CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: EJPLAYA on November 09, 2008, 08:48:48 PM
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What gives Paul?! Yet another night of terrible shooting, horrible defense, and a very nonchalant attitude out there. Once again your man was the only guy on the floor who really played well. Prince killed you tonight just like Jefferson did in the last one. I wasn't concerned with the Milwaukee game because quite honestly we all knew that was a win without much effort. This however was the Pistons on their home floor. It was a chance to show them who was still in control. I think we did that, however it was more because of TA than you. I didn't see any emotion. Any effort. I just saw a player who didn't seem that interested in being out there. Thankfully TA was as was the rest of the team. I know PP will turn this around, however I don't like the effort at all. I thought when he came back in the shape he did he was going to be mentally zoned in and ready to play. He isn't there yet. Let's get back into it! Once you get into a habit of playing like that it can become hard to break out of.
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The only problem I had with Paul was that he got into foul trouble...and at least a couple of the calls were questionable. Its tough for him to do much when he is sitting on the bench.
I don't know what you are talking about horrible defense and nonchalant attitude though. I didn't see that at all.
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What gives Paul?! Yet another night of terrible shooting, horrible defense, and a very nonchalant attitude out there. Once again your man was the only guy on the floor who really played well. Prince killed you tonight just like Jefferson did in the last one. I wasn't concerned with the Milwaukee game because quite honestly we all knew that was a win without much effort. This however was the Pistons on their home floor. It was a chance to show them who was still in control. I think we did that, however it was more because of TA than you. I didn't see any emotion. Any effort. I just saw a player who didn't seem that interested in being out there. Thankfully TA was as was the rest of the team. I know PP will turn this around, however I don't like the effort at all. I thought when he came back in the shape he did he was going to be mentally zoned in and ready to play. He isn't there yet. Let's get back into it! Once you get into a habit of playing like that it can become hard to break out of.
Fear not, good Celtics fan.
I get your observation, but keep in mind that these are veteran players, these big 3. Pearce is really like the coach on the court and he really gets tempo. When he needs to turn it on, he turns it on. He could be doing this the whole game, but really, this is the time of year to trust your team-mates and give them their chances to dominate and do well (this is better than what Kobe does, btw.)
Trust your team-mates and let them develop, Pierce is the best when it comes to being a garbage man and taking over when nothing is going right.
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I'll admit that PP's defensive effort could have been a bit better the last two games, but I think overall he's doing what Tim Duncan used to do during the early part of the season, namely, refraining from taking over games, playing team ball almost to a fault, letting others have a chance to assert themselves, etc. It's a bit maddening, but it's also an effective strategy. When Paul needs to, and as the season progresses, he will will this team to wins. Why not let Tony and Ray win games for us now, and give them a confidence boost for the rest of the season?
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What gives Paul?! Yet another night of terrible shooting, horrible defense, and a very nonchalant attitude out there. Once again your man was the only guy on the floor who really played well. Prince killed you tonight just like Jefferson did in the last one. I wasn't concerned with the Milwaukee game because quite honestly we all knew that was a win without much effort. This however was the Pistons on their home floor. It was a chance to show them who was still in control. I think we did that, however it was more because of TA than you. I didn't see any emotion. Any effort. I just saw a player who didn't seem that interested in being out there. Thankfully TA was as was the rest of the team. I know PP will turn this around, however I don't like the effort at all. I thought when he came back in the shape he did he was going to be mentally zoned in and ready to play. He isn't there yet. Let's get back into it! Once you get into a habit of playing like that it can become hard to break out of.
Fear not, good Celtics fan.
I get your observation, but keep in mind that these are veteran players, these big 3. Pearce is really like the coach on the court and he really gets tempo. When he needs to turn it on, he turns it on. He could be doing this the whole game, but really, this is the time of year to trust your team-mates and give them their chances to dominate and do well (this is better than what Kobe does, btw.)
Trust your team-mates and let them develop, Pierce is the best when it comes to being a garbage man and taking over when nothing is going right.
I realize that this is likely what he was doing, however I don't like it at all because he is letting his player set the tone vs us setting it. Many of those buckets that Prince hit he was out there. He didn't really get any phantom fouls, rather he just didn't seem that interested in playing great defense. I don't think that it is that easy to just "turn it on". That's why he is shooting 38.5 percent from the floor and 67.6% from the free throw line. That shows lack of effort to me. I would like to see him come out in the first 8-10 minutes and put it to his opponent on both ends. This shows the other guys what is expected and puts them in the drivers seat from the beginning. If you are one of the big three then you better act like it. So far he hasn't and we are 7 games in. I'm okay if he is struggling, however not because of lack of effort.
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If the Celtics are winning with him playing like this, they will be even better when he gets out of his offensive slump.
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If the Celtics are winning with him playing like this, they will be even better when he gets out of his offensive slump.
Same goes for KG. The team is 6-1 despite overall poor play on the early season by their two best players. After getting past the initial worry about if they'll right the ship on offense, which they will, you have to be thrilled with the way they are still defending like mad men.
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What gives Paul?! Yet another night of terrible shooting, horrible defense, and a very nonchalant attitude out there. Once again your man was the only guy on the floor who really played well. Prince killed you tonight just like Jefferson did in the last one. I wasn't concerned with the Milwaukee game because quite honestly we all knew that was a win without much effort. This however was the Pistons on their home floor. It was a chance to show them who was still in control. I think we did that, however it was more because of TA than you. I didn't see any emotion. Any effort. I just saw a player who didn't seem that interested in being out there. Thankfully TA was as was the rest of the team. I know PP will turn this around, however I don't like the effort at all. I thought when he came back in the shape he did he was going to be mentally zoned in and ready to play. He isn't there yet. Let's get back into it! Once you get into a habit of playing like that it can become hard to break out of.
I agree with you all the way here.I feel the same about his lack of interest or look like it anyway.He was not into it tonight nor the other night.Jefferson was just spotting up from side to side hitting the three in the first half.We were lucky he went cold in the second half or it might have been a different outcome.Tonight he carried the same nonaggressive attitude into Detroit.Maybe there is something personal going on in his life bothering him or maybe as some have stated its early in the season.
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you have to be thrilled with the way they are still defending like mad men.
Yep, absolutely. One of the question I had about this team is whether they'd be able to match last years ridiculously high level of defensive intensity. They've answered it pretty darn well so far.
No worries about the Captain.
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It's a bit weird, Pierce hasn't been shooting well, but he's been playing well.
Half the games I watch I don't realize how badly he's shooting until I see the box score. Aside from the last two games he's beem doing everything else extremely well it seems. The defense, passing, and rebounding have been great, but the shots just aren't falling.
The only time Pierce's man really scores is when he is helping with the team defense. The only problem with Pierce so far is his shooting, but that seems to be a case with each of the Big 3. All of them are shooting below the type of percentages expected of them. I'm not to worried right now, I feel the offense will come, but the defense will do the job while we wait.
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The only problem I had with Paul was that he got into foul trouble...and at least a couple of the calls were questionable. Its tough for him to do much when he is sitting on the bench.
I don't know what you are talking about horrible defense and nonchalant attitude though. I didn't see that at all.
yea,...not sure what are seeing here?
shooting im right with you on, he's been lights out at defense, rebounding, and passing on the offensive end (minus the detroit game, where foul trouble kept him out of the game).
He's shooting like poo, but the other aspects of his game have been excellent.
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What gives Paul?! Yet another night of terrible shooting, horrible defense, and a very nonchalant attitude out there. Once again your man was the only guy on the floor who really played well. Prince killed you tonight just like Jefferson did in the last one. I wasn't concerned with the Milwaukee game because quite honestly we all knew that was a win without much effort. This however was the Pistons on their home floor. It was a chance to show them who was still in control. I think we did that, however it was more because of TA than you. I didn't see any emotion. Any effort. I just saw a player who didn't seem that interested in being out there. Thankfully TA was as was the rest of the team. I know PP will turn this around, however I don't like the effort at all. I thought when he came back in the shape he did he was going to be mentally zoned in and ready to play. He isn't there yet. Let's get back into it! Once you get into a habit of playing like that it can become hard to break out of.
Yeah either all of that or he got into foul trouble and didn't want to force things with so many great players like BBD to fill the void of the C's leader. 5 years ago Paul would have done what you wanted him to do and force things when it wasn't his night. Not anymore get used to these type of games with great players like BBD and the crew around.
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As long as we're winning, I wouldn't worry too much with the Truth's shooting woes. If this were a few years ago, I would be very concerned because a poor Pierce game then usually translated to a loss for the C's.
As long as Pierce keeps up his defensive intensity along with KG's level or just close to it, we'll be fine. Besides, it's nice to see other players pick up the slack when the Big 3 aren't up to their offensive groove. Right Tony Allen? ;)
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I'm not really concerned with his shooting woes. He'll come out of that. He is a great scorer. I just don't think that you can say he is doing a great job defensively because he is getting torched out there. He is rebounding fine. He even seems to be passing fine. He just isn't intense on the defensive end and that's what makes this team great. KG brings the defensive intensity no matter what. If his shot is falling then it's a bonus. I've watched every game PP has played for years, and this isn't the same intense PP we saw last year.
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It's a total team effort with these guys. IF we were losing I think we would be seeing a ton of articles and forum threads about how the Big 3 is washed up. None of them seem to be performing near the level they did in their prime... but if we keep finding ways to win games I guess it doesn't matter.
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I'm not really concerned with his shooting woes. He'll come out of that. He is a great scorer. I just don't think that you can say he is doing a great job defensively because he is getting torched out there. He is rebounding fine. He even seems to be passing fine. He just isn't intense on the defensive end and that's what makes this team great. KG brings the defensive intensity no matter what. If his shot is falling then it's a bonus. I've watched every game PP has played for years, and this isn't the same intense PP we saw last year.
come on, how is he getting tourched defensivly EJ, thats just not true.
He's played well against everyone except granger, who had just a heck of a game, no one was stopping him that night, and prince who he couldn't gaurd due to foul trouble, 2 of which were crap. You could give R.J and ok night for the bucks if you being generous, though he was under his season averages.
meanwhile, he shut down lebron, making him shoot a increidly ineffecnt prcentage for 22 points, killed deng, shut arrtest down, making him take long 3 pointers he clanged all night, played well against the green of the thunder too.
and, his rebound and assist numbers are very good.
Your going to have to bring me something better than " Trust me, i see it, he's not putting the effort in", because I've seen no lack of effort on defense or offense. I've seen a bad shooting slump, no doubt, but how can him playing well against 4 SF's, 2 of whom are among the top 10 in the game (one the clear #1) be offset by granger having a good night and prince dropping 20+ while he was on the bench?
even giving RJ a good game, so far:
played well:
Lebron
Arttest
Deng
Green
guys who had good nights:
Granger ( who tourched all comers, Ta included. sometimes you just have to tip your hat. That kids a stud, and he had a night to remeber.)
Prince (played hardley any minutes)
RJ: 20 points, still shot under his average percentage.
We're all entitled to our eyes on view of course, but i'm sorry, i just don't have any common ground on this part of you anylisis. and having watched almost every game of paul's career, i'm going to have to vehmently disagree with your take on him so far, effort wise.
His effort is thier on both ends, the results aren't on offense, but on defense, he's playing very well.
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I thought this thread was going to be about Jeff. What a let down.
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Let's see. Granger torched him, Prince torched him, Jefferson torched him. Deng and Artest play themselves out of games so I don't give Pierce much credit for that. A little, but not that his defense caused that problem. He had a solid game against Lebron, however Lebron was really getting by him at will and not getting his usual "Jordan" calls at the rim. That has more to do with it than his great D against him.
So even 3 out of 7 games he goes against lesser talent that an agressive style of play would have helped, he doesn't step up. When you are struggling on the offensive end you HAVE to turn it up on the defensive end. PP isn't doing that. You know that he isn't putting the same kind of effort out there that KG or Perk is. Last year he was. I am not trying to rip him to shreds. I know he isn't going to stay in this offensive funk. I think he is doing pretty well in the other couple columns, but you can't say the guy is giving it the same level of effort on the defensive end of the floor. You can see it in his face when he is getting lit up. He acts like it is no big deal. I know when I am playing pickup and a guy starts lighting me up I get real intense real fast. Last year so did PP. My only question on this thread is why?!
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Let's see. Granger torched him, Prince torched him, Jefferson torched him. Deng and Artest play themselves out of games so I don't give Pierce much credit for that. A little, but not that his defense caused that problem. He had a solid game against Lebron, however Lebron was really getting by him at will and not getting his usual "Jordan" calls at the rim. That has more to do with it than his great D against him.
So even 3 out of 7 games he goes against lesser talent that an agressive style of play would have helped, he doesn't step up. When you are struggling on the offensive end you HAVE to turn it up on the defensive end. PP isn't doing that. You know that he isn't putting the same kind of effort out there that KG or Perk is. Last year he was. I am not trying to rip him to shreds. I know he isn't going to stay in this offensive funk. I think he is doing pretty well in the other couple columns, but you can't say the guy is giving it the same level of effort on the defensive end of the floor. You can see it in his face when he is getting lit up. He acts like it is no big deal. I know when I am playing pickup and a guy starts lighting me up I get real intense real fast. Last year so did PP. My only question on this thread is why?!
1. granger tourched everyone.
2. He only played 25 minutes. Prince tourched TA. you can't play bad defense from the bench, and even sheed was laughing at the offical on the 2nd and third fouls that sent him to the bench for the first half. (the phantom one on him that should have been on perk ticked doc off so much he picked up a Tech, somethign doc RARLEY does.)
3. How did jefferson "tourch" him? he had 20 points on 48% shooting, both of which are below his season averages. apperntly your defintion of tourched is alot less than mine. it seems to be fairly low.
4. So, the great defensive preformances don't count. gotcha. convient for your argument, that.
your a tough man to please EJ, he does great against 3 of the top 10 SF's in the leauge, its because they played like crap. Granger goes out of his mind, hitting contested jumpers over everyone on the C's roster, and its due to pierce's defense, while prince tourches TA, and somehow thats paul's fault from the bench. :)
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The refs gave him trouble, I couldn't believe when the screen showed 3rd foul. Prince just made everything
One player you don't have to worry about is Paul Pierce
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The refs gave him trouble, I couldn't believe when the screen showed 3rd foul. Prince just made everything
One player you don't have to worry about is Paul Pierce
you know its bad when sheed looks at the offical after benifiting from the call and starts laughing. Thats got to be a bad feeling as a ref, when the player who got the call thinks you screwed up. :D
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Let's see. Granger torched him, Prince torched him, Jefferson torched him. Deng and Artest play themselves out of games so I don't give Pierce much credit for that. A little, but not that his defense caused that problem. He had a solid game against Lebron, however Lebron was really getting by him at will and not getting his usual "Jordan" calls at the rim. That has more to do with it than his great D against him.
So even 3 out of 7 games he goes against lesser talent that an agressive style of play would have helped, he doesn't step up. When you are struggling on the offensive end you HAVE to turn it up on the defensive end. PP isn't doing that. You know that he isn't putting the same kind of effort out there that KG or Perk is. Last year he was. I am not trying to rip him to shreds. I know he isn't going to stay in this offensive funk. I think he is doing pretty well in the other couple columns, but you can't say the guy is giving it the same level of effort on the defensive end of the floor. You can see it in his face when he is getting lit up. He acts like it is no big deal. I know when I am playing pickup and a guy starts lighting me up I get real intense real fast. Last year so did PP. My only question on this thread is why?!
1. granger tourched everyone.
2. He only played 25 minutes. Prince tourched TA. you can't play bad defense from the bench, and even sheed was laughing at the offical on the 2nd and third fouls that sent him to the bench for the first half. (the phantom one on him that should have been on perk ticked doc off so much he picked up a Tech, somethign doc RARLEY does.)
3. How did jefferson "tourch" him? he had 20 points on 48% shooting, both of which are below his season averages. apperntly your defintion of tourched is alot less than mine. it seems to be fairly low.
4. So, the great defensive preformances don't count. gotcha. convient for your argument, that.
your a tough man to please EJ, he does great against 3 of the top 10 SF's in the leauge, its because they played like crap. Granger goes out of his mind, hitting contested jumpers over everyone on the C's roster, and its due to pierce's defense, while prince tourches TA, and somehow thats paul's fault from the bench. :)
We're obviously in agreement as to Granger.
Jefferson torched him because he hit 14 straight points on him in about a 3 min stretch. Paul did absolutely nothing about it defensively, nor did he act like he cared he was getting torched.
Artest launching bad shots like usual versus posting PP up does not qualify PP as having played great defense. That is what Artest does half the time. Same goes for Deng. 80% of the time he is invisible and the other 20% he looks dominant. It wasn't PP's defense. Deng just wasn't agressive.
He played solid against Lebron, however nothing spectacular. Lebron was taking him to the basket at will. KG and Perk's defense at the rim was bailing him out.
As far as Prince goes, you're wrong. PP was guarding him the majority of the time that Prince was going off. He was late rotating out to Prince and showed very little effort in running out to him. Most of his open shots were with Paul on the floor. Go back and watch the tape! So one of his fouls was a bad call. You can say that every game. 3 of them were not, and it was his being lazy and reaching versus getting his feet in position that got him those fouls, so it was the same cause/result.
Once again. I am commenting more on PP's attitude versus his ability. We know he can do it if he wants. I don't think wanting him to be the leader and setting a KG type example is being too hard to please.
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Let's see. Granger torched him, Prince torched him, Jefferson torched him. Deng and Artest play themselves out of games so I don't give Pierce much credit for that. A little, but not that his defense caused that problem. He had a solid game against Lebron, however Lebron was really getting by him at will and not getting his usual "Jordan" calls at the rim. That has more to do with it than his great D against him.
So even 3 out of 7 games he goes against lesser talent that an agressive style of play would have helped, he doesn't step up. When you are struggling on the offensive end you HAVE to turn it up on the defensive end. PP isn't doing that. You know that he isn't putting the same kind of effort out there that KG or Perk is. Last year he was. I am not trying to rip him to shreds. I know he isn't going to stay in this offensive funk. I think he is doing pretty well in the other couple columns, but you can't say the guy is giving it the same level of effort on the defensive end of the floor. You can see it in his face when he is getting lit up. He acts like it is no big deal. I know when I am playing pickup and a guy starts lighting me up I get real intense real fast. Last year so did PP. My only question on this thread is why?!
1. granger tourched everyone.
2. He only played 25 minutes. Prince tourched TA. you can't play bad defense from the bench, and even sheed was laughing at the offical on the 2nd and third fouls that sent him to the bench for the first half. (the phantom one on him that should have been on perk ticked doc off so much he picked up a Tech, somethign doc RARLEY does.)
3. How did jefferson "tourch" him? he had 20 points on 48% shooting, both of which are below his season averages. apperntly your defintion of tourched is alot less than mine. it seems to be fairly low.
4. So, the great defensive preformances don't count. gotcha. convient for your argument, that.
your a tough man to please EJ, he does great against 3 of the top 10 SF's in the leauge, its because they played like crap. Granger goes out of his mind, hitting contested jumpers over everyone on the C's roster, and its due to pierce's defense, while prince tourches TA, and somehow thats paul's fault from the bench. :)
We're obviously in agreement as to Granger.
Jefferson torched him because he hit 14 straight points on him in about a 3 min stretch. Paul did absolutely nothing about it defensively, nor did he act like he cared he was getting torched.
Artest launching bad shots like usual versus posting PP up does not qualify PP as having played great defense. That is what Artest does half the time. Same goes for Deng. 80% of the time he is invisible and the other 20% he looks dominant. It wasn't PP's defense. Deng just wasn't agressive.
He played solid against Lebron, however nothing spectacular. Lebron was taking him to the basket at will. KG and Perk's defense at the rim was bailing him out.
As far as Prince goes, you're wrong. PP was guarding him the majority of the time that Prince was going off. He was late rotating out to Prince and showed very little effort in running out to him. Most of his open shots were with Paul on the floor. Go back and watch the tape! So one of his fouls was a bad call. You can say that every game. 3 of them were not, and it was his being lazy and reaching versus getting his feet in position that got him those fouls, so it was the same cause/result.
Once again. I am commenting more on PP's attitude versus his ability. We know he can do it if he wants. I don't thin wanting him to be the leader and setting a KG type example is being too hard to please.
How can you say that the players he is defending are taking bad shots is a negative on Pierce. That means he was doing his job.
Prince seemed to have a consistent night last night, and that means that Pierce wasn't on the court the whole time he was scoring.
Obviously LeBron was penetrating at will, he can do that against anyone.
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He played solid against Lebron, however nothing spectacular. Lebron was taking him to the basket at will. KG and Perk's defense at the rim was bailing him out.
Obviously LeBron was penetrating at will, he can do that against anyone.
I completely agree with ma11's response. Bringing up Lebron is silly. I dont know if youve seen Lebron play before, but if you look or breathe on him the wrong way when hes driving to the basket a foul will be called. Help defense is how you stop Lebron (or at least slow him down), and our front court defense is why he had such a hard time against us last year in the playoffs. What youre expecting of Pierce would have him on the bench with 4 fouls before the end of the first quarter, and this year we have no James Posey to step right in.
It's been six games folks, slumps happen. Can we please wait AT LEAST a half season before we throw the player we crowned a HERO less than 5 months ago, under the bus.
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In ways you are all right about Pierce's defense.
For instance what I have seen is that Pierce gambles defensively early in games playing off his man, playing the passing lanes and attempting to double down low rather than stay on his man. RJ and Prince took advantage of that. However, the second half of the Milwaukee game Pierce didn't gamble or double down, he manned up and Jefferson's shooting suffered.
Last night, Prince shot well because Pierce played off him. That may very well have been by design as I would rather have Prince attempting 20-23 foot shots than Hamilton or Iverson or even Wallace. Notice Wallace's man played him tight outside and Iverson and Hamilton were smothered. When playing the Pistons if we can shut down Hamilton, Wallace and Iverson and force Prince to shoot long to beat us, I'm okay by that.
Pierce's defense in other games hasn't been as good as some of his teammates and, yes, players on some of those teams do tend to take themselves out of games but I don't think Pierce was playing poor defense, just not extraordinary defense.
His passing and rebounding have been excellent. Overall I don't see the disinterested viewpoint but I have seen a guy that defensively hasn't been up to the level that his team mates have been playing at at times. But I wouldn't say he has played bad defense.
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In ways you are all right about Pierce's defense.
For instance what I have seen is that Pierce gambles defensively early in games playing off his man, playing the passing lanes and attempting to double down low rather than stay on his man. RJ and Prince took advantage of that. However, the second half of the Milwaukee game Pierce didn't gamble or double down, he manned up and Jefferson's shooting suffered.
Last night, Prince shot well because Pierce played off him. That may very well have been by design as I would rather have Prince attempting 20-23 foot shots than Hamilton or Iverson or even Wallace. Notice Wallace's man played him tight outside and Iverson and Hamilton were smothered. When playing the Pistons if we can shut down Hamilton, Wallace and Iverson and force Prince to shoot long to beat us, I'm okay by that.
Pierce's defense in other games hasn't been as good as some of his teammates and, yes, players on some of those teams do tend to take themselves out of games but I don't think Pierce was playing poor defense, just not extraordinary defense.
His passing and rebounding have been excellent. Overall I don't see the disinterested viewpoint but I have seen a guy that defensively hasn't been up to the level that his team mates have been playing at at times. But I wouldn't say he has played bad defense.
TP to you nick for at least understanding what I was saying. I'm not sure how many times I have to state to them that I am not saying PP should sit, or that he won't get it back, rather that as the leader of this team we need him to set a tone. KG and Perk do that. Rondo and Ray even to a lesser degree. PP doesn't this year. He did last year. He is just not playing with the fire that he had last year and I am not sure why. I am not saying that he didn't play mediocre defense at least. You just can't have your guy being the only one on the floor that is beating you and this is what is happening. Everyone else is playing the type of D that won us a championship last year and he isn't there yet. The question was simply why isn't he there yet?!
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He played solid against Lebron, however nothing spectacular. Lebron was taking him to the basket at will. KG and Perk's defense at the rim was bailing him out.
Obviously LeBron was penetrating at will, he can do that against anyone.
I completely agree with ma11's response. Bringing up Lebron is silly. I dont know if youve seen Lebron play before, but if you look or breathe on him the wrong way when hes driving to the basket a foul will be called. Help defense is how you stop Lebron (or at least slow him down), and our front court defense is why he had such a hard time against us last year in the playoffs. What youre expecting of Pierce would have him on the bench with 4 fouls before the end of the first quarter, and this year we have no James Posey to step right in.
It's been six games folks, slumps happen. Can we please wait AT LEAST a half season before we throw the player we crowned a HERO less than 5 months ago, under the bus.
No, writing 3 paragraphs about a post you deem silly is silly.
I don't care if you agree with me or not, but don't overstate my point. I never threw PP under the bus, rather wondered why he doesn't seem to be "in the defensive game" like the rest of the team is. Especially when he has been bad on the offensive end. His missed chippy layups and poor foul shooting are additional symptoms of not being that into it yet.
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I agree with EJ Playa and Nick regarding Pierce's defense. Especially in the first quarter versus the Bucks, where he was making half-hearted runs to close out Jefferson. He's not playing always with high intensity, sometimes he turns it on, sometimes he turns it off.
Offensively, I think he has been okay. Shooting slumps happen. As long as you keep playing the right way, they'll go away.
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Oh captain, my captain. That's a heck of a fourth quarter. Vintage Paul Pierce. JO must've been having flashbacks to the third quarter of that playoff game against the Pacers a few years ago.
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PP just proved me right in that one. For the first half and part way through the 3rd Q he was plugging along half-heartedly. Then finally THE TRUTH decided to show. He stepped up his D, got more aggressive out there, and took that game over. His D translated into offense. That is all I was looking for Paul! Next time let's do that in the first quarter. Then we don't have to win a nail biter.
When he plays his complete game he is really the man and truly our fearless leader...
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Not trying to make excuses for Pierce but when i listen to him in the postgame comments with Greg Dickerson,sounds like Paul is physically ill(cold/flu possibility.He sounds real hoarse and looks sick a little.Maybe he hasnt felt up to par in the 2or 3 previous games,just a thought.
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PP just proved me right in that one. For the first half and part way through the 3rd Q he was plugging along half-heartedly. Then finally THE TRUTH decided to show. He stepped up his D, got more aggressive out there, and took that game over. His D translated into offense. That is all I was looking for Paul! Next time let's do that in the first quarter. Then we don't have to win a nail biter.
When he plays his complete game he is really the man and truly our fearless leader...
so what was KG, rondo, ray allen, and perk's problem for the first half if pierce's was just not caring? same or do they get a pass?
This lack of effort your putting on pierce contagious, or all of them being beat on a back to back with a ton of travel?
I'll vote Back to back rust and facing a good team, and the sprained wrist thats been bothering him apperntly
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PP just proved me right in that one. For the first half and part way through the 3rd Q he was plugging along half-heartedly. Then finally THE TRUTH decided to show. He stepped up his D, got more aggressive out there, and took that game over. His D translated into offense. That is all I was looking for Paul! Next time let's do that in the first quarter. Then we don't have to win a nail biter.
When he plays his complete game he is really the man and truly our fearless leader...
so what was KG, rondo, ray allen, and perk's problem for the first half if pierce's was just not caring? same or do they get a pass?
This lack of effort your putting on pierce contagious, or all of them being beat on a back to back with a ton of travel?
I'll vote Back to back rust and facing a good team.
I strongly disagree with EJ that Paul wasn't trying in the 1st half and then all of a sudden decided to care once they got down by 15. This team has struggled to start off games this year, not only Paul, and I'm not sure how EJ will ever be able to prove that Paul isn't giving it his all. It really isn't fair at all to Paul to start doubting his effort after a few bad starts, after all that he's done for this franchise. Tonight the guy passed Cousy for career FT attempts, and now McHale I believe is the only Celtic to shoot more FTs than him. That, right there, is effort for you.
The way Pierce played in the first half completely disproved EJ's point, if you ignore the boxscore and just use your eyes. Tommy was getting on the team for shooting too many outside shots, but most of Pierce's long distance attempts were wide open, and were definitely not "settled" upon by Paul. And since when do missed shots equal poor effort? Also, Paul tried on numerous occasions to drive to the hoop - he just missed a few bunnies uncharacteristically. Again, he may have been having a rough time out there, but all the missed layups proved was that he was having a bad half. Finally, there was one play Paul made in the first half that assured me that Paul Pierce is still Paul Pierce. Right after the Celtics had gotten, as Tommy called it, "embarassed," when Kapono dished it off to Humphries for the slam, I said to myself that Paul was going to get the basketball and truck it into the lane. Even though it was early in the game, Paul knew that he needed to put a stop to the Raptors' momentum, and he did so (temporarily) the way he knows best: drive to the hole.
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http://www.nba.com/games/20081110/TORBOS/recap.html (http://www.nba.com/games/20081110/TORBOS/recap.html)
Nuff said?
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http://www.nba.com/games/20081110/TORBOS/recap.html (http://www.nba.com/games/20081110/TORBOS/recap.html)
Nuff said?
My God. I watched the game last night but was too tired to comment then, but I read the recap this morning and I swear I was going to post the recap link with the words "nuff said" with it. No joke, great minds think alike huh?
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http://www.nba.com/games/20081110/TORBOS/recap.html (http://www.nba.com/games/20081110/TORBOS/recap.html)
Nuff said?
My God. I watched the game last night but was too tired to comment then, but I read the recap this morning and I swear I was going to post the recap link with the words "nuff said" with it. No joke, great minds think alike huh?
That's right, my good man ;)
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To a certain extent Paul will coast on offense - and then turn it on at times. I don't see any problem with that. The OP was mocking Paul's output in an easy win. But PP is all about the team winning - not about individual numbers. Could he score 25+ points every night if he wanted to? Sure. But he tries to play a team first game and take things over when they NEED him too.
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Come on guys. Stop changing what I was saying! I said that PP wasn't coming out with defensive intensity and it was hurting this team. I wondered why. In the post game interview PP said exactly that. He said that they weren't coming out to start games with the defensive intensity that they needed to and included last nights game. PP is backing up what I said. I don't need anyone else on here to validate that. The man himself agreed. He said they needed to do a better job and they weren't playing as intense on the defensive end as they should. How can anyone continue to disagree with my point after that?!
I said that I wasn't worried about his offense, that it would come back. I stated that if he stepped up the D the team would follow. There was an obvious difference in that game when he and KG started playing that way. No one can dismiss that. Then the entire team started feeding off that and we started coming back. PP's timely return of his jumper sealed it, and I credit his defense for getting that going as well. I hope he listens to his own words of wisdom and starts the games this way.
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Come on guys. Stop changing what I was saying! I said that PP wasn't coming out with defensive intensity and it was hurting this team. I wondered why. In the post game interview PP said exactly that. He said that they weren't coming out to start games with the defensive intensity that they needed to and included last nights game. PP is backing up what I said. I don't need anyone else on here to validate that. The man himself agreed. He said they needed to do a better job and they weren't playing as intense on the defensive end as they should. How can anyone continue to disagree with my point after that?!
I said that I wasn't worried about his offense, that it would come back. I stated that if he stepped up the D the team would follow. There was an obvious difference in that game when he and KG started playing that way. No one can dismiss that. Then the entire team started feeding off that and we started coming back. PP's timely return of his jumper sealed it, and I credit his defense for getting that going as well. I hope he listens to his own words of wisdom and starts the games this way.
I have to give a TP to EJ here because he is right.
His criticism, and that's all it was it wasn't "mocking" or "throwing under the bus" or some of the more inflammatory ways used to describe EJ's original post, was with his defensive intensity and a possible perceived lack of focus. Let's not twist his words because you may not like the direction his criticism is aimed. He had a valid point that more than one other person here agreed with.
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Come on guys. Stop changing what I was saying! I said that PP wasn't coming out with defensive intensity and it was hurting this team. I wondered why. In the post game interview PP said exactly that. He said that they weren't coming out to start games with the defensive intensity that they needed to and included last nights game. PP is backing up what I said. I don't need anyone else on here to validate that. The man himself agreed. He said they needed to do a better job and they weren't playing as intense on the defensive end as they should. How can anyone continue to disagree with my point after that?!
I said that I wasn't worried about his offense, that it would come back. I stated that if he stepped up the D the team would follow. There was an obvious difference in that game when he and KG started playing that way. No one can dismiss that. Then the entire team started feeding off that and we started coming back. PP's timely return of his jumper sealed it, and I credit his defense for getting that going as well. I hope he listens to his own words of wisdom and starts the games this way.
I have to give a TP to EJ here because he is right.
His criticism, and that's all it was it wasn't "mocking" or "throwing under the bus" or some of the more inflammatory ways used to describe EJ's original post, was with his defensive intensity and a possible perceived lack of focus. Let's not twist his words because you may not like the direction his criticism is aimed. He had a valid point that more than one other person here agreed with.
his point is it's due to a lack of effort, which i certainly DON't agree with. The struggles are thier, and EJ made a good argument, but no, i don't accept that Paul is coasting on defense and not trying, sorry.
I also don't accept that getting in foul trouble in one game and having a kid go off on everyone consititutes "proof" of lack of focus and effort, and yet all the other good defensive preformances were because of, and I'm qouting "Taking bad shots and clanging up threes" is an acceptable out for one half of your argument being falicious.
People take and clang 3's because they can't drive due to good defense, not because they say "well, i COULD drive, this guys not putting the effort in, but screw it, i love shooting from way outside my range, im a moron"
EJ made his argument about pierce's lack of effort and commitment and disagreement, and He's argued it well. Not agreeing with him doesn't mean i'm somehow summarily dismissing paul's struggles or "changing what he's saying"
You questioned paul's effort and commitment to defense, using specfic examples. I challanged those examples. How is that changing what your saying?
To EJ i would say, don't change your argument halfway through. You argued it well, and to be sure, you could be right and i could be wrong, i don't know the man, mabey he is dogging it on defense and not coming out with defensive intensity, but its odd that every example i bring up (I.E the 5/7 games where he was good to great) is dissmised out of hand while his two bad games (granger and prince) are magnified.
He did well on arrtest? arrtest wanted to shoot bad shots all night, nothing to do with paul.
Did well on green? He's a rookie, of course paul did well.
Did well on LBJ? lebron wanted to take jumpers and shoot 30%, it was part of his plan, nothing to do with paul.
He held RJ to below his averages? doesn't matter, RJ tourched him.
I fail to see how providing examples of when paul put in good defensive effort is "changing the argument" when the argument, as per the post was "paul isn't bringing good defensive effort, and thats hurting the team"
its having a diffreing opnion, which is allowed . It doesn't mean im 100% right nor that EJ is 100% wrong, it means we disagree. and how boring would this borad be of we agreed on everything 100% of the time?
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Come on guys. Stop changing what I was saying! I said that PP wasn't coming out with defensive intensity and it was hurting this team. I wondered why. In the post game interview PP said exactly that. He said that they weren't coming out to start games with the defensive intensity that they needed to and included last nights game. PP is backing up what I said. I don't need anyone else on here to validate that. The man himself agreed. He said they needed to do a better job and they weren't playing as intense on the defensive end as they should. How can anyone continue to disagree with my point after that?!
I said that I wasn't worried about his offense, that it would come back. I stated that if he stepped up the D the team would follow. There was an obvious difference in that game when he and KG started playing that way. No one can dismiss that. Then the entire team started feeding off that and we started coming back. PP's timely return of his jumper sealed it, and I credit his defense for getting that going as well. I hope he listens to his own words of wisdom and starts the games this way.
I have to give a TP to EJ here because he is right.
His criticism, and that's all it was it wasn't "mocking" or "throwing under the bus" or some of the more inflammatory ways used to describe EJ's original post, was with his defensive intensity and a possible perceived lack of focus. Let's not twist his words because you may not like the direction his criticism is aimed. He had a valid point that more than one other person here agreed with.
his point is it's due to a lack of effort, which i certainly DON't agree with. The struggles are thier, and EJ made a good argument, but no, i don't accept that Paul is coasting on defense and not trying, sorry.
I also don't accept that getting in foul trouble in one game and having a kid go off on everyone consititutes "proof" of lack of focus and effort, and yet all the other good defensive preformances were because of, and I'm qouting "Taking bad shots and clanging up threes" is an acceptable out for one half of your argument being falicious.
People take and clang 3's because they can't drive due to good defense, not because they say "well, i COULD drive, this guys not putting the effort in, but screw it, i love shooting from way outside my range, im a moron"
EJ made his argument about pierce's lack of effort and commitment and disagreement, and He's argued it well. Not agreeing with him doesn't mean i'm somehow summarily dismissing paul's struggles or "changing what he's saying"
You questioned paul's effort and commitment to defense, using specfic examples. I challanged those examples. How is that changing what your saying?
To EJ i would say, don't change your argument halfway through. You argued it well, and to be sure, you could be right and i could be wrong, i don't know the man, mabey he is dogging it on defense and not coming out with defensive intensity, but its odd that every example i bring up (I.E the 5/7 games where he was good to great) is dissmised out of hand while his two bad games (granger and prince) are magnified.
He did well on arrtest? arrtest wanted to shoot bad shots all night, nothing to do with paul.
Did well on green? He's a rookie, of course paul did well.
Did well on LBJ? lebron wanted to take jumpers and shoot 30%, it was part of his plan, nothing to do with paul.
He held RJ to below his averages? doesn't matter, RJ tourched him.
I fail to see how providing examples of when paul put in good defensive effort is "changing the argument" when the argument, as per the post was "paul isn't bringing good defensive effort, and thats hurting the team"
its having a diffreing opnion, which is allowed . It doesn't mean im 100% right nor that EJ is 100% wrong, it means we disagree. and how boring would this borad be of we agreed on everything 100% of the time?
You are definitely entitled to your opinion and to disagree, however I have one thing on this one on my side that you don't. That's PP himself agreeing with me. So argue that he and I are wrong all you want, but he himself said the exact same thing that I did on TV last night after the game. I think that is one in my corner thank you very much...
I do appreciate your comments on here though Crownsy. Keep up the great effort! TP to you for your insight and being a great fan.
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(...)
This lack of effort your putting on pierce contagious, or all of them being beat on a back to back with a ton of travel?
(...)
There's nothing more contagious in a basketball team than lack of effort on the defensive end. Not even the flu. It only takes a single player to dismantle an entire defense, it's just a matter of time. Theoretically, I doubt it's the case here.
Pierce's defense was also off for a good part of last night game. Pretty obvious, in my eyes. He was not the only one though. For instance, Rondo was going under when guarding Calderon even without Garnett on the floor and I doubt that was what coaches asked him. There were a couple of times in the first half were two players were running to close out the same shooter. Rotations and overall defensive focus need to be tuned.
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Guys Pierce is probably adjusting to his weight loss...you can tell that his shooting is off early because of his free throw shooting...PP is not a BAD free throw shooter and getting his wrist hurt doesn't help at all!
Pierce's defense can obviously be better but do you guys know how hard it is to guard some of the guys he's guarding? Maybe he is cheating a little bit to give help somewhere else leaving his man open a little more but that can be fixed easily.
Pierce isn't the only one taking and missing his jumpers...KG, Ray, Eddie, Rondo....all of them can't make jumpers consistently and they seem to like to start off with a flurry of them early when penetrating and scoring down low could potentially work better.
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Reminder to all:
WE'RE STILL 7 AND 1 ;)
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I hate to keep bringing this up, but I love our fearless leader. MVP material these last two games.
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Like KG said:
"Superman's in the booth.
Get the hell out of the way."
Yessiree!