Derrick White extension?

[Moranis]

I feel like the team chose Jrue over Derrick.  The ridiculous contract they gave Jrue makes it very hard to envision them keeping Derrick.

[Big333223]

Does anyone have the number for White's max extension if he were to be extended this summer?

He should be eligible for $245m for 5 years give or take, depending on incentives which would be 30% of the cap for the next 5 years since he’s not on his 10th year yet. He wouldn’t be eligible for a super max which is 35% of the cap. The reason it’s an approximate is because the cap for the next 5 years is a projection.

I don’t think that’s right.  Veteran extensions are limited to a 40% increase from the final year of the original deal, so White’s extension would start at roughly $28 million, or $125 million over four years (also the max length of his extension).

Zach Lowe said something that I hope winds up being true, which is that non-star players are often more inclined to take the guaranteed money than testing free agency, especially when it's a significant raise.

It will be great for the C's if they can get him on an extension this summer because it will almost certainly be cheaper than what they'd have to pay in free agency.

So hard to say.  He's made around $59 million in his career.  Does he jump at $123 million, or does he bet on himself knowing that one healthy year earns him at least $180 over four years.

I'm sure he's quite happy in Boston, but theres a gigantic monetary difference.  Plus, playing out his contract doesn't mean he necessarily has to leave Boston; I'm sure his ideal is to get paid and to stay here as well.

Sure, we all want to get paid as much as we can.

I think Lowe's main point was that there's a difference between guys who expect to get max deals and players like Derek who probably never envisioned signing a contract that's worth $100 mil or more. $123 mil might just feel like so much money that he'll opt for the security.

[Roy H.]

Does anyone have the number for White's max extension if he were to be extended this summer?

He should be eligible for $245m for 5 years give or take, depending on incentives which would be 30% of the cap for the next 5 years since he’s not on his 10th year yet. He wouldn’t be eligible for a super max which is 35% of the cap. The reason it’s an approximate is because the cap for the next 5 years is a projection.

I don’t think that’s right.  Veteran extensions are limited to a 40% increase from the final year of the original deal, so White’s extension would start at roughly $28 million, or $125 million over four years (also the max length of his extension).

Zach Lowe said something that I hope winds up being true, which is that non-star players are often more inclined to take the guaranteed money than testing free agency, especially when it's a significant raise.

It will be great for the C's if they can get him on an extension this summer because it will almost certainly be cheaper than what they'd have to pay in free agency.

So hard to say.  He's made around $59 million in his career.  Does he jump at $123 million, or does he bet on himself knowing that one healthy year earns him at least $180 over four years.

I'm sure he's quite happy in Boston, but theres a gigantic monetary difference.  Plus, playing out his contract doesn't mean he necessarily has to leave Boston; I'm sure his ideal is to get paid and to stay here as well.

Sure, we all want to get paid as much as we can.

I think Lowe's main point was that there's a difference between guys who expect to get max deals and players like Derek who probably never envisioned signing a contract that's worth $100 mil or more. $123 mil might just feel like so much money that he'll opt for the security.

He might.  He also might decide that settling for 2/3 or less of his max is a bad life choice.  I think in the case of most players the disparity isn't that stark.

[Who]

I would take the money if I were D White. Not gambling. He isn't good enough to gamble. He has a down year shooting wise, say 33% from three, nobody is giving him that money. They are not paying a 15ppg 5apg $225mil.

He needs to be perfect to get that type of money. At 31 years old, he is not in any rebuilding team's plans. Only win-now teams. So smaller market to work with as well.

Not worth it. Not worth the risk of a down year shooting wise. After all, his last 2 years are the only good shooting years of his entire career. Not worth if he gets hurt.

Nope. Take the money. Take the money. 

[Roy H.]

I would take the money if I were D White. Not gambling. He isn't good enough to gamble. He has a down year shooting wise, say 33% from three, nobody is giving him that money. They are not paying a 15ppg 5apg $225mil.

He needs to be perfect to get that type of money. At 31 years old, he is not in any rebuilding team's plans. Only win-now teams. So smaller market to work with as well.

Not worth it. Not worth the risk of a down year shooting wise. After all, his last 2 years are the only good shooting years of his entire career. Not worth if he gets hurt.

Nope. Take the money. Take the money.

All he needs is more than $123 million, though.  A starting salary of $27.3 million.  Outside of top-50 money.

[Moranis]

I would take the money if I were D White. Not gambling. He isn't good enough to gamble. He has a down year shooting wise, say 33% from three, nobody is giving him that money. They are not paying a 15ppg 5apg $225mil.

He needs to be perfect to get that type of money. At 31 years old, he is not in any rebuilding team's plans. Only win-now teams. So smaller market to work with as well.

Not worth it. Not worth the risk of a down year shooting wise. After all, his last 2 years are the only good shooting years of his entire career. Not worth if he gets hurt.

Nope. Take the money. Take the money.

All he needs is more than $123 million, though.  A starting salary of $27.3 million.  Outside of top-50 money.

Yep. 4 years, 150 million is a lot better than 4 years, 123 million. 

[SparzWizard]

Last thing I need is White testing free agency and going to an Eastern rival like the Bucks, Knicks, or 76ers. Hope the C's make some type of reasonable offer to keep him

[Moranis]

Jrue Holiday signed for 4 years, 135 million. If you are Derrick White are you going to sign for less than that?

[ozgod]

Last thing I need is White testing free agency and going to an Eastern rival like the Bucks, Knicks, or 76ers. Hope the C's make some type of reasonable offer to keep him

I think it's a given he will be offered the $123m/$128m figure that Jambr and Celtics2021 mentioned. The question is more, if Derrick decides to reject a $123m/$128m ($32m/yr) extension and test free agency, at what point will the Celtics considering an offer to be no longer reasonable? What if someone offers him $30m? Does Brad match it? What about $40m? $50m? There's no accounting how stupid some GMs are. Since we can match any offer he gets, as Roy clarified...at what point do we say too much and stop matching? Given we would have a guy making $65m, another at $60m, a couple in the $30m not to mention all the riffraff we need to fill out the team?

Even if he took a big discount and signed his extension we would still be an over the second apron team with a lot of long term contracts locked in and suffering roster restrictions unable to aggregate salaries in trade or use our MLE to fill out the roster. Right now we're the "heads" side of the second apron coin, we're over the second apron but our team is working. The "tail" side of that is the Phoenix Suns  .

That's what will be on Brad's mind first and foremost. How to be over the second apron but not turn into the Phoenix Suns.

[Birdman]

I feel like the team chose Jrue over Derrick.  The ridiculous contract they gave Jrue makes it very hard to envision them keeping Derrick.

true! Probably why they kept Payton..I would gave White the extension before Jru because of age first of all plus great defense for a PG

[jambr380]

I would take the money if I were D White. Not gambling. He isn't good enough to gamble. He has a down year shooting wise, say 33% from three, nobody is giving him that money. They are not paying a 15ppg 5apg $225mil.

He needs to be perfect to get that type of money. At 31 years old, he is not in any rebuilding team's plans. Only win-now teams. So smaller market to work with as well.

Not worth it. Not worth the risk of a down year shooting wise. After all, his last 2 years are the only good shooting years of his entire career. Not worth if he gets hurt.

Nope. Take the money. Take the money.

I remember last year before the extension deadline White essentially saying he was hoping they could get an extension done. It would have only been for 3 years and it would have been slightly less than what he could get now.

I understand everybody is looking at the $34M/yr that Jrue just extended for, but KP just extended for $30M/yr. I think it's fair to say they are all a similar caliber of player, even though we as Celtics fans probably value White just a tick higher.

Anyway, I generally agree with you Who. It's a lot of money and White is not a definite star player. He is very comfortable in Boston and that seems to matter to him. Look at how he performed when we got him in 2022 - it was not great. I'm not sure he wants to transition to a new likely much worse team for slightly more money. He is beloved here and that might not be the case if he moves on.

[Roy H.]

I feel like the team chose Jrue over Derrick.  The ridiculous contract they gave Jrue makes it very hard to envision them keeping Derrick.

true! Probably why they kept Payton..I would gave White the extension before Jru because of age first of all plus great defense for a PG

We had to decide on Jrue first.  He could hit free agency this summer.  We can't even offer White a market-value deal until 2025.

I guess we could have let Jrue walk, played short-handed next year, and then hope White stayed.  But, that seems like a bad decision to me.

[ozgod]

As an intellectual exercise let's say we paid everyone, which we can because they are all our players we have Bird rights to. Blew through the salary cap, the luxury tax, and the 2nd apron. Say we paid JT his 5 year supermax, matched an offer for $50m a year for 4 years for Derrick, paid Sam $10m and paid Al $5m, and everyone on the roster vet min. Say we got rid of Svi, JD and Drew Peterson. Our hope would be that everyone keeps performing.



So we would have 14 players on the roster before signing a couple of two-ways as bench fodder, this roster would cost us $268m (plus $4m in cap holds for Blake and Kabengele). We would be $113m over the salary cap, $84m over the luxury tax so based on my calculation, using standard luxury tax rate starting at $1.25 for the first $6m we are over the tax, increasing by 50c for every $6m we are over, topping off at $8.25 for the last $6m of our $84m, we would pay a total of $414m in tax in 2025-26. And this is using standard tax rates...the repeater tax rates are higher. So our roster would cost Wyc $682m. (Celtics2021 and Jambr and other CBA experts are welcome to see if I did the calculations right, based on being $84m over the tax and using a tax bracket of $6m and the tax rates based on the CBA at https://nbpa.com/cba page 184).

Let's assume we did it. We would then be locked in to this team for at least a few years, since we can only trade like for like and can't aggregate, and the shortest major contract would be KP's which would run to 2026-27. How long would this be sustainable? Would Wyc be ok with this?

[ozgod]

I feel like the team chose Jrue over Derrick.  The ridiculous contract they gave Jrue makes it very hard to envision them keeping Derrick.

true! Probably why they kept Payton..I would gave White the extension before Jru because of age first of all plus great defense for a PG

We had to decide on Jrue first.  He could hit free agency this summer.  We can't even offer White a market-value deal until 2025.

I guess we could have let Jrue walk, played short-handed next year, and then hope White stayed.  But, that seems like a bad decision to me.

I think they would have had to sign Jrue even if it's an overpay, because then you have an asset you can trade rather than have nothing and be unable to replace him like for like because we would still be over the cap. Same deal as Jaylen.

[Roy H.]

My totally wild guess:  Wyc wants to pull a "John Henry".  If we win at least one championship, he can say that he did what he could to bring two championships to Boston.  He can then start to trade off some salary, or let guys walk.

Major kudos to him for bankrolling this team.