Author Topic: NFL 2021 Season  (Read 10613 times)

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Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #270 on: May 01, 2021, 12:01:51 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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The poor performances against Indiana and the dreadful performance against Northwestern  where OSU has a huge talent advantage are especially concerning.  He did put up big numbers against Clemson but the Clemson secondary was terrible in that game. 

The big question I've heard on Fields is on his ability to process data quickly and go through his progressions.  Supposedly one of the NFL teams reviewed all his 200+ pass attempts and Fields threw to his primary target on all but 7 attempts. 

Personally I find his sack numbers interesting.  In 2020, 21 sacks in 8 games including 5 sacks by Indiana.  In 2019, 31 sacks in 14 games but 5 each in the two games against Wisconsin and 4 in the Clemson game.  That's a lot of sacks for a QB whose athleticism and mobility are so hyped. 

As a Bama fan, Manzel scared me.  Watson scared me.  Even with the dreadful Oklahoma defense, Kyler Murray scared me a bit.  Fields didn't scare me.
Nothing for nothing but Indiana had the 5th ranked defense in the country and Northwestern was the #1 ranked defense. Yes he played poorly against them but it is not like it was against bums.
According to whom?  I'd suggest those B10 defensives were overrated in the stats because they faced weak B10 offenses.  That supposed #1 Northwestern defense allowed Sermon to rush for 331 yards. 

Northwestern did beat a pretty poor Auburn team that played without their top RB.  But Bo Nix
put up reasonably good numbers against Northwestern while Fields numbers against NW were dreadful.   

Nix         25/42   292    1 TD   0 INT    125.8  Rtg
Fields      12/27  114   0 TD   2 INT      65.1  Rtg     

Even if Northwestern's defense was actually the #1 defense, Fields performance was dreadful in this era which heavily favors the offense.  If Fields performance drops off so much against better college defenses, how is he going to perform against NFL professional defenses?  Fields won't have the huge talent advantage in the NFL that he does at OSU.
According to Football Outsiders. it is not an exact science but the stats back up that both defenses are pretty good. It is fair to critique Fields' game but dude had two solid years in a major conference, something that cannot be said about Wilson, Lance or Jones.
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Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #271 on: May 01, 2021, 12:26:42 PM »

Offline footey

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The poor performances against Indiana and the dreadful performance against Northwestern  where OSU has a huge talent advantage are especially concerning.  He did put up big numbers against Clemson but the Clemson secondary was terrible in that game. 

The big question I've heard on Fields is on his ability to process data quickly and go through his progressions.  Supposedly one of the NFL teams reviewed all his 200+ pass attempts and Fields threw to his primary target on all but 7 attempts. 

Personally I find his sack numbers interesting.  In 2020, 21 sacks in 8 games including 5 sacks by Indiana.  In 2019, 31 sacks in 14 games but 5 each in the two games against Wisconsin and 4 in the Clemson game.  That's a lot of sacks for a QB whose athleticism and mobility are so hyped. 

As a Bama fan, Manzel scared me.  Watson scared me.  Even with the dreadful Oklahoma defense, Kyler Murray scared me a bit.  Fields didn't scare me.
Nothing for nothing but Indiana had the 5th ranked defense in the country and Northwestern was the #1 ranked defense. Yes he played poorly against them but it is not like it was against bums.
According to whom?  I'd suggest those B10 defensives were overrated in the stats because they faced weak B10 offenses.  That supposed #1 Northwestern defense allowed Sermon to rush for 331 yards. 

Northwestern did beat a pretty poor Auburn team that played without their top RB.  But Bo Nix
put up reasonably good numbers against Northwestern while Fields numbers against NW were dreadful.   

Nix         25/42   292    1 TD   0 INT    125.8  Rtg
Fields      12/27  114   0 TD   2 INT      65.1  Rtg     

Even if Northwestern's defense was actually the #1 defense, Fields performance was dreadful in this era which heavily favors the offense.  If Fields performance drops off so much against better college defenses, how is he going to perform against NFL professional defenses?  Fields won't have the huge talent advantage in the NFL that he does at OSU.
According to Football Outsiders. it is not an exact science but the stats back up that both defenses are pretty good. It is fair to critique Fields' game but dude had two solid years in a major conference, something that cannot be said about Wilson, Lance or Jones.

I didn't follow college football.  It seems the consensus out there is that Fields has a much higher ceiling than Mac Jones as an NFL quarterback.  While Mac Jones had superior stats last year, at least from an efficiency POV, many (including Pats fans on Pats Pulpit Blog) dismiss this on account of Jones having superior receivers and other personnel. 

I don't know. I watch the tape of both of them. They both look pretty darn good.  Jones looks like a prototypical pocket quarterback, who seems pretty comfortable in the pocket, seems to be able to maneuver around there, and seems to be able to process multiple reads very quickly.  Fields obviously is more athletic, and stronger.

I think the bias against Jones is more to do with the direction that the NFL seems to be headed, where the up and coming star QBs tend to be able to scramble and make plays when the set play breaks down, or where all the targets are covered.  Mahomes, Watson (?), Jackson, Murray, even Allen.  These types of QBs are more exciting.  Are they more successful?  Besides Mahomes, I'm not so sure, and even he had his reckoning with Mr. Brady both times in the playoffs. 

I think if a team is properly constructed (i.e., good offensive line protection, creative play calling, decent receivers), there will always be a place for a QB like Jones to succeed in the NFL.   I think his downside is Jarred Goff, and frankly I would not be surprised to see him surpass Goff pretty quickly. I think Jones is a much quicker decision maker.  And has a better arm. 

Would not surprise me if Jones had as good an NFL career as Fields. Or even better. The fact that he will be playing on for a better organization will be an advantage for him. 

How good is the Pats offensive line expected to be this season, or do we have to wait for the draft to figure that out? I didn't follow them much last season. 

Who is more motivated to beat Tom Brady than Bill Belichick?

Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #272 on: May 01, 2021, 01:09:24 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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I didn't follow college football.  It seems the consensus out there is that Fields has a much higher ceiling than Mac Jones as an NFL quarterback.  While Mac Jones had superior stats last year, at least from an efficiency POV, many (including Pats fans on Pats Pulpit Blog) dismiss this on account of Jones having superior receivers and other personnel. 

I don't know. I watch the tape of both of them. They both look pretty darn good.  Jones looks like a prototypical pocket quarterback, who seems pretty comfortable in the pocket, seems to be able to maneuver around there, and seems to be able to process multiple reads very quickly.  Fields obviously is more athletic, and stronger.

I think the bias against Jones is more to do with the direction that the NFL seems to be headed, where the up and coming star QBs tend to be able to scramble and make plays when the set play breaks down, or where all the targets are covered.  Mahomes, Watson (?), Jackson, Murray, even Allen.  These types of QBs are more exciting.  Are they more successful?  Besides Mahomes, I'm not so sure, and even he had his reckoning with Mr. Brady both times in the playoffs. 

I think if a team is properly constructed (i.e., good offensive line protection, creative play calling, decent receivers), there will always be a place for a QB like Jones to succeed in the NFL.   I think his downside is Jarred Goff, and frankly I would not be surprised to see him surpass Goff pretty quickly. I think Jones is a much quicker decision maker.  And has a better arm. 

Would not surprise me if Jones had as good an NFL career as Fields. Or even better. The fact that he will be playing on for a better organization will be an advantage for him. 

How good is the Pats offensive line expected to be this season, or do we have to wait for the draft to figure that out? I didn't follow them much last season. 

Who is more motivated to beat Tom Brady than Bill Belichick?
Jones is the non-sexy, unexciting QB. Everyone wants to find the next Mahommes but there is still a place for a heady, accurate, less athletic pocket QB. Jones is who I have expected the Pats to pick and for quite a while I was both excited and scared of him being the pick. What scared me was wondering if he was a product of playing with an absolutely stacked team. He certainly did benefit from being surrounded by talent but he showed that he was a player too. He is bright, makes the right play, is accurate and fits what Belicheck and McDaniels do. I read somewhere that he has actually been teach Bill O'Brien the Alabama offense for next year...to me that is pretty impressive. I also like what he seems to be as a person and a leader. He comes across like a good guy and someone his teammates rally around. Damien Harris posted something showing how excited he was to play with Jones again after the pick was made. Both Waddle and Smith seemed to favor him over Tua when asked to compare them. If you watched the draft you might have noticed that after both Waddle and Smith were picked Jones went to find them to congratulate them and he was clearly happy for them. He seems like a hard-worker. I have talked myself into being very excited about him.

As for the line, despite losing Thuney they are still a very good line (at least for this season) and maybe even a bit better.

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Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #273 on: May 01, 2021, 04:12:02 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Patriots picks so far today:
R4/#120: Rhamondre Stevenson, RB, Oklahoma
Looks to be a Blount-style runner, should be a good addition to the existing RB room.
R5/#177: Cameron McGrone, ILB, Michigan
I've seen some comparisons to Micah Parsons, but McGrone missed a lot of games in college. Only 20, so he's probably more of a long-term prospect than immediate plug-and-play guy.
R6/#188: Joshuah Bledsoe, FS, Missouri
Sounds like he might be more of a ST guy that gets the chance to compete for more. But more importantly, Edelman just retired so #11 is available...
I'm bitter.

Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #274 on: May 02, 2021, 03:42:50 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Patriots picks so far today:
R4/#120: Rhamondre Stevenson, RB, Oklahoma
Looks to be a Blount-style runner, should be a good addition to the existing RB room.
R5/#177: Cameron McGrone, ILB, Michigan
I've seen some comparisons to Micah Parsons, but McGrone missed a lot of games in college. Only 20, so he's probably more of a long-term prospect than immediate plug-and-play guy.
R6/#188: Joshuah Bledsoe, FS, Missouri
Sounds like he might be more of a ST guy that gets the chance to compete for more. But more importantly, Edelman just retired so #11 is available...
I like the McGrone pick, high-upside athletic LB that can sit back for a couple of years behind Judon, Hightower, Van Noy, Jennings and Uche for a while.

Would have infinitely preferred Kenneth Gainwell over Stevenson as an RB, but I guess with keeping James White we wouldn't have room for him. Still, a 250lb RB isn't anything to sneeze at
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Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #275 on: May 04, 2021, 08:05:58 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #276 on: May 04, 2021, 11:42:48 AM »

Online A Future of Stevens

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Patriots picks so far today:
R4/#120: Rhamondre Stevenson, RB, Oklahoma
Looks to be a Blount-style runner, should be a good addition to the existing RB room.
R5/#177: Cameron McGrone, ILB, Michigan
I've seen some comparisons to Micah Parsons, but McGrone missed a lot of games in college. Only 20, so he's probably more of a long-term prospect than immediate plug-and-play guy.
R6/#188: Joshuah Bledsoe, FS, Missouri
Sounds like he might be more of a ST guy that gets the chance to compete for more. But more importantly, Edelman just retired so #11 is available...
I like the McGrone pick, high-upside athletic LB that can sit back for a couple of years behind Judon, Hightower, Van Noy, Jennings and Uche for a while.

Would have infinitely preferred Kenneth Gainwell over Stevenson as an RB, but I guess with keeping James White we wouldn't have room for him. Still, a 250lb RB isn't anything to sneeze at
I too had thought he was a 250 pounder. I guess he shed weight for the combine? The NFL draft site has his measurable at 231 pounds.
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Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #277 on: May 04, 2021, 11:59:50 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Can you imagine being a Texans fan right now?

Has any other franchise unintentionally ran itself into the ground so quickly?  The lawsuits against Watson obviously aren’t the responsibility of the front office, assuming that they didn’t have knowledge of Watson’s alleged proclivities.  However, the number of self inflicted wounds seems almost unprecedented.
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Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #278 on: May 04, 2021, 12:03:09 PM »

Online A Future of Stevens

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Can you imagine being a Texans fan right now?

Has any other franchise unintentionally ran itself into the ground so quickly?  The lawsuits against Watson obviously aren’t the responsibility of the front office, assuming that they didn’t have knowledge of Watson’s alleged proclivities.  However, the number of self inflicted wounds seems almost unprecedented.

You could not write a better self destruction story. A few years in a row of cutting yourself off at the legs, but saved (relatively) by your star of a qb. And then boom, lawsuits. It effectively removed the one thing they still had going for them. He has to be radioactive at this point right? How do the Texans move forward?
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Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #279 on: May 04, 2021, 12:09:14 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Can you imagine being a Texans fan right now?

Has any other franchise unintentionally ran itself into the ground so quickly?  The lawsuits against Watson obviously aren’t the responsibility of the front office, assuming that they didn’t have knowledge of Watson’s alleged proclivities.  However, the number of self inflicted wounds seems almost unprecedented.

It's definitely up there.  One that pops into mind is the Millen-era Lions.


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Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #280 on: May 04, 2021, 02:51:03 PM »

Online Celtics2021

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Patriots picks so far today:
R4/#120: Rhamondre Stevenson, RB, Oklahoma
Looks to be a Blount-style runner, should be a good addition to the existing RB room.
R5/#177: Cameron McGrone, ILB, Michigan
I've seen some comparisons to Micah Parsons, but McGrone missed a lot of games in college. Only 20, so he's probably more of a long-term prospect than immediate plug-and-play guy.
R6/#188: Joshuah Bledsoe, FS, Missouri
Sounds like he might be more of a ST guy that gets the chance to compete for more. But more importantly, Edelman just retired so #11 is available...
I like the McGrone pick, high-upside athletic LB that can sit back for a couple of years behind Judon, Hightower, Van Noy, Jennings and Uche for a while.

Would have infinitely preferred Kenneth Gainwell over Stevenson as an RB, but I guess with keeping James White we wouldn't have room for him. Still, a 250lb RB isn't anything to sneeze at
I too had thought he was a 250 pounder. I guess he shed weight for the combine? The NFL draft site has his measurable at 231 pounds.

His last listing at Michigan was 236, so he's always been on the lighter side.  They used him in Devin Bush's role (who weighed 232, fwiw) as a linebacker missile to make all the tackles.  He wasn't nearly as good as Bush, who did in fact make all the tackles.  That was partly due to a weaker D-Line that let blockers get to him, but also because he didn't read the offense all that well and took more bad angles than you'd like.  He's certainly talented, but a 5th-round pick feels about right for him.

EDIT: I now realize you weren't talking about McGrone's weight, but Stevenson.  I'll leave my McGrone scounting report up anyway.

Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #281 on: May 04, 2021, 11:04:57 PM »

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Aaron Rodgers to Denver seems to be the most heard thing so far. If I were the Packers, I'd take whatever haul Denver has/will propose.

The AFC West is going to be crazy if so tho. Patrick Mahomes vs Aaron Rodgers twice a year, and maybe Denver might reclaim the division title again.


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Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #282 on: May 27, 2021, 10:16:13 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Dang, Tebow looks like he hit the juice.
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Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #283 on: May 27, 2021, 10:50:27 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Dang, Tebow looks like he hit the juice.

maybe the Jesus Juice

Re: NFL 2021 Season
« Reply #284 on: May 27, 2021, 10:54:22 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Dang, Tebow looks like he hit the juice.
Jeeeesh!
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