Interesting Fanside trade idea

[Moranis]

The original trade is a terrible trade for Boston and the second one isn't much better.  Randle for Walker, really?

[tonydelk]

Boston Celtics get: Kevin Love, Terry Rozier,

Cleveland Cavaliers get: Julius Randle, Romeo Langford, Frank Ntilikina, 2021 New York Knicks second-round pick

Charlotte Hornets get: Dennis Smith Jr., Kevin Knox, 2021 New York Knicks heavily protected first-round pick

New York Knicks get: Kemba Walker, Daniel Theis, Larry Nance Jr., Grant Williams

Thompson, Tatum, Brown, Smart, Rozier...6th man Love

Interesting in how bad a deal it is or interesting in that someone came up with this while stoned.  Bad deal, no thank you.

[Tr1boy]

Boston Celtics get: Kevin Love, Terry Rozier,

Cleveland Cavaliers get: Julius Randle, Romeo Langford, Frank Ntilikina, 2021 New York Knicks second-round pick

Charlotte Hornets get: Dennis Smith Jr., Kevin Knox, 2021 New York Knicks heavily protected first-round pick

New York Knicks get: Kemba Walker, Daniel Theis, Larry Nance Jr., Grant Williams

Thompson, Tatum, Brown, Smart, Rozier...6th man Love

Danny is not going to trade Walker this season.  Unless he initiates that he wants out

But next offseason, I think Walker even knows he could be on his way out.   And he also wants to plan to sign one more big contract before his NBA career is done  (which won't be coming from the Celtics)

Good possibility traded next offseason:  Walker
Decent possibility: Marcus Smart

Especially with the rise in play from Pritchard, Langford, Nesmith 

[Moranis]

I certainly don't think Walker is going to be traded this season and I wouldn't trade him, but if he was to be traded, I think the team would need a defensive oriented PG and a young big man coming back.  Some shooting wouldn't hurt either.  Not stars, but that is what the team should be looking at. 

So this is a trade I think might work for both teams

Boston - Bledsoe, Hayes, Redick
New Orleans - Walker, G. Williams, Ojeleye, 21 1st

I think that seems like a good trade for both teams. 

Boston gets a lesser player at PG, but some potential shooting in Redick, and a potential long term starting center in Hayes.  Unless Redick goes back to prior years, that team probably has a slightly lower ceiling this year, but if Hayes pains out it could pay big dividends down the line and that to me is more critical (there is also more salary wiggle room going forward in that scenario better allowing use of the TPE).  So starters Bledsoe, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Thompson with Smart, Redick, R. Williams, Hayes being the main rotation and Pritchard, Teague, Nesmith, and Langford getting regularish minutes throughout the season.

As for New Orleans, I think it could use someone like Walker to provide the leadership at point, Grant is a decent fit next to Zion, and Ojeleye is quality depth.  They also pick up another late 1st to use in a trade.  They can then move Lonzo in a separate trade and still feel good about their PG spot with Walker for the short term and Lewis for the long term.  And even if they don't move Lonzo, Walker is a much better and consistent shooter than Bledsoe so he can play off the ball a lot better, which should help their starting lineup a lot more.

[Hoopvortex]

This should be more Farside than Fanside.

Just when I was cursing myself for wasting my time on this trade proposal, this little gem appeared.

TP!

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I certainly don't think Walker is going to be traded this season and I wouldn't trade him, but if he was to be traded, I think the team would need a defensive oriented PG and a young big man coming back.  Some shooting wouldn't hurt either.  Not stars, but that is what the team should be looking at. 

So this is a trade I think might work for both teams

Boston - Bledsoe, Hayes, Redick
New Orleans - Walker, G. Williams, Ojeleye, 21 1st

I think that seems like a good trade for both teams. 

Boston gets a lesser player at PG, but some potential shooting in Redick, and a potential long term starting center in Hayes.  Unless Redick goes back to prior years, that team probably has a slightly lower ceiling this year, but if Hayes pains out it could pay big dividends down the line and that to me is more critical (there is also more salary wiggle room going forward in that scenario better allowing use of the TPE).  So starters Bledsoe, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Thompson with Smart, Redick, R. Williams, Hayes being the main rotation and Pritchard, Teague, Nesmith, and Langford getting regularish minutes throughout the season.

As for New Orleans, I think it could use someone like Walker to provide the leadership at point, Grant is a decent fit next to Zion, and Ojeleye is quality depth.  They also pick up another late 1st to use in a trade.  They can then move Lonzo in a separate trade and still feel good about their PG spot with Walker for the short term and Lewis for the long term.  And even if they don't move Lonzo, Walker is a much better and consistent shooter than Bledsoe so he can play off the ball a lot better, which should help their starting lineup a lot more.

If you think Rob Williams is raw, you should watch Jaxon Hayes. I liked him coming out of college, but I don't think he's going to be a starting-caliber center.

I'm also not a fan of Eric Bledsoe ... at all.

[Roy H.]

Boston - Bledsoe, Hayes, Redick
New Orleans - Walker, G. Williams, Ojeleye, 21 1st

Why are we chipping in a first?

If we were going to make this type of trade, my guess is that better fits are out there. Plus, like others, I just don’t like Bledsoe.

[Moranis]

Boston - Bledsoe, Hayes, Redick
New Orleans - Walker, G. Williams, Ojeleye, 21 1st

Why are we chipping in a first?

If we were going to make this type of trade, my guess is that better fits are out there. Plus, like others, I just don’t like Bledsoe.

Kemba's contract is huge with his knee question marks and Hayes was a top 10 pick last year (super raw, but still talented).  I think it would take a pick to get it done.  Now to make that trade you have to believe in Hayes talent and believe that Redick's more recent improved shooting will continue (his games like 2 through 8 he was terrible but has been close to years past more recently).  Obviously Bledsoe isn't nearly as good as Walker but he also makes less than half his money and has less health question marks.  He is also a better defensive player and Boston with Tatum and Brown can get away with a lesser offensive player as the starting PG.  Trade is a pretty significant long term financial savings for the C's.  Now maybe there are better trades for Walker out, but you do run the risk of the knee flaring up and all but killing any value Walker may have. 

As I said originally, I don't think Boston will trade Walker and I wouldn't either, but that is the type of trade I'd at least consider as I do think it helps Boston long term more than not doing the trade. 

[Vermont Green]

The original trade is a terrible trade for Boston and the second one isn't much better.  Randle for Walker, really?

I don't disagree with what I think is some hesitancy on Randle, but he is one of the top young PF in the league right now.  He has been right around 20/10 for a few years now, admittedly somewhat hollow stats on bad teams but still.  This year, 22.5 and 11.3.  The Celtics could use some of that.

To me,  I like Kemba, he is a good player, but I am nervous about his knee and with Tatum's contract kicking in, it is hard to justify the contract.  There is a big opportunity cost with that.  Plus the career timeline for Randle matches up with Brown and Tatum better.  Right now, Kemba is probably better but is he going to be better at the end of the season or is he going to be like we was last playoffs?

So I came up with an alternative to the proposed deal that I thought was better.  I think a deal of:

Kemba, GWilliams

for

Randle, Knox

Is pretty fair.  To match up with the original trade, I put in Theis to NYK and a first back to us.  This part is not needed but depending on the protections on the pick, it is fair.  If we get Randle, we don't need Theis nearly as much so getting a first for him is reasonable.

I don't expect this to happen but it is the kind of trade the Celtics should be open to.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

The original trade is a terrible trade for Boston and the second one isn't much better.  Randle for Walker, really?

I don't disagree with what I think is some hesitancy on Randle, but he is one of the top young PF in the league right now.  He has been right around 20/10 for a few years now, admittedly somewhat hollow stats on bad teams but still.  This year, 22.5 and 11.3.  The Celtics could use some of that.

To me,  I like Kemba, he is a good player, but I am nervous about his knee and with Tatum's contract kicking in, it is hard to justify the contract.  There is a big opportunity cost with that.  Plus the career timeline for Randle matches up with Brown and Tatum better.  Right now, Kemba is probably better but is he going to be better at the end of the season or is he going to be like we was last playoffs?

So I came up with an alternative to the proposed deal that I thought was better.  I think a deal of:

Kemba, GWilliams

for

Randle, Knox

Is pretty fair.  To match up with the original trade, I put in Theis to NYK and a first back to us.  This part is not needed but depending on the protections on the pick, it is fair.  If we get Randle, we don't need Theis nearly as much so getting a first for him is reasonable.

I don't expect this to happen but it is the kind of trade the Celtics should be open to.

Players aren't stats. The Cs don't add 22 and 11 to their numbers when they take on Randle. They add play styles and pieces that fit or don't fit.

Randle is averaging that much because he has the green light to shoot whenever he wants. Their offense is a bit old school actually. They throw it to him in the post and he creates or kicks it out.

I don't think the Cs improve by adding a player that needs the ball in his hands that much.

On top of that, Randle is a terrible defender. He can't defend the post and he's too small to guard centers. He can't defend the perimeter because he's too slow to defend drivers.

You'd add stats, but you'd end up making a worse team, especially come playoff time.

[byennie]

Randle, Knox, Rozier and Love all have talent, but these are guys where you debate whether they are worth their *salary* and maybe some small asset on a flyer, not that you trade Kemba Walker for.

Love is a straight-up liability at $30M+ and 2 more years, age 32, missing half of his games the past 4 seasons. Cleveland will be talking buyout or dumping his contract at some point. He can still rebound and shoot when he's on the court, but as a role player making max level money and most likely not going to be healthy ever again for the playoffs... you can't possibly want him on a contender.

Knox is 21 and has plenty of talent. On his own, he's worth a look but seems to have regressed since his rookie year. Not going to solve anything for a playoff team, but I mean, sure, you'd take him for cheap.

Rozier we all know, he's talented but overpaid, and we certainly don't want him back as our starting PG. He was literally the consolation prize to Kemba's old team, and we're going to swap back? Yikes. If he was our 6th man for the TPE and everyone buried the past? Maybe. But again that's not this.

Randle I can understand being enticed by the talent a little bit. Others have pointed out the flaws. He's leading the league in minutes played and not super efficient, this is what he looks like as the #1 option for a bad team. So, I don't make this trade, but 22-11-6 is nothing to sneeze at. If you could actually convince him to play 25mpg against mismatches and 2nd units, and play hard, then he's obviously a weapon. But that's a big "if" that again shouldn't cost you Walker.

[GreenEnvy]

Celtics trade Kemba, Theis, Langford, and G. Williams for Love and Rozier? Yikes.

For anyone that thinks Kemba is washed (I don’t, he looks good to me), then what is Love? We are giving up the best player and I don’t believe Rozier impacts winning any more than Theis.

[Vermont Green]

Players aren't stats. The Cs don't add 22 and 11 to their numbers when they take on Randle. They add play styles and pieces that fit or don't fit.

Randle is averaging that much because he has the green light to shoot whenever he wants. Their offense is a bit old school actually. They throw it to him in the post and he creates or kicks it out.

I don't think the Cs improve by adding a player that needs the ball in his hands that much.

On top of that, Randle is a terrible defender. He can't defend the post and he's too small to guard centers. He can't defend the perimeter because he's too slow to defend drivers.

You'd add stats, but you'd end up making a worse team, especially come playoff time.

I think I said exactly that he has been racking up numbers on some bad teams so that his stats are somewhat hollow but even a somewhat hollow 20/10 from a 26 year old big is pretty good.  There is some hollowness in Kemba's career stats also.  And you talk about whether he makes us better come playoff time.  How much better were we with Kemba last playoffs?  Are you sure that Kemba's knee is not going to wear down again?

I don't expect this trade to happen.  In fact, I don't think the Knicks would do it.  In general, young bigs who can put up 20/10 (even if somewhat hollow) have more value than old, shoot first point guards with a history of serious knee injury, even really good ones like Kemba.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Players aren't stats. The Cs don't add 22 and 11 to their numbers when they take on Randle. They add play styles and pieces that fit or don't fit.

Randle is averaging that much because he has the green light to shoot whenever he wants. Their offense is a bit old school actually. They throw it to him in the post and he creates or kicks it out.

I don't think the Cs improve by adding a player that needs the ball in his hands that much.

On top of that, Randle is a terrible defender. He can't defend the post and he's too small to guard centers. He can't defend the perimeter because he's too slow to defend drivers.

You'd add stats, but you'd end up making a worse team, especially come playoff time.

I think I said exactly that he has been racking up numbers on some bad teams so that his stats are somewhat hollow but even a somewhat hollow 20/10 from a 26 year old big is pretty good.  There is some hollowness in Kemba's career stats also.  And you talk about whether he makes us better come playoff time.  How much better were we with Kemba last playoffs?  Are you sure that Kemba's knee is not going to wear down again?

I don't expect this trade to happen.  In fact, I don't think the Knicks would do it.  In general, young bigs who can put up 20/10 (even if somewhat hollow) have more value than old, shoot first point guards with a history of serious knee injury, even really good ones like Kemba.

You did say that about Randle. I didn't mean to represent you.

I don't think Kemba's stats have been hollow at all. He's just not a superstar that can single-handedly get a team to 50 wins. The year before he left, the Hornets had 39 wins. The year after (with Rozier filling in, Graham producing well, and PJ Washington as a surprising rookie), they had 23 wins.

Kemba has routinely been the part of solid offenses while he is on the court--solid enough to get them near the playoffs every year. But the truth is that the Hornets have been a terrible organization to play for.

Walker was an important part of the Cs success last year, and he was an important part of the Sixers series especially. If he is able to get into the paint, it stirs the Cs offense and gets easy looks Tatum and Brown so they don't always have to create their own shots. Walker is very good at that.

If the Knicks think Randle is a franchise cornerstone to build around, they will continue to be the Knicks. There's a reason why the Lakers and the Pelicans gave up on him so easily, and the Knicks were the only team willing to offer him that size of contract even though he was just coming off a 21-9-3 season with 52/34/73 shooting splits.

[nickagneta]

Posted in another thread but it ended up here. This has been happening a lot. Any mod know why it's doing that?