Author Topic: Blown leads  (Read 6591 times)

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Blown leads
« on: March 26, 2024, 09:32:52 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Obviously, choking away big leads is a concern of fans right now.  We've seen very, very bad losses against the Cavaliers and Hawks, and an almost-blown lead against the Bucks recently.  Interestingly, we've given up the biggest comeback both this year (30 points) and last (28 points).

So, is this something that just happens to all teams?  Or, is it something unique to Boston?  Here's one data point:

https://champsorchumps.us/records/most-nba-blown-leads-in-2024

Overall, we've blown eight leads of 10+ points, which frankly doesn't seem that bad.  It means that of our 15 losses, we were up fairly big in over half of them. 

But, how do we compare to our rivals?  Looking at the top-12 teams by record, here's where they stand in terms of blown 10 point leads (resulting in losses) this season:

New Orleans - 12
Sacramento - 11
Boston - 8
Minnesota - 8
Cleveland - 7
Dallas - 7
LA Clippers - 6
Orlando - 6
Denver - 5
OKC - 5
Milwaukee - 4
New York - 3

Are there any conclusions to be drawn?


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Re: Blown leads
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2024, 09:35:44 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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This has been going on since Brad Stevens was the coach. It happened with Ime and now it is happening with Joe.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2024, 09:37:04 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Obviously, choking away big leads is a concern of fans right now.  We've seen very, very bad losses against the Cavaliers and Hawks, and an almost-blown lead against the Bucks recently.  Interestingly, we've given up the biggest comeback both this year (30 points) and last (28 points).

So, is this something that just happens to all teams?  Or, is it something unique to Boston?  Here's one data point:

https://champsorchumps.us/records/most-nba-blown-leads-in-2024

Overall, we've blown eight leads of 10+ points, which frankly doesn't seem that bad.  It means that of our 15 losses, we were up fairly big in over half of them. 

But, how do we compare to our rivals?  Looking at the top-12 teams by record, here's where they stand in terms of blown 10 point leads (resulting in losses) this season:

New Orleans - 12
Sacramento - 11
Boston - 8
Minnesota - 8
Cleveland - 7
Dallas - 7
LA Clippers - 6
Orlando - 6
Denver - 5
OKC - 5
Milwaukee - 4
New York - 3

Are there any conclusions to be drawn?

One thing that would be interesting is percentage of blown 10-point leads.  I would guess we’ve had more opportunities to blow them in part because we’ve been up by at least 10 in all but a few games.

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2024, 09:41:20 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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This has been going on since Brad Stevens was the coach. It happened with Ime and now it is happening with Joe.

It was happening with the kg Celtics at the end of that run too ironically. Something Phil Jackson even told his team in a huddle in the 2010 finals.

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2024, 09:45:38 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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Take away those blow 8 games and the Celtics have just 7 loses on the season.

Celtics rarely get blown out. Cs do play down to teams and allow them to have life. Last night was not good.

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2024, 10:10:18 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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This has been going on since Brad Stevens was the coach. It happened with Ime and now it is happening with Joe.

It was happening with the kg Celtics at the end of that run too ironically. Something Phil Jackson even told his team in a huddle in the 2010 finals.

It happens all the time in basketball: any team that mounts a 10-point comeback is doing it at the expense of a team that has blown a 10-point lead.

In my opinion, then, it's probably safe to say the existence of a 10-point swing doesn't say very much on its own. It probably does provide a good starting point for looking at any Boston-centric problems, though. Are there any commonalities in those losses? Going cold from deep? no assists in the final quarter? that sort of thing.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2024, 10:51:39 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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The blown lead doesn't bother me, it's the habit of standing around, draining clock, and launching bad shot that disturbs me.
If these guys can't run an offense at the end, they shouldn't be out there.
Still don't believe in Joe.

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2024, 11:04:28 AM »

Offline Silas

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Saw this on Reddit:  After the Nuggets effectively clinched the 1 seed last year, they went 8-10 with a -1.4 NETRTG.  Let's relax a bit and hope that the team is healthy going into the playoffs.
I've lived through some terrible things in my life, some of which actually happened.   -  Mark Twain

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2024, 11:26:09 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Obviously, choking away big leads is a concern of fans right now.  We've seen very, very bad losses against the Cavaliers and Hawks, and an almost-blown lead against the Bucks recently.  Interestingly, we've given up the biggest comeback both this year (30 points) and last (28 points).

So, is this something that just happens to all teams?  Or, is it something unique to Boston?  Here's one data point:

https://champsorchumps.us/records/most-nba-blown-leads-in-2024

Overall, we've blown eight leads of 10+ points, which frankly doesn't seem that bad.  It means that of our 15 losses, we were up fairly big in over half of them. 

But, how do we compare to our rivals?  Looking at the top-12 teams by record, here's where they stand in terms of blown 10 point leads (resulting in losses) this season:

New Orleans - 12
Sacramento - 11
Boston - 8
Minnesota - 8
Cleveland - 7
Dallas - 7
LA Clippers - 6
Orlando - 6
Denver - 5
OKC - 5
Milwaukee - 4
New York - 3

Are there any conclusions to be drawn?

One thing that would be interesting is percentage of blown 10-point leads.  I would guess we’ve had more opportunities to blow them in part because we’ve been up by at least 10 in all but a few games.

This nugget was in a recent ESPN piece republished today:

Quote
The frequency of 10-point and 15-point comebacks has increased as well. In 1997-98, teams that fell behind by double digits had an .181 winning percentage. That climbed to .250 a season ago and is at .229 this season, meaning nearly one in every four games in which a team takes a double-digit lead ends with the other team winning.

The inverse means that teams with 10-point leads have a .771 winning percentage in such games this year.  I’ve got to imagine the Celtics are close to that, if not above it.  My guess is, at least this year, we’ve blown a lot of 10-point leads because we’ve gotten a lot of 10-point leads, and the league trends make comebacks, and thus blown leads, more likely.

EDIT:  Did the research — the Celtics are 51-8 in games in which they’ve had a 10-point lead at some point.  That’s an .864 winning percentage in such games, which is actually very, very good.  No other team is likely close to our number of games with 10-point leads, so it stinks when we lose them, and this year it’s more than half of our losses, but it really does seem that we’ve lost as many as we’ve had because we’ve just had more big leads to begin with.  New Orleans, first on the list of big leads blown, is second to the Celtics in number of 10-point wins (30 to our 36), giving another datapoint to having a lot of large leads means you’ll blow more.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 11:43:26 AM by Celtics2021 »

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2024, 11:30:19 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Saw this on Reddit:  After the Nuggets effectively clinched the 1 seed last year, they went 8-10 with a -1.4 NETRTG.  Let's relax a bit and hope that the team is healthy going into the playoffs.

I see your point in bringing this up and it’s plenty valid but unless Tatum takes a massive leap immediately we simply don’t have a player of jokics caliber.

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2024, 11:33:31 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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We've probably blown more big leads than other teams have even gotten them.  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2024, 11:48:17 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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Saw this on Reddit:  After the Nuggets effectively clinched the 1 seed last year, they went 8-10 with a -1.4 NETRTG.  Let's relax a bit and hope that the team is healthy going into the playoffs.

I see your point in bringing this up and it’s plenty valid but unless Tatum takes a massive leap immediately we simply don’t have a player of jokics caliber.

Wouldn't expect any other kind of response from you. Celtics are just a bunch of g leaguers that simply have no chance in the playoffs.

I know you are counting the days down to tell everyone how right you were all season.

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2024, 12:09:41 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Enough with the personal barbs.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2024, 01:18:33 PM »

Offline libermaniac

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We blow more leads because we shoot the most 3s. 1-18 from 3 yesterday after starting 10-20. If they shoot a paltry 5-18 we aren’t having this conversation.

My guess is that from an expected points per possession perspective, shooting lots of good 3s maximizes that. But there is probably more variance in the outcome - so you are going to have stinkers.

I think this is why most Cs fans criticize Joe when we blow leads because when you are up big you should change your approach to minimize that variance - eg go away from so many 3s. Drive and get to the line. But they don’t seem to change their system. 

Re: Blown leads
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2024, 01:31:33 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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To blow a 10+ point lead, you have to be up by 10+ points. And my guess is the C's have had more 10+ point leads than anybody. This is the NBA, where three point shooting exists. You will occasionally blow a 10+ point lead. It not some referendum on a team.

Granted a 30 point blown lead is bad, but when you get out shot by 20% from three you will almost always lose.