Author Topic: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’  (Read 6247 times)

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Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2021, 06:44:52 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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If Lonzo could be had without breaking the bank, I could see him as a good fit with EF / JB / JT / Timelord.  Lonzo is a guy who could push the pace, has great length, is a pest on def, would be great with Timelord.  If we had EF / JB / JT surrounding Lonzo as shooters, he wouldn't have to carry much scoring duties, just do what he is naturally good at.  With a Lonzo / EF / JB / JT lineup we would be as close to switchable as we have ever been. 

I wouldn't be opposed to Lonzo but I'm not sure how that could realistically happen.  He's going to be a RFA and probably get offers around $18-20 million annual, at least.

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Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2021, 06:52:23 PM »

Online blink

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I wouldn't be opposed to Lonzo but I'm not sure how that could realistically happen.  He's going to be a RFA and probably get offers around $18-20 million annual, at least.

Could a Kemba / Lonzo swap work if we took other players (bad salary) back and gave up a 1st round pick?  I don't know much about the salary cap.
Maybe as a RFA, Lonzo can't be traded and only can be signed by us giving an offer sheet for him and the Pels not matching?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 06:59:47 PM by blink »

Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2021, 06:55:34 PM »

Online RJ87

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I wouldn't be opposed to Lonzo but I'm not sure how that could realistically happen.  He's going to be a RFA and probably get offers around $18-20 million annual, at least.

Could a Kemba / Lonzo swap work if we took other players (bad salary) back and gave up a 1st round pick?  I don't know much about the salary cap.
Maybe as a RFA, Lonzo can't be traded and only can be signed by us giving an offer sheet for him and the Pels not accepting?

Honestly, we may get more traction building a package around Marcus Smart. But a sign and trade would hard cap us, so I don't think Danny would pull the trigger unless he really believed he was bringing in a player that dramatically raised this team's ceiling.

Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2021, 06:57:53 PM »

Online Goldstar88

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And a pass first point guard to run the offense...

Such as?

I'm never clear if people mean a point guard who doesn't take many shots or a point guard who gets a lot of assists, or just a point guard who makes flashy passes.


The assist leaders league-wide is mostly a list of players who will not be available.  Trae Young.  Luka. Jokic. Dame.  Morant. Butler.  De'Aaron Fox.

Or do you want to spend way too much money on a guy over age 30?  Westbrook? Paul?  Draymond?  Mike Conley? Kyle Lowry?

There are guys who are basically not a threat to score, but good at running the offense e.g. Ricky Rubio or TJ McConnell.



Malcolm Brogdon? Is he likely to be available?


I'm just not sure there's a really good option out there.

Either Kyle Lowry or Lonzo Ball. Don’t think Brogdon would be available. Really wish Danny had made a move for Drew Holiday and shipped out Kemba, plus picks. Starting lineup of Holiday, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Timelord or Holiday, Fournier, Brown, Tatum, Timelord. Would have been Prettty nice...

Jrue Holiday isn't really a pass first point guard. That's not his strength at all. He's actually best as a secondary playmaker ala Marcus Smart.

I agree with PhoSita, people clamor for a pass first PG but what is that really in today's NBA? The top assist guys are pretty ball dominant guys.

Really? He’s had seasons where he averaged 8 assists per game, but passing is not a strength of his at all... Lol. Dude shoots well, plays excellent D and can run the offense. Bucks were smart to trade away Bledsoe and two firsts for Jrue. Well worth it.

Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2021, 06:58:08 PM »

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I wouldn't be opposed to Lonzo but I'm not sure how that could realistically happen.  He's going to be a RFA and probably get offers around $18-20 million annual, at least.

Could a Kemba / Lonzo swap work if we took other players (bad salary) back and gave up a 1st round pick?  I don't know much about the salary cap.
Maybe as a RFA, Lonzo can't be traded and only can be signed by us giving an offer sheet for him and the Pels not accepting?

Honestly, we may get more traction building a package around Marcus Smart. But a sign and trade would hard cap us, so I don't think Danny would pull the trigger unless he really believed he was bringing in a player that dramatically raised this team's ceiling.

I guess the hard cap could be pretty detrimental.  hmmm

Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2021, 07:03:49 PM »

Online RJ87

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And a pass first point guard to run the offense...

Such as?

I'm never clear if people mean a point guard who doesn't take many shots or a point guard who gets a lot of assists, or just a point guard who makes flashy passes.


The assist leaders league-wide is mostly a list of players who will not be available.  Trae Young.  Luka. Jokic. Dame.  Morant. Butler.  De'Aaron Fox.

Or do you want to spend way too much money on a guy over age 30?  Westbrook? Paul?  Draymond?  Mike Conley? Kyle Lowry?

There are guys who are basically not a threat to score, but good at running the offense e.g. Ricky Rubio or TJ McConnell.



Malcolm Brogdon? Is he likely to be available?


I'm just not sure there's a really good option out there.

Either Kyle Lowry or Lonzo Ball. Don’t think Brogdon would be available. Really wish Danny had made a move for Drew Holiday and shipped out Kemba, plus picks. Starting lineup of Holiday, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Timelord or Holiday, Fournier, Brown, Tatum, Timelord. Would have been Prettty nice...

Jrue Holiday isn't really a pass first point guard. That's not his strength at all. He's actually best as a secondary playmaker ala Marcus Smart.

I agree with PhoSita, people clamor for a pass first PG but what is that really in today's NBA? The top assist guys are pretty ball dominant guys.

Really? He’s had seasons where he averaged 8 assists per game, but passing is not a strength of his at all... Lol. Dude shoots well, plays excellent D and can run the offense. Bucks were smart to trade away Bledsoe and two firsts for Jrue. Well worth it.

I didn't say he wasn't a good passer, but he's best as a secondary playmaker. I think he's at his best playing off the ball like he did next to Rondo in NOP and Giannis in Milwaukee.

Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2021, 07:08:48 PM »

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If Lonzo could be had without breaking the bank, I could see him as a good fit with EF / JB / JT / Timelord.  Lonzo is a guy who could push the pace, has great length, is a pest on def, would be great with Timelord.  If we had EF / JB / JT surrounding Lonzo as shooters, he wouldn't have to carry much scoring duties, just do what he is naturally good at.  With a Lonzo / EF / JB / JT lineup we would be as close to switchable as we have ever been. 

I wouldn't be opposed to Lonzo but I'm not sure how that could realistically happen.  He's going to be a RFA and probably get offers around $18-20 million annual, at least.

Dumb Q here, so to go after Lonzo we would either :
a) have to move enough salary in trades to get under the cap to absorb his whole salary into cap space?
b) sign and trade for him and then be hard capped?


Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2021, 07:14:05 PM »

Offline gouki88

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And a pass first point guard to run the offense...

Such as?

I'm never clear if people mean a point guard who doesn't take many shots or a point guard who gets a lot of assists, or just a point guard who makes flashy passes.


The assist leaders league-wide is mostly a list of players who will not be available.  Trae Young.  Luka. Jokic. Dame.  Morant. Butler.  De'Aaron Fox.

Or do you want to spend way too much money on a guy over age 30?  Westbrook? Paul?  Draymond?  Mike Conley? Kyle Lowry?

There are guys who are basically not a threat to score, but good at running the offense e.g. Ricky Rubio or TJ McConnell.



Malcolm Brogdon? Is he likely to be available?


I'm just not sure there's a really good option out there.

Either Kyle Lowry or Lonzo Ball. Don’t think Brogdon would be available. Really wish Danny had made a move for Drew Holiday and shipped out Kemba, plus picks. Starting lineup of Holiday, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Timelord or Holiday, Fournier, Brown, Tatum, Timelord. Would have been Prettty nice...

Jrue Holiday isn't really a pass first point guard. That's not his strength at all. He's actually best as a secondary playmaker ala Marcus Smart.

I agree with PhoSita, people clamor for a pass first PG but what is that really in today's NBA? The top assist guys are pretty ball dominant guys.

Really? He’s had seasons where he averaged 8 assists per game, but passing is not a strength of his at all... Lol. Dude shoots well, plays excellent D and can run the offense. Bucks were smart to trade away Bledsoe and two firsts for Jrue. Well worth it.
The last time Holiday was close to 8 assists a game was when he was playing the SG spot and having 17 shots a game. He's not really pass-first in this stage of his career, and it's for the better - he's earned himself hundreds of millions of dollars as a result.
Trade Smart & Kemba

Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2021, 10:54:06 PM »

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And a pass first point guard to run the offense...

Such as?

I'm never clear if people mean a point guard who doesn't take many shots or a point guard who gets a lot of assists, or just a point guard who makes flashy passes.


The assist leaders league-wide is mostly a list of players who will not be available.  Trae Young.  Luka. Jokic. Dame.  Morant. Butler.  De'Aaron Fox.

Or do you want to spend way too much money on a guy over age 30?  Westbrook? Paul?  Draymond?  Mike Conley? Kyle Lowry?

There are guys who are basically not a threat to score, but good at running the offense e.g. Ricky Rubio or TJ McConnell.



Malcolm Brogdon? Is he likely to be available?


I'm just not sure there's a really good option out there.

Either Kyle Lowry or Lonzo Ball. Don’t think Brogdon would be available. Really wish Danny had made a move for Drew Holiday and shipped out Kemba, plus picks. Starting lineup of Holiday, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Timelord or Holiday, Fournier, Brown, Tatum, Timelord. Would have been Prettty nice...

Jrue Holiday isn't really a pass first point guard. That's not his strength at all. He's actually best as a secondary playmaker ala Marcus Smart.

I agree with PhoSita, people clamor for a pass first PG but what is that really in today's NBA? The top assist guys are pretty ball dominant guys.

Really? He’s had seasons where he averaged 8 assists per game, but passing is not a strength of his at all... Lol. Dude shoots well, plays excellent D and can run the offense. Bucks were smart to trade away Bledsoe and two firsts for Jrue. Well worth it.
The last time Holiday was close to 8 assists a game was when he was playing the SG spot and having 17 shots a game. He's not really pass-first in this stage of his career, and it's for the better - he's earned himself hundreds of millions of dollars as a result.


He’s a point guard that can pass well, shoot well, and plays excellent D. C’s could use one of those. Big time.

Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2021, 11:38:32 PM »

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I feel like Danny needs to get the most blame for this season. The Celtics lacks size, experience, and talent outside of the starting lineup. Average age of the C’s starters is 25. Average age of the bench is 24. So many project players with Langford, Grant, Edwards, Kornet, Waters, and Tacko who should be playing in the G-League.

As a comparison, the Heat starters: Butler(31) Bam(23)Ariza(35) Robinson(27) Oladipo(28)

Rotation players: Dragic(34)Iguadala(37)Nunn(25) Herro(21), Dedmon(31)

Need a roster balanced with vets and younger players. With the way the bench is constructed, you’d think the C’s were going through a rebuild vs a team that made it to the ECF last year.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 11:49:52 PM by Goldstar88 »

Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2021, 11:40:32 PM »

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I feel like Danny needs to get the most blame for this season.  Team lacks size, experience, and talent outside of the starting lineup. Average age of the C’s starters is 25. Average age of the bench is 24.No depth at all...

As a comparison, the Heat starters: Butler(31) Bam(23)Ariza(35) Robinson(27) Oladipo(28)

Rotation players: Dragic(34)Iguadala(37)Nunn(25) Herro(21), Dedmon(35)

Need a roster balanced with vets and younger players. With the way the bench is constructed, you’d think the C’s were going through a rebuild vs a team that made it to the ECF last year.

Danny is responsible...

Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2021, 01:26:26 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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I feel like Danny needs to get the most blame for this season.  Team lacks size, experience, and talent outside of the starting lineup. Average age of the C’s starters is 25. Average age of the bench is 24.No depth at all...

As a comparison, the Heat starters: Butler(31) Bam(23)Ariza(35) Robinson(27) Oladipo(28)

Rotation players: Dragic(34)Iguadala(37)Nunn(25) Herro(21), Dedmon(35)

Need a roster balanced with vets and younger players. With the way the bench is constructed, you’d think the C’s were going through a rebuild vs a team that made it to the ECF last year.

Danny is responsible...

He did add Fournier and Thompson to the roster. Two very solid vets. And we were in the ECF last year. I feel like a lot of this criticism is in hindsight. How much do you want Ainge rocking the boat on what looked to be a team on the rise?

Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2021, 01:55:29 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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I honestly don’t even understand what is wrong with this team so I don’t know who to blame. I think we can chalk it up a perfect storm of injuries, covid and one of the shortest offseasons in the nba. If they are the same next year I am ready to hold brad and ainge accountable

Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2021, 03:59:16 AM »

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And a pass first point guard to run the offense...

Such as?

I'm never clear if people mean a point guard who doesn't take many shots or a point guard who gets a lot of assists, or just a point guard who makes flashy passes.

Unfortunately one potential option is "Marcus Smart when he's not making terrible decisions." But we're 7 years into his career so we can't expect Smart to somehow flip a switch and stop viewing himself as a volume shooter half the time.

It seems to me a quaint notion that Smart's green light to shoot doesn't come from the coaching staff.

Brad has repeatedly said that if Marcus is open, he wants him to shoot the ball. There’s a reason that he is open.... :P

“We have specific goals for each of our guys and Marcus in particular,” Stevens told reporters via Zoom on Monday. “He’s got to continue to build off on the threat he is and at the same time, we need him to organize us and help run us, especially while Kemba is out. There’s even more of a responsibility to get us organized as a team. Guys are going to have nights when they make shots, don’t make shots and if they are wide open, inside-out shots, you have to shoot those.“ -Brad Stevens

Precisely my point.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2021, 06:41:12 AM »

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I feel like Danny needs to get the most blame for this season.  Team lacks size, experience, and talent outside of the starting lineup. Average age of the C’s starters is 25. Average age of the bench is 24.No depth at all...

As a comparison, the Heat starters: Butler(31) Bam(23)Ariza(35) Robinson(27) Oladipo(28)

Rotation players: Dragic(34)Iguadala(37)Nunn(25) Herro(21), Dedmon(35)

Need a roster balanced with vets and younger players. With the way the bench is constructed, you’d think the C’s were going through a rebuild vs a team that made it to the ECF last year.

Danny is responsible...

He did add Fournier and Thompson to the roster. Two very solid vets. And we were in the ECF last year. I feel like a lot of this criticism is in hindsight. How much do you want Ainge rocking the boat on what looked to be a team on the rise?

I don’t think it’s hindsight.  Our bench was a problem last season, and it still is.  Essentially we have replaced Theis with Thompson (downgrade) and Hayward with Fournier (downgrade).  On one hand, Danny’s hands are tied by being limited to the MLE and vet minimums, while wanting to operate under the luxury tax.  On the other, Danny created this roster crunch and cap situation, and there were cheap options available that he passed on.
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