Author Topic: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option  (Read 8724 times)

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Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2019, 05:16:11 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Wonder if anyone here would want us to offer him a minimum contract

I expect he’ll sign in Europe.

But for the minimum, sure. He’d give us at least what Jabari Bird has this season.
That says a lot. LOL

But we’re not comparing him to bird. We’re comparing him to the available field.

With the way our offense is flowing, I’d look at the stats sheet and get the best 3 pt shooter available.
Ah yes because Boston needs more 3 point shooters.

I have a lot of respect for your knowledge of basketball history and desire for hard-nosed basketball, but I think that you need to come to terms that in today's NBA, if you can't shoot a 3, you have to be able to do something amazing to see playing time. With elite 3 pt percentages reaching the mid 40s and a few guys almost touching 50%, the NBA will eventually have to do something about it. 

Our entire offense revolves around running a play and moving the ball around until we find an easy 2 or a wide open 3. I'd rather find a proven guy that shoots 40%+ from 3 that we can stick in the corner on our 2nd unit than waste a roster spot on a project on a win now championship team.
my point was, Boston has enough 3 point shooters, it is missing other aspects of the game, such as shot blocking, rebounding, and foul shot generation.

I still get the feeling that your comments are more frustration with our offensive strategy rather than players. For example, we have Robert Williams, who does all of what you just cited well, and yet he's barely getting minutes. The simple truth is he doesn't fit into this team's play-style yet. A 3 point shooter would, because that's our offensive strategy: shoot a bunch of 3s.. we're #3 in 3pt attempted this season.

Robert Williams can block shots and get rebounds, but the reason he doesn't play is because despite his shot blocking he is actually a bad defensive player currently.  It has nothing to do with his offensive abilities (or lack there of).  When RWIII learns to stop chasing blocks, and learns better defensive positioning while also staying within the scheme, he'll see his minutes go up.

I rarely ever agree with Moranis on much of anything, but this seems to be one of the few times.  Simply adding more three point shooters to our roster does nothing for us, it's not an area of the game the team needs to improve upon.

I'm pretty sure the main reasons that Williams is not playing are

a) He's been hurt.

b) He's at best the #3 big man in a rotation that plays only 2 big men.   When everyone is healthy Brad is typically playing Al ~30 minutes and Aron ~17 minutes and almost never both at the same time.  In other words, Brad is using one big man on the floor for pretty much the entire game and all those minutes are being consumed by Al & Aron.  Williams is in the same boat as Theis & Yabusele with getting whatever scrap random minutes are left over or open up due to blowouts or due to injury to Al or Aron.
Williams isn't playing because, for a while he was injured, but when he and every other big is healthy he is the 14th player on a team that can only suit 13 players.

Why is he 14th on a 14 man team(not counting Bird as he has been unavailable all year)? Because of what KG Knee's said. His defense is poor even though he is a supreme shot blocker. He also has little offensive skills. Even his screens on offense are weak as he tries to roll to the basket way too early.

Love Williams. Think he has great potential. But right now Horford, Morris, Baynes, Theis and Yabusele are all much better overall players and so they aren't made inactive when healthy(except rest days) and they get playing time ahead of Williams.

I personally agree with those saying he's still incredibly raw and IF the minutes were there to play a 3rd or 4th big, I would expect Theis and/or Yabusele to get them before Williams.   But those minutes aren't really there.

Over the last 4 games, since Baynes came back,  Theis has played a total of less than 8 minutes.   Go back over the schedule.  In games where both Al and Aron are both healthy, Theis & Yabusele get almost no minutes.

Whether he's the 14th player by talent is sort of irrelevant.  He and Wanamaker play totally different positions.  Wanamaker is probably closer to getting minutes at PG (because he's #4 in a guard rotation that plays a lot more minutes) and thus would be of more immediate need should injury occur.   So it makes sense to dress him over Williams.
Not sure what your point is. You agree he is 14th in talent. You agree the other players I listed are better than Williams and are getting the minutes, regardless of how many minutes as most Williams fans would be absolutely thrilled with Williams getting even 4-8 minutes a game.

So what are you exactly responding too?

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2019, 05:47:17 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Wonder if anyone here would want us to offer him a minimum contract

Eddie20

Dragon had bust written from day 1

He might be a bust vs. where he was drafted, but that is irrelevant now. 

If I told you there was a player who is 21 years-old, 7'1" and played all 82 games last year and shot 37% from 3 and 77% from the line:  would you bite on that for a minimum contract and roster spot?  I sure would.

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2019, 05:47:55 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Bender is softer than Olynyk ...

This is why he stinks

Nikoloz Tskitishvili part 2

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2019, 06:02:43 PM »

Offline liam

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Wonder if anyone here would want us to offer him a minimum contract

Eddie20

Dragon had bust written from day 1

He might be a bust vs. where he was drafted, but that is irrelevant now. 

If I told you there was a player who is 21 years-old, 7'1" and played all 82 games last year and shot 37% from 3 and 77% from the line:  would you bite on that for a minimum contract and roster spot?  I sure would.

Yes, I would...

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2019, 07:10:07 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Remember back in 2016 when we could have dealt #3 for a package of Noel/Okafor + 2 mid-first rounders from the Sixers, or #3 + Smart + Crowder + another Nets Pick FOR Butler... or taken Bender at #3? When you look at all that, I'm honestly pleased we took Brown at 3. Even Lakers fans seem to be down on Ingram (#2 pick) just like some folks here are down on Brown. Simmons was the clear #1 but he also looks flawed frankly without a jump shot.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2019, 07:14:17 PM »

Online hpantazo

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Remember back in 2016 when we could have dealt #3 for a package of Noel/Okafor + 2 mid-first rounders from the Sixers, or #3 + Smart + Crowder + another Nets Pick FOR Butler... or taken Bender at #3? When you look at all that, I'm honestly pleased we took Brown at 3. Even Lakers fans seem to be down on Ingram (#2 pick) just like some folks here are down on Brown. Simmons was the clear #1 but he also looks flawed frankly without a jump shot.

Yeah, I mean, everyone in that draft is flawed, even Simmons, but we did amazingly well with Jaylen. Giving up Smart in any of those deals would have been a disaster. I fully trust Ainge with his future moves, even if they don't seem good to me at first.

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2019, 08:09:02 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Wonder if anyone here would want us to offer him a minimum contract

Eddie20

Dragon had bust written from day 1

He might be a bust vs. where he was drafted, but that is irrelevant now. 

If I told you there was a player who is 21 years-old, 7'1" and played all 82 games last year and shot 37% from 3 and 77% from the line:  would you bite on that for a minimum contract and roster spot?  I sure would.

Yes, I would...

No brainer, really. I wonder if Bender is a product of the organization. If you think about it, the Suns haven't really developed anyone too well in recent years. Even Booker, who was always a good scorer, is still a bad defender. Plus, I wonder if his improvement offensively is more a result of maturity/natural progression vs anything the Suns really did. Would love to see Bender on a good organization to rule that out. Over the last 2 games, both starts, he's averaged 12.5 PPG, 10 RPG, and 2.0 RPG in 29.5 MPG.

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2019, 09:36:07 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If he is available to bring in this off season on the cheap to replace Theis, I am good with that. Move Williams into Theis' spot and Bender into Williams' spot.

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2019, 11:06:17 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Wonder if anyone here would want us to offer him a minimum contract

Eddie20

Dragon had bust written from day 1

Bust or not he is worth a shot. Draft position has no relevance now since it would just be for minimum and we don't have to spend an asset for him. Only reason not to is because of roster slots, we might need it if a good buy out vet comes along. But other than there's no risk, afterall we carried dead weights like James Young, Jordan Mickey, Nader for a long time.

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2019, 02:29:56 AM »

Offline ederson

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Wonder if anyone here would want us to offer him a minimum contract

Eddie20

Dragon had bust written from day 1

He might be a bust vs. where he was drafted, but that is irrelevant now. 

If I told you there was a player who is 21 years-old, 7'1" and played all 82 games last year and shot 37% from 3 and 77% from the line:  would you bite on that for a minimum contract and roster spot?  I sure would.

The reason he is available is not important?his old team had the chance to keep a 21yo 7footer making 37% of his 3p  but didn't.

And I don't see how the Celtics can develop another project. The team cannot find mins for RW who plays in a more needed potition and will give playtime to Bender in sf/pf?

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2019, 02:49:10 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Wonder if anyone here would want us to offer him a minimum contract

Eddie20

Dragon had bust written from day 1

He might be a bust vs. where he was drafted, but that is irrelevant now. 

If I told you there was a player who is 21 years-old, 7'1" and played all 82 games last year and shot 37% from 3 and 77% from the line:  would you bite on that for a minimum contract and roster spot?  I sure would.

The reason he is available is not important?his old team had the chance to keep a 21yo 7footer making 37% of his 3p  but didn't.

And I don't see how the Celtics can develop another project. The team cannot find mins for RW who plays in a more needed potition and will give playtime to Bender in sf/pf?

This happens all the time. That's why you take a flier, because you feel he will be different under your team. There's also the difference in salaries between his 4th year option and playing for the Celtics for the minimum. I dont think the Celtics will take him, but if they did, I don't have a problem with it. Its risk free.

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2019, 03:11:57 AM »

Offline ederson

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As far as money goes I don't have a problem either. But I fail to see how he gets play time with Tatum, JB, Hayward. Theis ahead of him and I don't feel comfortable investing mins we don't have to such a long shot.

He doesn't Block, he can't pass, he doesn't rebound much. He had one 36% 3p season. Even with macabi didn't shoot better. This season his 3p% is 12...

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2019, 06:08:26 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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This is a prime example of guys not wanting their draft binkie to fail, which happens often here. 

Bottom line, will he make us better, no!  We already have a far better long term prospect in Timelord, who has way more potential.

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2019, 06:19:48 AM »

Offline ederson

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This is a prime example of guys not wanting their draft binkie to fail, which happens often here. 

Bottom line, will he make us better, no!  We already have a far better long term prospect in Timelord, who has way more potential.

and plays in a position we'd welcome any help

Re: Suns decline Dragan Bender’s 4th-year option
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2019, 07:16:05 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Timelord also has more cost control built in, with that rookie salary and less years than Dragan.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 08:32:50 AM by Celtics4ever »