Jackie Mac: ‘Nobody is blameless’

[Celtics4ever]

Covid has hit us hard.   But we come out flat even before Covid too often ravaged us.   We also had a poor bench prior.   We had several bad signings that hurt us prior to Covid.

Others team not fearing us and seeing us as an easy win might have to do with Covid.  Our guys not playing 100% could be Covid.

If CBS survives I think it will be because of Covid.    But half the team needs to go Covid or not.   THESE GUYS DO NOT DESERVE A RUN IT BACK!

[Big333223]

Covid. Injuries. Bubble hangover. No real training camp.

This team has a ton of talent. Tatum, Brown, Kemba, Fournier, Timelord, Smart, Thompson... plus Pritchard had a nice rookie season, Neismith has shown something, Langford's had flashes... There's a tone of talent here.

I want one more season with this group. A year older but no one is old (Kemba just turned 31). A good long offseason to get healthy and then a real training camp for everyone to learn their spot. I think this team, as constructed, could contend if they get right.

If it doesn't happen next year, Brad should be replaced and Kemba becomes an expiring contract and an asset instead of an albatross. Re-form the team around your two stars who are still young.

[Celtics2021]

Covid has hit us hard.   But we come out flat even before Covid too often ravaged us.   We also had a poor bench prior.   We had several bad signings that hurt us prior to Covid.

Others team not fearing us and seeing us as an easy win might have to do with Covid.  Our guys not playing 100% could be Covid.

If CBS survives I think it will be because of Covid.    But half the team needs to go Covid or not.   THESE GUYS DO NOT DESERVE A RUN IT BACK!

It's fine to complain about things, but we were 7-3 and in 1st place when Covid hit, so that's just making things up.

[Moranis]

I feel like Danny needs to get the most blame for this season.  Team lacks size, experience, and talent outside of the starting lineup. Average age of the C’s starters is 25. Average age of the bench is 24.No depth at all...

As a comparison, the Heat starters: Butler(31) Bam(23)Ariza(35) Robinson(27) Oladipo(28)

Rotation players: Dragic(34)Iguadala(37)Nunn(25) Herro(21), Dedmon(35)

Need a roster balanced with vets and younger players. With the way the bench is constructed, you’d think the C’s were going through a rebuild vs a team that made it to the ECF last year.

Danny is responsible...

He did add Fournier and Thompson to the roster. Two very solid vets. And we were in the ECF last year. I feel like a lot of this criticism is in hindsight. How much do you want Ainge rocking the boat on what looked to be a team on the rise?

I don’t think it’s hindsight.  Our bench was a problem last season, and it still is.  Essentially we have replaced Theis with Thompson (downgrade) and Hayward with Fournier (downgrade).  On one hand, Danny’s hands are tied by being limited to the MLE and vet minimums, while wanting to operate under the luxury tax.  On the other, Danny created this roster crunch and cap situation, and there were cheap options available that he passed on.

The bench has been a problem for years and the team keeps replacing better players with worse ones.  Walker and Fournier were basically the only replacements for Irving, Horford, and Hayward.  That isn't going to cut it.  Then you start talking about the rotation players like Rozier, Morris, and Theis and the replacements for them are basically Thompson, R. Williams, and Nesmith.  That just doesn't get it done.  Walker was a terrible fit with Tatum and Brown and never should have been signed.  The team doesn't have a real PF on the roster and hasn't in a couple of seasons.  The team is an ill fitting conglomeration of asset accumulation and with no semblance of team building.  Ainge's inability to pick a direction and a path and stick to it, has created the bloated salary, poorly constructed mess.  Tatum is a potential monster and Brown is very good, but outside of that, there are problems every where and the GM is 100% to blame for this mess of a roster.

That "conglomerate" of parts looked very good in two of the last three postseasons - postseasons in which Kyrie and Hayward were either gone or hurt. The cohesiveness and effort were good regardless of who was on the court.

The question is why the team is so toxic and dysfunctional THIS year.

Something is going on behind the scenes.  It's one thing to say that we're not yet good enough to compete for a championship. It's another To blame this epic dysfunction on a roster that is very similar to last year's. We are losing home games to ACTUAL conglomerates of trash like the Thunder. There is something foul afoot that we don't know about.

I don't know that Boston looked particularly good last year in the playoffs (beat the Sixers down their best player and beat Toronto in 7 on a neutral floor before having the Heat beat them handidly) and 3 post seasons ago they played two young teams that weren't ready before losing to Lebron.  Now advancing to the ECF is certainly an accomplishment, but those teams weren't contenders, clearly overachieved, and gave the fanbase a false sense of hope. 

And given what this year has been, I'd actually argue this current team has overachieved once again with an above .500 record. 

[gouki88]

Covid has hit us hard.   But we come out flat even before Covid too often ravaged us.   We also had a poor bench prior.   We had several bad signings that hurt us prior to Covid.

Others team not fearing us and seeing us as an easy win might have to do with Covid.  Our guys not playing 100% could be Covid.

If CBS survives I think it will be because of Covid.    But half the team needs to go Covid or not.   THESE GUYS DO NOT DESERVE A RUN IT BACK!

It's fine to complain about things, but we were 7-3 and in 1st place when Covid hit, so that's just making things up.

Nothing gets in the way of a story

[kraidstar]

I feel like Danny needs to get the most blame for this season.  Team lacks size, experience, and talent outside of the starting lineup. Average age of the C’s starters is 25. Average age of the bench is 24.No depth at all...

As a comparison, the Heat starters: Butler(31) Bam(23)Ariza(35) Robinson(27) Oladipo(28)

Rotation players: Dragic(34)Iguadala(37)Nunn(25) Herro(21), Dedmon(35)

Need a roster balanced with vets and younger players. With the way the bench is constructed, you’d think the C’s were going through a rebuild vs a team that made it to the ECF last year.

Danny is responsible...

He did add Fournier and Thompson to the roster. Two very solid vets. And we were in the ECF last year. I feel like a lot of this criticism is in hindsight. How much do you want Ainge rocking the boat on what looked to be a team on the rise?

I don’t think it’s hindsight.  Our bench was a problem last season, and it still is.  Essentially we have replaced Theis with Thompson (downgrade) and Hayward with Fournier (downgrade).  On one hand, Danny’s hands are tied by being limited to the MLE and vet minimums, while wanting to operate under the luxury tax.  On the other, Danny created this roster crunch and cap situation, and there were cheap options available that he passed on.

The bench has been a problem for years and the team keeps replacing better players with worse ones.  Walker and Fournier were basically the only replacements for Irving, Horford, and Hayward.  That isn't going to cut it.  Then you start talking about the rotation players like Rozier, Morris, and Theis and the replacements for them are basically Thompson, R. Williams, and Nesmith.  That just doesn't get it done.  Walker was a terrible fit with Tatum and Brown and never should have been signed.  The team doesn't have a real PF on the roster and hasn't in a couple of seasons.  The team is an ill fitting conglomeration of asset accumulation and with no semblance of team building.  Ainge's inability to pick a direction and a path and stick to it, has created the bloated salary, poorly constructed mess.  Tatum is a potential monster and Brown is very good, but outside of that, there are problems every where and the GM is 100% to blame for this mess of a roster.

That "conglomerate" of parts looked very good in two of the last three postseasons - postseasons in which Kyrie and Hayward were either gone or hurt. The cohesiveness and effort were good regardless of who was on the court.

The question is why the team is so toxic and dysfunctional THIS year.

Something is going on behind the scenes.  It's one thing to say that we're not yet good enough to compete for a championship. It's another To blame this epic dysfunction on a roster that is very similar to last year's. We are losing home games to ACTUAL conglomerates of trash like the Thunder. There is something foul afoot that we don't know about.

I don't know that Boston looked particularly good last year in the playoffs (beat the Sixers down their best player and beat Toronto in 7 on a neutral floor before having the Heat beat them handidly) and 3 post seasons ago they played two young teams that weren't ready before losing to Lebron.  Now advancing to the ECF is certainly an accomplishment, but those teams weren't contenders, clearly overachieved, and gave the fanbase a false sense of hope. 

And given what this year has been, I'd actually argue this current team has overachieved once again with an above .500 record.

Huh? The C's were dominating in the playoffs last year until that meltdown at the end of game 3 against Toronto. IMO that moment was the last consistently good basketball we've seen from this club. I think they stopped trusting each other after that. The blown coverage on that 3 is emblematic of our defense ever since.

BTW the Sixers' best player is Ben Simmons? that's news to me. And they are a top-3 or 4 team this year. But I guess beating them counts for nothing. Same with beating Giannis. And without an epic choke shooting 3-pointers we beat Lebron as well. It's not like we were even healthy in any of those series, but we still won most of them.

Don't say that doesn't matter.

[Moranis]

I feel like Danny needs to get the most blame for this season.  Team lacks size, experience, and talent outside of the starting lineup. Average age of the C’s starters is 25. Average age of the bench is 24.No depth at all...

As a comparison, the Heat starters: Butler(31) Bam(23)Ariza(35) Robinson(27) Oladipo(28)

Rotation players: Dragic(34)Iguadala(37)Nunn(25) Herro(21), Dedmon(35)

Need a roster balanced with vets and younger players. With the way the bench is constructed, you’d think the C’s were going through a rebuild vs a team that made it to the ECF last year.

Danny is responsible...

He did add Fournier and Thompson to the roster. Two very solid vets. And we were in the ECF last year. I feel like a lot of this criticism is in hindsight. How much do you want Ainge rocking the boat on what looked to be a team on the rise?

I don’t think it’s hindsight.  Our bench was a problem last season, and it still is.  Essentially we have replaced Theis with Thompson (downgrade) and Hayward with Fournier (downgrade).  On one hand, Danny’s hands are tied by being limited to the MLE and vet minimums, while wanting to operate under the luxury tax.  On the other, Danny created this roster crunch and cap situation, and there were cheap options available that he passed on.

The bench has been a problem for years and the team keeps replacing better players with worse ones.  Walker and Fournier were basically the only replacements for Irving, Horford, and Hayward.  That isn't going to cut it.  Then you start talking about the rotation players like Rozier, Morris, and Theis and the replacements for them are basically Thompson, R. Williams, and Nesmith.  That just doesn't get it done.  Walker was a terrible fit with Tatum and Brown and never should have been signed.  The team doesn't have a real PF on the roster and hasn't in a couple of seasons.  The team is an ill fitting conglomeration of asset accumulation and with no semblance of team building.  Ainge's inability to pick a direction and a path and stick to it, has created the bloated salary, poorly constructed mess.  Tatum is a potential monster and Brown is very good, but outside of that, there are problems every where and the GM is 100% to blame for this mess of a roster.

That "conglomerate" of parts looked very good in two of the last three postseasons - postseasons in which Kyrie and Hayward were either gone or hurt. The cohesiveness and effort were good regardless of who was on the court.

The question is why the team is so toxic and dysfunctional THIS year.

Something is going on behind the scenes.  It's one thing to say that we're not yet good enough to compete for a championship. It's another To blame this epic dysfunction on a roster that is very similar to last year's. We are losing home games to ACTUAL conglomerates of trash like the Thunder. There is something foul afoot that we don't know about.

I don't know that Boston looked particularly good last year in the playoffs (beat the Sixers down their best player and beat Toronto in 7 on a neutral floor before having the Heat beat them handidly) and 3 post seasons ago they played two young teams that weren't ready before losing to Lebron.  Now advancing to the ECF is certainly an accomplishment, but those teams weren't contenders, clearly overachieved, and gave the fanbase a false sense of hope. 

And given what this year has been, I'd actually argue this current team has overachieved once again with an above .500 record.

Huh? The C's were dominating in the playoffs last year until that meltdown at the end of game 3 against Toronto. IMO that moment was the last consistently good basketball we've seen from this club. I think they stopped trusting each other after that. The blown coverage on that 3 is emblematic of our defense ever since.

BTW the Sixers' best player is Ben Simmons? that's news to me. And they are a top-3 or 4 team this year. But I guess beating them counts for nothing. Same with beating Giannis. And without an epic choke shooting 3-pointers we beat Lebron as well. It's not like we were even healthy in any of those series, but we still won most of them.

Don't say that doesn't matter.

I said that wrong, Embiid is obviously their best player, I mean to say one of the best players.

As for Toronto, the Raptors entered the 4th quarter of game 2 with an 8 point lead.  Not exactly the same thing as giving up a buzzer beating 3 to lose, but overall that was a close series from two fairly evenly matched teams.  Neither of which was a contender.

[Birdman]

I blame Ainge..having a D-league bench is unacceptable

[PhoSita]

As for Toronto, the Raptors entered the 4th quarter of game 2 with an 8 point lead.  Not exactly the same thing as giving up a buzzer beating 3 to lose, but overall that was a close series from two fairly evenly matched teams.  Neither of which was a contender.

You're kind of glossing over the fact that the Raptors were a very good team last year.  They played at a 60 win pace in the regular season -- the second best record in the league.  They had a +6.3 point differential.  They had the experience and pride of a team that won a championship the season before with the same cast of core players sans Kawhi.  They also had a highly regarded coach.  Defeating the Raptors in a 7 game series -- a very close one played on a neutral court -- is no mean feat.

You emphasize the fact that the Celtics didn't have to play in Toronto in that series, but you skip over the fact that the Celtics also never had the benefit of playing on their own court.  Playing on a neutral court works both ways -- that's why it's neutral.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

 

This will obviously be a critical off-season for the team, which starts with revamping this roster, especially the bench. However, the most important change may be correcting the offensive philosophy of the team. The offense now is basically a different player going one on one each time down the floor. An offense like that can have a negative effect on the defensive side too, as players could become less interested/engaged. As much as everyone around here loves them, Tatum and Brown are the worst culprits. Whatever happened to Brad’s offensive philosophy from his first few years in the league, where the ball always swung around, and the man taking the shot was usually wide open.

About a decade ago, a combination of Doc Rivers adjusting the starting lineup and KG, taking over caused an aged Celtics roster to rally and go all the way to the ECF where they took Lebron's Miami team to 7 games. The following year, Danny Since tried to get 'help' for that fire by bringing in the likes of Jason Terry and Courtney Lee off the bench. Unfortunately that squad was so streaky, they the finished the season with a .500 record, and got bounced in the first round of the playoffs by a resurgent New York Knicks.

This season kinda feels like that 2012-13 season we lost to the Knicks. I am wondering what is the likelihood Danny Since pushes the reset button the same way he did in 2013? Will the rebuild be more like when he initially took over as GM, and will Jason Tatum wait it out the way Paul Pierce did back in the early 2000s? I feel major changes are afoot.

[Surferdad]

This will obviously be a critical off-season for the team, which starts with revamping this roster, especially the bench. However, the most important change may be correcting the offensive philosophy of the team. The offense now is basically a different player going one on one each time down the floor. An offense like that can have a negative effect on the defensive side too, as players could become less interested/engaged. As much as everyone around here loves them, Tatum and Brown are the worst culprits. Whatever happened to Brad’s offensive philosophy from his first few years in the league, where the ball always swung around, and the man taking the shot was usually wide open.

About a decade ago, a combination of Doc Rivers adjusting the starting lineup and KG, taking over caused an aged Celtics roster to rally and go all the way to the ECF where they took Lebron's Miami team to 7 games. The following year, Danny Since tried to get 'help' for that fire by bringing in the likes of Jason Terry and Courtney Lee off the bench. Unfortunately that squad was so streaky, they the finished the season with a .500 record, and got bounced in the first round of the playoffs by a resurgent New York Knicks.

This season kinda feels like that 2012-13 season we lost to the Knicks. I am wondering what is the likelihood Danny Since pushes the reset button the same way he did in 2013? Will the rebuild be more like when he initially took over as GM, and will Jason Tatum wait it out the way Paul Pierce did back in the early 2000s? I feel major changes are afoot.

IIRC, the "reset" button meant doing the Big Trade with the Nets to jettison the aging PP & KG. I don't see any parallel with this team.

[TDurden]

As for one reason why Stevens might be less at fault for the drop in performance, MacMullan pointed to the free agent departure of Gordon Hayward.

“I’ll say it again, I’ve said it 100 times, everybody seemed so glad that Gordon Hayward was walking out that door,” said MacMullan. “Let me tell you guys, He was the big, strong wing defender that kept this unit humming. He was also the best facilitator on this team that sacrificed shots to make the extra pass last year. I can’t stress enough how bad it was that Gordon Hayward walked away for nothing.”


I didn't really follow the hornets this year, how'd Hayward do in their playoff game?

[tazzmaniac]

As for one reason why Stevens might be less at fault for the drop in performance, MacMullan pointed to the free agent departure of Gordon Hayward.

“I’ll say it again, I’ve said it 100 times, everybody seemed so glad that Gordon Hayward was walking out that door,” said MacMullan. “Let me tell you guys, He was the big, strong wing defender that kept this unit humming. He was also the best facilitator on this team that sacrificed shots to make the extra pass last year. I can’t stress enough how bad it was that Gordon Hayward walked away for nothing.”


I didn't really follow the hornets this year, how'd Hayward do in their playoff game?

He was injured late in the regular season and didn't play in their play-in games. 

[Big333223]

Is Gordon Hayward the most overrated player in the NBA?

Yes, he's dealt with injuries the last 4 years but it feels like everyone is always talking up this guy who, after 11 NBA seasons, has 1 all star appearance, only once averaged more than 20 ppg and has had 1 good playoff series. Everyone wants to talk about his passing like he's a great distributor and I don't see it.

He's a good basketball player but at best, he's a #3 guy on a contender and it seems like people talk about his like a franchise guy.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

This will obviously be a critical off-season for the team, which starts with revamping this roster, especially the bench. However, the most important change may be correcting the offensive philosophy of the team. The offense now is basically a different player going one on one each time down the floor. An offense like that can have a negative effect on the defensive side too, as players could become less interested/engaged. As much as everyone around here loves them, Tatum and Brown are the worst culprits. Whatever happened to Brad’s offensive philosophy from his first few years in the league, where the ball always swung around, and the man taking the shot was usually wide open.

About a decade ago, a combination of Doc Rivers adjusting the starting lineup and KG, taking over caused an aged Celtics roster to rally and go all the way to the ECF where they took Lebron's Miami team to 7 games. The following year, Danny Since tried to get 'help' for that fire by bringing in the likes of Jason Terry and Courtney Lee off the bench. Unfortunately that squad was so streaky, they the finished the season with a .500 record, and got bounced in the first round of the playoffs by a resurgent New York Knicks.

This season kinda feels like that 2012-13 season we lost to the Knicks. I am wondering what is the likelihood Danny Since pushes the reset button the same way he did in 2013? Will the rebuild be more like when he initially took over as GM, and will Jason Tatum wait it out the way Paul Pierce did back in the early 2000s? I feel major changes are afoot.

IIRC, the "reset" button meant doing the Big Trade with the Nets to jettison the aging PP & KG. I don't see any parallel with this team.

The regular season where the team would get really hot and win 5-6 games on the trot then lose 6 straight, is something both rosters did.