Author Topic: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's  (Read 15074 times)

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Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2009, 04:51:12 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Davis would bre foolish not to accept such a contract in today's economy, considering what he went thru this year, and with all the big name free agents next year. This guy rose from the gutter to a bigtime NBA player. 4 years and 10 million sounds pretty darn good to me.
The average NBA player makes around 4 million a year. If he's a "bigtime" NBA player I can see why he'd balk at half that.

Of course what he really is, is an average bench player.

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2009, 05:45:30 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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Why would BBD sign a 4 year deal for small money to come in here and ride the pine? Now that Shelden Williams is signed he will have to split minutes with yet another big as I doubt they brought him in to get no minutes at all. Scal also could take some of those minutes if he starts playing like he did prior to that head injury. There might be quite a few DNP's in sight for him.

If he doesn't get a much better offer look for BBD to sign the one year offer and become un-restricted next season where he has a better chance of getting paid. He will have one more year of proving he can play, and one more year of hopefully keeping the weight off.

If Davis is here, he will be well ahead of Williams in the rotation.  Given the age and injury history of the three guys ahead of him, Davis would likely be playing 10-15 minutes per game if everyone is healthy, and will likely average between 15-25 minutes per game for the season, due to the fact that he will inevitably fill in for stretches when there are injuries.  

And I think he may actually help his value by playing shorter minutes this year.  Last year, he struggled keeping up the defensive intensity he had early in the season when he started playing 30 minutes a game.  But if he is playing 15 minutes, he can go really hard for pretty much that entire time, and show that last year was not a fluke.

I don't think there are 15 minutes out there for him. Sheed is going to play a vast majority of the minutes that are left over behind KG and Perk. There are 96 potential minutes at the 4 and 5 spot. Each will average 32. Sheed will take 25+ more if not 30. That leaves 2-7 minutes max. Even if you drop KG and Perk down to 30 that only leaves 6-11. Unless Shelden never plays that doesn't leave enough time for BBD.

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2009, 06:24:56 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Why would BBD sign a 4 year deal for small money to come in here and ride the pine? Now that Shelden Williams is signed he will have to split minutes with yet another big as I doubt they brought him in to get no minutes at all. Scal also could take some of those minutes if he starts playing like he did prior to that head injury. There might be quite a few DNP's in sight for him.

If he doesn't get a much better offer look for BBD to sign the one year offer and become un-restricted next season where he has a better chance of getting paid. He will have one more year of proving he can play, and one more year of hopefully keeping the weight off.

If Davis is here, he will be well ahead of Williams in the rotation.  Given the age and injury history of the three guys ahead of him, Davis would likely be playing 10-15 minutes per game if everyone is healthy, and will likely average between 15-25 minutes per game for the season, due to the fact that he will inevitably fill in for stretches when there are injuries.  

And I think he may actually help his value by playing shorter minutes this year.  Last year, he struggled keeping up the defensive intensity he had early in the season when he started playing 30 minutes a game.  But if he is playing 15 minutes, he can go really hard for pretty much that entire time, and show that last year was not a fluke.

I don't think there are 15 minutes out there for him. Sheed is going to play a vast majority of the minutes that are left over behind KG and Perk. There are 96 potential minutes at the 4 and 5 spot. Each will average 32. Sheed will take 25+ more if not 30. That leaves 2-7 minutes max. Even if you drop KG and Perk down to 30 that only leaves 6-11. Unless Shelden never plays that doesn't leave enough time for BBD.
Even last year Perk did not average over 30 minutes a game. In the playoffs he averaged 36 but that was when he was our only shot blocker. Doc often was forced to leave him in even when completely gassed.

My guess is Perk is around 26-28 if KG/Sheed are healthy.

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2009, 06:40:45 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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yeah, the qualifying offer makes the most sense.... or at least something shorter: $6/2, $9/3 looks a lot better than $1/1.

Then he can test the waters again.
Tell that to Leon Powe. He was in line for a double digit multi-year contract and then he hurt his knee. Now he's likely to get a minimum deal.

I can see Baby playing for the QO, but I hope he doesn't for his own sake. Injuries can happen all to easily in the NBA and could seriously cost him his chance at a contract.

Wow I guess we'll agree to disagree with this sentiment.

Logic tells me if they thought that much of him he would still have signed him to the minimum knee injury or not.  But we'll never know now.

Um, what?  You don't think that had Powe not injured his knee, the celtics wouldn't have offered him a 4 year/12 million contract?  I'd have said that would have been the lowest  contract he would have been looking at as a FA. He should have been able to attract offers above that from other teams. Even in the current lousy economy and shrinking salary cap.

But once he hurt his knee (for the 3rd time), he was stuck with a 1-2 year minimum deal if he can find it.  No one is in a hurry to sign a guy with a history of knee injuries before he can even jog. I love Leon but I think he's going to have to prove he'll be able to recover before a team signs him.  I'm interpreting all the David Aldridge stories as his agent trying to drum up interest so that someone will sign him before the season starts. There is just too much risk in a guy with that many injuries to the same knee.

BTW I'll be happy with any contract that keeps BBD here at least two more years at 3 mill/year or so. If he's smart he won't play for the qualifying offer.  Conditioning concerns would kill his value if he had a lower body injury.
It's not clear that the Celtics were that set on re-signing Powe, regardless of injury. It might be that the injury just made making a decision simpler. Of course, we will probably never know since he got injured.

I expect that if Powe hadn't been injured, he definitely would have been tendered a qualifying offer though.

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2009, 07:07:17 PM »

Offline Chris

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Why would BBD sign a 4 year deal for small money to come in here and ride the pine? Now that Shelden Williams is signed he will have to split minutes with yet another big as I doubt they brought him in to get no minutes at all. Scal also could take some of those minutes if he starts playing like he did prior to that head injury. There might be quite a few DNP's in sight for him.

If he doesn't get a much better offer look for BBD to sign the one year offer and become un-restricted next season where he has a better chance of getting paid. He will have one more year of proving he can play, and one more year of hopefully keeping the weight off.

If Davis is here, he will be well ahead of Williams in the rotation.  Given the age and injury history of the three guys ahead of him, Davis would likely be playing 10-15 minutes per game if everyone is healthy, and will likely average between 15-25 minutes per game for the season, due to the fact that he will inevitably fill in for stretches when there are injuries.  

And I think he may actually help his value by playing shorter minutes this year.  Last year, he struggled keeping up the defensive intensity he had early in the season when he started playing 30 minutes a game.  But if he is playing 15 minutes, he can go really hard for pretty much that entire time, and show that last year was not a fluke.

I don't think there are 15 minutes out there for him. Sheed is going to play a vast majority of the minutes that are left over behind KG and Perk. There are 96 potential minutes at the 4 and 5 spot. Each will average 32. Sheed will take 25+ more if not 30. That leaves 2-7 minutes max. Even if you drop KG and Perk down to 30 that only leaves 6-11. Unless Shelden never plays that doesn't leave enough time for BBD.
Even last year Perk did not average over 30 minutes a game. In the playoffs he averaged 36 but that was when he was our only shot blocker. Doc often was forced to leave him in even when completely gassed.

My guess is Perk is around 26-28 if KG/Sheed are healthy.

Yeah, I think Perk, KG, and Wallace will all play close to 28 minutes per game, leaving 12 minutes for Baby.  If Doc has that much talent in the frontcourt, he will take advantage of it, in order to keep guys fresh.

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2009, 07:36:53 PM »

Offline Jon

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Why would BBD sign a 4 year deal for small money to come in here and ride the pine? Now that Shelden Williams is signed he will have to split minutes with yet another big as I doubt they brought him in to get no minutes at all. Scal also could take some of those minutes if he starts playing like he did prior to that head injury. There might be quite a few DNP's in sight for him.

If he doesn't get a much better offer look for BBD to sign the one year offer and become un-restricted next season where he has a better chance of getting paid. He will have one more year of proving he can play, and one more year of hopefully keeping the weight off.

If Davis is here, he will be well ahead of Williams in the rotation.  Given the age and injury history of the three guys ahead of him, Davis would likely be playing 10-15 minutes per game if everyone is healthy, and will likely average between 15-25 minutes per game for the season, due to the fact that he will inevitably fill in for stretches when there are injuries.  

And I think he may actually help his value by playing shorter minutes this year.  Last year, he struggled keeping up the defensive intensity he had early in the season when he started playing 30 minutes a game.  But if he is playing 15 minutes, he can go really hard for pretty much that entire time, and show that last year was not a fluke.

I don't think there are 15 minutes out there for him. Sheed is going to play a vast majority of the minutes that are left over behind KG and Perk. There are 96 potential minutes at the 4 and 5 spot. Each will average 32. Sheed will take 25+ more if not 30. That leaves 2-7 minutes max. Even if you drop KG and Perk down to 30 that only leaves 6-11. Unless Shelden never plays that doesn't leave enough time for BBD.
Even last year Perk did not average over 30 minutes a game. In the playoffs he averaged 36 but that was when he was our only shot blocker. Doc often was forced to leave him in even when completely gassed.

My guess is Perk is around 26-28 if KG/Sheed are healthy.

Yeah, I think Perk, KG, and Wallace will all play close to 28 minutes per game, leaving 12 minutes for Baby.  If Doc has that much talent in the frontcourt, he will take advantage of it, in order to keep guys fresh.

28 mpg?  I really don't see that happening unless we blow a ton of teams out (and by a ton, I mean like winning 50+ games in blowout form). 

Perk is coming into his own more, and I don't see why he's going to want to continue to play less-than-starter minutes.  Similarly, KG and Wallace are both asked to sacrifice a lot from a statistical standpoint: asking them to sacrifice minutes for the likes of Big Baby isn't going to go over well. 

I really see him playing less than 10 mpg and in games that are close, probably less than 5.  Come playoff time, I don't see him sniffing the court unless there's early foul trouble. 

That's a good thing for the C's to have someone of his quality on the bench; however, if I was Baby's agent, I'd want him somewhere else.  He's certainly not going to get the PT to improve his contract situation here anytime soon. 

But I also don't blame teams for not giving him big money.  He's clearly not good enough to be a starter on a contender.  So if a team is not a contender, why do they want to give big money to a guy who isn't going to make them a contender this year and won't start for them in a couple years if they become a contender?  And let's also face the fact that he's undersized even for the 4, has weight issues, and even last year, was usually the beneficiary of teams focusing most of their attention on Pierce, Allen, and Rondo. 

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2009, 07:44:49 PM »

Offline Who

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I expect the minutes to be fairly similar to last season:

KG -- 32 minutes
Perk -- 30 minutes
First Big -- 20 minutes
Second Big -- 15 minutes

Maybe Sheed gets 3-5 more minutes than Glen Davis used to, with Davis getting a few less than Powe, but I think it'll be fairly comparable. At least during the regular season.

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2009, 07:45:36 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Why would BBD sign a 4 year deal for small money to come in here and ride the pine? Now that Shelden Williams is signed he will have to split minutes with yet another big as I doubt they brought him in to get no minutes at all. Scal also could take some of those minutes if he starts playing like he did prior to that head injury. There might be quite a few DNP's in sight for him.

If he doesn't get a much better offer look for BBD to sign the one year offer and become un-restricted next season where he has a better chance of getting paid. He will have one more year of proving he can play, and one more year of hopefully keeping the weight off.

If Davis is here, he will be well ahead of Williams in the rotation.  Given the age and injury history of the three guys ahead of him, Davis would likely be playing 10-15 minutes per game if everyone is healthy, and will likely average between 15-25 minutes per game for the season, due to the fact that he will inevitably fill in for stretches when there are injuries.  

And I think he may actually help his value by playing shorter minutes this year.  Last year, he struggled keeping up the defensive intensity he had early in the season when he started playing 30 minutes a game.  But if he is playing 15 minutes, he can go really hard for pretty much that entire time, and show that last year was not a fluke.

I don't think there are 15 minutes out there for him. Sheed is going to play a vast majority of the minutes that are left over behind KG and Perk. There are 96 potential minutes at the 4 and 5 spot. Each will average 32. Sheed will take 25+ more if not 30. That leaves 2-7 minutes max. Even if you drop KG and Perk down to 30 that only leaves 6-11. Unless Shelden never plays that doesn't leave enough time for BBD.
Even last year Perk did not average over 30 minutes a game. In the playoffs he averaged 36 but that was when he was our only shot blocker. Doc often was forced to leave him in even when completely gassed.

My guess is Perk is around 26-28 if KG/Sheed are healthy.

Yeah, I think Perk, KG, and Wallace will all play close to 28 minutes per game, leaving 12 minutes for Baby.  If Doc has that much talent in the frontcourt, he will take advantage of it, in order to keep guys fresh.

28 mpg?  I really don't see that happening unless we blow a ton of teams out (and by a ton, I mean like winning 50+ games in blowout form). 

Perk is coming into his own more, and I don't see why he's going to want to continue to play less-than-starter minutes.  Similarly, KG and Wallace are both asked to sacrifice a lot from a statistical standpoint: asking them to sacrifice minutes for the likes of Big Baby isn't going to go over well. 

I really see him playing less than 10 mpg and in games that are close, probably less than 5.  Come playoff time, I don't see him sniffing the court unless there's early foul trouble. 

That's a good thing for the C's to have someone of his quality on the bench; however, if I was Baby's agent, I'd want him somewhere else.  He's certainly not going to get the PT to improve his contract situation here anytime soon. 

But I also don't blame teams for not giving him big money.  He's clearly not good enough to be a starter on a contender.  So if a team is not a contender, why do they want to give big money to a guy who isn't going to make them a contender this year and won't start for them in a couple years if they become a contender?  And let's also face the fact that he's undersized even for the 4, has weight issues, and even last year, was usually the beneficiary of teams focusing most of their attention on Pierce, Allen, and Rondo. 

Nice summary.

Unfortunately for Baby, the market has spoken and the market's not enamored with a skillset replete with limitations. He's a tweener with weight problems, and nobody's going to pay starter money in this economy for that.

He'd be well served to take 10 for 4, IMHO, because he might not get there next year with limited bench minutes from a qualifying offer.
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Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2009, 08:39:45 PM »

Offline Jon

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I expect the minutes to be fairly similar to last season:

KG -- 32 minutes
Perk -- 30 minutes
First Big -- 20 minutes
Second Big -- 15 minutes

Maybe Sheed gets 3-5 more minutes than Glen Davis used to, with Davis getting a few less than Powe, but I think it'll be fairly comparable. At least during the regular season.

So Sheed is going to come in here, give up starting, only play 20 mpg. and still be a good soldier? 

I don't see that happening.

He's going to play at least close to 30, which means Baby is going to play about 5 mpg.   

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2009, 08:49:57 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I expect the minutes to be fairly similar to last season:

KG -- 32 minutes
Perk -- 30 minutes
First Big -- 20 minutes
Second Big -- 15 minutes

Maybe Sheed gets 3-5 more minutes than Glen Davis used to, with Davis getting a few less than Powe, but I think it'll be fairly comparable. At least during the regular season.

So Sheed is going to come in here, give up starting, only play 20 mpg. and still be a good soldier? 

I don't see that happening.

He's going to play at least close to 30, which means Baby is going to play about 5 mpg.   
I don't think Sheed cares about minutes that much at this point in his career. If KG will cut his minutes by 6 per game with the C's I imagine that Doc will follow a similar strategy for Sheed.

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2009, 09:27:27 PM »

Offline jv2764

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4 for 10M is not getting it done.  Hell isnt Tony Allen getting 2.5M a year?

He is worth at least Eddie House Money which is 3 M.  I say offer him 6.5M for 2 years or 10M for 3 years.

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2009, 09:28:13 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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i say 4 for 12 is worth his services

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2009, 09:49:29 PM »

Offline ben

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i say 4 for 12 is worth his services

I say the qualifying offer is worth his services.

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2009, 09:52:02 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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i say 4 for 12 is worth his services
Scal money then? Yeah probably about right.

I really wouldn't want his contract to go that many years. I like having maximum flexibility beyond Rondo/Perk after the Big 3's original deals are done.

Re: Hoopsworld rumor: Davis has 4 year offer from C's
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2009, 09:01:23 AM »

Offline Jon

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Well, I wouldn't say anything "isn't getting it done" in this economy.  If no one offers better than 4 years, 10 million, that may well get it done. 

As for the minutes, I suppose Wallace and KG may be amenable to giving up minutes, but I wouldn't count on it.  Furthermore, I'd question if it's a good idea.  If KG really averaged 28 mpg, that'd likely include games that were blow outs where he played even less.  Is that really a good idea?  I'm all about playing the starters 35 mpg or less during the regular season, but I worry if we get these numbers too low they might not be prepared for the big minutes and strain of the playoffs. 

It also begs the question whether playing Perk/KG/Wallace fewer than 32 mpg really helps them at all.  As some have pointed out, excess minutes and injuries don't have a conclusive connection.  Is playing 28 mpg instead of 32 mpg really going to help KG?  Because if not, I'd also ask the question whether it's worth EVER playing Baby (other than foul trouble and blow outs) if the C's have 3 guys who are clearly better than him and those 3 guys can play 32 mpg without damaging their health. 

I don't hate Baby.  I'd love to have him for depth.  But this also isn't Little League: everyone doesn't have to play.