Plan B - sign Kemba or Middleton or trade for Beal (poll)

[nickagneta]

Perhaps we need another thread on this, but I just want to understand better what we would have left if Kyrie and Horford left and we renounced all of our FAs. By my calculations from Spotrac, we would have $66.3M tied up in players currently under contract.

Hayward - $32.7M
Smart - $12.6M
Tatum - $7.8M
Brown - $6.5M
Yabusele - $3.1M
Williams - $2.0M
Ojeleye - $1.6M

I realize that is only 7 players so draft picks and cap holds would take effect to increase that $66.3M number. Heck, Baynes could opt in and push it up to $71.8M. Still, it seems like we should be able to sign Kemba outright if for some reason he had a desire to come here (projected cap of $109M). I suppose you could still make a Tatum/Smart/picks trade for AD after he was signed, as well.

If I am totally missing something (and this is likely), clearing Yabusele should be pretty easy, as well. Note, I am not advocating for any of this - I absolutely want Kyrie and Horford back.

Gotta figured given Baynes year he opts in. That's approximately $72 million. Cap holds for the draft picks equal about $7 million. Then there would be 2 empty roster spot cap holds to make sure the minimum amount of slots are filled. That's another $1.8 million.

That puts the salary at $80.8 million with a cap of $109 million. That gives you $28.2 million in cap space. The number for a max contract for Middleton or Walker starts at $32.7 million first year.

That's $4.5 million that would need to be created in cap space. The only way to create that space is salary dump a player making above $5.4 million a year because if you salary dump a player, their slot is still refilled with a $0.9 million empty roster slot hold.

So basically to get Kemba or Middleton, the Celtics gave to part ways completely with

Kyrie
Horford
Morris
Rozier
Theis
Wanamaker

Annnnnnnnnnd one of Smart, Tatum, Brown or Hayward.

Lose all that to sign a player to a max contract a player that isn't even top 20 in the league and never will be.

I believe you can trade for capspace

How the hell did Cavs do it all those years??

I said right in the paragraph where you highlighted the $4.5 million. I said they would need to salary dump a player making more than $5.4 million. That means a trade sending out the player for just a draft pick or even needing to send a pick with the player to complete it. Geesh, triboy. Read!!!!!!

[nickagneta]

Okay some sanity.

A Khris Middleton max contract, which you would need to pull him from the teat of Giannis, starts at $32 million a year.

If Kemba Walker makes any of the All-NBA teams(possibility for a 3rd team isn't out of the question), he is supermax eligible from Charlotte for 5 years $221 million. Charlotte would be stupid to pay him that but Charlotte is run by Michael Jordan, the guy that gave Nic Batum $120 million. So if he makes one of those teams, good luck luring him away from that contract.

But if he doesn't become eligible for a supermax, he also will need to be given a max deal starting at $32 million a year as well.

And just so everyone understands, to get $32 million under the cap you basically have to have Kyrie and Horford opt out and walk, renounce the rights to Morris, Rozier, Theis and Wanamaker and have to trade away in a salary dump either Brown, Tatum or Hayward.

All that to get to sign Kemba or Middleton, neither of which are, or will ever be, top 20 players in this league.

If Kyrie left, what are your thoughts on a guy like Ricky Rubio? I noticed in his previous contract, he was making roughly $14 million per, so he's not a max player but perhaps one tier below. Is it possible the Celts could free up enough space to acquire him or get him in a sign and trade? I only ask because I think he could be a viable option and it seems him and Hayward have a good relationship. Apparently Hayward lobbied for Utah to trade for him (before he ended up leaving anyway to come to Boston, lol.)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2719676-gordon-hayward-rumors-star-reportedly-told-jazz-he-wanted-ricky-rubio-trade

If Kyrie walks, I think the Celtics concentrate on developing Tatum and Brown as 1st and 2nd offensive options and make Smart the starting PG. In that case, Rubio doesn't make sense to me.

[gpap]

Okay some sanity.

A Khris Middleton max contract, which you would need to pull him from the teat of Giannis, starts at $32 million a year.

If Kemba Walker makes any of the All-NBA teams(possibility for a 3rd team isn't out of the question), he is supermax eligible from Charlotte for 5 years $221 million. Charlotte would be stupid to pay him that but Charlotte is run by Michael Jordan, the guy that gave Nic Batum $120 million. So if he makes one of those teams, good luck luring him away from that contract.

But if he doesn't become eligible for a supermax, he also will need to be given a max deal starting at $32 million a year as well.

And just so everyone understands, to get $32 million under the cap you basically have to have Kyrie and Horford opt out and walk, renounce the rights to Morris, Rozier, Theis and Wanamaker and have to trade away in a salary dump either Brown, Tatum or Hayward.

All that to get to sign Kemba or Middleton, neither of which are, or will ever be, top 20 players in this league.

If Kyrie left, what are your thoughts on a guy like Ricky Rubio? I noticed in his previous contract, he was making roughly $14 million per, so he's not a max player but perhaps one tier below. Is it possible the Celts could free up enough space to acquire him or get him in a sign and trade? I only ask because I think he could be a viable option and it seems him and Hayward have a good relationship. Apparently Hayward lobbied for Utah to trade for him (before he ended up leaving anyway to come to Boston, lol.)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2719676-gordon-hayward-rumors-star-reportedly-told-jazz-he-wanted-ricky-rubio-trade

If Kyrie walks, I think the Celtics concentrate on developing Tatum and Brown as 1st and 2nd offensive options and make Smart the starting PG. In that case, Rubio doesn't make sense to me.

I understand, but is there a way the Celts could attempt to free up more cap space to offer a free agent around the neighborhood of $14 mil per yr.?

[nickagneta]

Okay some sanity.

A Khris Middleton max contract, which you would need to pull him from the teat of Giannis, starts at $32 million a year.

If Kemba Walker makes any of the All-NBA teams(possibility for a 3rd team isn't out of the question), he is supermax eligible from Charlotte for 5 years $221 million. Charlotte would be stupid to pay him that but Charlotte is run by Michael Jordan, the guy that gave Nic Batum $120 million. So if he makes one of those teams, good luck luring him away from that contract.

But if he doesn't become eligible for a supermax, he also will need to be given a max deal starting at $32 million a year as well.

And just so everyone understands, to get $32 million under the cap you basically have to have Kyrie and Horford opt out and walk, renounce the rights to Morris, Rozier, Theis and Wanamaker and have to trade away in a salary dump either Brown, Tatum or Hayward.

All that to get to sign Kemba or Middleton, neither of which are, or will ever be, top 20 players in this league.

If Kyrie left, what are your thoughts on a guy like Ricky Rubio? I noticed in his previous contract, he was making roughly $14 million per, so he's not a max player but perhaps one tier below. Is it possible the Celts could free up enough space to acquire him or get him in a sign and trade? I only ask because I think he could be a viable option and it seems him and Hayward have a good relationship. Apparently Hayward lobbied for Utah to trade for him (before he ended up leaving anyway to come to Boston, lol.)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2719676-gordon-hayward-rumors-star-reportedly-told-jazz-he-wanted-ricky-rubio-trade

If Kyrie walks, I think the Celtics concentrate on developing Tatum and Brown as 1st and 2nd offensive options and make Smart the starting PG. In that case, Rubio doesn't make sense to me.

I understand, but is there a way the Celts could attempt to free up more cap space to offer a free agent around the neighborhood of $14 mil per yr.?

I guess but that probably starts with Horford opting out and renouncing almost everyone again. I wouldn't want to sacrifice our best big for Rubio.

[gpap]

Okay some sanity.

A Khris Middleton max contract, which you would need to pull him from the teat of Giannis, starts at $32 million a year.

If Kemba Walker makes any of the All-NBA teams(possibility for a 3rd team isn't out of the question), he is supermax eligible from Charlotte for 5 years $221 million. Charlotte would be stupid to pay him that but Charlotte is run by Michael Jordan, the guy that gave Nic Batum $120 million. So if he makes one of those teams, good luck luring him away from that contract.

But if he doesn't become eligible for a supermax, he also will need to be given a max deal starting at $32 million a year as well.

And just so everyone understands, to get $32 million under the cap you basically have to have Kyrie and Horford opt out and walk, renounce the rights to Morris, Rozier, Theis and Wanamaker and have to trade away in a salary dump either Brown, Tatum or Hayward.

All that to get to sign Kemba or Middleton, neither of which are, or will ever be, top 20 players in this league.

If Kyrie left, what are your thoughts on a guy like Ricky Rubio? I noticed in his previous contract, he was making roughly $14 million per, so he's not a max player but perhaps one tier below. Is it possible the Celts could free up enough space to acquire him or get him in a sign and trade? I only ask because I think he could be a viable option and it seems him and Hayward have a good relationship. Apparently Hayward lobbied for Utah to trade for him (before he ended up leaving anyway to come to Boston, lol.)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2719676-gordon-hayward-rumors-star-reportedly-told-jazz-he-wanted-ricky-rubio-trade

If Kyrie walks, I think the Celtics concentrate on developing Tatum and Brown as 1st and 2nd offensive options and make Smart the starting PG. In that case, Rubio doesn't make sense to me.

I understand, but is there a way the Celts could attempt to free up more cap space to offer a free agent around the neighborhood of $14 mil per yr.?

I guess but that probably starts with Horford opting out and renouncing almost everyone again. I wouldn't want to sacrifice our best big for Rubio.

Me either. I feel like we need Horford and his steady leadership. Besides, I feel a center is a much bigger need than a point guard. As you mentioned, Smart could easily be the starting point guard if Kyrie leaves. More importantly, we need someone who is at least 6'10 and can keep up with Giannis.

[nickagneta]

Okay some sanity.

A Khris Middleton max contract, which you would need to pull him from the teat of Giannis, starts at $32 million a year.

If Kemba Walker makes any of the All-NBA teams(possibility for a 3rd team isn't out of the question), he is supermax eligible from Charlotte for 5 years $221 million. Charlotte would be stupid to pay him that but Charlotte is run by Michael Jordan, the guy that gave Nic Batum $120 million. So if he makes one of those teams, good luck luring him away from that contract.

But if he doesn't become eligible for a supermax, he also will need to be given a max deal starting at $32 million a year as well.

And just so everyone understands, to get $32 million under the cap you basically have to have Kyrie and Horford opt out and walk, renounce the rights to Morris, Rozier, Theis and Wanamaker and have to trade away in a salary dump either Brown, Tatum or Hayward.

All that to get to sign Kemba or Middleton, neither of which are, or will ever be, top 20 players in this league.

If Kyrie left, what are your thoughts on a guy like Ricky Rubio? I noticed in his previous contract, he was making roughly $14 million per, so he's not a max player but perhaps one tier below. Is it possible the Celts could free up enough space to acquire him or get him in a sign and trade? I only ask because I think he could be a viable option and it seems him and Hayward have a good relationship. Apparently Hayward lobbied for Utah to trade for him (before he ended up leaving anyway to come to Boston, lol.)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2719676-gordon-hayward-rumors-star-reportedly-told-jazz-he-wanted-ricky-rubio-trade

If Kyrie walks, I think the Celtics concentrate on developing Tatum and Brown as 1st and 2nd offensive options and make Smart the starting PG. In that case, Rubio doesn't make sense to me.

I understand, but is there a way the Celts could attempt to free up more cap space to offer a free agent around the neighborhood of $14 mil per yr.?

I guess but that probably starts with Horford opting out and renouncing almost everyone again. I wouldn't want to sacrifice our best big for Rubio.

Me either. I feel like we need Horford and his steady leadership. Besides, I feel a center is a much bigger need than a point guard. As you mentioned, Smart could easily be the starting point guard if Kyrie leaves. More importantly, we need someone who is at least 6'10 and can keep up with Giannis.

Agree. If Kyrie goes elsewhere and there is no Davis trade, I think you have to go get someone like Bol Bol with one of your picks and fast track Williams development. Build around Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Smart, Williams and Bol as your future and Horford if he wants to stay at a discount. Use the MLE to fill in parts.

[Celtics4ever]

We can't sign anyone because the CAP FAIRY is not going to let us.

[BitterJim]

Perhaps we need another thread on this, but I just want to understand better what we would have left if Kyrie and Horford left and we renounced all of our FAs. By my calculations from Spotrac, we would have $66.3M tied up in players currently under contract.

Hayward - $32.7M
Smart - $12.6M
Tatum - $7.8M
Brown - $6.5M
Yabusele - $3.1M
Williams - $2.0M
Ojeleye - $1.6M

I realize that is only 7 players so draft picks and cap holds would take effect to increase that $66.3M number. Heck, Baynes could opt in and push it up to $71.8M. Still, it seems like we should be able to sign Kemba outright if for some reason he had a desire to come here (projected cap of $109M). I suppose you could still make a Tatum/Smart/picks trade for AD after he was signed, as well.

If I am totally missing something (and this is likely), clearing Yabusele should be pretty easy, as well. Note, I am not advocating for any of this - I absolutely want Kyrie and Horford back.

Gotta figured given Baynes year he opts in. That's approximately $72 million. Cap holds for the draft picks equal about $7 million. Then there would be 2 empty roster spot cap holds to make sure the minimum amount of slots are filled. That's another $1.8 million.

That puts the salary at $80.8 million with a cap of $109 million. That gives you $28.2 million in cap space. The number for a max contract for Middleton or Walker starts at $32.7 million first year.

That's $4.5 million that would need to be created in cap space. The only way to create that space is salary dump a player making above $5.4 million a year because if you salary dump a player, their slot is still refilled with a $0.9 million empty roster slot hold.

So basically to get Kemba or Middleton, the Celtics gave to part ways completely with

Kyrie
Horford
Morris
Rozier
Theis
Wanamaker

Annnnnnnnnnd one of Smart, Tatum, Brown or Hayward.

Lose all that to sign a player to a max contract a player that isn't even top 20 in the league and never will be.

I believe you can trade for capspace

How the hell did Cavs do it all those years??

You can't. Cap space is not a tangible thing that can be traded

You can trade a player's contract to another team (and if you trade them to a team that's under the cap you don't need to take back salary), which can open up cap space (but due to empty roster spot holds, usually not as much as you sent out).  That's different than trading for cap space, though, and was already brought up in nick's comment

[Geo123]

Trading for Beal, because the other options require gutting the team.

You can't just ignore the actual reality of our cap situation

+1