Author Topic: Cavs interested in Hayward  (Read 13660 times)

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Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2019, 12:30:32 PM »

RazzelnoDazzel

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A bad time to trade Hayward. He is just beginning to come around.

I think that’s the time you would trade him..

Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2019, 01:17:17 PM »

Offline gpap

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Honestly, I think Hayward needs to continue to step up.

Has he improved from the 1st half of the season?

Absolutely!

Do I think he could win us a couple of playoff games?

Sure do (and that clutch offensive rebound last night followed by tipping the ball in helped us win!)

But is he someone who should be deemed "untouchable"?

I personally don't. At least no yet. Not saying I would necessarily trade him to Cleveland for a bunch of expiring contracts HOWEVER, if Tatum is here next year then I think having Hayward and Tatum is redundant. Both guys are too talented for one to be coming off the bench.




Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2019, 08:11:04 AM »

Offline philr13

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I suspect that Hayward and Boston will give it through next season to see exactly what kind of player he is post-injury.

I believe he has a player option in the 4th year. He could opt-out and negotiate a new deal for less money per year after that. Horford is expected to do that this year.

I'm not sure there's really any urgency to trade him.

Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2019, 09:51:09 AM »

Offline Moranis

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The only way I can see this coming into play is an Anthony Davis trade where Hayward is the main salary going out.  And to be clear I don't think Boston will move Hayward, but that would be the only way.  So in that scenario the trade could be something like this

Cleveland - Hayward
Boston - Davis, Moore, Clarkson
New Orleans - Smith, Tatum, SAC, MEM, LAC, BOS 18 or BOS 19 (NO obviously cuts Smith as only a couple mill is guaranteed)

Let's say Boston brings back Morris and Baynes.  So Post-Trade Boston ends up something like this

PG - Irving, Clarkson
SG - Smart, Moore
SF - Brown, Morris
PF - Davis, Theis, Yabu
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I'd say that would be a reasonable trade in this situation for all parties and the team Boston ends up with is a clear and easy title contender.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 09:57:59 AM by Moranis »
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Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2019, 10:07:13 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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everything just seems wrong to trade him ,  backlash from players , fans , CBS ,  etc.   even if it makes sense.  I doubt Danny would trade him so quick .....if he did ....it would have to be a no brainer , he HAD to do it deal that landed Boston a player that nobody in their right mind could argue with.   

Trading him would be less popular than IT4 ,  even with Irving in place people grumbled loudly  .  There are maybe 5-6 players you could trade for and be worth the wrath that would rain down .

I would put ear plugs in and trad for AD if i were GM.

Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2019, 10:23:23 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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The only way I can see this coming into play is an Anthony Davis trade where Hayward is the main salary going out.  And to be clear I don't think Boston will move Hayward, but that would be the only way.  So in that scenario the trade could be something like this

Cleveland - Hayward
Boston - Davis, Moore, Clarkson
New Orleans - Smith, Tatum, SAC, MEM, LAC, BOS 18 or BOS 19 (NO obviously cuts Smith as only a couple mill is guaranteed)

Let's say Boston brings back Morris and Baynes.  So Post-Trade Boston ends up something like this

PG - Irving, Clarkson
SG - Smart, Moore
SF - Brown, Morris
PF - Davis, Theis, Yabu
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I'd say that would be a reasonable trade in this situation for all parties and the team Boston ends up with is a clear and easy title contender.
That's actually a reasonable deal all around assuming the Cavs are interested in Hayward.  Moore would be a nice addition.  Don't like Clarkson as a backup PG but he's on an expiring so maybe he could be moved somewhere else.

Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2019, 01:18:47 PM »

Offline Big333223

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The only way I can see this coming into play is an Anthony Davis trade where Hayward is the main salary going out.  And to be clear I don't think Boston will move Hayward, but that would be the only way.  So in that scenario the trade could be something like this

Cleveland - Hayward
Boston - Davis, Moore, Clarkson
New Orleans - Smith, Tatum, SAC, MEM, LAC, BOS 18 or BOS 19 (NO obviously cuts Smith as only a couple mill is guaranteed)

Let's say Boston brings back Morris and Baynes.  So Post-Trade Boston ends up something like this

PG - Irving, Clarkson
SG - Smart, Moore
SF - Brown, Morris
PF - Davis, Theis, Yabu
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I'd say that would be a reasonable trade in this situation for all parties and the team Boston ends up with is a clear and easy title contender.
That's actually a reasonable deal all around assuming the Cavs are interested in Hayward.  Moore would be a nice addition.  Don't like Clarkson as a backup PG but he's on an expiring so maybe he could be moved somewhere else.

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Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2019, 01:25:39 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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The only way I can see this coming into play is an Anthony Davis trade where Hayward is the main salary going out.  And to be clear I don't think Boston will move Hayward, but that would be the only way.  So in that scenario the trade could be something like this

Cleveland - Hayward
Boston - Davis, Moore, Clarkson
New Orleans - Smith, Tatum, SAC, MEM, LAC, BOS 18 or BOS 19 (NO obviously cuts Smith as only a couple mill is guaranteed)

Let's say Boston brings back Morris and Baynes.  So Post-Trade Boston ends up something like this

PG - Irving, Clarkson
SG - Smart, Moore
SF - Brown, Morris
PF - Davis, Theis, Yabu
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I'd say that would be a reasonable trade in this situation for all parties and the team Boston ends up with is a clear and easy title contender.
That's actually a reasonable deal all around assuming the Cavs are interested in Hayward.  Moore would be a nice addition.  Don't like Clarkson as a backup PG but he's on an expiring so maybe he could be moved somewhere else.

^This.

I would rather trade Smart than Hayward.


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Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2019, 01:41:01 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The only way I can see this coming into play is an Anthony Davis trade where Hayward is the main salary going out.  And to be clear I don't think Boston will move Hayward, but that would be the only way.  So in that scenario the trade could be something like this

Cleveland - Hayward
Boston - Davis, Moore, Clarkson
New Orleans - Smith, Tatum, SAC, MEM, LAC, BOS 18 or BOS 19 (NO obviously cuts Smith as only a couple mill is guaranteed)

Let's say Boston brings back Morris and Baynes.  So Post-Trade Boston ends up something like this

PG - Irving, Clarkson
SG - Smart, Moore
SF - Brown, Morris
PF - Davis, Theis, Yabu
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I'd say that would be a reasonable trade in this situation for all parties and the team Boston ends up with is a clear and easy title contender.
That's actually a reasonable deal all around assuming the Cavs are interested in Hayward.  Moore would be a nice addition.  Don't like Clarkson as a backup PG but he's on an expiring so maybe he could be moved somewhere else.

^This.

I would rather trade Smart than Hayward.
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Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2019, 02:11:28 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Why would Cleveland be interested in Hayward?
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Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2019, 02:27:12 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The only way I can see this coming into play is an Anthony Davis trade where Hayward is the main salary going out.  And to be clear I don't think Boston will move Hayward, but that would be the only way.  So in that scenario the trade could be something like this

Cleveland - Hayward
Boston - Davis, Moore, Clarkson
New Orleans - Smith, Tatum, SAC, MEM, LAC, BOS 18 or BOS 19 (NO obviously cuts Smith as only a couple mill is guaranteed)

Let's say Boston brings back Morris and Baynes.  So Post-Trade Boston ends up something like this

PG - Irving, Clarkson
SG - Smart, Moore
SF - Brown, Morris
PF - Davis, Theis, Yabu
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I'd say that would be a reasonable trade in this situation for all parties and the team Boston ends up with is a clear and easy title contender.
That's actually a reasonable deal all around assuming the Cavs are interested in Hayward.  Moore would be a nice addition.  Don't like Clarkson as a backup PG but he's on an expiring so maybe he could be moved somewhere else.

^This.

I would rather trade Smart than Hayward.
So would I.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 03:13:35 PM by Moranis »
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Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2019, 04:25:15 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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The only way I can see this coming into play is an Anthony Davis trade where Hayward is the main salary going out.  And to be clear I don't think Boston will move Hayward, but that would be the only way.  So in that scenario the trade could be something like this

Cleveland - Hayward
Boston - Davis, Moore, Clarkson
New Orleans - Smith, Tatum, SAC, MEM, LAC, BOS 18 or BOS 19 (NO obviously cuts Smith as only a couple mill is guaranteed)

Let's say Boston brings back Morris and Baynes.  So Post-Trade Boston ends up something like this

PG - Irving, Clarkson
SG - Smart, Moore
SF - Brown, Morris
PF - Davis, Theis, Yabu
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I'd say that would be a reasonable trade in this situation for all parties and the team Boston ends up with is a clear and easy title contender.
That's actually a reasonable deal all around assuming the Cavs are interested in Hayward.  Moore would be a nice addition.  Don't like Clarkson as a backup PG but he's on an expiring so maybe he could be moved somewhere else.

how is this not lopsided for Cavs? All they give up is Clarkson and JR for Hayward?? What am I missing?
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Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2019, 05:21:35 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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The only way I can see this coming into play is an Anthony Davis trade where Hayward is the main salary going out.  And to be clear I don't think Boston will move Hayward, but that would be the only way.  So in that scenario the trade could be something like this

Cleveland - Hayward
Boston - Davis, Moore, Clarkson
New Orleans - Smith, Tatum, SAC, MEM, LAC, BOS 18 or BOS 19 (NO obviously cuts Smith as only a couple mill is guaranteed)

Let's say Boston brings back Morris and Baynes.  So Post-Trade Boston ends up something like this

PG - Irving, Clarkson
SG - Smart, Moore
SF - Brown, Morris
PF - Davis, Theis, Yabu
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I'd say that would be a reasonable trade in this situation for all parties and the team Boston ends up with is a clear and easy title contender.
That's actually a reasonable deal all around assuming the Cavs are interested in Hayward.  Moore would be a nice addition.  Don't like Clarkson as a backup PG but he's on an expiring so maybe he could be moved somewhere else.

how is this not lopsided for Cavs? All they give up is Clarkson and JR for Hayward?? What am I missing?
Indeed, this deal couldn't be more accommodating to Cleveland in order to get them Hayward.  What's more, the deal is apparently based on the false assumption that Boston cannot make a deal for AD on their own.  This is not true because they could still get everything listed except JR Smith.  Boston could easily include a player who is better than Smith who is NOT Gordon Hayward.   ::)

Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2019, 05:31:34 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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The only way I can see this coming into play is an Anthony Davis trade where Hayward is the main salary going out.  And to be clear I don't think Boston will move Hayward, but that would be the only way.  So in that scenario the trade could be something like this

Cleveland - Hayward
Boston - Davis, Moore, Clarkson
New Orleans - Smith, Tatum, SAC, MEM, LAC, BOS 18 or BOS 19 (NO obviously cuts Smith as only a couple mill is guaranteed)

Let's say Boston brings back Morris and Baynes.  So Post-Trade Boston ends up something like this

PG - Irving, Clarkson
SG - Smart, Moore
SF - Brown, Morris
PF - Davis, Theis, Yabu
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I'd say that would be a reasonable trade in this situation for all parties and the team Boston ends up with is a clear and easy title contender.

So if I'm deciphering this correctly, you are trading Hayward, Tatum, SAC, MEM(even if doesn't convey?), BOS18 or BOS19

for

Davis, Moore, Clarkson

Why do we want Moore and Clarkson?   Not bad players, but hardly pieces we have to have.

That seems like overkill.  You are moving way more salary than necessary to bring in Davis and bringing in pieces that are nice, but that we don't need.

I just don't get what 'drives' this sort of deal.   NOP isn't going to be doing it for the joy of cutting Smith.   Boston shouldn't be doing it for some compelling need to add Moore & Clarkson.

The only team that really wants to do this would be CLE.   They dump Smith & Clarkson in exchange for Hayward!

But how does that become compelling for NOP or BOS?

NOP & BOS seems more likely to want a simple deal like Davis for Tatum + Smart + (Yabusele or other small contract) + picks.  That's literally all that needs to go across to make the deal work.

Is the idea here that somehow Boston wants to get rid of Hayward's contract?   I don't get that.  If you are adding Davis you are going all-in.  You want to have maximum talent for the next year in order to motivate him to sign long term.

And while I like what Smart brings to the team -- and really am impressed with how he improved his game this year --  the following starting lineup looks way more compelling to me than what you have above:

PG - Irving
SG - Brown
SF - Hayward
PF - Horford
C - Davis

(Granted Horford & Davis are sort of swappable at the 4-5).

I just don't see the 'albatross' of Hayward's contract to be a compelling reason to replace Hayward with Smart in that lineup.
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Re: Cavs interested in Hayward
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2019, 09:08:50 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The only way I can see this coming into play is an Anthony Davis trade where Hayward is the main salary going out.  And to be clear I don't think Boston will move Hayward, but that would be the only way.  So in that scenario the trade could be something like this

Cleveland - Hayward
Boston - Davis, Moore, Clarkson
New Orleans - Smith, Tatum, SAC, MEM, LAC, BOS 18 or BOS 19 (NO obviously cuts Smith as only a couple mill is guaranteed)

Let's say Boston brings back Morris and Baynes.  So Post-Trade Boston ends up something like this

PG - Irving, Clarkson
SG - Smart, Moore
SF - Brown, Morris
PF - Davis, Theis, Yabu
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I'd say that would be a reasonable trade in this situation for all parties and the team Boston ends up with is a clear and easy title contender.

So if I'm deciphering this correctly, you are trading Hayward, Tatum, SAC, MEM(even if doesn't convey?), BOS18 or BOS19

for

Davis, Moore, Clarkson

Why do we want Moore and Clarkson?   Not bad players, but hardly pieces we have to have.

That seems like overkill.  You are moving way more salary than necessary to bring in Davis and bringing in pieces that are nice, but that we don't need.

I just don't get what 'drives' this sort of deal.   NOP isn't going to be doing it for the joy of cutting Smith.   Boston shouldn't be doing it for some compelling need to add Moore & Clarkson.

The only team that really wants to do this would be CLE.   They dump Smith & Clarkson in exchange for Hayward!

But how does that become compelling for NOP or BOS?

NOP & BOS seems more likely to want a simple deal like Davis for Tatum + Smart + (Yabusele or other small contract) + picks.  That's literally all that needs to go across to make the deal work.

Is the idea here that somehow Boston wants to get rid of Hayward's contract?   I don't get that.  If you are adding Davis you are going all-in.  You want to have maximum talent for the next year in order to motivate him to sign long term.

And while I like what Smart brings to the team -- and really am impressed with how he improved his game this year --  the following starting lineup looks way more compelling to me than what you have above:

PG - Irving
SG - Brown
SF - Hayward
PF - Horford
C - Davis

(Granted Horford & Davis are sort of swappable at the 4-5).

I just don't see the 'albatross' of Hayward's contract to be a compelling reason to replace Hayward with Smart in that lineup.
Some of it is salary going forward based.  Is Boston really going to maintain 4 max contracts?  That is an awful lot of money to have tied up in 4 players.  You tie that much money up, I think you lose valuable bench players like Baynes and Morris.

And obviously I think Hayward is better than Smart, but in many ways the team needs Smart's ability to defend both guard positions more than Hayward's playmaking and scoring ability.  If you have Smart next to Irving, you can hide Irving a bit more defensively and save him up for offense and with adding an extra elite scorer like Davis you don't need someone like Hayward as much.

I also think there is absolutely an advantage in adding Clarkson and Moore to the bench.  They add quality depth on what would be expiring contracts (so no long term commitment).  At some point you need quality bench players (which also goes to Baynes and Morris), especially with Irving and Davis both having a propensity to miss a lot of games.  Horford isn't exactly a spring chicken either. 

As I said, I'd prefer to move Smart instead of Hayward as well, but I can absolutely see the reasons why moving Hayward makes more sense from a basketball, team construction, and financial standpoint moving forward.


As for New Orleans, the only salary they take in that scenario is Tatum, the draft picks (which they select), and Smith's buy out.  They also get rid of Moore.  That gives them a pretty clean cap sheet.  In many ways, that actually makes more sense then taking on someone like Smart, who while has a reasonable contract isn't exactly the type of player a rebuilding team would actually need or probably want on the roster.  Smart doesn't move the needle for them at all, while a cleaner cap actually might.  They can then move Holiday and really commit to rebuilding and building up the right way.

Cleveland takes on a lot of salary.  And while we've seen improvement from Hayward of late, he is still worth no where near his contract, and he could opt out in the summer of 2020 (or opt in and lock in a huge overvalued contract).  I don't think he could really bring back all that much in trade given those things.  Cleveland is paying a lot of money for what might not be a very good player.  It also provides cap relief to the Pelicans and bench depth to the C's.  They certainly could make out very well in the trade if Hayward regains his form, but if he isn't much better than he was this year, then it really isn't a good trade for the Cavs.
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