Doc Is Not a Good Coach / Why Big Baby in OT (merged)

[celts55]

Maybe this is slightly off topic, but what happened to the offensive/defensive substatutions at the ean of games? It seems to me that "back in the day" most teams subed 2 or 3 players in and out for offense or defense. I don't really see that much anymore, but i mostly just watch the Celtics. Is it just Doc, or is this not employed in the league anymore? It appeared to me there were a few times, coming out of time outs, that Doc could have brought in some other scorers instead of leaving Davis, Perk and Rondo all in.
I'm not going to sit here and Knock the guy, I'm just wondering what happen to that aspect of the game. It was almost like a chess match.  

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Pierce looked like crap on offense and he basically choked in the clutch at the free throw line, I know he guarded Kobe pretty good, but maybe hes to blame? hes my favorite player, but lets get real, something just wasnt right with him last night.
If the argument is Powe should've been in the game instead of Baby, youre wrong...yes baby shouldnt have been shooting those shots, but for whatever reason the team kept giving him the ball to shoot it with the shot clock winding down, something that was frustrating all night was Pierce not being aggressive enough and KG was not in the game, KG fouled out in 33 minutes, what is he Patrick O Bryant? I knew we were gonna lose without KG in ot...cmon we needed some luck once KG fouled out...we beat the lakers by 39 last time they were in boston...they werent going to just roll over this time...theyre tough guys in february

[winsomme]

for all of you that like to hand each other tommy points...

wow...do you feel better...

it was obvious the game was mismanaged...

for all of you who keep saying that davis plays better D...he's a better shooter...

are you for real...

fact #1: powe is shooting 50% & 4.1 rebounds in 15.3 minutes

fact #2: davis is shooting 40.6% & 3.5 rebounds in 18 minutes

i know we have number of hall of fame coaches here but the numbers don't lie...

let's see you spin that..

what is obvious is that powe and davis are both inconsistent...

it is only only logical and common sense to go with the one who is playing better...

you don't need to be a brain surgeon or rocket scientist to figure that out...

what that underscores is that we need a big man...no doubt...

you see what you get with powe and davis...

there is not much more upside...

i like both of them personally...

and i like them as a 2-headed monster off the bench...

Reggie was questioning that just as the first play began without and you know what happened? BBD came up with a huge rebound...

Doc went to BBD because he has been hitting that little 16 footer and the LAkers were leaving that open to pack the lane. I don't see how Powe (strategy-wise) would have been the clearly better call there.

where was Powe going to get his shots with the lane packed so tightly?

[BudweiserCeltic]

If Doc had put Powe instead of Davis when Garnett went out, and we still lost, people here would be complaining on how poorly spaced that floor was and that Doc was a moron for going with the hot hand instead of the tactically correct player that would improve our spacing so that our stars could work their magic down the stretch.

[rutzan]

saying davis is a better shooter than powe is liking asking do you prefer a rotten egg or a rotten banana...

neither one is a good shooter...

even more reason to go with the one who is playing better...

coaches put players in postions where they can succeed ala belichik...

you don't put them in a position where they cannot succeed...

you just ask them to play within their own game...

baby davis is not a good outside shooter...period...

it was unfair to put him in that situation...

and we should have found a way to keep eddie in the game

sasha and farmar could not guard eddie'e jock strap...

i can't believe people still act like we had no choice...

davis plays better D...

davis is a better shooter...

blah blah blah

people act like we only had one choice last night

and we were forced into it...

we did have a choice on who to play last night

our bench will determine how far we go...

either we need to add a big man

or manage the bench better

[winsomme]

If Doc had put Powe instead of Davis when Garnett went out, and we still lost, people here would be complaining on how poorly spaced that floor was and that Doc was a moron for going with the hot hand instead of the tactically correct player that would improve our spacing so that our stars could work their magic down the stretch.

yup. that's why, for me, it's all about looking at our personnel as we move forward. we need a little more versatility on our bench for just these types of happenings.

wouldn't Pose have been perfect there? he could have guarded Lamar on defense and spread the floor on offense.

no way that LA is going to leave a shooter like Pose wide open on those final possessions.

[Tr1boy]

Davis has been hitting the open shot but remember he is still like a rookie and can't hit those shots in clutch situations yet.

Powe had the hot hand and you leave him out there

[rutzan]

kudos...reggie did point that out right before baby got the rebound...

but how do we know that powe would not have done the same thing...

people keep acting like nothing would have happened if powe was out there...

what about hustle plays and intangibles...

it's crazy to me that people keep ascertaining that powe would have done nothing out there because of spacing...he's not a good shooter...blah blah blah...

he was playing great and when someone is hot they have a knack for being in the right place at the right time...having a nose for the ball...

why keep rolling the dice because of supposed matchups when someone is not playing good...

and...you find a way to keep eddie out there...

i know...here we go again..matchups...who are you going to take out rondo?

[Redz]

fact #1: powe is shooting 50% & 4.1 rebounds in 15.3 minutes

fact #2: davis is shooting 40.6% & 3.5 rebounds in 18 minutes

Since Jan.1

GP:  Powe 18  Baby 18
PTS: Powe 4.2 Baby 7.2
FG%: Powe .434 Baby .454
FT%: Powe .698 Baby .811
RPG: Powe 4.6 Baby 4.3
MIN: Powe 15.0 Baby 20.9

The difference in FG% is a bit more shocking when you think of the range of Powe's shots.  He's missing shots from inside the paint.  There's no way Leon should shoot that low a percentage for any stretch.  He shot 57% from the field last year, and is still at 50% for this season despite his recent dropoff.

Last night was the best game Leon has played in quite some time, and I'm happy to see it, but Big Baby has been outplaying him for a while now.  Powe has shown propensity to look lost out there. Baby has shown steady improvement and has been attacking loose balls and rebounds on both sides of the floor.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Davis has been hitting the open shot but remember he is still like a rookie and can't hit those shots in clutch situations yet.

Powe had the hot hand and you leave him out there

Powe cant spread the floor, Powe cant create his own shot or pass the ball...Powe didnt have a hot hand, he was hustling and was putting back layups all night, powe cant guard Lamar odom or Pau gasol, neither can baby, but clearly better than leon...also leon has been a scrub lately
the fact is KG fouled out and we needed a big man to spread the floor, which leon can not do, and BBD did hit a big shot to put us up 1 by the way...the main factor here is we need a better option than Big baby if KG fouls out, that is a gameplan alot of teams are going to try and do, foul out KG to try and get to our short, inexperienced big men

[rutzan]

that is exactly my point...

you just made my point...

davis was not playing good until kg got in his face...

they are both inconsistent...

you go with the one who is playing better...

that is how you utilize the 2-headed monster of powe & davis...

not matchups...

you play the one that is playing better...

it's that simple...

forget matchups...

we dictate the matchups...

not the other way around...

when someone shoots 1 for 8...

you don't put him in a position like that...

it was unfair to baby davis...

that is coaching

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

BBD has made those shots in the recent 12 game streak...the team was trusting him to make them last night, and overtrusting him at that...PP should not be defferring to big baby in the 4th quarter/OT

[winsomme]

kudos...reggie did point that out right before baby got the rebound...

but how do we know that powe would not have done the same thing...

people keep acting like nothing would have happened if powe was out there...

what about hustle plays and intangibles...

it's crazy to me that people keep ascertaining that powe would have done nothing out there because of spacing...he's not a good shooter...blah blah blah...

he was playing great and when someone is hot they have a knack for being in the right place at the right time...having a nose for the ball...

why keep rolling the dice because of supposed matchups when someone is not playing good...

and...you find a way to keep eddie out there...

i know...here we go again..matchups...who are you going to take out rondo?

rut, nobody can say what would have happened if Powe came in instead of BBD....i'm just pointing out that there was a logic to it that is sound based on the options available.

like someone else pointed out, if Doc put Powe in and we lost, then there would be a whole host of posts about how Doc was an idiot for not putting in BBD because he has been hitting that 16 footer of late....

[winsomme]

fact #1: powe is shooting 50% & 4.1 rebounds in 15.3 minutes

fact #2: davis is shooting 40.6% & 3.5 rebounds in 18 minutes

Since Jan.1

GP:  Powe 18  Baby 18
PTS: Powe 4.2 Baby 7.2
FG%: Powe .434 Baby .454
FT%: Powe .698 Baby .811
RPG: Powe 4.6 Baby 4.3
MIN: Powe 15.0 Baby 20.9

The difference in FG% is a bit more shocking when you think of the range of Powe's shots.  He's missing shots from inside the paint.  There's no way Leon should shoot that low a percentage for any stretch.  He shot 57% from the field last year, and is still at 50% for this season despite his recent dropoff.

Last night was the best game Leon has played in quite some time, and I'm happy to see it, but Big Baby has been outplaying him for a while now.  Powe has shown propensity to look lost out there. Baby has shown steady improvement and has been attacking loose balls and rebounds on both sides of the floor.

thanks for the stats Redz, but for me it still is not a "who is playing better" question.

I know that the Powe v. BBD debate is a long-standing one, but i think it is more complicated because they do different things - not hugely different, but different enough that it really does come down to matchups and schemes, etc...

BBD has been developing the shot that was being left open by LA and that is why he was in there....would i rather have had Pose in there? sure. but that's not an option this year.

the BBD sub didn't really work because we lost the game, but i don't see the argument behind it being an obvious coaching mistake.

FT shooting (thanks for the stat) is another reason...

[rutzan]

i don't think a lot of people would have complained about baby davis being pulled for powe...

it was obvious baby davis was not having a good game...

the thing that really gets me is that people act like leon has not ever hit a 15 foot jumper in his life...

you can either look at the whole season...

or the last 10 games...

or the last game...

or the last quarter...

you can spin it any way you want...

that is building the straw man argument...

but the fact is that powe was playing better than davis last night...

if your going to roll the dice...

i go with what is hot...

not looking at a sample size from the last week or last month or even the whole year

and davis is shooting for 40% for the year...

i don't see a whole lot of jump shots in that 40%...