NBA Season 2021-22

[Moranis]

Sixers reportedly still pushing hard to move Simmons.

If your the Sixers, what do you do this season? They are rolling without Simmons, and Embiid in particular is flourishing. Do you move Simmons even if teams refuse to give equal value for him? Do you hold on to him until the summer, or do you try to bring him back? I think having him play again with this group would be a mistake and ruin their chemistry. I would try hard to trade him to Toronto for Vanvleet. Vanvleet would be a great fit on the Sixers and Simmons would work well in Toronto.

I don't do that trade if I am Toronto.

VanVleet is more valuable to Toronto than Simmons would be. Toronto desperately needs what VanVleet does in terms of his outside shot making and his dribble drive threat. Simmons does not provide that.

The skills Simmons does provide are already duplicated well with Scottie Barnes, OG Anunoby and Pascal Siakam. Unlike the skills VanVleet provides which nobody else on the team provides.

There is underestimation of VanVleet's role in their offense and just how valuable he is to that team.

There is also an underestimation in the skills he has relative to the rest of the league and how valuable those skills are. His outside shooting is one of the strongest in the league now in terms of accuracy, volume and variety. His ability to shoot 3-5 feet behind the three point line creates much more spacing than other three point shooters. His ability to shoot off the dribble makes defenses have to worry more about him. These skills are what allow VanVleet to take 9 threes a game (huge volume) and he is hitting them at 41%. Phenomenal combination of volume and accuracy.

Then you add the ball-handling, quickness and passing and you have one of the best offensive packages in the league. VanVleet is the engine that runs Toronto's entire offense. Without him, they are one of the worst offensive teams in the league.

To that point, this season VanVleet's on/off per 100 possession is +13.5, which is absolutely elite (Giannis this season is +13.8 and that is the only season he has been that high, Durant has only eclipsed that twice, Embiid never has, etc. - really only Lebron and Curry consistently did better than that in their primes of the active guys). 

[tazzmaniac]

Sixers reportedly still pushing hard to move Simmons.

If your the Sixers, what do you do this season? They are rolling without Simmons, and Embiid in particular is flourishing. Do you move Simmons even if teams refuse to give equal value for him? Do you hold on to him until the summer, or do you try to bring him back? I think having him play again with this group would be a mistake and ruin their chemistry. I would try hard to trade him to Toronto for Vanvleet. Vanvleet would be a great fit on the Sixers and Simmons would work well in Toronto.

I don't do that trade if I am Toronto.

VanVleet is more valuable to Toronto than Simmons would be. Toronto desperately needs what VanVleet does in terms of his outside shot making and his dribble drive threat. Simmons does not provide that.

The skills Simmons does provide are already duplicated well with Scottie Barnes, OG Anunoby and Pascal Siakam. Unlike the skills VanVleet provides which nobody else on the team provides.

There is underestimation of VanVleet's role in their offense and just how valuable he is to that team.

There is also an underestimation in the skills he has relative to the rest of the league and how valuable those skills are. His outside shooting is one of the strongest in the league now in terms of accuracy, volume and variety. His ability to shoot 3-5 feet behind the three point line creates much more spacing than other three point shooters. His ability to shoot off the dribble makes defenses have to worry more about him. These skills are what allow VanVleet to take 9 threes a game (huge volume) and he is hitting them at 41%. Phenomenal combination of volume and accuracy.

Then you add the ball-handling, quickness and passing and you have one of the best offensive packages in the league. VanVleet is the engine that runs Toronto's entire offense. Without him, they are one of the worst offensive teams in the league.

To that point, this season VanVleet's on/off per 100 possession is +13.5, which is absolutely elite (Giannis this season is +13.8 and that is the only season he has been that high, Durant has only eclipsed that twice, Embiid never has, etc. - really only Lebron and Curry consistently did better than that in their primes of the active guys).

Where are you getting your numbers?   Per Nba.com stats, the Raptors are +4.3 with VanVleet on court and -2.6 with him off court.  That +6.9 differential is good but hardly elite. 

[Moranis]

Sixers reportedly still pushing hard to move Simmons.

If your the Sixers, what do you do this season? They are rolling without Simmons, and Embiid in particular is flourishing. Do you move Simmons even if teams refuse to give equal value for him? Do you hold on to him until the summer, or do you try to bring him back? I think having him play again with this group would be a mistake and ruin their chemistry. I would try hard to trade him to Toronto for Vanvleet. Vanvleet would be a great fit on the Sixers and Simmons would work well in Toronto.

I don't do that trade if I am Toronto.

VanVleet is more valuable to Toronto than Simmons would be. Toronto desperately needs what VanVleet does in terms of his outside shot making and his dribble drive threat. Simmons does not provide that.

The skills Simmons does provide are already duplicated well with Scottie Barnes, OG Anunoby and Pascal Siakam. Unlike the skills VanVleet provides which nobody else on the team provides.

There is underestimation of VanVleet's role in their offense and just how valuable he is to that team.

There is also an underestimation in the skills he has relative to the rest of the league and how valuable those skills are. His outside shooting is one of the strongest in the league now in terms of accuracy, volume and variety. His ability to shoot 3-5 feet behind the three point line creates much more spacing than other three point shooters. His ability to shoot off the dribble makes defenses have to worry more about him. These skills are what allow VanVleet to take 9 threes a game (huge volume) and he is hitting them at 41%. Phenomenal combination of volume and accuracy.

Then you add the ball-handling, quickness and passing and you have one of the best offensive packages in the league. VanVleet is the engine that runs Toronto's entire offense. Without him, they are one of the worst offensive teams in the league.

To that point, this season VanVleet's on/off per 100 possession is +13.5, which is absolutely elite (Giannis this season is +13.8 and that is the only season he has been that high, Durant has only eclipsed that twice, Embiid never has, etc. - really only Lebron and Curry consistently did better than that in their primes of the active guys).

Where are you getting your numbers?   Per Nba.com stats, the Raptors are +4.3 with VanVleet on court and -2.6 with him off court.  That +6.9 differential is good but hardly elite.

basketball-reference

Are the nba.com numbers per 100 possessions or just regular.

[celticsclay]

Man warriors have been getting absolutely waxed. Game was basically over early second quarter. They are missing green who is extra important against bucks, but bucks are down holiday.

[Who]

Man warriors have been getting absolutely waxed. Game was basically over early second quarter. They are missing green who is extra important against bucks, but bucks are down holiday.

First thought was Klay Thompson is back.

The chemistry was so good without him. Hard to keep that going when inserting such a key piece and one takes a large number of shot attempts (away from others).

[Kiorrik]

Man warriors have been getting absolutely waxed. Game was basically over early second quarter. They are missing green who is extra important against bucks, but bucks are down holiday.

First thought was Klay Thompson is back.

The chemistry was so good without him. Hard to keep that going when inserting such a key piece and one takes a large number of shot attempts (away from others).

Hahaha, they'll be fine.

Everyone throws up a stinker every now and then.

[Who]

Man warriors have been getting absolutely waxed. Game was basically over early second quarter. They are missing green who is extra important against bucks, but bucks are down holiday.

First thought was Klay Thompson is back.

The chemistry was so good without him. Hard to keep that going when inserting such a key piece and one takes a large number of shot attempts (away from others).

Hahaha, they'll be fine.

Everyone throws up a stinker every now and then.

I don't know. I always think of Chris Webber and how he messed up the Sacramento Kings who were rolling without him after he returned from injury. When was that? 2004, I think.

Big key for me is how defensively capable of Klay. That is what killed C-Webb.

[Who]

So there are 3 Klay Thompson scenarios:

(1) He recovers very well and GSW rolls on

(2) He recovers well but disrupts team chemistry and it takes GSW a few weeks or months to work him back in and the team takes a hit in the meantime.

(3) He recovers poorly, disrupts team chemistry and hurts the team badly to ruin their postseason dreams (the C-Webb scenario).

It is something to watch out for. See which way it goes. The guy hasn't played for two years. That is a long time.

[Kiorrik]

So there are 3 Klay Thompson scenarios:

(1) He recovers very well and GSW rolls on

(2) He recovers well but disrupts team chemistry and it takes GSW a few weeks or months to work him back in and the team takes a hit in the meantime.

(3) He recovers poorly, disrupts team chemistry and hurts the team badly to ruin their postseason dreams (the C-Webb scenario).

It is something to watch out for. See which way it goes. The guy hasn't played for two years. That is a long time.

Or he's done and GSW roll on regardless.

There's a bunch more but yeh, we'll see what happens. Time will tell.

[hpantazo]

So there are 3 Klay Thompson scenarios:

(1) He recovers very well and GSW rolls on

(2) He recovers well but disrupts team chemistry and it takes GSW a few weeks or months to work him back in and the team takes a hit in the meantime.

(3) He recovers poorly, disrupts team chemistry and hurts the team badly to ruin their postseason dreams (the C-Webb scenario).

It is something to watch out for. See which way it goes. The guy hasn't played for two years. That is a long time.

So basically GS is on a Hayward watch now.

[SparzWizard]

Would you trade Jaylen Brown for Klay Thompson, assuming he gets his pre-2019 injury form back

[Moranis]

So there are 3 Klay Thompson scenarios:

(1) He recovers very well and GSW rolls on

(2) He recovers well but disrupts team chemistry and it takes GSW a few weeks or months to work him back in and the team takes a hit in the meantime.

(3) He recovers poorly, disrupts team chemistry and hurts the team badly to ruin their postseason dreams (the C-Webb scenario).

It is something to watch out for. See which way it goes. The guy hasn't played for two years. That is a long time.

He didn't shoot very well but was only -8.  Payton played 5 minutes and was -12.  Curry was -25 (and didn't shoot much better than Klay).  Iggy -21 in 13 minutes.  Doesn't seem like Klay was the main problem.

[nickagneta]

Would you trade Jaylen Brown for Klay Thompson, assuming he gets his pre-2019 injury form back

JB is 25. Klay about to turn 32. Jaylen is owed $54 million over the next two years. Klay $83 million. Even if Klay returns to form, given Brown's developmental arc, I think you would have to pass.

[hpantazo]

Would you trade Jaylen Brown for Klay Thompson, assuming he gets his pre-2019 injury form back

JB is 25. Klay about to turn 32. Jaylen is owed $54 million over the next two years. Klay $83 million. Even if Klay returns to form, given Brown's developmental arc, I think you would have to pass.

Yeah, also, IF Klay returns to form, it will take him at least a full year from now, so your looking at a guy who would be 33-34 by then and you'd have maybe a year or two before he's on his way out of the league at that point if all goes well.

[celticsclay]

Would you trade Jaylen Brown for Klay Thompson, assuming he gets his pre-2019 injury form back

JB is 25. Klay about to turn 32. Jaylen is owed $54 million over the next two years. Klay $83 million. Even if Klay returns to form, given Brown's developmental arc, I think you would have to pass.

Yeah, also, IF Klay returns to form, it will take him at least a full year from now, so your looking at a guy who would be 33-34 by then and you'd have maybe a year or two before he's on his way out of the league at that point if all goes well.

Yeah I also just don’t think there is a chance he returns to top 10 player in the league level. Also was just wondering is there a great success story that missed 2.5 years with injuries? Was Bernard king like that? I know grant hill missed a few years basically but he peaked out as a high end role player after that.