Author Topic: Derek Chauvin Trial  (Read 12239 times)

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial
« Reply #210 on: May 04, 2021, 09:51:24 AM »

Online Roy H.

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And this was probably pretty easy to catch by the defense and should have been brought up when he could have been questioned and removed during the trial (or before it even started).

Yeah, I do wonder about the defense team and what type of resources they had.  It’s interesting watching some of these trials that involve ordinary lawyers, unlike the dream team in the O.J. trial. 
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial
« Reply #211 on: May 04, 2021, 10:13:48 AM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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And this was probably pretty easy to catch by the defense and should have been brought up when he could have been questioned and removed during the trial (or before it even started).

Yeah, I do wonder about the defense team and what type of resources they had.  It’s interesting watching some of these trials that involve ordinary lawyers, unlike the dream team in the O.J. trial.
With a case of this magnitude and the attention it received from the get-go it would be awfully hard to find jurors that are are completely impartial or at least do not have some preconceived opinions, right? Beyond that, when this juror told the defense attorney that he had a "very favorable" opinion of Black Lives Matter, should that have been a reason for the defense to question his partiality?
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial
« Reply #212 on: May 04, 2021, 10:19:09 AM »

Online Roy H.

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And this was probably pretty easy to catch by the defense and should have been brought up when he could have been questioned and removed during the trial (or before it even started).

Yeah, I do wonder about the defense team and what type of resources they had.  It’s interesting watching some of these trials that involve ordinary lawyers, unlike the dream team in the O.J. trial.
With a case of this magnitude and the attention it received from the get-go it would be awfully hard to find jurors that are are completely impartial or at least do not have some preconceived opinions, right? Beyond that, when this juror told the defense attorney that he had a "very favorable" opinion of Black Lives Matter, should that have been a reason for the defense to question his partiality?

I don’t know what sort of jury pool the defendant was looking at, but yes, in my mind if somebody says that they are very favorably inclined toward an organization that is actively protesting the defendant, then I would try to have that juror excluded for cause.
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial
« Reply #213 on: May 04, 2021, 10:22:30 AM »

Offline Amonkey

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And this was probably pretty easy to catch by the defense and should have been brought up when he could have been questioned and removed during the trial (or before it even started).

Yeah, I do wonder about the defense team and what type of resources they had.  It’s interesting watching some of these trials that involve ordinary lawyers, unlike the dream team in the O.J. trial.

I wonder if this could have been purposely done by the defense team to go for a mistrial. I do think this taints the verdict a little bit. I know I wouldn't be comfortable with a verdict if a juror was found to have been part of Blue Lives Matter parade or something of that nature.

Question though, how does this work on the defense? Let's say if they asked him if he's been in a BLM protest and he said yes, and defense goes ahead with him. Can the defense question his judgement after or is it only if he failed to honestly answer a question?
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial
« Reply #214 on: May 04, 2021, 10:42:10 AM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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The march was held to commemorate the anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I Have a Dream” speech, but the National Action Network billed it as the “Commitment March: Get Your Knee Off Our Necks,” and several members of the Floyd family spoke.

So the juror can say he attended a Martin Luther King march.  Even as a legal technicality, it doesn't seem like much and from a more practical standpoint of does this information make me think that was not a fair trial, not in the least.

I can understand why Chauvin's lawyers may try to make something of this but it is a stretch.

The guy is wearing a BLM hat and a BLM shirt with a slogan that talks about “get your knee off our necks”.  Whose knee do you think was being referred to?

And you think that guy is impartial?  At least with that one particular juror — I say this with only slight hyperbole — that’s about the equivalent of having a “impartial” white supremacist on a jury trying a black man.

This is the type of thing that frustrates me. From my standpoint, every single person in America should look at this and say that, at the very least, this juror was highly suspect.  The juror is literally wearing a shirt before the trial that presumes the defendant’s guilt.
his cousins not him.  Doesn't change your point a ton, but it does change it.

Ah.  I saw it reported that it was him in the outfit.  I agree that that makes it less definitive.  Still, when somebody travels several hundred miles during a pandemic to attend a rally advertised as the “knee off our necks” march, and then doesn’t disclose it, I still think their partiality is in question.  It would be the same thing if a juror attended a “back the blue” rally pre-trial.
I have read a few more articles and saw a picture of the juror...I believe he is the one wearing the shirt and hat in question.
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial
« Reply #215 on: May 04, 2021, 10:57:54 AM »

Online Roy H.

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The march was held to commemorate the anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I Have a Dream” speech, but the National Action Network billed it as the “Commitment March: Get Your Knee Off Our Necks,” and several members of the Floyd family spoke.

So the juror can say he attended a Martin Luther King march.  Even as a legal technicality, it doesn't seem like much and from a more practical standpoint of does this information make me think that was not a fair trial, not in the least.

I can understand why Chauvin's lawyers may try to make something of this but it is a stretch.

The guy is wearing a BLM hat and a BLM shirt with a slogan that talks about “get your knee off our necks”.  Whose knee do you think was being referred to?

And you think that guy is impartial?  At least with that one particular juror — I say this with only slight hyperbole — that’s about the equivalent of having a “impartial” white supremacist on a jury trying a black man.

This is the type of thing that frustrates me. From my standpoint, every single person in America should look at this and say that, at the very least, this juror was highly suspect.  The juror is literally wearing a shirt before the trial that presumes the defendant’s guilt.
his cousins not him.  Doesn't change your point a ton, but it does change it.

Ah.  I saw it reported that it was him in the outfit.  I agree that that makes it less definitive.  Still, when somebody travels several hundred miles during a pandemic to attend a rally advertised as the “knee off our necks” march, and then doesn’t disclose it, I still think their partiality is in question.  It would be the same thing if a juror attended a “back the blue” rally pre-trial.
I have read a few more articles and saw a picture of the juror...I believe he is the one wearing the shirt and hat in question.

Fox News and the Washington Post are both reporting that, as well.

Which brings me back to the original point…. If a juror is seen wearing a shirt that essentially says “get Derek Chauvin’s knee off the necks of black people”, was justice done?

The verdict is going to stand, but all this does is taint things.
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial
« Reply #216 on: May 04, 2021, 01:28:39 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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The march was held to commemorate the anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I Have a Dream” speech, but the National Action Network billed it as the “Commitment March: Get Your Knee Off Our Necks,” and several members of the Floyd family spoke.

So the juror can say he attended a Martin Luther King march.  Even as a legal technicality, it doesn't seem like much and from a more practical standpoint of does this information make me think that was not a fair trial, not in the least.

I can understand why Chauvin's lawyers may try to make something of this but it is a stretch.

The guy is wearing a BLM hat and a BLM shirt with a slogan that talks about “get your knee off our necks”.  Whose knee do you think was being referred to?

And you think that guy is impartial?  At least with that one particular juror — I say this with only slight hyperbole — that’s about the equivalent of having a “impartial” white supremacist on a jury trying a black man.

This is the type of thing that frustrates me. From my standpoint, every single person in America should look at this and say that, at the very least, this juror was highly suspect.  The juror is literally wearing a shirt before the trial that presumes the defendant’s guilt.
his cousins not him.  Doesn't change your point a ton, but it does change it.

Ah.  I saw it reported that it was him in the outfit.  I agree that that makes it less definitive.  Still, when somebody travels several hundred miles during a pandemic to attend a rally advertised as the “knee off our necks” march, and then doesn’t disclose it, I still think their partiality is in question.  It would be the same thing if a juror attended a “back the blue” rally pre-trial.
I have read a few more articles and saw a picture of the juror...I believe he is the one wearing the shirt and hat in question.

Fox News and the Washington Post are both reporting that, as well.

Which brings me back to the original point…. If a juror is seen wearing a shirt that essentially says “get Derek Chauvin’s knee off the necks of black people”, was justice done?

The verdict is going to stand, but all this does is taint things.
it could but 11 other people all coming back that quickly with a unanimous decision on all 3 counts strongly suggests that substituting that juror with one of the alternates would not have altered the outcome. 

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial
« Reply #217 on: May 04, 2021, 02:29:43 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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There are no unbiased individuals. At least none with a brain in their head. Especially in a high-profile case like this. Imagine if we held the Supreme Court to this standard.

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial
« Reply #218 on: May 04, 2021, 03:08:08 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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There are no unbiased individuals. At least none with a brain in their head. Especially in a high-profile case like this. Imagine if we held the Supreme Court to this standard.

Of course, but don't be blatant with your bias.

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial
« Reply #219 on: May 04, 2021, 06:07:56 PM »

Offline MattyIce

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Derek Chauvin’s attorney Eric Nelson has officially filed a motion for a new trial.

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial
« Reply #220 on: May 04, 2021, 06:21:42 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Derek Chauvin’s attorney Eric Nelson has officially filed a motion for a new trial.

Pretty much every defense attorney I speak to agrees that the judge should have granted a change of venue and should have sequestered the jury.  Neither decision is likely to get him a new trial, but I'd love to sit down with the judge and ask him under what circumstances he'd ever grant those two remedies if not in this case.

Then add those factors, along with the words of the alternate juror (who had to dodge riots on her way home, and was candid that she was worried about protests) and the juror who wore BLM gear referencing Chauvin's knee to the neck.

It just feels dirty.  The verdict itself is certainly supportable; even if some lawyers disagree about Counts 2 and 3, it's something that juries can apply their own logic to.  Manslaughter was obvious to me.  But, justice means you follow the Constitutional guarantees of Due Process.  Whatever that high standard means, it isn't this.

That said, I get all of the counter-arguments.  The one that is the most true is that Due Process is shortcut constantly in this country, particularly for poor defendants.  The sad part for me is, the judges themselves engage in, and encourage, those shortcuts.  But, wouldn't it be nice if a judge in a high-profile case said, "Nope, we're doing it right this time".
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