"NBA commissioner Adam Silver’s 2014" raise the the age of rookies (from SI)

[celtic -_- pride]

Lame idea. Competent organizations gm's don't need this rule. Financially it is dumb too. The nba doesn't owe anything to the NCAA so who cares if systems are falling apart. Colleges make enough money as it is. You draft a guy on potential hoping he will improve to be great. If he doesn't have the skills then it is up to the coaching staff to develop their talent. If players are being held in college to polish their game or expose it they should be paid to do so. Seems all very one sided to me and it's the owners side. If the players union has a say which I hope they do, I hope they get this motion dismissed

[pearljammer10]

WD they can only play NBA basketball IF an organization decides they want to give them a job. If an organization wants to give them a job they should be able to accept it if they want to.

And if they are allowed, NBA teams will have to take the gamble that they work out based on them playing in high school.


How does that help the NBA?  How does that help the teams?  How does that help the fans?



I don't care if the NBA dreaming players have to wait two or more season to get there as long as they are better trained when they get there.   Where there is actual pressure on them to improve their craft.  Where over hyped 18 year old drop from a top 5 pick to the 2nd round because teams get to actually scout them for a long period of time against a higher level talent. 


I just don't see the downside for the fans.

Well instead of looking at the downside for the fans, look at the downside for the players.

Exactly. Any NBA rookie contract can mean the world to some of these guys, and I don't like the plantation mentality of forcing them to work without pay in the college system for years.

What the commish might do is some sort of contract that eases teams playing them in the d-league for their first year or two. Then they can be paid what their market value is, but teams don't have to put them out as an NBA product before their ready.

So teachers, doctors, lawyers are "forced" to not only work without pay in college but they have to pay boats loads of money for their training. Most of these NBA eligible athletes are already getting a free ride scholarship. A rookie contract might mean the world to them but they shouldn't just be given a rookie contract, they should have to prove they are ready to handle NBA level of work.

I agree with Phosita

I wouldn't mind a rule that said teams can draft guys before they are, let's say, 20, but they can't play in the NBA until they are that old.

That way, teams can stash the guy overseas or play them in the D-League.

I don't mind young players getting paid and actually learning the pro game rather than doing their time of indentured servitude in the NCAA.  But the game would be better at all levels if the guys who come into the league have matured (in a number of ways) a bit before getting there.

If you arent going to put a rule on how many years a student has to stay in college there should at least be an NBA league minimum and if they don't meet the age requirement they can stay in school or play in a teams D-League affiliate.

Or to a crazier extent, (not sure if I would agree with it)but rookies could are required to play at least one full year in the D-League upon being drafted.

[Moranis]

i really hate the stipulations regarding age.  i firmly believe that any 18 yr old that has the talent should be eligible.  reason being, if a team is willing to draft them, it should be their right.  it is a gamble. if it works, great for the team.  if it doesn't, then the team has to live with the consequences.

Why? 

Other professions have age attached to it. 


Other professions make you go somewhere else to receive training. 




This only helps the overhyped, will never work on his game, let me collect that paycheck player. 



The great ones will still come to the league.  They will still have long careers. 



And there will still be the exact same numbers of jobs for players in the league, but instead of some overhyped guy taking a spot, someone who is a hard worker that can help a team at the end of the bench will have that job.

No non-sports league has a minimum age outside professions which serve alcohol and then the age is only for the serving of said alcohol.

[wdleehi]

i really hate the stipulations regarding age.  i firmly believe that any 18 yr old that has the talent should be eligible.  reason being, if a team is willing to draft them, it should be their right.  it is a gamble. if it works, great for the team.  if it doesn't, then the team has to live with the consequences.

Why? 

Other professions have age attached to it. 


Other professions make you go somewhere else to receive training. 




This only helps the overhyped, will never work on his game, let me collect that paycheck player. 



The great ones will still come to the league.  They will still have long careers. 



And there will still be the exact same numbers of jobs for players in the league, but instead of some overhyped guy taking a spot, someone who is a hard worker that can help a team at the end of the bench will have that job.

No non-sports league has a minimum age outside professions which serve alcohol and then the age is only for the serving of said alcohol.

President of the United States.

[Moranis]

i really hate the stipulations regarding age.  i firmly believe that any 18 yr old that has the talent should be eligible.  reason being, if a team is willing to draft them, it should be their right.  it is a gamble. if it works, great for the team.  if it doesn't, then the team has to live with the consequences.

Why? 

Other professions have age attached to it. 


Other professions make you go somewhere else to receive training. 




This only helps the overhyped, will never work on his game, let me collect that paycheck player. 



The great ones will still come to the league.  They will still have long careers. 



And there will still be the exact same numbers of jobs for players in the league, but instead of some overhyped guy taking a spot, someone who is a hard worker that can help a team at the end of the bench will have that job.

No non-sports league has a minimum age outside professions which serve alcohol and then the age is only for the serving of said alcohol.

President of the United States.

So you went to the laws (which is alcohol as well).  There are also minimum age laws as well.

Where is the law on a NBA minimum age?

[Celtics18]

Kevin Garnett
Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
Tracy McGrady
Amare Stoudemire
Tyson Chandler
Rashard Lewis
Al Jefferson
Josh Smith
Jermaine O'Neal
Dorell Wright
Kendrick Perkins
Al Harrington
Deshawn Stevenson
Travis Outlaw
Shaun Livingston
Martell Webster
Andrew Bynum
Gerald Green
CJ Miles
Monta Ellis
Andray Blatche
Amir Johnson

These are some of the successful NBA players who were drafted right out of high school between 1995 and 2005.  A very brief glance at draft history seems to suggest that the success rate for those drafted right out of high school is actually better than those who went to college overall relative to draft position.

There are clearly some bona fide superstars (James, Bryant, Garnett, McGrady, Howard) on that list, as well as some players who have turned into solid, good career role players (A. Johnson, Perk, Dorell Wright, Al Harrington) and some who fall somewhere in between (Monta Ellis, Tyson Chandler, Al Jefferson, Rashard Lewis, Amare Stoudemire). 

Another thing that strikes me about that list is that (other than Kobe's rape case), I can't think of any significant off the court problems from any of those straight from high school players.  For the most part, they seem like they have been good pros and good citizens. 

Sure, some of the players who were drafted at eighteen years of age have taken a bit longer to mature into professionals than others who went to college as basketball apprentices, but this is why I believe a full thirty team development league will be essential for the league moving forward. 

The idea that the owners and GMs of NBA teams can be completely safe guarded from making mistakes in drafting players is completely ludicrous to me.  There is no draft system that can ensure that.  Nor, in my opinion, should there be. 

If the NBA had a fully developed development league in place, I can't see any reason why teams shouldn't be allowed to draft players that have the promise and the talent to potentially be good professional basketball players onto their NBA squads. 

I'm very disappointed that one of the new commissioner's goals is to re-raise the age limit for NBA players.  I'd much rather hear that developing the D-League is a primary goal. 

[wdleehi]

Kevin Garnett
Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
Tracy McGrady
Amare Stoudemire
Tyson Chandler
Rashard Lewis
Al Jefferson
Josh Smith
Jermaine O'Neal
Dorell Wright
Kendrick Perkins
Al Harrington
Deshawn Stevenson
Travis Outlaw
Shaun Livingston
Martell Webster
Andrew Bynum
Gerald Green
CJ Miles
Monta Ellis
Andray Blatche
Amir Johnson

These are some of the successful NBA players who were drafted right out of high school between 1995 and 2005.  A very brief glance at draft history seems to suggest that the success rate for those drafted right out of high school is actually better than those who went to college overall relative to draft position.

There are clearly some bona fide superstars (James, Bryant, Garnett, McGrady, Howard) on that list, as well as some players who have turned into solid, good career role players (A. Johnson, Perk, Dorell Wright, Al Harrington) and some who fall somewhere in between (Monta Ellis, Tyson Chandler, Al Jefferson, Rashard Lewis, Amare Stoudemire). 

Another thing that strikes me about that list is that (other than Kobe's rape case), I can't think of any significant off the court problems from any of those straight from high school players.  For the most part, they seem like they have been good pros and good citizens. 

Sure, some of the players who were drafted at eighteen years of age have taken a bit longer to mature into professionals than others who went to college as basketball apprentices, but this is why I believe a full thirty team development league will be essential for the league moving forward. 

The idea that the owners and GMs of NBA teams can be completely safe guarded from making mistakes in drafting players is completely ludicrous to me.  There is no draft system that can ensure that.  Nor, in my opinion, should there be. 

If the NBA had a fully developed development league in place, I can't see any reason why teams shouldn't be allowed to draft players that have the promise and the talent to potentially be good professional basketball players onto their NBA squads. 

I'm very disappointed that one of the new commissioner's goals is to re-raise the age limit for NBA players.  I'd much rather hear that developing the D-League is a primary goal.

Which one of them would not have been drafted if he had to wait two years?

How many would have been drafted higher?  How many lower?

[Celtics18]

Kevin Garnett
Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
Tracy McGrady
Amare Stoudemire
Tyson Chandler
Rashard Lewis
Al Jefferson
Josh Smith
Jermaine O'Neal
Dorell Wright
Kendrick Perkins
Al Harrington
Deshawn Stevenson
Travis Outlaw
Shaun Livingston
Martell Webster
Andrew Bynum
Gerald Green
CJ Miles
Monta Ellis
Andray Blatche
Amir Johnson

These are some of the successful NBA players who were drafted right out of high school between 1995 and 2005.  A very brief glance at draft history seems to suggest that the success rate for those drafted right out of high school is actually better than those who went to college overall relative to draft position.

There are clearly some bona fide superstars (James, Bryant, Garnett, McGrady, Howard) on that list, as well as some players who have turned into solid, good career role players (A. Johnson, Perk, Dorell Wright, Al Harrington) and some who fall somewhere in between (Monta Ellis, Tyson Chandler, Al Jefferson, Rashard Lewis, Amare Stoudemire). 

Another thing that strikes me about that list is that (other than Kobe's rape case), I can't think of any significant off the court problems from any of those straight from high school players.  For the most part, they seem like they have been good pros and good citizens. 

Sure, some of the players who were drafted at eighteen years of age have taken a bit longer to mature into professionals than others who went to college as basketball apprentices, but this is why I believe a full thirty team development league will be essential for the league moving forward. 

The idea that the owners and GMs of NBA teams can be completely safe guarded from making mistakes in drafting players is completely ludicrous to me.  There is no draft system that can ensure that.  Nor, in my opinion, should there be. 

If the NBA had a fully developed development league in place, I can't see any reason why teams shouldn't be allowed to draft players that have the promise and the talent to potentially be good professional basketball players onto their NBA squads. 

I'm very disappointed that one of the new commissioner's goals is to re-raise the age limit for NBA players.  I'd much rather hear that developing the D-League is a primary goal.

Which one of them would not have been drafted if he had to wait two years?

How many would have been drafted higher?  How many lower?

I don't know the answer to that question, but I don't see the purpose of forcing them to go to college or to go play overseas if an NBA franchise thinks they are, or could potentially be, NBA material at the age of eighteen.

[Fafnir]

How much less money would have they have made with 2 years less of wages on their careers? Depending on the CBA quirks and timing KG could have lost out on $50 million or more in wages because he'd have had two less years of his prime outside the rookie scale.

Because you lose your wages for 2 years in your prime and raises and service time dictate your salary maximum.

The NBA can restrict its labor pool via the CBA with the Union's consent. I don't think it does anyone any good except the owners who get to avoid paying young players to develop.

[Fafnir]

How much money does Greg Oden make if he has to stay another year? He could be looking at 20 million less if his injury issues had started at the same chronological time.

[wdleehi]

How much money does Greg Oden make if he has to stay another year? He could be looking at 20 million less if his injury issues had started at the same chronological time.

And Portland doesn't waste a 1st round draft pick on a big man that could not stay healthy.


Someone else would have received that contract.  The money doesn't disappear, it just goes to another player.

[D.o.s.]

How much less money would have they have made with 2 years less of wages on their careers? Depending on the CBA quirks and timing KG could have lost out on $50 million or more in wages because he'd have had two less years of his prime outside the rookie scale.

Because you lose your wages for 2 years in your prime and raises and service time dictate your salary maximum.

The NBA can restrict its labor pool via the CBA with the Union's consent. I don't think it does anyone any good except the owners who get to avoid paying young players to develop.

[fairweatherfan]

WD they can only play NBA basketball IF an organization decides they want to give them a job. If an organization wants to give them a job they should be able to accept it if they want to.

And if they are allowed, NBA teams will have to take the gamble that they work out based on them playing in high school.


How does that help the NBA?  How does that help the teams?  How does that help the fans?



I don't care if the NBA dreaming players have to wait two or more season to get there as long as they are better trained when they get there.   Where there is actual pressure on them to improve their craft.  Where over hyped 18 year old drop from a top 5 pick to the 2nd round because teams get to actually scout them for a long period of time against a higher level talent. 


I just don't see the downside for the fans.

Well instead of looking at the downside for the fans, look at the downside for the players.

Exactly. Any NBA rookie contract can mean the world to some of these guys, and I don't like the plantation mentality of forcing them to work without pay in the college system for years.

What the commish might do is some sort of contract that eases teams playing them in the d-league for their first year or two. Then they can be paid what their market value is, but teams don't have to put them out as an NBA product before their ready.

So teachers, doctors, lawyers are "forced" to not only work without pay in college but they have to pay boats loads of money for their training. Most of these NBA eligible athletes are already getting a free ride scholarship. A rookie contract might mean the world to them but they shouldn't just be given a rookie contract, they should have to prove they are ready to handle NBA level of work.

You mean by, say, convincing an NBA GM to draft them? 

"Playing well in college" isn't remotely the same as "proving you can handle the NBA", because plenty of guys convince GMs to draft them with their college play and it turns out that they really can't handle it.

[wdleehi]

How much less money would have they have made with 2 years less of wages on their careers? Depending on the CBA quirks and timing KG could have lost out on $50 million or more in wages because he'd have had two less years of his prime outside the rookie scale.

Because you lose your wages for 2 years in your prime and raises and service time dictate your salary maximum.

The NBA can restrict its labor pool via the CBA with the Union's consent. I don't think it does anyone any good except the owners who get to avoid paying young players to develop.

It all depends on what the owners give the players.  They may trim a year off the beginning of a players career, but that could mean another year at the end when.

If the league was to up the max value of contracts for players based on years of services, the current players would be on board.

[jay]

There should be a two tier system kind of like baseball, maybe something like this:

1.  Declare for the draft your senior year of hs by a cerain date, so maybe the college coaches wouldnt have to waste too much time recruiting you.  (of course they recruit them earlier than ever so that wont help much.)

If you come out early, you get paid just like the 1st round picks in baseball, but you start out in the D-league.  I dont know if they can force teams to keep players in the D-league for a year or not.  Either way, the elite players that want to make the jump would be able to.

If you declare and dont get drafted, then you would be forced to play overseas or try to catch on in the dleage just like any other non-drafted player.  Would not be eligible for college.


2. If you dont declare, you have to stay in college for two years.  This eliminates one and dones.  My biggesat question would be at what date would they need to declare?  September 1st of their senior year?  By then everyone would have seen them play summer ball and have a decent idea of how they would project.