Don't underestimate the impact of losing Leon Powe, and TA and BBD being injured

[Redz]

Maybe I used the wrong terminology. By Alpha male, I'm referring to leadership. Tim Duncan is a more subdued guy but he is definately intense and he is a leader.  I don't quite see that with David Robinson though. He won once Duncan came along and he had good teams around him before Duncan arrived but didn't win.

So to me alpha male means the leader, someone people will follow and some one who carries other people with him.

It's a combination of skills and mentality.
KG has it, Bird has it, even DJ had it. Cowens had it
But Parish, McHale and Ainge didn't have it as players, they were just great players.
Pierce, as much as I love him, doesn't have it. Walker alwyas palyed that role and then it was KG.

It's not a knock, it's what it is, you have it or you don't. You can't learn it.

Kobe has it, Fisher has it. Bynum, Artest and Gasol don't have it.

You really think that Dr. J, one of the most prolific scorers of all time, wasn't as talented as Bird from a physical standpoint? I thought what separated both Bird and Magic ( as neither were grear run/jump athletes) was their BB IQ and their mentla intensity and leadership skills. But from a sheer physical talent level I thought their were many guys equal to or better than them. 

Scal's got it.  Seriously he does.  If he just had more talent.

(side note: loving the 5 minutes he's giving of late)

[nickagneta]

Dr J couldn't shoot as well as Bird.
Dr J couldn't pass as well as Bird.
Dr J couldn't rebound as well as Bird.
Dr J couldn't think the game as well as Bird.
Dr J didn't have court vision as well as Bird.

Dr. J was a great player. He was nowhere near the level of Bird as a player. It's like saying that Jason Kidd was as good a player as Magic. Kidd is a great player but nowhere near Magic's level. It's like saying Patrick Ewing was as good as Abdul Jabbar. Ewing is an all-time great, just not in Jabbar's level.

So again, your straw man argument that adding Bird, a player on a completely different level as Dr J, to that team makes them better simply because he's an emotional, alpha type guy doesn't hold water because Bird's talent alone would make that team better. And, you miss the point. The team I assembled would be fantastic because they are talented beyond measure and they could be world beaters and win even though they don't have emotional wear you emotions on your sleeves types.

[BballTim]

We need someone to close the lane and take some charges. This is not happening and the result is tons of uncontested layups by the opposition.

Last season we had 2 big men doing this on a consistent basis: Powe and Davis. This season we have about none. That's it.

Another good point, I hadn't even thought about that.  Really, I can't think of anyone taking charges this year other that Pierce a few times, and Scal (who seems to do it whenever he gets on the floor during non-garbage time).

I know Perk and Garnett don't do it, because they realize they are better utilized holding their ground, and protecting the basket, than playing the 50/50 game that is taking a charge.  But it really is surprising that we don't see that more out of Williams.

  I'd also like to point out that we're not giving up as many layups as everyone thinks. The difference between us now and 2 years ago is more perimeter defense.

[BballTim]

Dr J couldn't shoot as well as Bird.
Dr J couldn't pass as well as Bird.
Dr J couldn't rebound as well as Bird.
Dr J couldn't think the game as well as Bird.
Dr J didn't have court vision as well as Bird.

Dr. J was a great player. He was nowhere near the level of Bird as a player. It's like saying that Jason Kidd was as good a player as Magic. Kidd is a great player but nowhere near Magic's level. It's like saying Patrick Ewing was as good as Abdul Jabbar. Ewing is an all-time great, just not in Jabbar's level.

So again, your straw man argument that adding Bird, a player on a completely different level as Dr J, to that team makes them better simply because he's an emotional, alpha type guy doesn't hold water because Bird's talent alone would make that team better. And, you miss the point. The team I assembled would be fantastic because they are talented beyond measure and they could be world beaters and win even though they don't have emotional wear you emotions on your sleeves types.

  In defense of Dr. J, though, he should never be compared to Nique...

[BballTim]

It's a combination of skills and mentality.
KG has it, Bird has it, even DJ had it. Cowens had it
But Parish, McHale and Ainge didn't have it as players, they were just great players.
Pierce, as much as I love him, doesn't have it. Walker alwyas palyed that role and then it was KG.

  If Ainge didn't have it, none of our bench players since KG arrived do. He was very fiery and hard-nosed.

You really think that Dr. J, one of the most prolific scorers of all time, wasn't as talented as Bird from a physical standpoint? I thought what separated both Bird and Magic ( as neither were grear run/jump athletes) was their BB IQ and their mentla intensity and leadership skills. But from a sheer physical talent level I thought their were many guys equal to or better than them. 

  Bird was as prolific a scorer as Erving, and a better passer and rebounder. Sure, Dr. J was a better athlete, but he wasn't as skilled a player as Bird.

[nickagneta]

Dr J couldn't shoot as well as Bird.
Dr J couldn't pass as well as Bird.
Dr J couldn't rebound as well as Bird.
Dr J couldn't think the game as well as Bird.
Dr J didn't have court vision as well as Bird.

Dr. J was a great player. He was nowhere near the level of Bird as a player. It's like saying that Jason Kidd was as good a player as Magic. Kidd is a great player but nowhere near Magic's level. It's like saying Patrick Ewing was as good as Abdul Jabbar. Ewing is an all-time great, just not in Jabbar's level.

So again, your straw man argument that adding Bird, a player on a completely different level as Dr J, to that team makes them better simply because he's an emotional, alpha type guy doesn't hold water because Bird's talent alone would make that team better. And, you miss the point. The team I assembled would be fantastic because they are talented beyond measure and they could be world beaters and win even though they don't have emotional wear you emotions on your sleeves types.

  In defense of Dr. J, though, he should never be compared to Nique...

Oh so true. Dr J in the ABA was doing stuff no one had ever seen before and by the early 80's he was such a great all around player and leader.

[Fafnir]

We need someone to close the lane and take some charges. This is not happening and the result is tons of uncontested layups by the opposition.

Last season we had 2 big men doing this on a consistent basis: Powe and Davis. This season we have about none. That's it.

Another good point, I hadn't even thought about that.  Really, I can't think of anyone taking charges this year other that Pierce a few times, and Scal (who seems to do it whenever he gets on the floor during non-garbage time).

I know Perk and Garnett don't do it, because they realize they are better utilized holding their ground, and protecting the basket, than playing the 50/50 game that is taking a charge.  But it really is surprising that we don't see that more out of Williams.

  I'd also like to point out that we're not giving up as many layups as everyone thinks. The difference between us now and 2 years ago is more perimeter defense.

A lot of that is how much ground KG can cover making up for perimeter D too though.

[nickagneta]

We need someone to close the lane and take some charges. This is not happening and the result is tons of uncontested layups by the opposition.

Last season we had 2 big men doing this on a consistent basis: Powe and Davis. This season we have about none. That's it.

Another good point, I hadn't even thought about that.  Really, I can't think of anyone taking charges this year other that Pierce a few times, and Scal (who seems to do it whenever he gets on the floor during non-garbage time).

I know Perk and Garnett don't do it, because they realize they are better utilized holding their ground, and protecting the basket, than playing the 50/50 game that is taking a charge.  But it really is surprising that we don't see that more out of Williams.

  I'd also like to point out that we're not giving up as many layups as everyone thinks. The difference between us now and 2 years ago is more perimeter defense.

A lot of that is how much ground KG can cover making up for perimeter D too though.

And a lot more of that is for a long time Paul, Ray and Rondo had a complete indifference to guarding players on the perimeter and running them off the three point line.

[Fafnir]

We need someone to close the lane and take some charges. This is not happening and the result is tons of uncontested layups by the opposition.

Last season we had 2 big men doing this on a consistent basis: Powe and Davis. This season we have about none. That's it.

Another good point, I hadn't even thought about that.  Really, I can't think of anyone taking charges this year other that Pierce a few times, and Scal (who seems to do it whenever he gets on the floor during non-garbage time).

I know Perk and Garnett don't do it, because they realize they are better utilized holding their ground, and protecting the basket, than playing the 50/50 game that is taking a charge.  But it really is surprising that we don't see that more out of Williams.

  I'd also like to point out that we're not giving up as many layups as everyone thinks. The difference between us now and 2 years ago is more perimeter defense.

A lot of that is how much ground KG can cover making up for perimeter D too though.

And a lot more of that is for a long time Paul, Ray and Rondo had a complete indifference to guarding players on the perimeter and running them off the three point line.

Ray's gotten noticeably worse on the defensive end in my opinion. Age gets everyone in the end....

[ScoobyDoo]

I actually think it's unfair to Dr J to say he was far less talented than Bird. Diffent talent? Yes, less talented? I don't knwo about that. Very few people who have ever played the game can claim they could do what Dr. J could do ona  court. Is that not talent, if different, on a level of Bird's? They both were doign things very few people have ever done. Is one that much greater than the other in their own right?

Or maybe look at it another way;

1. Assume that Dr. J and Bird had the same talent levels. From a mental standpoint, who do you suppose would motivate you more and why?

Talent has nothing to do with:
A) Going head long out of bounds for a loose ball
B) Or diving nose first to the floor in a scrum
C) Or playing with a fiery energy and intensity on the court
D) Or the guy who everyone else just follows his lead
E) The guy who clearly, simply and without question is just "the leader" on the team. The one others "know" is the leader, even if other guys occaionally step up. There is always one main guy.

That is not a result of talent alone. Itis as much or more a result of emtional intensity and the ability to inpsire their teammates.

For us it is KG
For the Lakers it is Kobe
For orlando it's probably Dwight
For the 80's Celtics it was Bird. Lakers it was Magic.
Cleveland it's Lebron

But it is not just because of their talent.

That is the main reason why Bird would make a Duncan, Parish, Gervin, Kidd team so much better than  Dr. J lead team. If Dr J had Bird's relentless intensity and energy, his team would be a much better match for Bird's identical team.

You have to have someone driving the team mentally out there.

And for the second unit, it's the same just on a different level.

Watching the San Antone game I thought Duwan Blair mad ea great example. He would be a great, great fit on our second unit, He plays alot like Leon re his intensity and energy.

He gets you juiced watching him play and he gets the crowd going. That gets your teammates amped as well. And it's not just becasue he's a scrappy guy in the block, it's also the emotional intensity he plays with that makes the difference.

Pierce and Ray are great players but they simpl;y can't play the role KG does for our team, it's not in them.

Rasheed, if he were about 5-6 years yunger could probably be that guy for us off the bench. You have to have the ability and the energy.   
     
House, Shelden, Marquis? No. Leon, Posey, Duwan Blair? Yes. They have the right combination of skill and emotional intensity at the bench level to be that guy who is the emotional spark plug off the bench.

I am hoping Big Baby, who plays with some pretty good fire alot of times will be that guy for us. His young legs and that emotional energy off the bench, if he can bring it consistently, will catapult us to another level. I'm hoping Tony can also give us some young legs and physical D in spots as well.

I understand that Shelden is effective, I like him alot. And I understand in a sense how you can say numbers are numbers no matter how they come, as long as they come.

But basketball is an emotional, apssionate game driven by players who inpsire the rest of their teams to higher levels.

Therefore, how can you say that an inspirtional guy off the bench isn't as critical as the inspirational role the KG's, the Bird's or the Jordan's play at higher level as team leader and starting five leader?