Are we the same as the early 2000's ?

[tenn_smoothie]

Celtics - Early 2000's were led by two young All-Star wings (Pierce & Walker) and a collection of good but not great players.
(Also coached by ex-college guys Pitino and O'Brien)

Celtics - Current team is led by two young All-Star wings (Tatum & Brown) and a collection of good but not great players.
(Coached by ex-college guy Stevens, until this season)

Are we stuck in the same cycle of good but not great seasons with no end in sight unless fate once again makes a trade for superstars available ?
(I realize the team declined in the mid-2000's, but don't see that happening with the current group)

And I don't think Karl Anthony Townes is the answer. He is talented, but would be the last player to change the culture of a franchise the way Kevin Garnett did. The attitude and mindset that Garnett brought to the Celtics were every bit as important as the talent upgrade.

[Goldstar88]

Tatum and Brown>Pierce and Walker. Jayson is a great player and Jaylen is on his way there. Both are 2-3 years away from there prime, too.  Patience..

[BudweiserCeltic]

Celtics - Early 2000's were led by two young All-Star wings (Pierce & Walker) and a collection of good but not great players.
(Also coached by ex-college guys Pitino and O'Brien)

Celtics - Current team is led by two young All-Star wings (Tatum & Brown) and a collection of good but not great players.
(Coached by ex-college guy Stevens, until this season)

Are we stuck in the same cycle of good but not great seasons with no end in sight unless fate once again makes a trade for superstars available ?
(I realize the team declined in the mid-2000's, but don't see that happening with the current group)

And I don't think Karl Anthony Townes is the answer. He is talented, but would be the last player to change the culture of a franchise the way Kevin Garnett did. The attitude and mindset that Garnett brought to the Celtics were every bit as important as the talent upgrade.

I think you're overrating the supporting cast they had (and Walker)... to say nothing of 2 of the worst trades that came during that era... moving Joe Johnson and acquiring Vin Baker.

[gouki88]

I think Tatum is better than Pierce and Brown is better than Walker, and I think our supporting players are better than the ones we had then.

[tenn_smoothie]

I very well could be and yes, I would say Brown is a better player than Antoine Walker. My comparison is not a perfect match and I hope that I am wrong, but you cannot ignore the similarities and Paul Pierce is better than Jayson Tatum until proven otherwise.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I very well could be and yes, I would say Brown is a better player than Antoine Walker. My comparison is not a perfect match and I hope that I am wrong, but you cannot ignore the similarities and Paul Pierce is better than Jayson Tatum until proven otherwise.

It's not about a perfect match, it's about a complete mischaracterization of the group of players we had during the early 2000's. There's nothing to compare with that team and this one regardless if we end up in the same or nearly the same destination.

Those teams were trash, at times looking good because the EAST was pure crap, but those teams didn't have anything to offer other than some Paul Pierce brilliant moments here and there.

[gouki88]

I very well could be and yes, I would say Brown is a better player than Antoine Walker. My comparison is not a perfect match and I hope that I am wrong, but you cannot ignore the similarities and Paul Pierce is better than Jayson Tatum until proven otherwise.

I think Tatum has the athletic tools to be a more impactful defender, and he's a more reliable perimeter shooter. His simple size advantage should make him able to reach higher levels - plus, is on a better age trajectory.

[Celtics2021]

I think Tatum is better than Pierce and Brown is better than Walker, and I think our supporting players are better than the ones we had then.

Yes, Tatum and Brown definitely outpace the two Celtic stars of the 01-02 team, and certainly the supporting cast is better.  TimeLord is vastly superior to Tony Battie.  Smart better than Kenny Anderson (although that’s closer).  Richardson and Schröder both better than Erick Strickland and Eric Williams.  Horford outclasses Potapenko, and the list goes on.

The main difference, and the potential superiority of the 01-02 C’s is that Walker and Pierce played 6700 minutes between them, both averaging over 40 minutes per game, limiting the impact of their inferior supporting cast because they were always on the court.  No way that happens with the C’s this year, so we need to rely on the others more, and the difference between them and the J’s will be more acutely felt.

[LilRip]

It’s not about being better, but being better relative to your competition. As big of a Pierce fan as I am, I think Tatum can already be considered in the top 10-15 players of the league, which I’m not sure Pierce was at the time. JB is better than Walker in absolutes, but is relatively around Walker’s level (read: budding all-star) when compared vs the rest of the league. As an aside, I think the talent level of the league has generally risen vs 20 years ago.

All that said… the teams are actually fairly similar I’d say. Fortunately, we haven’t surrounded the Jays with old vets. I think Smart/TL/etc. won’t be on the decline anytime soon (although Horford will be). For this team to break through, I do think Tatum needs to take another leap from perennial all star to at least fringe MVP candidate (or surefire All-NBA candidate) and/or a 3rd star needs to come in.

Maybe I’m bullish on Tatum but I do think it’s in the cards this year. His playmaking got better as the year progressed and with another offseason tucked in his belt, I think he’s going to look dominant out there.

[Csfan1984]

Pierce and Walker had a lot more grit than Tatum and Brown but Tatum and Brown are more talented. Same goes for the teams overall. Feel this club has more talent across the board while the 2000s team had some edge. Biggest issue stopping this club is the competition today features super teams that the 2000s club didn't have to battle. It's a lot harder getting to the ECF alone.

[JBcat]

Celtics - Early 2000's were led by two young All-Star wings (Pierce & Walker) and a collection of good but not great players.
(Also coached by ex-college guys Pitino and O'Brien)

Celtics - Current team is led by two young All-Star wings (Tatum & Brown) and a collection of good but not great players.
(Coached by ex-college guy Stevens, until this season)

Are we stuck in the same cycle of good but not great seasons with no end in sight unless fate once again makes a trade for superstars available ?
(I realize the team declined in the mid-2000's, but don't see that happening with the current group)

And I don't think Karl Anthony Townes is the answer. He is talented, but would be the last player to change the culture of a franchise the way Kevin Garnett did. The attitude and mindset that Garnett brought to the Celtics were every bit as important as the talent upgrade.

I think you're overrating the supporting cast they had (and Walker)... to say nothing of 2 of the worst trades that came during that era... moving Joe Johnson and acquiring Vin Baker.

What could have been if we kept Joe Johnson instead of Kedrick Brown.  Trading Joe really hurt.

[timpiker]

Nice analogy.

[greg683x]

Until Tatum can get to the free throw line like Pierce did, im still taking Paul as the better player.  Especially in a playoff game

[Rosco917]

This coming year will be an interesting year IMO. The bench is improved. Brown isn't a kid anymore, he has enough games under his belt at this point to be considered nearly a finished product. I just can't shake this feeling Tatum will never allow Brown to ever become the "first banana." Meaning, with the pace the Celtics play at, Brown is what he is.

Besides, you can't just predict like magic when a players prime will be, some players stop growing at 25, (see: Wiggles Walker) never learning how to influence a game without scoring the ball.     

I'd like to see improved team IQ, they need to appreciate the value of an open shot...that's not their own, less one on one play, better ball movement, and a re-commitment to team defense. Hopefully team health won't be a continual concern too. 

Last years team was not a fun team to watch. They were predictable, boring at times, and dare I say lazy.

If we see an up and down team this year similar to last, with a first round playoff out...yeah, we may be the same as 2000.

[Neurotic Guy]

Well, Antoine used to annoy me with his 3's as much as Smart annoys me now.

I just looked at their career stats from 3:

Antoine:  4.8 attempts per game  1.6 made = 32.5%
Marcus:   4.7 attempts per game  1.5 made = 32%

At least Marcus doesn't wiggle.