So far, so good, Brad...

[Roy H.]

“So far, so good” might be overstating it.  We’re a .500 team with no clear future.

Devil’s advocate, but did the Kemba deal make us better long term?  We gave up the #16 pick for a short-term move on a borderline playoff team.

Not signing Fournier makes sense long-term, but that is mitigated by the Richardson and Smart extensions.

So, the negative view: no progress, no improvement for the future, no cap space, no draft pick

[Celtics2021]

I've said this on other threads:

As much as I like Brad's move so far, I'm convinced that the Horford deal was in the works last season, under Danny.  Horford was being held out by OKC to avoid an injury to a tradeable asset.  Combine that with the fact that the deal happened very quickly when Brad was promoted to GM.

If true, they made a mistake and should have made that trade midseason.  Had they shipped out Kemba and a lottery-protected 1st for Al before the trade deadline, they’d have been able to use the Hayward exception for Al and acquired a $34.4 million exception for Kemba for use this past offseason or during the deadline.  Sure, we wouldn’t have gotten Fournier in this scenario, but that clearly wouldn’t have been a loss.

[jambr380]

“So far, so good” might be overstating it.  We’re a .500 team with no clear future.

Devil’s advocate, but did the Kemba deal make us better long term?  We gave up the #16 pick for a short-term move on a borderline playoff team.

Not signing Fournier makes sense long-term, but that is mitigated by the Richardson and Smart extensions.

So, the negative view: no progress, no improvement for the future, no cap space, no draft pick

And Kemba was bought out for less than Al's total contract (if he's not waived). Sengun or two future 1sts would look pretty nice right now, as well.

I get it, Al's return is definitely a feel-good story and I enjoy watching him for sure, but a mediocre team is still a mediocre team w/ or w/o Al. Hopefully we can surprise everybody this coming month and make a push into relevancy.

[td450]

I would had kept Moses Brown, he would fit nicely here..Dallas should be playing him & I expect they will

Kemba knees are shot & Fournier is just a streak shooting, so great job letting them go

Al is doing nicely here & Schroeder has been a steal, maybe MVP if this team so far

Extension for Smart & TimeLord wasn’t a smart move, hopefully trade both for a star player

How do people keep saying sighing Smart wasn't a good move.

Dude's won us games this season. He had a couple bad plays, and people are judging him for that.

Seriously don't understand the blind hate. I'm not saying he's the perfect player but we certainly didn't overpay for someone literally everyone in the league wants on their team.

 - His 3pt and FG attempts are down (that's what people wanted)
 - His turnovers are down.
 - His steals are up.
 - He's rebounding at a career high.
 - He's driving more and taking more 2pt shots
 - His 2pt shots are at a career high (49.5%)

His number of assists is the same. So fair enough, you want that higher. But you can blame that on everyone shooting terribly half the time cuz his assist% is up.

I dunno man. You're all weird for thinking he's a bad signing.

Also, over the last 6 games, he's been averaging 7.6 assists per game (for the season he has 5.7) on only 1.5 turnovers.

Marcus did start out quite badly, but he's had a really nice stretch, as you've said.

The problem is that the improvements have come as a 2 guard with Jaylen out/hobbled, and with two young #14 picks straining for time. That isn't going to be his longer term role. We still don't know how this team works at full strength in the backcourt. Is Shroder our starting point now? That does seem like the best option.

Marcus has always had stretches where he hasn't looked like an NBA player, and other stretches where he feels like the 3rd cornerstone. Because of that I think it's important to judge Marcus over a half season at least.

[wdleehi]

I would had kept Moses Brown, he would fit nicely here..Dallas should be playing him & I expect they will

Kemba knees are shot & Fournier is just a streak shooting, so great job letting them go

Al is doing nicely here & Schroeder has been a steal, maybe MVP if this team so far

Extension for Smart & TimeLord wasn’t a smart move, hopefully trade both for a star player

How do people keep saying sighing Smart wasn't a good move.

Dude's won us games this season. He had a couple bad plays, and people are judging him for that.

Seriously don't understand the blind hate. I'm not saying he's the perfect player but we certainly didn't overpay for someone literally everyone in the league wants on their team.

 - His 3pt and FG attempts are down (that's what people wanted)
 - His turnovers are down.
 - His steals are up.
 - He's rebounding at a career high.
 - He's driving more and taking more 2pt shots
 - His 2pt shots are at a career high (49.5%)

His number of assists is the same. So fair enough, you want that higher. But you can blame that on everyone shooting terribly half the time cuz his assist% is up.

I dunno man. You're all weird for thinking he's a bad signing.

Also, over the last 6 games, he's been averaging 7.6 assists per game (for the season he has 5.7) on only 1.5 turnovers.

Marcus did start out quite badly, but he's had a really nice stretch, as you've said.

The problem is that the improvements have come as a 2 guard with Jaylen out/hobbled, and with two young #14 picks straining for time. That isn't going to be his longer term role. We still don't know how this team works at full strength in the backcourt. Is Shroder our starting point now? That does seem like the best option.

Marcus has always had stretches where he hasn't looked like an NBA player, and other stretches where he feels like the 3rd cornerstone. Because of that I think it's important to judge Marcus over a half season at least.

Considering they moved Schroder to the bench already, I think we know the answer to "who is the starting PG".


And I rather Smart start as the PG and let Schroder come off the bench as a scoring threat instead. 

[Goldstar88]

I agree with all of the moves Brad has made thus far, except maybe the coach. I like the C’s roster, but there are a lot of new pieces and Udoka is still trying to figure things out as a first time HC.

[KG Living Legend]

 Can expect much in year one of this poop show. Sucks to lose the first, but look how much Better Horford is that Walker.

 Richardson way better than Moses. Only question is giving all that money to Marcus and my guy Bob who's always hurt.

We knew bobby was a risk tho. I think we're not overpaying him.

Marcus I feel was a great hire for several reasons. One's his on-court production, another his heart. People love to fall over his flaws but if you look at the stats he's an overal MAJOR plus.

 Hypothetically  if we could offer 80 million to Smart, Schroder or Lonzo Ball rank them one to three. I'll go first.


Lonzo #1
Denis #2
Smart #3

Steph Curry #1
Luka Doncic #2
Trae Young #3

If we're gonna talk about unrealistic/impossible moves, we should be aiming a lot higher.

Lonzo was given an $85M contract, and we could have easily offered a better sign and trade. It is fair to wonder whether Lonzo would have wanted to be here or not, but as moves go, there was otherwise nothing unrealistic about it at all. This was a very, very big miss.

Both Smart and Ball are good but somewhat flawed players. The difference is that Ball is exceptional at precisely the things this team desperately needs: playmaking, transitional pace and ball movement. After a rocky start, Smart has been better than expected so far, but he's never going to be more than a utility guard. He will not solve our offensive woes.

This team has to take a chance at solving its core playmaking and pace issues. We have done other types of moves, and those are all well and good, but we aren't going anywhere without reaching for a guy like Ball. There are aren't that many players out there that you can count on to impact ball movement in a worthwhile way.

 Huge TP. Exactly my point.

[Jvalin]

There are aren't that many players out there that you can count on to impact ball movement in a worthwhile way.

Agreed that we desperately need more passing/better ball movement. Udoka regularly talks about ball movement. Tatum and Brown are score-first players. We gotta find a player who excels at moving the ball. Here are some realistic(?) targets:

• Simmons (not sure whether we can actually get him, but he's definitely available)
• Kyle Anderson
• TJ McConnell
• Tyus Jones
• Satoransky (his efficiency has plummeted this season, although the Pels are terrible in general)
• Delon Wright (he's having a poor season too)
• Rubio (I'm a fan of his game, but he's overpaid. I wouldn't touch him on his current contract.)

My targets would have been Simmons >>> Kyle Anderson >  Satoransky, Delon Wright

And here are some unrealistic targets:

• CP3
• Luka
• Haliburton
• Conley
• Ingles
• Draymond Green

Fwiw,
- We could have traded for CP3 when he was in OKC. I bet he would have transformed us into a legit contending team. Gimme Tatum + Brown over Booker + Ayton. That said, the Suns have two great role players in Mikal Bridges and Crowder.
- We could have traded up for Haliburton in last year's draft. I bet the Kings view him as a future All-Star. Imo, he will never become an All-Star. He ain't explosive enough to beat his opponent 1-on-1, hence he cannot consistently create his own shot. Hopefully, he'll become available going forward if he fails to meet Sacramento's (unrealistic?) expectations.

[slamtheking]

There are aren't that many players out there that you can count on to impact ball movement in a worthwhile way.

Agreed that we desperately need more passing/better ball movement. Udoka regularly talks about ball movement. Tatum and Brown are score-first players. We gotta find a player who excels at moving the ball. Here are some realistic(?) targets:

• Simmons (not sure whether we can actually get him, but he's definitely available)
• Kyle Anderson
• TJ McConnell
• Tyus Jones
• Satoransky (his efficiency has plummeted this season, although the Pels are terrible in general)
• Delon Wright (he's having a poor season too)
• Rubio (I'm a fan of his game, but he's overpaid. I wouldn't touch him on his current contract.)

My targets would have been Simmons >>> Kyle Anderson >  Satoransky, Delon Wright

And here are some unrealistic targets:

• CP3
• Luka
• Haliburton
• Conley
• Ingles
• Draymond Green

Fwiw,
- We could have traded for CP3 when he was in OKC. I bet he would have transformed us into a legit contending team. Gimme Tatum + Brown over Booker + Ayton. That said, the Suns have two great role players in Mikal Bridges and Crowder.
- We could have traded up for Haliburton in last year's draft. I bet the Kings view him as a future All-Star. Imo, he will never become an All-Star. He ain't explosive enough to beat his opponent 1-on-1, hence he cannot consistently create his own shot. Hopefully, he'll become available going forward if he fails to meet Sacramento's (unrealistic?) expectations.

- "We could have traded for CP3 when he was in OKC" --> based on what provable fact and for what package or are you just passing off your speculation/opinion as fact?
- "We could have traded up for Haliburton in last year's draft." --> again, based on what provable fact and for what package or are you just passing off your speculation/opinion as fact?

genuinely curious if you actually have something to back up those statements which would be good information to know how they had an option on the table and punted on it.

[Jvalin]

There are aren't that many players out there that you can count on to impact ball movement in a worthwhile way.

Agreed that we desperately need more passing/better ball movement. Udoka regularly talks about ball movement. Tatum and Brown are score-first players. We gotta find a player who excels at moving the ball. Here are some realistic(?) targets:

• Simmons (not sure whether we can actually get him, but he's definitely available)
• Kyle Anderson
• TJ McConnell
• Tyus Jones
• Satoransky (his efficiency has plummeted this season, although the Pels are terrible in general)
• Delon Wright (he's having a poor season too)
• Rubio (I'm a fan of his game, but he's overpaid. I wouldn't touch him on his current contract.)

My targets would have been Simmons >>> Kyle Anderson >  Satoransky, Delon Wright

And here are some unrealistic targets:

• CP3
• Luka
• Haliburton
• Conley
• Ingles
• Draymond Green

Fwiw,
- We could have traded for CP3 when he was in OKC. I bet he would have transformed us into a legit contending team. Gimme Tatum + Brown over Booker + Ayton. That said, the Suns have two great role players in Mikal Bridges and Crowder.
- We could have traded up for Haliburton in last year's draft. I bet the Kings view him as a future All-Star. Imo, he will never become an All-Star. He ain't explosive enough to beat his opponent 1-on-1, hence he cannot consistently create his own shot. Hopefully, he'll become available going forward if he fails to meet Sacramento's (unrealistic?) expectations.

- "We could have traded for CP3 when he was in OKC" --> based on what provable fact and for what package or are you just passing off your speculation/opinion as fact?
- "We could have traded up for Haliburton in last year's draft." --> again, based on what provable fact and for what package or are you just passing off your speculation/opinion as fact?

genuinely curious if you actually have something to back up those statements which would be good information to know how they had an option on the table and punted on it.

It's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree. Haliburton got drafted at #12. We had #14, #26, #30 and #47. It's reasonable to assume we could have traded up for him. For instance, the Suns selected Jalen Smith at #10 which was considered a massive reach. I bet we could have traded up for #10.

CP3 was considered a negative asset at the time cause of his massive contract. I fully believe we could have acquired him on the cheap either in 2019 or in 2020. Again, just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

[Rondo9]

“So far, so good” might be overstating it.  We’re a .500 team with no clear future.

Devil’s advocate, but did the Kemba deal make us better long term?  We gave up the #16 pick for a short-term move on a borderline playoff team.

Not signing Fournier makes sense long-term, but that is mitigated by the Richardson and Smart extensions.

So, the negative view: no progress, no improvement for the future, no cap space, no draft pick

And Kemba was bought out for less than Al's total contract (if he's not waived). Sengun or two future 1sts would look pretty nice right now, as well.

I get it, Al's return is definitely a feel-good story and I enjoy watching him for sure, but a mediocre team is still a mediocre team w/ or w/o Al. Hopefully we can surprise everybody this coming month and make a push into relevancy.

Meh, it's not like injuries and the fact that the east is the toughest conference in a long time has impacted the team. I think we should temper expectations right now. Despite the record I've found a lot to like about the team namely the defense.

[Roy H.]

“So far, so good” might be overstating it.  We’re a .500 team with no clear future.

Devil’s advocate, but did the Kemba deal make us better long term?  We gave up the #16 pick for a short-term move on a borderline playoff team.

Not signing Fournier makes sense long-term, but that is mitigated by the Richardson and Smart extensions.

So, the negative view: no progress, no improvement for the future, no cap space, no draft pick

And Kemba was bought out for less than Al's total contract (if he's not waived). Sengun or two future 1sts would look pretty nice right now, as well.

I get it, Al's return is definitely a feel-good story and I enjoy watching him for sure, but a mediocre team is still a mediocre team w/ or w/o Al. Hopefully we can surprise everybody this coming month and make a push into relevancy.

Meh, it's not like injuries and the fact that the east is the toughest conference in a long time has impacted the team. I think we should temper expectations right now. Despite the record I've found a lot to like about the team namely the defense.

Perhaps true, but the team isn’t a contender.  Does it make sense to trade a decent draft pick to marginally improve a non-contender?

And for the record, I love Horford and supported the Kemba trade.  But, if it doesn’t help us long or short term, was there a point?

[slamtheking]

There are aren't that many players out there that you can count on to impact ball movement in a worthwhile way.

Agreed that we desperately need more passing/better ball movement. Udoka regularly talks about ball movement. Tatum and Brown are score-first players. We gotta find a player who excels at moving the ball. Here are some realistic(?) targets:

• Simmons (not sure whether we can actually get him, but he's definitely available)
• Kyle Anderson
• TJ McConnell
• Tyus Jones
• Satoransky (his efficiency has plummeted this season, although the Pels are terrible in general)
• Delon Wright (he's having a poor season too)
• Rubio (I'm a fan of his game, but he's overpaid. I wouldn't touch him on his current contract.)

My targets would have been Simmons >>> Kyle Anderson >  Satoransky, Delon Wright

And here are some unrealistic targets:

• CP3
• Luka
• Haliburton
• Conley
• Ingles
• Draymond Green

Fwiw,
- We could have traded for CP3 when he was in OKC. I bet he would have transformed us into a legit contending team. Gimme Tatum + Brown over Booker + Ayton. That said, the Suns have two great role players in Mikal Bridges and Crowder.
- We could have traded up for Haliburton in last year's draft. I bet the Kings view him as a future All-Star. Imo, he will never become an All-Star. He ain't explosive enough to beat his opponent 1-on-1, hence he cannot consistently create his own shot. Hopefully, he'll become available going forward if he fails to meet Sacramento's (unrealistic?) expectations.

- "We could have traded for CP3 when he was in OKC" --> based on what provable fact and for what package or are you just passing off your speculation/opinion as fact?
- "We could have traded up for Haliburton in last year's draft." --> again, based on what provable fact and for what package or are you just passing off your speculation/opinion as fact?

genuinely curious if you actually have something to back up those statements which would be good information to know how they had an option on the table and punted on it.

It's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree. Haliburton got drafted at #12. We had #14, #26, #30 and #47. It's reasonable to assume we could have traded up for him. For instance, the Suns selected Jalen Smith at #10 which was considered a massive reach. I bet we could have traded up for #10.

CP3 was considered a negative asset at the time cause of his massive contract. I fully believe we could have acquired him on the cheap either in 2019 or in 2020. Again, just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

my point here would be it's easy to second guess the opportunities that were available but it's just assumptions that Sac was willing to move down (or the Suns).  if they wanted Halliburton, why would they move down?  if the Suns wanted Smith, take him when you can get him.  I hoped they'd be able to consolidate those picks to move up but that didn't come to pass for whatever reason.  Hoped they would have done the same in the 2016 with all those picks that they had no room for which resulted in draft-and-stash picks that were essentially wasted assets.

CP3 as you stated required a trade and he had a massive contract.  what players would have needed to be traded that not only matched salary but would be enticing enough for OKC to make a deal?  We had Kemba those years so it was pointless to make that deal without including him going.  no way the team trades a high-profile FA signing right after they inked the deal not to mention his health wasn't a known concern at the time of the signing so no need to move him.  that's just not realistic scenario for acquiring CP3.

[todd_days_41]

“So far, so good” might be overstating it.  We’re a .500 team with no clear future.

Devil’s advocate, but did the Kemba deal make us better long term?  We gave up the #16 pick for a short-term move on a borderline playoff team.

Not signing Fournier makes sense long-term, but that is mitigated by the Richardson and Smart extensions.

So, the negative view: no progress, no improvement for the future, no cap space, no draft pick

Counter-point: if the #16 in the hands of the Celtics lands us Aaron Nesmith, or Kelly Olynyk, or James Young, or Romeo Langford, or Gerald Green..... is it really of much value?

I do think there's value in simply moving on from the Walker situation. Again, I'm surprised Presti even did the deal.

[slamtheking]

“So far, so good” might be overstating it.  We’re a .500 team with no clear future.

Devil’s advocate, but did the Kemba deal make us better long term?  We gave up the #16 pick for a short-term move on a borderline playoff team.

Not signing Fournier makes sense long-term, but that is mitigated by the Richardson and Smart extensions.

So, the negative view: no progress, no improvement for the future, no cap space, no draft pick

Counter-point: if the #16 in the hands of the Celtics lands us Aaron Nesmith, or Kelly Olynyk, or James Young, or Romeo Langford, or Gerald Green..... is is really of much value?

I do think there's value in simply moving on from the Walker situation. Again, I'm surprised Presti even did the deal.

quite the range of examples there:
Nesmith - looked like a decent prospect last year.  need to see where he is next year --> always believe in waiting until year 3 for a draft pick to start paying some dividends unless it's a top 5 pick.
KO - the guy is still collecting an NBA paycheck and a productive player.  his problem is that he will always be known as the guy Danny moved up to grab instead of Giannis by a number of people.
Young - bust.  no argument there
Romeo - Kid is showing he's a + defender on a number of positions and has skills on offense.  not seeing a problem with this pick at all
Gerald Green - the high-potential pick the same people who cry over Giannis shouldn't complain about.  kid took a lot of years to develop into a solid player but he was still playing through 2019 until injuring his foot.