New pickup basketball question

[Steve Weinman]

Enjoyed the discussion Dons started about a month ago back, and I've got a question of my own: How do you deal with the guy in a pick-up game who isn't remotely interested in playing hard?

A bit of background: I'm to some extent a nut, and I'm cognizant of it -- every game is Game 7 to me in the sense that I'm going to put just about everything I have into every game I play.  It's in my nature to maintain that it's winning that is particularly fun about playing ball, so priority number one in every game I play is winning.  That said, I don't purport to be some star -- or anything of the like.  I'm your typical former high school player who is a decent pickup player and just loves playing pick-up because I love the game of basketball.  I've played in a few games where I was the best player on the floor, a few games where I was the worst, and a whole lot of games where I was usually somewhere in the middle (usually the third or fourth option offensively on a lot of teams, and I love playing D).  I make up for not having overwhelming size by being fairly slow  , and it's always required everything I have on every play to even have a shot.  So I'm the last person whose going to flip out at someone whose playing hard and making good decisions but is simply in over his head -- I've been in that spot more times than I'd care to admit.

But what I can't tolerate is the guy who completely short-circuits your team (and sometimes the spirit of the game overall) by giving absolutely nothing (usually, this is more evident on the defensive end, but I'm not thrilled either way) -- especially a dude with little athletic talent in the first place.  This is the guy who breaks up a 1-on-none break by pulling up at the foul line to fire an underhand fling off the top of the backboard.  The guy who doesn't cross halfcourt to come back on defense too many times all game, and when he does, he stands around, misses defensive assignments and points to guys who aren't being covered -- because the folks guarding those guys are rotating over to help on his man.  Chances are, if you have one of these guys and the other team doesn't, you're going to score less points than the other team.  This isn't good.

So what's the best way to deal with this sort of thing?  To me, it's one thing in a game with your friends and folks who all know each other messing around.  But in a public game where you don't necessarily know the guys involved (at a park or an open run at a gym, for instance), it seems extremely discourteous to the game and those involved with it, and that's what I'm talking about here.  So what's the best way to deal with this?  In the past few weeks, I've seen this a few times at my gym.  On one occasion, the guy was told by his own team to get off the court, promised to play harder and stayed in the game.  In another, in a rare loss of temper, I wound up yelling at someone for his lackadaisical attitude defensively (the guy had just mouthed off at me about leaving my man open...which was odd because I'd been busy preventing a lay-up from his while he stood around), and I was subsequently given the "Stop taking yourself so seriously...this isn't the NBA" spiel.  So I'm curious as to what the board thinks of these sorts of players.  I realize that I'm nuttier about winning than some are, but I'd have no problem with a team that busts its gut all game and loses to a better team -- it's happened a million teams, you shake hands and walk away.  But I'm a big believer that the 'guy who doesn't play hard at all' is the worst sort of game-ruiner.  Thoughts?

-sw

[dark_lord]

pull him aside and tell him how u feel. reinforce it with positive reinforcement so he will want to try harder, not feel rejected.

if that doesnt work, the other end of the spectrum is to call the guy out.

last case scenario, freeze him out.

[bigtyc55]

dont pick him, or when you shoot free throws or something for picking teams and he makes it, miss it on your next try so you can avoid him and torch him on the offensive end, or just throw him a jonathon papelbon 98 mph chest pass at his face and wake him up a little

[jay_jay54]

freeze him out .

[Steve Weinman]

The other part of this that I meant to bring up in my OP is that there are certainly times when the issue of 'next' and sitting comes up.  Whether or not you're all that gung-ho about winning, it seems definitively unacceptable to me to create a situation in which your teammates are going to end up having to go off the court following a loss and wait at least a game (if not two or three, depending how many people/courts are in your gym/park that day).  No matter how much you want to win, I would have to imagine that there is at least a shared desire to play...otherwise why come down at all?

Then again, as I mentioned above, I really just don't get the point of mailing it in during a pick-up game.  Nobody's forcing these guys to play...if you're not going to care at all, why bother?

Sorry for the venting...this is just an issue that's certainly frustrated me at times on the court...wanted to see if the sentiment was shared.

-sw

[guava_wrench]

Are you playing on a court where the person who has next gets to pick his team, or on a shoot FT for next court?

The best options is playing on a 'next' court where you know all the regulars. In a court like that, a bad player won't get picked up after the first time. In a FT game there's not much you can do but not give him the ball.

I think you need to focus on yourself more. If your teammate kills your team, there's not much you can do but make the most of the game and possible find a better court to play on in the future. If you live in a suburb where there aren't many options, move.

Find a game where people cam to play, not just to exercise.

[BASSTHUMPER]

scrubs like that are on every black top in america...not much u can do bout..

[Steve Weinman]

scrubs like that are on every black top in america...not much u can do bout..

Yeah, Bass, I hear ya...perhaps just venting I guess, but I remain eternally confused by what the objective of coming to voluntarily 'play' in a pick-up game but not really play at all is...just boggles my mind.

-sw

[celticmaestro]

pull him aside and tell him how u feel. reinforce it with positive reinforcement so he will want to try harder, not feel rejected.

if that doesnt work, the other end of the spectrum is to call the guy out.

last case scenario, freeze him out.

exactly what i do.

if, after 2 chances he's not pulling his weight, get the job done without him.

[Mother]

Cable Guy!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQvt1JFFHxg

[BASSTHUMPER]

jimmy balled in that movie tho...the dunk off dudes back and breakin the backboard is classic....

[Donoghus]

This pretty much builds off what a few others said.

First thing I'd say is offer some constructive criticism.  Don't yell at the guy or anything but say something like "move away from the top of the key and slide over to the wing" or something.  Say it clears things up for everyone.  If they continue to be a hinderance to play and are clearly just not on the same page as everyone else, then the "freeze out" becomes the viable option here.  It's unfortunate but sometimes that's the only way to get the point across that the rest of you are trying to win and they're not helping.

[jay_jay54]

The other part of this that I meant to bring up in my OP is that there are certainly times when the issue of 'next' and sitting comes up.  Whether or not you're all that gung-ho about winning, it seems definitively unacceptable to me to create a situation in which your teammates are going to end up having to go off the court following a loss and wait at least a game (if not two or three, depending how many people/courts are in your gym/park that day).  No matter how much you want to win, I would have to imagine that there is at least a shared desire to play...otherwise why come down at all?

Then again, as I mentioned above, I really just don't get the point of mailing it in during a pick-up game.  Nobody's forcing these guys to play...if you're not going to care at all, why bother?

Sorry for the venting...this is just an issue that's certainly frustrated me at times on the court...wanted to see if the sentiment was shared.

-sw

I gave it some more thought overnight,and remembered back some days i had on the blacktop,and Y pickup games,a lot of the time,we always had that 1,after awhile,he was always last resort to be picked,,but after i thought on it,those guys usually play for the bonding experience i think,so they can go home,and be in a conversation about the game of basketball with others who dont see him/her play.Ive known a few in my day,and its about the being with the guys more than if he win or lose.

[shookones99]

Well where do you usually play?  I couldn't agree more about that lazy type of player.  I cant stand them.  For me every time I go down to one of the parks near my house I pretty much always have to play with at least one of those guys.  But thats why I dont really go down to the park anymore.  I play at various Harvard gyms.  Pretty much every time I go down there a 5 on 5 is going on and everyone is playing hard.  Harvard students tend to be pretty competitive and they all want to contribute.  Very rarely is their a slacker.  Some of them may be lacking in talent but never in huslte.

[Steve Weinman]

Well where do you usually play?  I couldn't agree more about that lazy type of player.  I cant stand them.  For me every time I go down to one of the parks near my house I pretty much always have to play with at least one of those guys.  But thats why I dont really go down to the park anymore.  I play at various Harvard gyms.  Pretty much every time I go down there a 5 on 5 is going on and everyone is playing hard.  Harvard students tend to be pretty competitive and they all want to contribute.  Very rarely is their a slacker.  Some of them may be lacking in talent but never in huslte.

I'm right with ya, shookones -- "lacking in talent but never in hustle" is fine by me.  I'm not asking anyone to be MJ...because I'm certainly the furthest thing from that.  Just to play as though you care.

When I'm in the Midwest, I play at a nearby recreation complex that has a membership of several thousand, and there are generally games going on from the mid-afternoon up close to closing time at midnight.  The great part is that there is a wide scope of player age and ability, and it's given me a chance to play in a myriad of different sorts of games.  The competition level is generally reasonably high for pick-up, and it's usually a great experience.  At the same time, more people means more chance for one of these slacker types to be involved in a game, and all it takes is one sometimes to completely short-circuit either your team or the value of the game.  Home in New York, I run with whoever I can find at the parks -- usually a great thing, but since I'm a suburban guy, my experience has mirrored yours in the parks -- it's usually lower-competition, and there's more of a chance of the screw-around guy.

Thanks again to all who have taken the time to respond so far.  Always glad to get the community's perspective.

-sw