76ers (0-0) at Celtics (0-0) Game #1 10/18/22

[Phantom255x]

Getting another big at the deadline is something I already think they should do even if Timelord is expected to return in a few months, but have to admit Vonleh yesterday looked decent and I think even Griffin can help in those 5-10 minutes spurts. You don't need him to play heavy minutes and some of it is matchup dependent but I don't think he's a slouch on the roster

[ozgod]

Philly downfall will be their bench

Didn't someone here say their bench was better than ours because their No13, 14 and 15 players were better than ours 

[Goldstar88]

Philly downfall will be their bench

Didn't someone here say their bench was better than ours because their No13, 14 and 15 players were better than ours 

I don’t think anyone said that.

[ozgod]

Philly downfall will be their bench

Didn't someone here say their bench was better than ours because their No13, 14 and 15 players were better than ours 

I don’t think anyone said that.

I must have been mistaken then 

[Who]

I do think some overrate the 76ers depth. Harrell and house are very average players. It is interesting thybulle appears to be out of the rotation.

Yeah, pretty dodgy depth. I like their starting five and maybe Melton but things get murky fast.

I don't trust Montrez Harrell. He has been very productive in a scorer off the bench role on average to bad teams ... but he is only valuable when you are giving him touches and scoring options and most high level teams have superior offensive options in this case Embiid, Harden, Maxey and Tobias Harris. Do you really want to take the ball out of their hands to give it to Montrez Harrell? Not really. Not often.

So his offensive value declines on superior teams. And defensively Harrell is a train wreck. So he is often a net negative on superior teams. I see him as a "stat padder on average teams" sort of player.

I like Thybulle but he is a terrible fit next to Harden & Embiid. Those guys desperately need floor spacers to enhance their games. Not bad shooters who make their life more difficult. Thybulle needs to be traded but he won't because of Morey. Morey and his bloody statistics! Believing that quality advanced metrics against mediocre teams you play against in regular season give the same results as on-court value in a playoff series against a top team / top defensive team. It is apples and oranges. But Morey hasn't figured that out yet so he is likely to keep Thybulle and shoot his team in the foot.

I like Thybulle. I think he is a good player and a good bench player. Just a terrible fit on that basketball team. 

DeAnthony Melton is an interesting player and the bench player I feel the best about but his performances in the playoffs so far have been lousy so he is far from a good thing. He is one of the best small guard defenders in the league (like Avery Bradley was) but a dodgy offensive player. It is an open question how he'll do.

Jerian Grant is a nice 9th-10th man. Not capable of being relied upon for more than that. Danuel House is a solid 9th-10th man. So the bench perks up a bit at the back end but those 6th-8th men are either a question mark or likely a net negative come playoff team due to bad fit or limitations on winning ball teams.

[Who]

Celtics depth 6-10 was actually really good. One of the best in the league. The injury to Gallo has hurt that depth some but they still have a very good bench 6 through 10 without Gallo. I expect it is a top 10 bench but I haven't done my own persnal rankings yet but just from an eye ball perspective I expect them to be top 10.

The depth 11-15 is dodgy . What does that mean for the team? Well it means you are more exposed to injuries during the regular season and how exposed that leaves you depends on how injury prone your team's players are.

In terms of the playoffs, players 11-15 do not usually make much if any difference. There are a few teams that come around that do make value of the 11th-13th men by having a deeper bench with more variety rather than a top end bench with elite 6th man talent (like Brogdon, somewhat G-Will). So what does that mean? It means you can swap out an offensive orientated bench big man for a defensive orientated bench big man depending on matchups in the playoffs. That has utility. Most teams do not have that quality though including most Championship teams.

Depth 11-15 is more of a regular season issue than a playoff issue. Yeah you might need them if you have loads of injuries to key rotation players but if you have that many injuries you are not winning the title anyway. So more of a regular season issue.

[Who]

One point on last night's game... The Sixers defense down the stretch was downright awful, and it's hard for me to imagine they'll contend with the personnel they have, simply because they'll never defend at a high level.

The bulk of their minutes are going to come from a lineup featuring Maxey, Harden, Harris, PJ Tucker, and Embiid. Tucker and Embiid have good reputations as defenders, but Tucker is old and not what he once was, and Embiid is excellent down low but very vulnerable on the perimeter and defending pick and rolls. Meanwhile, that's a horrible defensive backcourt.

Point is, I think Harden and Embiid will have to be absolutely dominant offensively for the Sixers to contend this year. I think it's possible a team like Cleveland ends up with a better record than them this year.

I never understood Tucker on that team. They need a quick footed wing defender not a bulky physical defensive big forward.

Tobias Harris is slow and unable to check those quick wings. James Harden is their best wing defender currently. Not good. They needed a wing with foot-speed to protect those two guys.

Not a slow footed PF like Tucker who forces Harris to slide down a position and makes their team defense 3 through 5 (Tobias, Tucker, Embiid) one of the slowest in the league. It is hard to have a good team defense when you are that slow.

And it's not like Harden is going to make up for their defensive frailities and lack of foot-speed in the frontcourt. Maxey is fine defensively but nothing special.

They can be an offensive juggernaught though. Any team with Harden & Embiid can be that. Maxey and Tobias is just icing on the cake. Their supporting cast may hold their team offense back though. Quite a few offensive question marks on that bench. 

[Who]

I wonder if Philly would be better off breaking up that starting lineup.

Maybe moving Tobias Harris to the bench and starting Danuel House instead. House is nothing special but he is reasonably athletic, a reasonable shooter and a reasonable defender. Basically an alright place-holder sort of player.

That would give their bench some kind of difference maker to kick-start their team. Also, Tobias is so far down the pecking order behind Harden, Embiid and Maxey that you don't get to fully utilize him in that starting lineup. Too many hands to feed.

[Surferdad]

A lotta folks here sound intimidated by Embiid/Harden. Fair enough, but I don't see the depth required for Philly be a legit contender.

I rarely quote myself, but my comment above before the game seems pertinent to the post-game discussion.

[Vermont Green]

A lotta folks here sound intimidated by Embiid/Harden. Fair enough, but I don't see the depth required for Philly be a legit contender.

I rarely quote myself, but my comment above before the game seems pertinent to the post-game discussion.

This certainly proved true at least for 1 game, the first game of the season.  Just remember that last season, the Celtics were barely a 0.500 team for about a half a season before they figured things out and made it to the finals.

Based on the way that Harden looked in that game, I remain plenty concerned about the Sixers.  The starters played pretty well.  After that, not so much.  A lot of new faces on the team starting with Tucker and then most of the rotation bench.  We'll see if Doc can get them all on the same page.

I think PHI is going to be a plenty legit contender.  Moves can be made to shore up benches if needed (like we did last trade deadline).  We'll see.

[A Future of Stevens]

Getting another big at the deadline is something I already think they should do even if Timelord is expected to return in a few months, but have to admit Vonleh yesterday looked decent and I think even Griffin can help in those 5-10 minutes spurts. You don't need him to play heavy minutes and some of it is matchup dependent but I don't think he's a slouch on the roster

Yeah this team looks legit. Definitely should be on the market for a reliable backup big to spell TL and Horford. I agree Vonleh and Griffin looked alright, but we should definitely be in play for some buyout guys or trade dumps. Griffin looked like he functioned at passing within our offense. That alone makes him useful in small doses.