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Brady or Belichick?

Brady
7 (63.6%)
Belichick
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Brady or Belichick
« on: September 15, 2021, 01:05:56 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Not a lot going on in the NBA right now,
So I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss....

Who played the bigger role in the Patriots success over the last two decades, Tom or Bill? Also, now that Brady won last year without Bill, how important is it for Belichick’s legacy for him to win a Super Bowl without Tom? Can he still be considered the greatest coach of all time if he doesn’t.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 01:13:40 PM by Goldstar88 »

Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2021, 01:09:39 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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51% Tom Brady
49% Bill Belichick

Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2021, 01:12:35 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Bill won 2 Super Bowls as the Giants defensive coordinator back in the 80's. There is no "need" for him to win another to cement any legacy. That legacy is cemented in place and he will be the greatest football coach ever, when it's all said and done.

That's not to say, with his competitive fire he doesn't want to win more titles, but I am not sure it's driven by some need to prove he was more instrumental in the Pats' success than Tom Brady.

As for who was more instrumental to the Pats' success, it's a chicken and egg conundrum. I think it was both of them, regardless of what Tom does in Tampa.

Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2021, 01:16:17 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Players are always more important than coaches.  The gap is a bit less in football than other sports, but winning championships is always about having talent.
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Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2021, 01:16:36 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I agree with nick.  The legacy of both is secure.  Both would have won without the other, but neither would have won as much.


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Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2021, 01:39:42 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Bill won 2 Super Bowls as the Giants defensive coordinator back in the 80's. There is no "need" for him to win another to cement any legacy. That legacy is cemented in place and he will be the greatest football coach ever, when it's all said and done.

That's not to say, with his competitive fire he doesn't want to win more titles, but I am not sure it's driven by some need to prove he was more instrumental in the Pats' success than Tom Brady.

As for who was more instrumental to the Pats' success, it's a chicken and egg conundrum. I think it was both of them, regardless of what Tom does in Tampa.
I agree with this. Brady winning without Belichik last season would seem to suggest he was capable of winning without him BUT are we sure that Tom Brady, the 6th round pick who was constantly being accused of being a "system QB" and "just a game manager" for the first 6 years of his career would have developed into the winner that he did with a different coach?

Beats me, but I think it's a question worth asking.
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Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2021, 01:43:23 PM »

Online KG Living Legend

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Bill won 2 Super Bowls as the Giants defensive coordinator back in the 80's. There is no "need" for him to win another to cement any legacy. That legacy is cemented in place and he will be the greatest football coach ever, when it's all said and done.

That's not to say, with his competitive fire he doesn't want to win more titles, but I am not sure it's driven by some need to prove he was more instrumental in the Pats' success than Tom Brady.

As for who was more instrumental to the Pats' success, it's a chicken and egg conundrum. I think it was both of them, regardless of what Tom does in Tampa.



 Oh no. Bill took last year's title from Brady SUPER personal.  As evidence by spending a quarter billion dollars on players that probably aren't worth the money.

 Very uncharacteristic from Bill, and the most money ever spent in free agency.

 Tom made his point last year.  I can do this GM thing better than you Bill, and so far he's right.

Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2021, 04:12:31 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I look at championships as players get 80%, 20% management staff.

QB is do or die for teams. You need an crazy good team to win with a bad QB. I don't know how much percent a single QB gets maybe 30% max?

Headcoach vs assistant coaches how much credit do I give to the Head maybe 10%. Bill is also a gm to some degree so extra 4%.

So depending on year TB is around 20%-30%, Bill is 10%-15%.

So I give more credit to TB.

Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2021, 04:20:05 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I look at championships as players get 80%, 20% management staff.

QB is do or die for teams. You need an crazy good team to win with a bad QB. I don't know how much percent a single QB gets maybe 30% max?

Headcoach vs assistant coaches how much credit do I give to the Head maybe 10%. Bill is also a gm to some degree so extra 4%.

So depending on year TB is around 20%-30%, Bill is 10%-15%.

So I give more credit to TB.

If Bill is both coach & GM, then he deserves a helluva lot more than 10-15%.  Especially building teams under salary cap restrictions, doing the draft work,  and constructing two almost completely different dynastic teams.


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Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2021, 04:51:49 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I look at championships as players get 80%, 20% management staff.

QB is do or die for teams. You need an crazy good team to win with a bad QB. I don't know how much percent a single QB gets maybe 30% max?

Headcoach vs assistant coaches how much credit do I give to the Head maybe 10%. Bill is also a gm to some degree so extra 4%.

So depending on year TB is around 20%-30%, Bill is 10%-15%.

So I give more credit to TB.

If Bill is both coach & GM, then he deserves a helluva lot more than 10-15%.  Especially building teams under salary cap restrictions, doing the draft work,  and constructing two almost completely different dynastic teams.
The issue is the first dynasty he was less gm and less hands in everything. Brady was also less of a QB first two chips. There was a ton of carry over. So both played lesser value roles to the wins.

Second run TB was clearly the best player in the game and Bill I felt was slipping with a lot of hit and miss picks and signings.

Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2021, 04:57:54 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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Obviously it's Brady lol.

I blame Belichick for holding Brady back in the 2017 Superbowl when he benched Butler and threw in Jordan Richards. Wasted Brady another year and a SB ring.

Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2021, 05:11:25 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I look at championships as players get 80%, 20% management staff.

QB is do or die for teams. You need an crazy good team to win with a bad QB. I don't know how much percent a single QB gets maybe 30% max?

Headcoach vs assistant coaches how much credit do I give to the Head maybe 10%. Bill is also a gm to some degree so extra 4%.

So depending on year TB is around 20%-30%, Bill is 10%-15%.

So I give more credit to TB.

If Bill is both coach & GM, then he deserves a helluva lot more than 10-15%.  Especially building teams under salary cap restrictions, doing the draft work,  and constructing two almost completely different dynastic teams.
The issue is the first dynasty he was less gm and less hands in everything. Brady was also less of a QB first two chips. There was a ton of carry over. So both played lesser value roles to the wins.

Second run TB was clearly the best player in the game and Bill I felt was slipping with a lot of hit and miss picks and signings.

How so?  He & Pioli basically had to get out of the salary hell that Grier had gotten the Pats in.  He won a Super Bowl by bargain shopping personnel.  He also drafted two rookies who played key roles in that championship in Seymour & Light.

Also, who besides Brady & Wilfork was carried over btw the SB49 and SB49 teams?  There are almost two complete different identities between those two teams.


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Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2021, 05:30:45 PM »

Offline JBcat

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Bill won 2 Super Bowls as the Giants defensive coordinator back in the 80's. There is no "need" for him to win another to cement any legacy. That legacy is cemented in place and he will be the greatest football coach ever, when it's all said and done.

That's not to say, with his competitive fire he doesn't want to win more titles, but I am not sure it's driven by some need to prove he was more instrumental in the Pats' success than Tom Brady.

As for who was more instrumental to the Pats' success, it's a chicken and egg conundrum. I think it was both of them, regardless of what Tom does in Tampa.



 Oh no. Bill took last year's title from Brady SUPER personal.  As evidence by spending a quarter billion dollars on players that probably aren't worth the money.

 Very uncharacteristic from Bill, and the most money ever spent in free agency.

 Tom made his point last year.  I can do this GM thing better than you Bill, and so far he's right.

I don’t understand the nfl cap as much as the nba, but I’m pretty sure Bill couldn’t really spend a lot of money in recent years in free agency due to dead capital money from the Super Bowls run.  Only this past season he was able to get back to spending, and it helps not having to pay Brady’s salary if you want to go on a free agent spending spree.

Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2021, 05:40:16 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I look at championships as players get 80%, 20% management staff.

QB is do or die for teams. You need an crazy good team to win with a bad QB. I don't know how much percent a single QB gets maybe 30% max?

Headcoach vs assistant coaches how much credit do I give to the Head maybe 10%. Bill is also a gm to some degree so extra 4%.

So depending on year TB is around 20%-30%, Bill is 10%-15%.

So I give more credit to TB.

If Bill is both coach & GM, then he deserves a helluva lot more than 10-15%.  Especially building teams under salary cap restrictions, doing the draft work,  and constructing two almost completely different dynastic teams.
The issue is the first dynasty he was less gm and less hands in everything. Brady was also less of a QB first two chips. There was a ton of carry over. So both played lesser value roles to the wins.

Second run TB was clearly the best player in the game and Bill I felt was slipping with a lot of hit and miss picks and signings.

How so?  He & Pioli basically had to get out of the salary hell that Grier had gotten the Pats in.  He won a Super Bowl by bargain shopping personnel.  He also drafted two rookies who played key roles in that championship in Seymour & Light.

Also, who besides Brady & Wilfork was carried over btw the SB49 and SB49 teams?  There are almost two complete different identities between those two teams.
No the Parcels carry over to when Bill took over. And the in coaching his assistant coaches setup a lot of the offense and special teams. Bill got more hands on when they left. Same with GM work. When the other guys left he then got more involved. He used to rely on others more.

Re: Brady or Belichick
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2021, 05:49:10 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I look at championships as players get 80%, 20% management staff.

QB is do or die for teams. You need an crazy good team to win with a bad QB. I don't know how much percent a single QB gets maybe 30% max?

Headcoach vs assistant coaches how much credit do I give to the Head maybe 10%. Bill is also a gm to some degree so extra 4%.

So depending on year TB is around 20%-30%, Bill is 10%-15%.

So I give more credit to TB.

If Bill is both coach & GM, then he deserves a helluva lot more than 10-15%.  Especially building teams under salary cap restrictions, doing the draft work,  and constructing two almost completely different dynastic teams.
The issue is the first dynasty he was less gm and less hands in everything. Brady was also less of a QB first two chips. There was a ton of carry over. So both played lesser value roles to the wins.

Second run TB was clearly the best player in the game and Bill I felt was slipping with a lot of hit and miss picks and signings.

How so?  He & Pioli basically had to get out of the salary hell that Grier had gotten the Pats in.  He won a Super Bowl by bargain shopping personnel.  He also drafted two rookies who played key roles in that championship in Seymour & Light.

Also, who besides Brady & Wilfork was carried over btw the SB49 and SB49 teams?  There are almost two complete different identities between those two teams.
No the Parcels carry over to when Bill took over. And the in coaching his assistant coaches setup a lot of the offense and special teams. Bill got more hands on when they left. Same with GM work. When the other guys left he then got more involved. He used to rely on others more.

So who was the one that brought in guys like Antowain Smith, Bryan Cox, Mike Vrabel, Roman Pfifer, David Patten, Bobby Hamilton, Anthony Pleasant, Larry Izzo?   There was some Parcells and Carroll carryover but Belichick reshaped that team quite extensively.  His game plan for SB36 is one of the greatest game plans put together.  I think you're sleeping on the impact he made in the early days.


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