Author Topic: Interesting Fanside trade idea  (Read 4466 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Interesting Fanside trade idea
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2021, 03:44:22 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11228
  • Tommy Points: 860
Randle I can understand being enticed by the talent a little bit. Others have pointed out the flaws. He's leading the league in minutes played and not super efficient, this is what he looks like as the #1 option for a bad team. So, I don't make this trade, but 22-11-6 is nothing to sneeze at. If you could actually convince him to play 25mpg against mismatches and 2nd units, and play hard, then he's obviously a weapon. But that's a big "if" that again shouldn't cost you Walker.

To me, there are a couple of things that contribute to efficiency.  One is shooting percentage.  The others are made 3s and free throws.  Overall, Randle is getting 22.5 points on 16.6 shots.  That is OK.  His overall shooting percentage is about 48%.  Not bad for the top scorer on a team who gets stuck with end of shot clock shots, but for a big, a little low.  He takes 3.6 3-attempts per game at 35.6% and 6.8 FT at 81.4%.  Those are both very good (efficient) for a big.

If he were to bring his 16.6 shots per game to the Celtics, it would be expected that he would get less touches (Kemba was at 15.9 shots last season and is at 14.0 this season).  For comparison, right now, Tatum takes 21.3 shots and Brown takes 19.8.  I would see Randle still getting shots, maybe 12 or so per game but hopefully more selective leading to improved efficiency.  Randle would not be taking shots away from Tatum and Brown, he would be taking Walker's shots (and not necessarily all of them)  or maybe from the other Bigs.

Randle has flaws, as does Walker, but I think Randle would help the team.  I think Randle would thrive on this team as the # 3 star, potentially for years to come.  I would far prefer him to Kevin Love (I think everyone agrees with that).  Walker is in the twilight of his career (forgive me Dan Duquette).

Re: Interesting Fanside trade idea
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2021, 03:50:47 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Randle's TS% is 57.3 % while the current league average is 56.6%. So his efficiency is average. Very average. You got to wonder if it would get much better playing alongside Kemba and the Jays who's gravity would allow Randle to possibly be more efficient.

Overall hate the idea in the OP.

Re: Interesting Fanside trade idea
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2021, 04:01:34 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11228
  • Tommy Points: 860
If the Knicks think Randle is a franchise cornerstone to build around, they will continue to be the Knicks. There's a reason why the Lakers and the Pelicans gave up on him so easily, and the Knicks were the only team willing to offer him that size of contract even though he was just coming off a 21-9-3 season with 52/34/73 shooting splits.

We mostly agree.  If the Knicks think Randle is a franchise cornerstone, they are not going to trade him to the Celtics for 30 year old Kemba Walker unless they wrongly believe Kemba is an even better cornerstone and will be for several more years.  The point is that the Celtics don't need Randle to be a franchise cornerstone, they already have a couple of those in Tatum and Brown.  If Randle performed as a top 10 or top 7 PF in the league, he would be a huge improvement for the Celtics, and in my opinion, worth trading Kemba Walker for.

Kemba and Randle are similar though in that they have both put up stats on bad teams most of their careers.  Kemba was great on a good team last season, not the franchise cornerstone but a good, important, money player.  But then his knee flared up and it is going to flare up again at some point, and with increasing frequency and severity.

Re: Interesting Fanside trade idea
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2021, 03:42:10 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11228
  • Tommy Points: 860
I was looking at something that got me thinking some more about Julius Randle and the luke warm reaction to him.  I am going to play the game of comparing Randle's stats to another PF's stats without identifying the other player to start:

Randle      36.7 min / 20.4 pts / 12.3 rebs / 5.8 Assts / 3.4 TO / 47% FG% / 36% 3P% / 81% FT% / 0.2 BLK / Age 26 / 6' - 8"
Young PF  36.7 min / 22.5 pts / 11.3 rebs / 6.0 Assts / 3.4 TO / 55% FG% / 37% 3P% / 68% FT% / 0.4 BLK / Age 24 / 6' - 11"

I imagine most will guess who the mystery young PF is but he is considered one of the best young players in the game.  Essentially untouchable in terms of his team trading him.  Where as the reaction to Randle in this thread is "eh", hollow stats, needs the ball in his hands.  For the record, I think the other young PF is a better overall PF prospect and franchise asset than Randle, but not by a lot.  Both are great young players and both would be great adds to the Celtics.

The mystery PF is Domantas Sabonis (if you hadn't guessed).  Looking principally at ESPN PER, here is the ranking for top players I consider as true PF (or likely to play as full time PF):

1. Antetokounmpo MIL
2. Boucher TOR
3. Davis LAL
4. Williamson NOP
5. Wood* HOU (listed as a C)
6. Sabonis IND
7. Randle NYK

I don't know how Chris Boucher gets in there, I don't think of him as a top PF.  Sometimes the PER gets off.   Boucher has a 45% 3P% so maybe that is why is PER is unexpectedly high.  He is not even the starting PF on the team, so he can be discregarded.  Durant is listed as PF but I see him as a SF but if he was included, he would be #1.  Christian Wood is listed as a center but based on his PER, this is where he would rank as a PF.  I think most teams would be happy to have him as their starting PF.  All this puts Sabonis at #6 and Randle at #7 for best PF in the game (+/- depending on if you want to consider Durant and Boucher).  That seems about right.

Re: Interesting Fanside trade idea
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2021, 04:17:31 PM »

Offline Wretch

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 506
  • Tommy Points: 42
I was looking at something that got me thinking some more about Julius Randle and the luke warm reaction to him.  I am going to play the game of comparing Randle's stats to another PF's stats without identifying the other player to start:

Randle      36.7 min / 20.4 pts / 12.3 rebs / 5.8 Assts / 3.4 TO / 47% FG% / 36% 3P% / 81% FT% / 0.2 BLK / Age 26 / 6' - 8"
Young PF  36.7 min / 22.5 pts / 11.3 rebs / 6.0 Assts / 3.4 TO / 55% FG% / 37% 3P% / 68% FT% / 0.4 BLK / Age 24 / 6' - 11"

I imagine most will guess who the mystery young PF is but he is considered one of the best young players in the game.  Essentially untouchable in terms of his team trading him.  Where as the reaction to Randle in this thread is "eh", hollow stats, needs the ball in his hands.  For the record, I think the other young PF is a better overall PF prospect and franchise asset than Randle, but not by a lot.  Both are great young players and both would be great adds to the Celtics.

The mystery PF is Domantas Sabonis (if you hadn't guessed).  Looking principally at ESPN PER, here is the ranking for top players I consider as true PF (or likely to play as full time PF):

1. Antetokounmpo MIL
2. Boucher TOR
3. Davis LAL
4. Williamson NOP
5. Wood* HOU (listed as a C)
6. Sabonis IND
7. Randle NYK

I don't know how Chris Boucher gets in there, I don't think of him as a top PF.  Sometimes the PER gets off.   Boucher has a 45% 3P% so maybe that is why is PER is unexpectedly high.  He is not even the starting PF on the team, so he can be discregarded.  Durant is listed as PF but I see him as a SF but if he was included, he would be #1.  Christian Wood is listed as a center but based on his PER, this is where he would rank as a PF.  I think most teams would be happy to have him as their starting PF.  All this puts Sabonis at #6 and Randle at #7 for best PF in the game (+/- depending on if you want to consider Durant and Boucher).  That seems about right.

Isn't Randle primarily playing center due to his defensive liabilities?

Re: Interesting Fanside trade idea
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2021, 01:49:37 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11228
  • Tommy Points: 860
I was looking at something that got me thinking some more about Julius Randle and the luke warm reaction to him.  I am going to play the game of comparing Randle's stats to another PF's stats without identifying the other player to start:

Randle      36.7 min / 20.4 pts / 12.3 rebs / 5.8 Assts / 3.4 TO / 47% FG% / 36% 3P% / 81% FT% / 0.2 BLK / Age 26 / 6' - 8"
Young PF  36.7 min / 22.5 pts / 11.3 rebs / 6.0 Assts / 3.4 TO / 55% FG% / 37% 3P% / 68% FT% / 0.4 BLK / Age 24 / 6' - 11"

I imagine most will guess who the mystery young PF is but he is considered one of the best young players in the game.  Essentially untouchable in terms of his team trading him.  Where as the reaction to Randle in this thread is "eh", hollow stats, needs the ball in his hands.  For the record, I think the other young PF is a better overall PF prospect and franchise asset than Randle, but not by a lot.  Both are great young players and both would be great adds to the Celtics.

The mystery PF is Domantas Sabonis (if you hadn't guessed).  Looking principally at ESPN PER, here is the ranking for top players I consider as true PF (or likely to play as full time PF):

1. Antetokounmpo MIL
2. Boucher TOR
3. Davis LAL
4. Williamson NOP
5. Wood* HOU (listed as a C)
6. Sabonis IND
7. Randle NYK

I don't know how Chris Boucher gets in there, I don't think of him as a top PF.  Sometimes the PER gets off.   Boucher has a 45% 3P% so maybe that is why is PER is unexpectedly high.  He is not even the starting PF on the team, so he can be discregarded.  Durant is listed as PF but I see him as a SF but if he was included, he would be #1.  Christian Wood is listed as a center but based on his PER, this is where he would rank as a PF.  I think most teams would be happy to have him as their starting PF.  All this puts Sabonis at #6 and Randle at #7 for best PF in the game (+/- depending on if you want to consider Durant and Boucher).  That seems about right.

Isn't Randle primarily playing center due to his defensive liabilities?

Actually, no very much just the opposite.  The Knicks' most used lineups by far include Randle on the court with Mitchell Robinson so Randle as PF and Robinson as C.  Randle is also on the court some with Nerlens Noel. 

Julius Randle is about a close as you can get to a pure PF these days.  And I don't think his defense has anything to do with that.