Did we underrate Al Horford

[Vermont Green]

I think Al's replacement value to us is what is important.  Having Al means he plays instead of Kanter or Thompson.  In that context, Al is a big improvement.  Without Kemba, we play Smart and now Schroder so the other options are much better.  I think Al and Kemba are players with similar generic value but we need what Al brings much more than we need Kemba.

I don't second guess the decision to let Al go.  First, I am not even sure it was an option.  Who knows for sure that Al gave Boston the chance to match the offer?  We took Al back because we were able to trade an even worse contract.  I don't think even now that we would outright sign Al today for 2 years and whatever $54.  It is still a bad contract.

[Goldstar88]

 No. Not me. I knew right away that he would help winning much more every night than kemba.

Al is good and it’s nice to have him back, but we went as far with Kemba as we ever did with Al. Kemba’s scoring ability will be greatly missed, but hopefully mitigated a bit by the super-lucky Schroder signing. Kemba healthy is such a force and a better player than Al. We’ll see if he has a bounce-back year or not.

Kemba’s inability to play defense almost neutralized the scoring he provided. He didn’t shoot the ball particularly well and needs high volume to get into a rhythm. That’s about all he brought to the table, too. Not a great passer, rebounder and was poor defensively. Al on the other hand is a better shooter, defender, rebounder and is one of better passing big men in the league. He does so much more for the team. Kemba is also not the player that he was in Charlotte before he came to Boston.

[Roy H.]

 No. Not me. I knew right away that he would help winning much more every night than kemba.

Al is good and it’s nice to have him back, but we went as far with Kemba as we ever did with Al. Kemba’s scoring ability will be greatly missed, but hopefully mitigated a bit by the super-lucky Schroder signing. Kemba healthy is such a force and a better player than Al. We’ll see if he has a bounce-back year or not.

Yeah, Schroder should help balance out Kemba’s loss.  He’s lesser offensively, but more durable and a better defender.

The move I think we’ll regret is not resigning Fournier.  He would have brought more than Richardson.m, although we could have kept both.

[Hoopvortex]

 No. Not me. I knew right away that he would help winning much more every night than kemba.

Al is good and it’s nice to have him back, but we went as far with Kemba as we ever did with Al. Kemba’s scoring ability will be greatly missed, but hopefully mitigated a bit by the super-lucky Schroder signing. Kemba healthy is such a force and a better player than Al. We’ll see if he has a bounce-back year or not.

Yeah, Schroder should help balance out Kemba’s loss.  He’s lesser offensively, but more durable and a better defender.

At this point I wouldn't be so sure that he's lesser offensively. Knee troubles like Kemba's tend not to just disappear but to worsen over time. I'll never say never when it comes to the body, but the best bet is that Boston made the right choice. I'm assuming that New York knows what they're getting into and that they've made a value calculation.

The move I think we’ll regret is not resigning Fournier.  He would have brought more than Richardson.m, although we could have kept both.

Here I'm doubtful. Apart from a hefty difference in price, the Boston brass might likely have calculated that they've got one or two two-way young wings with third-scorer potential coming up, with a horizon line approximately when Richardson's extension expires. I think so.

[Celtics4ever]

He's rested and fresh so it is too early to say.   Age affects players differently but no one ever escapes it altogether.

I think 100% though he would have stayed here if he knew Kyrie was leaving.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think almost everyone appreciated him, other than the “average Al” bozos.

But, it was fair to let him walk at $28 million.

Yet the C's are paying him nearly that much ($27M) now for a guy who is 3 years older.  It's OK for them to admit they made a mistake.

What mistake? It would've been a mistake if everyone walked and we would've been left with Horford alone too. The miscalculation was how quickly Horford made a decision once he got a big contract. Until we landed a big player, keeping Horford would have been a mistake.

The decision was never was about Horford, it was about under which circumstances we should keep him. In a matter of a day if not hours those circumstances changed, he was not available any longer. Also I think we had to some cap gymnastics to keep him regardless, it wasn't as clear cut as it is being made out to be.

[gouki88]

 No. Not me. I knew right away that he would help winning much more every night than kemba.

Al is good and it’s nice to have him back, but we went as far with Kemba as we ever did with Al. Kemba’s scoring ability will be greatly missed, but hopefully mitigated a bit by the super-lucky Schroder signing. Kemba healthy is such a force and a better player than Al. We’ll see if he has a bounce-back year or not.

Kemba’s inability to play defense almost neutralized the scoring he provided. He didn’t shoot the ball particularly well and needs high volume to get into a rhythm. That’s about all he brought to the table, too. Not a great passer, rebounder and was poor defensively. Al on the other hand is a better shooter, defender, rebounder and is one of better passing big men in the league. He does so much more for the team. Kemba is also not the player that he was in Charlotte before he came to Boston.

You discredit yourself by lying with statements like "Horford is a better shooter than Kemba". Lower % on half the 3 point attempts over the last 5 seasons

[Goldstar88]

 No. Not me. I knew right away that he would help winning much more every night than kemba.

Al is good and it’s nice to have him back, but we went as far with Kemba as we ever did with Al. Kemba’s scoring ability will be greatly missed, but hopefully mitigated a bit by the super-lucky Schroder signing. Kemba healthy is such a force and a better player than Al. We’ll see if he has a bounce-back year or not.

Kemba’s inability to play defense almost neutralized the scoring he provided. He didn’t shoot the ball particularly well and needs high volume to get into a rhythm. That’s about all he brought to the table, too. Not a great passer, rebounder and was poor defensively. Al on the other hand is a better shooter, defender, rebounder and is one of better passing big men in the league. He does so much more for the team. Kemba is also not the player that he was in Charlotte before he came to Boston.

You discredit yourself by lying with statements like "Horford is a better shooter than Kemba". Lower % on half the 3 point attempts over the last 5 seasons

Al’s career FG and 3pt percentages are better than Kemba’s over 10+years. But feel free to cherry pick which years to look at when comparing their 3pt% or any other stats.

[gouki88]

 No. Not me. I knew right away that he would help winning much more every night than kemba.

Al is good and it’s nice to have him back, but we went as far with Kemba as we ever did with Al. Kemba’s scoring ability will be greatly missed, but hopefully mitigated a bit by the super-lucky Schroder signing. Kemba healthy is such a force and a better player than Al. We’ll see if he has a bounce-back year or not.

Kemba’s inability to play defense almost neutralized the scoring he provided. He didn’t shoot the ball particularly well and needs high volume to get into a rhythm. That’s about all he brought to the table, too. Not a great passer, rebounder and was poor defensively. Al on the other hand is a better shooter, defender, rebounder and is one of better passing big men in the league. He does so much more for the team. Kemba is also not the player that he was in Charlotte before he came to Boston.

You discredit yourself by lying with statements like "Horford is a better shooter than Kemba". Lower % on half the 3 point attempts over the last 5 seasons

Al’s career FG and 3pt percentages are better than Kemba’s over 10+years. But feel free to cherry pick which years to look at when comparing their 3pt% or any other stats.

It's not at all cherry-picking, don't be ridiculous. Kemba was a poor shooter when he was drafted, and grew into a good one. Al didn't shoot at all when he was drafted. Take his stats from when he started shooting and compare them to Kemba's. It's not even close.

Using terms like "cherry-picking" is beyond absurd. If you can't factor in context to statistical analysis then there's no point.

[Moranis]

 No. Not me. I knew right away that he would help winning much more every night than kemba.

Al is good and it’s nice to have him back, but we went as far with Kemba as we ever did with Al. Kemba’s scoring ability will be greatly missed, but hopefully mitigated a bit by the super-lucky Schroder signing. Kemba healthy is such a force and a better player than Al. We’ll see if he has a bounce-back year or not.

Kemba’s inability to play defense almost neutralized the scoring he provided. He didn’t shoot the ball particularly well and needs high volume to get into a rhythm. That’s about all he brought to the table, too. Not a great passer, rebounder and was poor defensively. Al on the other hand is a better shooter, defender, rebounder and is one of better passing big men in the league. He does so much more for the team. Kemba is also not the player that he was in Charlotte before he came to Boston.

You discredit yourself by lying with statements like "Horford is a better shooter than Kemba". Lower % on half the 3 point attempts over the last 5 seasons

Al’s career FG and 3pt percentages are better than Kemba’s over 10+years. But feel free to cherry pick which years to look at when comparing their 3pt% or any other stats.

It's not at all cherry-picking, don't be ridiculous. Kemba was a poor shooter when he was drafted, and grew into a good one. Al didn't shoot at all when he was drafted. Take his stats from when he started shooting and compare them to Kemba's. It's not even close.

Using terms like "cherry-picking" is beyond absurd. If you can't factor in context to statistical analysis then there's no point.

37.6 to 37.2 isn't much different.  Kemba shoots twice as many, but hits at basically the same percentage.  Al is 53.8 from 2 over that time while Kemba is 51.9.  Kemba a good deal better from the line at 85.8 vs. 79.4.

That said, why choose 5 years, why not choose 4 years.  Oh wait, becasue Al is actually a better 3 point shooter over the last 4 years, hmmmm, that couldn't be it.  Of course, last 3 years back to Kemba.  Last 2 years, also Kemba, but last year back to Al. 

Seems to me that there is plenty of support to say Al is a better 3 point shooter than Kemba.  Certainly doesn't have the volume, but does the percentage depending on how you cherry pick the numbers.

[Goldstar88]

 No. Not me. I knew right away that he would help winning much more every night than kemba.

Al is good and it’s nice to have him back, but we went as far with Kemba as we ever did with Al. Kemba’s scoring ability will be greatly missed, but hopefully mitigated a bit by the super-lucky Schroder signing. Kemba healthy is such a force and a better player than Al. We’ll see if he has a bounce-back year or not.

Kemba’s inability to play defense almost neutralized the scoring he provided. He didn’t shoot the ball particularly well and needs high volume to get into a rhythm. That’s about all he brought to the table, too. Not a great passer, rebounder and was poor defensively. Al on the other hand is a better shooter, defender, rebounder and is one of better passing big men in the league. He does so much more for the team. Kemba is also not the player that he was in Charlotte before he came to Boston.

You discredit yourself by lying with statements like "Horford is a better shooter than Kemba". Lower % on half the 3 point attempts over the last 5 seasons

Al’s career FG and 3pt percentages are better than Kemba’s over 10+years. But feel free to cherry pick which years to look at when comparing their 3pt% or any other stats.

It's not at all cherry-picking, don't be ridiculous. Kemba was a poor shooter when he was drafted, and grew into a good one. Al didn't shoot at all when he was drafted. Take his stats from when he started shooting and compare them to Kemba's. It's not even close.

Using terms like "cherry-picking" is beyond absurd. If you can't factor in context to statistical analysis then there's no point.

37.6 to 37.2 isn't much different.  Kemba shoots twice as many, but hits at basically the same percentage.  Al is 53.8 from 2 over that time while Kemba is 51.9.  Kemba a good deal better from the line at 85.8 vs. 79.4.

That said, why choose 5 years, why not choose 4 years.  Oh wait, becasue Al is actually a better 3 point shooter over the last 4 years, hmmmm, that couldn't be it.  Of course, last 3 years back to Kemba.  Last 2 years, also Kemba, but last year back to Al. 

Seems to me that there is plenty of support to say Al is a better 3 point shooter than Kemba.  Certainly doesn't have the volume, but does the percentage depending on how you cherry pick the numbers.

Think I agree with Moranis on this one. Have a TP.

[Csfan1984]

I would say Horford underrated the C's. At least he got a big check and was able to come back. Still he wasted 2 possibly good years.

[trickybilly]

I would say Horford underrated the C's. At least he got a big check and was able to come back. Still he wasted 2 possibly good years.

It's hard to quantify the damage that Gordon's awful awful injury inflicted on this team long term.

So much butterfly effect.

[gouki88]

 No. Not me. I knew right away that he would help winning much more every night than kemba.

Al is good and it’s nice to have him back, but we went as far with Kemba as we ever did with Al. Kemba’s scoring ability will be greatly missed, but hopefully mitigated a bit by the super-lucky Schroder signing. Kemba healthy is such a force and a better player than Al. We’ll see if he has a bounce-back year or not.

Kemba’s inability to play defense almost neutralized the scoring he provided. He didn’t shoot the ball particularly well and needs high volume to get into a rhythm. That’s about all he brought to the table, too. Not a great passer, rebounder and was poor defensively. Al on the other hand is a better shooter, defender, rebounder and is one of better passing big men in the league. He does so much more for the team. Kemba is also not the player that he was in Charlotte before he came to Boston.

You discredit yourself by lying with statements like "Horford is a better shooter than Kemba". Lower % on half the 3 point attempts over the last 5 seasons

Al’s career FG and 3pt percentages are better than Kemba’s over 10+years. But feel free to cherry pick which years to look at when comparing their 3pt% or any other stats.

It's not at all cherry-picking, don't be ridiculous. Kemba was a poor shooter when he was drafted, and grew into a good one. Al didn't shoot at all when he was drafted. Take his stats from when he started shooting and compare them to Kemba's. It's not even close.

Using terms like "cherry-picking" is beyond absurd. If you can't factor in context to statistical analysis then there's no point.

37.6 to 37.2 isn't much different.  Kemba shoots twice as many, but hits at basically the same percentage.  Al is 53.8 from 2 over that time while Kemba is 51.9.  Kemba a good deal better from the line at 85.8 vs. 79.4.

That said, why choose 5 years, why not choose 4 years.  Oh wait, becasue Al is actually a better 3 point shooter over the last 4 years, hmmmm, that couldn't be it.  Of course, last 3 years back to Kemba.  Last 2 years, also Kemba, but last year back to Al. 

Seems to me that there is plenty of support to say Al is a better 3 point shooter than Kemba.  Certainly doesn't have the volume, but does the percentage depending on how you cherry pick the numbers.

I don't care about 0.5 percentage points either way if one shooter is making double the amount of threes the other is.

[Moranis]

 No. Not me. I knew right away that he would help winning much more every night than kemba.

Al is good and it’s nice to have him back, but we went as far with Kemba as we ever did with Al. Kemba’s scoring ability will be greatly missed, but hopefully mitigated a bit by the super-lucky Schroder signing. Kemba healthy is such a force and a better player than Al. We’ll see if he has a bounce-back year or not.

Kemba’s inability to play defense almost neutralized the scoring he provided. He didn’t shoot the ball particularly well and needs high volume to get into a rhythm. That’s about all he brought to the table, too. Not a great passer, rebounder and was poor defensively. Al on the other hand is a better shooter, defender, rebounder and is one of better passing big men in the league. He does so much more for the team. Kemba is also not the player that he was in Charlotte before he came to Boston.

You discredit yourself by lying with statements like "Horford is a better shooter than Kemba". Lower % on half the 3 point attempts over the last 5 seasons

Al’s career FG and 3pt percentages are better than Kemba’s over 10+years. But feel free to cherry pick which years to look at when comparing their 3pt% or any other stats.

It's not at all cherry-picking, don't be ridiculous. Kemba was a poor shooter when he was drafted, and grew into a good one. Al didn't shoot at all when he was drafted. Take his stats from when he started shooting and compare them to Kemba's. It's not even close.

Using terms like "cherry-picking" is beyond absurd. If you can't factor in context to statistical analysis then there's no point.

37.6 to 37.2 isn't much different.  Kemba shoots twice as many, but hits at basically the same percentage.  Al is 53.8 from 2 over that time while Kemba is 51.9.  Kemba a good deal better from the line at 85.8 vs. 79.4.

That said, why choose 5 years, why not choose 4 years.  Oh wait, becasue Al is actually a better 3 point shooter over the last 4 years, hmmmm, that couldn't be it.  Of course, last 3 years back to Kemba.  Last 2 years, also Kemba, but last year back to Al. 

Seems to me that there is plenty of support to say Al is a better 3 point shooter than Kemba.  Certainly doesn't have the volume, but does the percentage depending on how you cherry pick the numbers.

I don't care about 0.5 percentage points either way if one shooter is making double the amount of threes the other is.

except you came out and called him a liar that was maniupulating the numbers, when you did the exact same thing by randomly picking the last 5 seasons.  I also believe Kemba is a better shooter than Horford is, for the exact same reason i.e. very similar percentage but no where near similar attempts (they also get their attempts in different ways), but that isn't what you said and that was the part I was objecting to.