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Condemning Celtic statistic
« on: May 10, 2021, 09:49:09 AM »

Offline Ed Monix

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The Celtics this season have been down by 20 + on 13 occasions in the 68 games played this season…last season it was only 4.

I believe big changes are a necessity if they want to really compete. Especially considering how much the East has improved and will continue to improve.
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Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2021, 09:55:38 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Yeah, there’s no good way to spin that stat. 

My guess is that it is a factor of bad defense mixed with a lot of jump shots.  That seems to be the recipe for the other team going on runs.

And I still wish we hadn’t traded Theis.  He’s not the answer, but he made us better. 


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Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2021, 10:04:34 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Crazy stats from Sean Grande that are also [dang]ing

https://twitter.com/SeanGrandePBP/status/1391578106591318017?s=19

 
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2021, 10:04:57 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I believe big changes are a necessity if they want to really compete. Especially considering how much the East has improved and will continue to improve.

Agree.  They are going to have to take a fundamental look at this team and maybe retool or rebuild.

There are many reasons for it, the poor bench, lapses on D.   But one of the most [dang]ing ones to me is why do we always come out flat and lackadaisical?     It is completely unacceptable!

Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2021, 10:44:06 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I believe big changes are a necessity if they want to really compete. Especially considering how much the East has improved and will continue to improve.

Agree.  They are going to have to take a fundamental look at this team and maybe retool or rebuild.

There are many reasons for it, the poor bench, lapses on D.   But one of the most [dang]ing ones to me is why do we always come out flat and lackadaisical?     It is completely unacceptable!
I think pretty much everyone here sees that something has to give and the lack of effort to start the games is a big problem that needs to be addressed.  What those changes need to be is where there's a wide range of opinions.

Health has played a big part in the team's performance as has a decrease in the general talent level from last year (like Hayward or not or give little credit to the impact he had due to his constant unavailability to play, he still was the 3rd best player on this team last year). 

I don't know the solution to right this ship. 
-A change in attitude and effort is definitely needed.  The question is can that happen without changing personnel or coaching.   I'm not sure it can.  I just don't see a competitive fire in the eyes of many of the players that tells me they hate losing and will give their all to win every game.   
-A change in coaching philosophy should be under consideration.  Not saying we need to fire Brad and staff but his offensive strategy hasn't changed since he's been here --> live and die by 3's.  it sucks.  cold shooting nights are a guaranteed loss and we have far too many of them.  ice cold starts have become far more prevalent and it's impacting their efforts on defense leading to large, early deficits.  Brad needs to develop some options on offense that don't rely on outside shooting.  more driving to the basket.  more plays initiated from the post.  more plays using players cutting to the basket.
-A change in talent level is needed in order to become real contenders.  Sure, there's talent here but it's not enough based on what we've seen this season.  Will that change come from players improving?  I think so, to some degree.  Will that come from an actual training camp to get everyone on the same page?  probably. 
--None of that will address the holes in the front court though --> Timelord can't stay on the court, TT is horrible on offense, Kornet is third string at best, Tacko is just a novelty and the Semi/GWill combo as PFs off the bench is not getting it done.   
--Kemba is continuously getting picked on on defense.  His ballhandling is sub-par for a starting PG.  His offense is inconsistent. 
--Smart isn't the answer as a starting SG or PG because his offense is inconsistent at best and his ballhandling/ passing this season haven't been particularly good.  too many boneheaded plays and trying too hard at times which ends up having a negative impact in the game.

I think the C's have a solid wing rotation in Tatum/Brown/Fournier/Nesmith/Romeo and a couple of solid guards to come off the bench in Smart and Pritchard (I do not consider Smart to be someone I want as a starter but off the bench he's an impact player) but they need more talent in the front court that can play both ends of the court and actually stay healthy enough to play as well as starting PG/SG that can play both ends of the court effectively. 

Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2021, 10:50:54 AM »

Offline cons

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the easiest knee jerk reaction is they've tuned out the coach.

sometimes the simple easy answer is actually the right answer.

maybe we shouldn't overthink this.

but who knows?

but clearly they're talented enough to not be down 20 all the time.

Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2021, 11:11:37 AM »

Offline Ed Monix

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Crazy stats from Sean Grande that are also [dang]ing

https://twitter.com/SeanGrandePBP/status/1391578106591318017?s=19

 

That’s amazing, I don’t know how you can rationally understand that either.
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Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2021, 11:14:21 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Crazy stats from Sean Grande that are also [dang]ing

https://twitter.com/SeanGrandePBP/status/1391578106591318017?s=19

 

That’s amazing, I don’t know how you can rationally understand that either.

It’s especially weird because historically, the third-quarter had seemed to be our Achilles’ heel.


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Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2021, 11:50:03 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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As a runner I can definitely understand the concept of not really hitting a rhythm until you're halfway or further into an athletic endeavor.  I've often felt like I could run a better 5k on the back half of a 10k than I could starting from a standstill (naturally I warm up before a race but still).

I'm sure that metaphor doesn't work in a myriad ways.  But also I'm not a professional athlete and nothing really rides on me being prepared to run at or near my peak performance in the first portion of my runs.

Why are the Celtics consistently failing to get into rhythm until later in games?


Of course, part of the explanation for those nutso stats could just be that the Celts have routinely gotten down 10+ by half time, which means the other team inevitably lets up and allows the Celts to get back in it.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2021, 12:31:03 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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As a runner I can definitely understand the concept of not really hitting a rhythm until you're halfway or further into an athletic endeavor.  I've often felt like I could run a better 5k on the back half of a 10k than I could starting from a standstill (naturally I warm up before a race but still).

I'm sure that metaphor doesn't work in a myriad ways.  But also I'm not a professional athlete and nothing really rides on me being prepared to run at or near my peak performance in the first portion of my runs.

Why are the Celtics consistently failing to get into rhythm until later in games?

Of course, part of the explanation for those nutso stats could just be that the Celts have routinely gotten down 10+ by half time, which means the other team inevitably lets up and allows the Celts to get back in it.
as bad as the C's are in this regard when they have a large lead, they're not the only team with that bad habit.  I suspect a fair portion of their comebacks can be attributed to the other team getting complacent.

Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2021, 12:49:45 PM »

Online Moranis

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Crazy stats from Sean Grande that are also [dang]ing

https://twitter.com/SeanGrandePBP/status/1391578106591318017?s=19

 

That’s amazing, I don’t know how you can rationally understand that either.

It’s especially weird because historically, the third-quarter had seemed to be our Achilles’ heel.
Boston isn't very good and thus falls behind early, while the other team lets off the gas some in the 2nd half. 
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Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2021, 02:07:12 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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the easiest knee jerk reaction is they've tuned out the coach.

sometimes the simple easy answer is actually the right answer.

maybe we shouldn't overthink this.

but who knows?

but clearly they're talented enough to not be down 20 all the time.

The team was infinitely less talented in Stevens' first couple years but they listened and played hard, and hence didn't get whalloped by bad teams like this club does.

The Warriors plateaud under Mark Jackson and didn't take the next step until he was fired.

We can't properly judge this roster until we see them play under a new voice. Right now there is no baseline because there is no effort.

It's time for Brad Stevens and the Celtics to part ways. I predict it will be a mutually beneficial separation.



Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2021, 02:09:18 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Crazy stats from Sean Grande that are also [dang]ing

https://twitter.com/SeanGrandePBP/status/1391578106591318017?s=19

 

That’s amazing, I don’t know how you can rationally understand that either.

It’s especially weird because historically, the third-quarter had seemed to be our Achilles’ heel.
Boston isn't very good and thus falls behind early, while the other team lets off the gas some in the 2nd half.

Does any other team show something similar?  If it were just a factor of Boston not being very good, then you would expect most teams to show a similar distribution.


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Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2021, 02:16:19 PM »

Online footey

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I think the problem is more with poor execution, less with effort.

Also our personnel doesn’t fit Brad’s system. Or most any ball movement system. For example we are a below average ball handling team. We struggle penetrating into the paint. Plus having small guards makes it difficult to switch effectively. We end up double teaming a lot in the paint which leaves too many open corner 3s.

Improving execution will require someone who can better implement accountability especially of the stars. Brad is flunking that test.

Personnel change is probably needed in off season. Dangercart brought up the Horford for Kemba idea again, which may make sense, although will likely require a 3rd team.

Re: Condemning Celtic statistic
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2021, 02:19:25 PM »

Online Celtics2021

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the easiest knee jerk reaction is they've tuned out the coach.

sometimes the simple easy answer is actually the right answer.

maybe we shouldn't overthink this.

but who knows?

but clearly they're talented enough to not be down 20 all the time.

The team was infinitely less talented in Stevens' first couple years but they listened and played hard, and hence didn't get whalloped by bad teams like this club does.

The Warriors plateaud under Mark Jackson and didn't take the next step until he was fired.

We can't properly judge this roster until we see them play under a new voice. Right now there is no baseline because there is no effort.

It's time for Brad Stevens and the Celtics to part ways. I predict it will be a mutually beneficial separation.

Fixed it for you.  We've never had our top 7 players healthy for a single game, and are typically down more than one.  We can't properly judge this roster.  Period.