised land.

This isn't to say that LeBron isn't a top 5 player of all time (if not top 3 or 4 lol), I just think using his 2007 campaign to make an argument for Pierce losing his marbles isn't the best idea.

I get your argument but I still don't see ANY player on Paul's list taking that 2006-07 CLE team to the Finals.

LeBron did it.

I think Jordan could've.  I wouldn't put it past prime Kareem.  Heck, prime Shaq (who wasn't even listed) would've had a decent shot.   That was not a good Eastern Conference.

Mike may have had the TALENT but his LEADERSHIP style (which is NOW finally coming to light) would've broken that 2006-07 CLE team.

They would not have had Scotty Pippen to play Mom versus Mike's DAD approach. Everyone reportedly loved Scotty....Mike? Not so much......

Shaq? Kareem? Who is going to reliably get them the ball on that 2006-07 CLE team? Larry Hughes? David Wesley?

Whose going to defend the perimeter?

I don't know how you can say that Jordan couldn't get that team to the Finals while Lebron did? Very comparable talents. Leadership style?  NBA supporting casts buy into alphas all the time. They would've bought in.  It's happened through out the league's history.  I don't how Jordan couldn't have carried that team to the Finals also playing in a weak ass conference. 

Who's stopping prime Kareem or prime Shaq in those playoffs?  Brendan Haywood?  Nenad Kristic?  'Sheed?

I'll do you one better....

Whose getting Prime Kareem or Shaq the BALL in those playoffs? Not Kobe or Magic......

Serviceable players can work the ball inside too.  Passing isn't something left alone to elite talents.  I'm pretty sure guys like Snow & Hughes can find a way to work the ball in the paint.

Shaq & Kareem were enhanced by guys like Kobe & Magic but they were also pretty [dang] good standalone talents and hall of famers, regardless.

I agree - with the stand-alone comment IRT Kareem and Shaq.

But neither of them are having any greater success than LeBron James against that Spurs team in 2006-07.

And when those two are doubled or tripled - who is Kareem and Shaq passing the ball out to? Sasha Pavlovic?

I'm still waiting to hear how Jordan wouldn't have been able to lead that team to the Finals because of "Leadership style" of all things?

No one is belittling Lebron's talent but I think a few of us find it to be a bit extreme to think that Lebron is the only one who could've carried that team to the Finals.

Please show me an example of how / when Michael "Has" lead a team far - with the same comparable talent as LeBron James on that 2006-07 CLE team?

At WORST - Michael had Rodman when Scotty was hurt...an All-Time great defender AND rebounder, among other things (agitator, intimidator....)

Scotty "DID" come back for the playoffs that year, when he was hurt.

LeBron did not get true "Alphas" with him until he got to MIA. It can be argued that the teams in CLE got "marginally" better in 07-08, 08-09 and 09-10 but not by much.

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2020, 01:37:45 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I think LeBron is undeniably top-5 all-time in talent, but he has nowhere near the strength of will or killer instinct that guys like Bird, Magic, Kobe, and Jordan had. He just doesn't. And if he doesn't have that, he can't be the greatest player ever.
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Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2020, 01:48:07 PM »

Offline Walker Wiggle

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It's not a crazy take. Lebron is one of the all-time greats, but you're suffering from recency bias if you think he's a lock for the top-5 all-time.

Do people realize what Russell, Wilt, Kareem, etc. accomplished in their careers?

Never mind Bird for a moment. What about Magic? He won 5 titles and redefined the PG position in the 80s. Is Lebron clearly "greater" than Magic?

How about Duncan? He was the best player on 5 title teams over an 18-year period, something that even Magic can't claim. Part of the reason those teams were so good was that Duncan knew how to take a step back, share the ball and the spotlight. He was basically a modern-day Russell, the perfect team player for his generation.

You can put Lebron in the top 5 if you want. But leaving him out of that echelon is far from crazy.

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2020, 01:50:43 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I think LeBron is undeniably top-5 all-time in talent, but he has nowhere near the strength of will or killer instinct that guys like Bird, Magic, Kobe, and Jordan had. He just doesn't. And if he doesn't have that, he can't be the greatest player ever.

He did in that Game 6 2011-12 ECF...ask BOS.

I had such HIGH HOPES that - after taking game 4 in MIA with PP34's miraculous game-winning shot - we'd finish MIA off in BOS.

LeBron James took over and was not going to be stopped. He kept coming and coming....an offensive onslaught of EPIC proportions....such dominance.

Granted - it can be argued that he may not have brought that ALL the time - but he showed me something in that game 6 ECF 2011-12.

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2020, 02:05:34 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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You could perhaps argue that Lebron has had the highest elevation on average of any player in history. He had a few lows, but not many. He had a few highs, but not many. In this sense, he is very much like Kareem Abdul-Jabar and Karl Malone, but probably slightly ahead of both.

I think you could also argue that Lebron never reached the heights of Jordan, Bird, and Magic. They may not have stayed at a high elevation as long as Lebron did, but each of them reached higher peaks than Lebron.

When we say tallest, aren't we saying what mountains have the highest peaks, not what mountain range on average stays at the highest elevation?

When we say greatest, aren't we saying what players reached the highest heights, not what players stayed at a high elevation longest?

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2020, 02:06:04 PM »

Offline gift

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The timing couldn't be more excellent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKc20Xa3mfQ

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2020, 02:15:26 PM »

Online Moranis

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I think LeBron is undeniably top-5 all-time in talent, but he has nowhere near the strength of will or killer instinct that guys like Bird, Magic, Kobe, and Jordan had. He just doesn't. And if he doesn't have that, he can't be the greatest player ever.

He did in that Game 6 2011-12 ECF...ask BOS.

I had such HIGH HOPES that - after taking game 4 in MIA with PP34's miraculous game-winning shot - we'd finish MIA off in BOS.

LeBron James took over and was not going to be stopped. He kept coming and coming....an offensive onslaught of EPIC proportions....such dominance.

Granted - it can be argued that he may not have brought that ALL the time - but he showed me something in that game 6 ECF 2011-12.
I think people forget about the pretty mediocre games guys like Bird had in close out games.  For example, Game 7 on Boston's home floor against the Sixers in the 1982 ECF, Bird was 7 of 18 for 20 points but 39% on your home floor in a game you lose to lose a series is not good.  Overall in the series Bird only averaged 18.3 ppg and shot just 41%.  The next year, the C's got swept by the Bucks.  Bird shot a bit better at 44% but still only averaged 18.7 ppg (he missed a game but played at least 35 mpg in the other 3).  The next year, Boston did beat the Lakers in 7 to win the title, but Bird wasn't very good in that final game.  He shot just 6 of 18 for 20 points.  He had 12 boards but just 3 assists.  Magic wasn't much better for the Lakers, which was the real difference in winning and losing.  In the 85 Finals the Lakers won in 6, and Bird was just a meager 12 of 29 for 28 points in that close out game.  In game 6 of the 87 Finals, the C's again lost the Finals and Bird was again very mediocre at just 6 of 16 for 16 points and he was just 7 of 18 in game 5 (though Boston won that one).  In the 88 ECF, game 6 in which the Pistons closed out Boston, Bird was 4 of 17 for 16 points.  He wasn't much better in game 5 (also a Detroit win) at just 9 of 25 though at least had more points than shots in that one with 27.

Bird had plenty of other stinker games throughout his playoff career.  I just think it was a different time and the level of scrutiny just wasn't like it is today. 

This notion that these guys of the past always performed just isn't borne out in reality.  Even Jordan had some games where he just didn't have it, though he would always just keep right on shooting.  I mean everyone remembers the 63 point game from Jordan, but the very next game he was 8 of 18 for 19 points (that was 86), the very next year in the Bulls final game Jordan was 9 of 30.  He scored 30 points because he got to the line a bunch, but he shot really poorly that game.  Even after Pippen hit his stride, Jordan still had plenty of games where he shot under 40% and often several times in the same series.  In 95 when Shaq's Magic beat the Bulls, Jordan was pretty bad in that series on the whole. 

We just remember them differently because they are in the past and you always remember the past more fondly than it actually is.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Paul Pierce trolls Lebron
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2020, 03:05:19 PM »

Offline blink

  • Dennis Johnson
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I think LeBron is undeniably top-5 all-time in talent, but he has nowhere near the strength of will or killer instinct that guys like Bird, Magic, Kobe, and Jordan had. He just doesn't. And if he doesn't have that, he can't be the greatest player ever.

He did in that Game 6 2011-12 ECF...ask BOS.

I had such HIGH HOPES that - after taking game 4 in MIA with PP34's miraculous game-winning shot - we'd finish MIA off in BOS.

LeBron James took over and was not going to be stopped. He kept coming and coming....an offensive onslaught of EPIC proportions....such dominance.

Granted - it can be argued that he may not have brought that ALL the time - but he showed me something in that game 6 ECF 2011-12.

I have to agree with GF1819 on that game.  Lebron stuck a flaming sword in all of the hearts of Celtic fans everywhere in that game.  Such a painful memory.
We HAD that series.  What I am not sure about that game is how much did the C's letdown after winning game 4 effect it?  Probably not much, Lebrah just exerted his will to take that game.

So is PP crazy that Lebron isn't top 5, yes he is crazy.  I love it too, he still wants to take Lebron down.