Who Would You Trade Tatum for Right Now?

[GreenFaith1819]

I wouldn't trade Tatum but Jokic would be among my choices IF I did..

Dude thoroughly impressed me when we played them earlier this year...he is an offensive juggernaut BUT he is better defensively than I thought...

There was one play where Kemba had the ball, Jokic was in front of him, Kemba tried to shake him, drove to the basket but Jokic stayed in front of him and actually blocked the shot..

He won't make any Defensive teams but I'd trust him on just about anyone to not get killed.

He is deceptively better defensively than I thought. Offense / rebounding / passing is simply elite.

[Monkhouse]

I wouldn't trade Tatum but Jokic would be among my choices IF I did..

Dude thoroughly impressed me when we played them earlier this year...he is an offensive juggernaut BUT he is better defensively than I thought...

There was one play where Kemba had the ball, Jokic was in front of him, Kemba tried to shake him, drove to the basket but Jokic stayed in front of him and actually blocked the shot..

He won't make any Defensive teams but I'd trust him on just about anyone to not get killed.

He is deceptively better defensively than I thought. Offense / rebounding / passing is simply elite.

Jokic may not be flashy on the defensive end, but it irks me how people predominantly assume he's awful on that end.

Just not true at all, the false narrative if you're not All Defense, you automatically get slotted in the same spot as other terrible defenders. Jokic's problem is his conditioning, so I hope he shapes up to stay healthy. (No pun intended.)

[dannyboy35]

I wouldn't trade Tatum but Jokic would be among my choices IF I did..

Dude thoroughly impressed me when we played them earlier this year...he is an offensive juggernaut BUT he is better defensively than I thought...

There was one play where Kemba had the ball, Jokic was in front of him, Kemba tried to shake him, drove to the basket but Jokic stayed in front of him and actually blocked the shot..

He won't make any Defensive teams but I'd trust him on just about anyone to not get killed.

He is deceptively better defensively than I thought. Offense / rebounding / passing is simply elite.

Jokic may not be flashy on the defensive end, but it irks me how people predominantly assume he's awful on that end.

Just not true at all, the false narrative if you're not All Defense, you automatically get slotted in the same spot as other terrible defenders. Jokic's problem is his conditioning, so I hope he shapes up to stay healthy. (No pun intended.)

  Jokic was my preseason mvp pick and I had the Nuggets winning the most games in the league. I obviously underestimated the Bucks (for the 2nd season in a row). I’m always surprised Embiid was viewed the better player, although I know things may have changed and it’s not a universal opinion .
  I just think Jokic brings way more overall. Like you’re saying he’s not atrocious on D. I feel like if Jokic and Embiid were flipped to the other’s team that the Sixers would be better and the Nuggets would be worse.
 

[trickybilly]

It's crazy to think that the extension deadline for Tatum is only a few months away.

I presume he gets the max. Can he negotiate a no-trade clause on a rookie extension?

EDIT: No he can't get that clause. He becomes an extremely valuable trade asset once that extension is signed.

[smokeablount]

Freak, Kawhi, Doncic. No one else. I don't trust Durant's health long-term.

To me, the tough question is Jokic. When you take a guy like AD, the offense has to go to AD. With Jokic, the offense goes through him. Dude can make 18 footers all day, and he may be the best passer in the NBA. Incredible offensive talent, but he'd be a liability the way we play D.

Lebron is too old, Embiid isn't going to all of the sudden not get injured, and guys like Lillard are a big defensive liability.

Ainge was wise to hold onto Tatum. IMO, he's going to be our best player since Bird.

  It looks right now like another one to pile on the list of wrong takes/ predictions by me. One of these times I’ll post the whole ridiculous list so I can be banned for a month. Ha.
  But I said something to the effect of Tatum is Carmelo- lite. He’ll never be Pierce level. He’s not instinctive like a Pierce or say Kevin McHale ( different position of course) where he could react to his opponents body instinctively.
  I still don’t see this with Tatum anywhere close to a Pierce level and he’s still going nuts so I’m thrilled to be wrong. He’s looking amazing.

Maybe in that one way, but overall Tatum has now surpassed all the traditional reasonable comps we've had for him.  I did a bbref player comparison with Tatum's partial age 21 3rd season, Carmelo's age 21 3rd season, PG13's age 22 3rd season, and Pierce's age 22 2nd season. 

If you project Tatum's output through 58 games to maintain through the end of the year, he'd lead all those guys in VORP, Win Shares, WS/48, BPM, OBPM, and have the lowest TOs, highest TS%, EFG%, 3PT%, FT%, Block % and REB%, which is essentially tied.  He has outgrown these comps to PG13, PP and Carmelo.

I'm just not sure who he's graduated to in terms of comps.  He's not good enough for KD and he doesn't play like Lebron or Luka (Luka is also younger).  But I'm open to suggestions of similar players who are better even than first ball HOF guys like Pierce, George and Carmelo.  Anyone got any ideas?

http://bkref.com/tiny/BEIBL

[smokeablount]

I wouldn't trade Tatum but Jokic would be among my choices IF I did..

Dude thoroughly impressed me when we played them earlier this year...he is an offensive juggernaut BUT he is better defensively than I thought...

There was one play where Kemba had the ball, Jokic was in front of him, Kemba tried to shake him, drove to the basket but Jokic stayed in front of him and actually blocked the shot..

He won't make any Defensive teams but I'd trust him on just about anyone to not get killed.

He is deceptively better defensively than I thought. Offense / rebounding / passing is simply elite.

Jokic may not be flashy on the defensive end, but it irks me how people predominantly assume he's awful on that end.

Just not true at all, the false narrative if you're not All Defense, you automatically get slotted in the same spot as other terrible defenders. Jokic's problem is his conditioning, so I hope he shapes up to stay healthy. (No pun intended.)

  Jokic was my preseason mvp pick and I had the Nuggets winning the most games in the league. I obviously underestimated the Bucks (for the 2nd season in a row). I’m always surprised Embiid was viewed the better player, although I know things may have changed and it’s not a universal opinion .
  I just think Jokic brings way more overall. Like you’re saying he’s not atrocious on D. I feel like if Jokic and Embiid were flipped to the other’s team that the Sixers would be better and the Nuggets would be worse.
 

Agree completely.

Jokic is the engine of that Nuggets team, he powers the others and if Embiid replaced him Embiid would still look great, but the productivity of the other rotation players would suffer and the team would be worse.

As for Jokic on the Sixers, he can shoot the 3 and provide spacing so he can play with Simmons. I made a post about that in my lineups for the under 25 team thread.  I also think Simmons can handle fast break engine duties but in the half court Jokic can run the offense and Simmons can cut, crash the boards or operate in the low post or drive the lane when Jokic is out around the 3 point line providing spacing.  I think the connection with Jokic would be much better than the one he has (kinda) with Embiid.

[Somebody]

Don't think most MVP candidates make sense for our long term vision, so it'd be this very short list of guys who we can't get with Tatum:
1. Giannis
2. Doncic

[Somebody]

Freak, Kawhi, Doncic. No one else. I don't trust Durant's health long-term.

To me, the tough question is Jokic. When you take a guy like AD, the offense has to go to AD. With Jokic, the offense goes through him. Dude can make 18 footers all day, and he may be the best passer in the NBA. Incredible offensive talent, but he'd be a liability the way we play D.

Lebron is too old, Embiid isn't going to all of the sudden not get injured, and guys like Lillard are a big defensive liability.

Ainge was wise to hold onto Tatum. IMO, he's going to be our best player since Bird.

It looks right now like another one to pile on the list of wrong takes/ predictions by me. One of these times I’ll post the whole ridiculous list so I can be banned for a month. Ha.
But I said something to the effect of Tatum is Carmelo- lite. He’ll never be Pierce level. He’s not instinctive like a Pierce or say Kevin McHale ( different position of course) where he could react to his opponents body instinctively.
I still don’t see this with Tatum anywhere close to a Pierce level and he’s still going nuts so I’m thrilled to be wrong. He’s looking amazing.

Maybe in that one way, but overall Tatum has now surpassed all the traditional reasonable comps we've had for him.  I did a bbref player comparison with Tatum's partial age 21 3rd season, Carmelo's age 21 3rd season, PG13's age 22 3rd season, and Pierce's age 22 2nd season. 

If you project Tatum's output through 58 games to maintain through the end of the year, he'd lead all those guys in VORP, Win Shares, WS/48, BPM, OBPM, and have the lowest TOs, highest TS%, EFG%, 3PT%, FT%, Block % and REB%, which is essentially tied.  He has outgrown these comps to PG13, PP and Carmelo.

I'm just not sure who he's graduated to in terms of comps.  He's not good enough for KD and he doesn't play like Lebron or Luka (Luka is also younger).  But I'm open to suggestions of similar players who are better even than first ballot HOF guys like Pierce, George and Carmelo.  Anyone got any ideas?

http://bkref.com/tiny/BEIBL

Ah, here are the "lies" you're spreading with the misuse of statistics (there's nothing wrong with statistics itself lol, it's how people use it). You forgot to take factors such as pace and situation of the league into account when you were comparing the non WS/VORP/BPM box stats of Pierce/PG/Melo to Tatum's (although to be fair George's 3rd season was never comparable to Tatum's in the box score), Melo and Pierce are still relatively close to Tatum if you adjust their box stats.

Tatum: 24.6 points per 75 possessions, +0.3% TS, -3.2% TO, 3 assists per 75 possessions
Pierce: 25.8 points per 75 possessions, +4.5% TS, -1,6% TO, 3.15 assists per 75 possessions
George: 18.5 points per 75 possessions, -0.4% TS, +1.5% TO, 4.425 assists per 75 possessions
Carmelo: 27.7 points per 75 possessions, +2.7% TS, -3.3% TO, 2.85 assists per 75 possessions

Note: asissts are pretty bad at measuring a player's ability to create opportunities for his teammates, but I can't find the stats that better capture this ability, eg. box creation.

I do think that his ceiling has outgrown these All-NBA comps though, Pierce/George were a full year older than Tatum at the same age while Melo was a sieve at defence. I'd like to think of his ceiling as the wing version of a more balanced Karl Malone (worse offensively, better defensively, monster at +/- but not a transcendent force) if this hot streak is actually sustainable.

[Jvalin]

Definitely for Giannis, Luka, Jokic, AD (it would have to be a sign and trade).

Probably for KAT, although I get why many of you guys wouldn't do it.

Possibly for SGA, but the Thunder would have to send us additional asset(s). I'm very high on SGA.

Possibly for Kawhi, as long as our medical staff has no concens about his long-term health.

[Sophomore]

Don't think most MVP candidates make sense for our long term vision, so it'd be this very short list of guys who we can't get with Tatum:
1. Giannis
2. Doncic

This ^

[Celtics4ever]

No one, I have grown attached as a fan and he is developing.  I think Luka because he has been a pro so long is developed and I don't think Giannis can improve except getting a jumper.

[Roy H.]

Definitely for Giannis, Luka, Jokic, AD (it would have to be a sign and trade).

Probably for KAT, although I get why many of you guys wouldn't do it.

Possibly for SGA, but the Thunder would have to send us additional asset(s). I'm very high on SGA.

Possibly for Kawhi, as long as our medical staff has no concens about his long-term health.

I would say no to guys who only play one side of the ball.  No to Jokic and KAT.  I’d even be hesitant on Luka, although he may be the exception.

I’m surprised so many are dismissive of AD in this thread, though.

[droopdog7]

Freak, Kawhi, Doncic. No one else. I don't trust Durant's health long-term.

To me, the tough question is Jokic. When you take a guy like AD, the offense has to go to AD. With Jokic, the offense goes through him. Dude can make 18 footers all day, and he may be the best passer in the NBA. Incredible offensive talent, but he'd be a liability the way we play D.

Lebron is too old, Embiid isn't going to all of the sudden not get injured, and guys like Lillard are a big defensive liability.

Ainge was wise to hold onto Tatum. IMO, he's going to be our best player since Bird.

  It looks right now like another one to pile on the list of wrong takes/ predictions by me. One of these times I’ll post the whole ridiculous list so I can be banned for a month. Ha.
  But I said something to the effect of Tatum is Carmelo- lite. He’ll never be Pierce level. He’s not instinctive like a Pierce or say Kevin McHale ( different position of course) where he could react to his opponents body instinctively.
  I still don’t see this with Tatum anywhere close to a Pierce level and he’s still going nuts so I’m thrilled to be wrong. He’s looking amazing.

Maybe in that one way, but overall Tatum has now surpassed all the traditional reasonable comps we've had for him.  I did a bbref player comparison with Tatum's partial age 21 3rd season, Carmelo's age 21 3rd season, PG13's age 22 3rd season, and Pierce's age 22 2nd season. 

If you project Tatum's output through 58 games to maintain through the end of the year, he'd lead all those guys in VORP, Win Shares, WS/48, BPM, OBPM, and have the lowest TOs, highest TS%, EFG%, 3PT%, FT%, Block % and REB%, which is essentially tied.  He has outgrown these comps to PG13, PP and Carmelo.

I'm just not sure who he's graduated to in terms of comps.  He's not good enough for KD and he doesn't play like Lebron or Luka (Luka is also younger).  But I'm open to suggestions of similar players who are better even than first ball HOF guys like Pierce, George and Carmelo.  Anyone got any ideas?

http://bkref.com/tiny/BEIBL

I still think it’s Carmelo or KD lite.  Tatum doesn’t look to be the all around playmaker type and those two are the closest in terms of high points and low assists.  Kobe, as selfish as people want to call him was relatively high assists.

And I wouldn’t use the idea that Tatum has surpassed then.  One can’t simply assume some linear ascension and we don’t the know.  Carmelo peak could still be higher.

[RJD1974]

Definitely for Giannis, Luka, Jokic, AD (it would have to be a sign and trade).

Probably for KAT, although I get why many of you guys wouldn't do it.

Possibly for SGA, but the Thunder would have to send us additional asset(s). I'm very high on SGA.

Possibly for Kawhi, as long as our medical staff has no concens about his long-term health.

I would say no to guys who only play one side of the ball.  No to Jokic and KAT.  I’d even be hesitant on Luka, although he may be the exception.

I’m surprised so many are dismissive of AD in this thread, though.

I think that's mainly because AD has made it very clear he wants nothing to do with Boston, which matters a lot, even in a hypothetical argument where factors such as that maybe shouldn't matter.

[Vermont Green]

Interesting question.  I would only trade him for someone young so even though right now they are better players, I would not trade him for say Harden, Leonard, LeBron.

I would also not trade him for another young wing.  Tatum is here and he is as good as any other young wing in my mind so there would be no reason to trade him.  That includes Luka Doncic.  He seems like a great player but so is Tatum.  Not enough to potentially gain for the risk.

That leaves young, top notch bigs.  Certainly Davis and Giannis, Jokic I am not so sure.  Towns probably.  It is not so much that I think all of these bigs are better than Tatum, it is just that we have other wings.  Trading a top notch young wing for a top notch young big helps us where we need the most help and hurts us where we have the most other talent.

I do not expect that there will be a trade of Tatum in any case.