Author Topic: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension  (Read 19953 times)

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Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #75 on: August 21, 2021, 12:19:29 AM »

Online Celtics2021

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In Win Shares per 48 minutes, for players who played at least as many minutes as Time Lord, the rankings are:

1) Jokic
2) Embiid
3) Time Lord
4) Butler
5) Gobert
6) Giannis
7) Kawhi

He was All-NBA impactful when he was on the floor.  Absolute steal if he is even mostly healthy.

Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #76 on: August 21, 2021, 04:26:30 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Quote from: Jared Weiss
the timing of these Smart & Williams extensions means they will be trade eligible ahead of the deadline. Obviously BOS would only trade them for something like Giannis + Middleton + Oscar Robertson, but you can’t rule it out.
https://twitter.com/JaredWeissNBA/status/1428772606690344962?s=20

Replace ''Giannis + Middleton + Oscar Robertson'' with any one of Beal/Siakam/Simmons. :P

Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #77 on: August 21, 2021, 09:50:47 AM »

Offline timpiker

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I read somewhere that this is the 15th highest paid contract to a Center.  This contract is ridiculous.  I like him but what has he done to earn this?  The C's blew it.  Overpaid, overpaid, overpaid.  13 career starts and he gets this?  Brad, you're an idiot.

Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #78 on: August 21, 2021, 09:55:21 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I read somewhere that this is the 15th highest paid contract to a Center.  This contract is ridiculous.  I like him but what has he done to earn this?  The C's blew it.  Overpaid, overpaid, overpaid.  13 career starts and he gets this?  Brad, you're an idiot.

This kind of negativity is a silly.

Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #79 on: August 21, 2021, 10:05:12 AM »

Offline td450

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Would anyone disagree with the premise that Robert Williams will be a top 10 center if he can stay on the court?

We as fans are all terrified of his history, but only the team and the medical people really know the facts necessary to judge the odds he will be able to play regularly. Us fans are never going to see the inside info, but the team did just signal their conclusions. I think we should all be very encouraged by what this means

Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #80 on: August 21, 2021, 10:16:29 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Would anyone disagree with the premise that Robert Williams will be a top 10 center if he can stay on the court?

We as fans are all terrified of his history, but only the team and the medical people really know the facts necessary to judge the odds he will be able to play regularly. Us fans are never going to see the inside info, but the team did just signal their conclusions. I think we should all be very encouraged by what this means

I disagree. I don’t see RWilliams as top 10 as a ceiling. I am not going to make a list but feels more like top 25. That said, this is probably an OK contract for a top 25 Center.

Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #81 on: August 21, 2021, 10:24:15 AM »

Offline td450

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Would anyone disagree with the premise that Robert Williams will be a top 10 center if he can stay on the court?

We as fans are all terrified of his history, but only the team and the medical people really know the facts necessary to judge the odds he will be able to play regularly. Us fans are never going to see the inside info, but the team did just signal their conclusions. I think we should all be very encouraged by what this means

I disagree. I don’t see RWilliams as top 10 as a ceiling. I am not going to make a list but feels more like top 25. That said, this is probably an OK contract for a top 25 Center.

I suggest you do make a list. I guess you could make a case for about 12-13 guys instead of 10 right now, but I expect Rob will move up as he hits his prime. After that top 12-13 or so, things drop off quite quickly.


Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #82 on: August 21, 2021, 11:27:16 AM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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Would anyone disagree with the premise that Robert Williams will be a top 10 center if he can stay on the court?

We as fans are all terrified of his history, but only the team and the medical people really know the facts necessary to judge the odds he will be able to play regularly. Us fans are never going to see the inside info, but the team did just signal their conclusions. I think we should all be very encouraged by what this means

I disagree. I don’t see RWilliams as top 10 as a ceiling. I am not going to make a list but feels more like top 25. That said, this is probably an OK contract for a top 25 Center.

I suggest you do make a list. I guess you could make a case for about 12-13 guys instead of 10 right now, but I expect Rob will move up as he hits his prime. After that top 12-13 or so, things drop off quite quickly.

I'm not Vermont Green, but I can start this fabled list - give me some allowance for error after Ayton:

1. Nikola Jokic
2. Joel Embiid
3. Rudy Gobert
4. Karl-Anthony Towns
5. Bam Adebayo
6. Deandre Ayton
7. Nikola Vucevic
8. Clint Capela
9. Jonas Valanciunas
10. Jarrett Allen
11. Jusuf Nurkic
12. Kristaps Porzingis
13. Steven Adams
14. Myles Turner

...

At this point it starts to gets a little hazy where Robert Williams stacks up assuming he's healthy. Guys like Montrezl Harrell, Richaun Holmes, or James Wiseman might all be regarded highly by various people. Either way, I think Robert Williams presently a Top 20 center and has the potential to crack the Top 10.

Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #83 on: August 21, 2021, 11:42:33 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Would anyone disagree with the premise that Robert Williams will be a top 10 center if he can stay on the court?

We as fans are all terrified of his history, but only the team and the medical people really know the facts necessary to judge the odds he will be able to play regularly. Us fans are never going to see the inside info, but the team did just signal their conclusions. I think we should all be very encouraged by what this means
I will go tiers as any one player in a tier for me can be argued over another in that team based on fit or matchup. Currently my rankings are

T1-Jokic, Embiid, KAT, Davis ( Top 4)
T2-Bam, Ayton, Sabonis, Gorbert (Top 8 )
T3-Vuce, Capela, Porzingis (Top 11)
T4-Allen, Turner, Wood, Val, Markkanen (Top 16)
T5-TL, Adams, Plumlee, Nurkic, Theis, Ibaka, Lopez, Horford

So TL is between 17 and 23 range depending on team and matchup right now. If he could maintain production healthy at least 62 games and playing 24-28 mins he is tier 4. 70 games and 29-34 mins he can probably be in that T3. 77 games and 35-40 mins (highly doubt he maintains his play in this much run) he is T2.

Thing is with the hush on TL's health we will never know if the rumored conditions are what will always make him a 20 min, 55 game guy. If he is such for the whole contract it's not a good deal. He is a below MLE player if he can't be dependable.

Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #84 on: August 21, 2021, 11:54:24 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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Would anyone disagree with the premise that Robert Williams will be a top 10 center if he can stay on the court?

We as fans are all terrified of his history, but only the team and the medical people really know the facts necessary to judge the odds he will be able to play regularly. Us fans are never going to see the inside info, but the team did just signal their conclusions. I think we should all be very encouraged by what this means

I disagree. I don’t see RWilliams as top 10 as a ceiling. I am not going to make a list but feels more like top 25. That said, this is probably an OK contract for a top 25 Center.

I suggest you do make a list. I guess you could make a case for about 12-13 guys instead of 10 right now, but I expect Rob will move up as he hits his prime. After that top 12-13 or so, things drop off quite quickly.

I'm not Vermont Green, but I can start this fabled list - give me some allowance for error after Ayton:

1. Nikola Jokic
2. Joel Embiid
3. Rudy Gobert
4. Karl-Anthony Towns
5. Bam Adebayo
6. Deandre Ayton
7. Nikola Vucevic
8. Clint Capela
9. Jonas Valanciunas
10. Jarrett Allen
11. Jusuf Nurkic
12. Kristaps Porzingis
13. Steven Adams
14. Myles Turner

...

At this point it starts to gets a little hazy where Robert Williams stacks up assuming he's healthy. Guys like Montrezl Harrell, Richaun Holmes, or James Wiseman might all be regarded highly by various people. Either way, I think Robert Williams presently a Top 20 center and has the potential to crack the Top 10.

You left out Anthony Davis.

Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #85 on: August 21, 2021, 12:09:40 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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What is Robert Williams as a projected player? There's no doubt health is a concern, but what does he provide when he is on the court.

1. Absolutely elite rim runner. Top 5 in the NBA.
2. Elite scoring efficiency on low usage. 72% TS was one of the best in the league.
3. High end court vision for a big. Averaged 3.5 assists per 36. In his high end 20 game stretch last year, it was over 4 assists per 36.
4. Excellent rebounder. 13 rebounders per 36. When he's on the court, he gets a lot of boards.
5. Team offensive rating is better with Williams on the court. Williams offensive rating was better than Walker, Brown, Tatum, and Smart last year.

The above cannot be argued with. When he's on the court, he's highly effective AS AN OFFENSIVE PLAYER.

I haven't even begun to discuss the area of the court where he projects to be most dynamic, which is defense. Defense is harder to quantify with stats. If you are a stats guy, consider the following:

1. Williams averaged 4.9 steals + blocks per 36 last year, while lowering his fouls per 36 by almost 1 foul. He is very, very disruptive as a defensive player.
2. His length and quick jumps offer something very few big men in the NBA have -- the ability to play back off of perimeter scorers while still being able to block/contest their jumpshots.

There is no doubt he has limitations as well.
1. He is not a good individual scorer. He doesn't have go to moves. He doesn't counters. You can't throw him the ball on the block and get reliable good shots. I don't think the Cs want them from him anyway, and I do think he could improve. This is akin to saying, " Yeah, your Left Guard might be good at blocking, but he's not very good at throwing a back shoulder go-route." He's not a post player and at this point he doesn't stretch the floor for you.
2. He still get's lost on defense a fair bit. This is fairly noticeable. He did a bit better last year, but he gives up easy buckets. Now, in fairness to him, his length and disruptiveness forces teams to go through multiple set options many possessions, and I think the disruptiveness is well worth the couple of possessions each game he falls asleep, especially if you think his fundamentals will continue to improve.
3. He gets beat off the dribble a fair bit by perimeter scorers. People have said this demonstrates his slow-footedness and poor lateral speed. I don't agree. I think this issue is similar to the issue from number 2. He falls asleep. He keeps his center of gravity high. He gets lulled to sleep expecting a pull-up. I don't think this is a physical issue. I think this is a mental/fundamental issue, and again, I think it's something that can be improved. And again, his level of disruptiveness still makes it worth it, because it more than makes up for the few plays a game when he might get beat by a perimeter player. After all, you kind of expect that to happen to a big men a few times again.
4. Finally, of course his injuries are a concern. Much has been said and doesn't need to be said about that.

If he didn't have these issues, he'd be a max player, right? If he was iron-man healthy, never got lost on defense, never got beat by perimeter offensive players, could create his own shots, and had all his other strengths, he'd be Anthony Davis.

If he can get to 50 games this regular season and is healthy for the playoffs at the level of production from his last 36 games last year (including playoffs 10-8-3-2-1), he's worth that contract. If he also ups his minutes to 30 minutes a game at that per minute production, he will be in talks for the all-defensive teams (projected at 14-11-4-3-1.5). If he can also continue to grow in his defensive awareness, he'll be a contender for the defensive MVP.

It's a lot of "ifs," but this is an absolutely reasonable bet on a player that has been very dynamic, is well-loved by his teammates, and by all accounts is very teachable. He's way more worth that money than Richaun Holmes at 55 million.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2021, 12:42:23 PM by DefenseWinsChamps »

Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #86 on: August 21, 2021, 12:14:09 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Would anyone disagree with the premise that Robert Williams will be a top 10 center if he can stay on the court?
Starting-caliber Center? For sure. Top 10? Not so much. Assuming Timelord stays healthy going forward, I still don't think he''ll become better than any of these guys are right now.

1. Jokic
2. Embiid
3. AD
4. KAT
5. Bam
6. Gobert
7. Wood
8. Vucevic
9. Sabonis
10. Porzingis

Granted, some of them are playing plenty of their minutes at PF, but imo they are at their best when playing at Center. I also think Giannis and Simmons would be at their best at Center, but that's another story.

Plenty of other names are worthy of consideration as well. For instance, vets like Brook Lopez, Capela, Valanciunas, Nurkic, Myles Turner or young Centers like Ayton and Jarrett Allen. Don't think Timelord will ever become as good as BroLo is right now. Remember game 5 against the Hawks? BroLo can create his own shot, plus he can consistently shoot the 3. Timelord will never reach that level as a player.

Generally speaking, I'm low on drop bigs unless they are offensive juggernauts (for instance, Jokic, Embiid, KAT). Brad was always using Timelord in a drop scheme. Problem is, Tatum, Brown and Smart are at their best in a switch-heavy defensive scheme. I'm curious to see how Udoka will use him this season. Personally speaking, I don't think he has the lateral quickness to switch ball screens on the perimeter.

Obviously, Timelord is a terrific rim protector. That said, he has a long way to go as a PnR defender. He allowed 1.39 PPP when defending the PnR last season which ranked in the 10th percentile. Likewise, he allowed 1.21 PPP during the 2019/20 season which ranked in the 20th percentile. Defending the PnR is a #1 priority in today's NBA. If your starting Center struggles in PnR defense, that's a massive problem in my book. With all due respect, imo Timelord is overrated on this board.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2021, 12:25:49 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #87 on: August 21, 2021, 12:55:23 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Would anyone disagree with the premise that Robert Williams will be a top 10 center if he can stay on the court?
Starting-caliber Center? For sure. Top 10? Not so much. Assuming Timelord stays healthy going forward, I still don't think he''ll become better than any of these guys are right now.

1. Jokic
2. Embiid
3. AD
4. KAT
5. Bam
6. Gobert
7. Wood
8. Vucevic
9. Sabonis
10. Porzingis

Granted, some of them are playing plenty of their minutes at PF, but imo they are at their best when playing at Center. I also think Giannis and Simmons would be at their best at Center, but that's another story.

Plenty of other names are worthy of consideration as well. For instance, vets like Brook Lopez, Capela, Valanciunas, Nurkic, Myles Turner or young Centers like Ayton and Jarrett Allen. Don't think Timelord will ever become as good as BroLo is right now. Remember game 5 against the Hawks? BroLo can create his own shot, plus he can consistently shoot the 3. Timelord will never reach that level as a player.

Generally speaking, I'm low on drop bigs unless they are offensive juggernauts (for instance, Jokic, Embiid, KAT). Brad was always using Timelord in a drop scheme. Problem is, Tatum, Brown and Smart are at their best in a switch-heavy defensive scheme. I'm curious to see how Udoka will use him this season. Personally speaking, I don't think he has the lateral quickness to switch ball screens on the perimeter.

Obviously, Timelord is a terrific rim protector. That said, he has a long way to go as a PnR defender. He allowed 1.39 PPP when defending the PnR last season which ranked in the 10th percentile. Likewise, he allowed 1.21 PPP during the 2019/20 season which ranked in the 20th percentile. Defending the PnR is a #1 priority in today's NBA. If your starting Center struggles in PnR defense, that's a massive problem in my book. With all due respect, imo Timelord is overrated on this board.

You haven’t taken into account what I think are his strongest attributes. He has the potential to be an excellent high-post center. Solid screener, very good passer, elite roll threat. Add to that his very good rebounding percentages and you have a player with the potential to really supercharge this offense.

His defense is a work in progress. But his block numbers and steal percentages are very high because he is long and very active. He has extremely long arms, which give him a standing reach well above average for an NBA center - an inch higher than Ayton, for example. It’s disruptive. If he continues to learn where to position himself and keeps cutting down on challenging shots when he has no chance to block them, he will be in line with the top 5-10 defensive centers in the league - certainly ahead of players like Wood, Sabonas, Vucevic, and the like.


Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #88 on: August 21, 2021, 12:57:40 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I would be happy with Robert Williams as a top 20 center in the NBA at $13 million contract. He does some things very well but other things not at all. Pick and roll defense was mentioned above. And he really has no offensive game other than dunks and put backs.   

He needs to add something more than dunks to his offensive game. And he needs to shore up the team defense. Maybe then he starts to be Knocking on the door of the top 10.

Re: Timelord signs 4 year $54M extension
« Reply #89 on: August 21, 2021, 01:11:47 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Roll the dice …..I really like the guy , rare court IQ for a center …..but like Embiid his next injury is just always seems around the next corner and I hold my breath the whole time he is on the court.  The team usually does great when he is 100 percent healthy and on the court. And then , when he is not ….I fall to pieces .. :-[