Seconds From ‘The G.O.A.T’ Discussion

[Ed Monix]

This guy.

The large man collecting his MVP trophy in ‘jorts’ and sandals.

I have a feeling because of Tim Duncan’s quite demeanour and lack of media focus, people have already forgotten that he was only seconds removed from having a career comparative to Michael Jordan.
 
Although it is revisionist history, if Ray Allen does not hit that infamous 3-pointer, the San Antonio Spurs win the 2013 NBA Finals in 6 games. Given how weak the Heat were in 2014 and how comprehensively beaten in the finals, there is a good chance San Antonio go back-to-back and Duncan retires with 6 championships.

If you remove the Heat miracle sequence, Duncan goes undefeated in the Finals, with only one series (2005) going to a 7th game, not only does he match Jordan’s six rings, but he does so with a completely changing cast where the only constant is himself and Gregg Popovich.

Although Jordan never had a finals go past 6 games, Duncan’s win/loss record in the finals would be a superior 24-9 compared to Jordan’s 24-11.

Factoring in Duncan’s impressive 19 year nba career, there is a real argument that without the Ray Allen dagger, Duncan would be in the GOAT discussion, sandals and all.

[KG Living Legend]

 Best power forward of all time. Not a bad title.

[Goldstar88]

I think KG is the most talented PF of all time and I would take him over Duncan. Better two way player and leader. If you put Kevin on the Spurs with Pop as coach and those same players, KG would have 5 rings.

[Walker Wiggle]

I think KG is the most talented PF of all time and I would take him over Duncan. Better two way player and leader. If you put Kevin on the Spurs with Pop as coach and those same players, KG would have 5 rings.

Not sure about that. Duncan was absolutely filthy in his prime and, like Russell, figured out ways to get his team to the championship as he aged. He was the perfect personality for that Spurs franchise as well. Just an awesome player who is way too easily passed over when discussing the all-time greats.

[Goldstar88]

I think KG is the most talented PF of all time and I would take him over Duncan. Better two way player and leader. If you put Kevin on the Spurs with Pop as coach and those same players, KG would have 5 rings.

Not sure about that. Duncan was absolutely filthy in his prime and, like Russell, figured out ways to get his team to the championship as he aged. He was the perfect personality for that Spurs franchise as well. Just an awesome player who is way too easily passed over when discussing the all-time greats.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Duncan. I just feel like at their absolute peak, KG was better. He’s a more versatile scorer, better defender, Passer and leader, Imo. They are very close, but I’d take prime KG.

[KG Living Legend]

 Check my screen name. I loved KG. However remember Duncan was the go to guy his rookie year over David Robinson.

 Not only that but it wasn't even close. Duncan was so much better as a scorer as a rookie.  Remember all the talk that KG couldn't take over games in the fourth quarter.  That was true.

 Kevin needed a Pierce,  Kobe, or Tmac sidekick much more than Duncan did. Also Duncans strength advantage was huge over KG for a long time.

 Edge to TD without a doubt.

[moiso]

 Check my screen name. I loved KG. However remember Duncan was the go to guy his rookie year over David Robinson.

 Not only that but it wasn't even close. Duncan was so much better as a scorer as a rookie.  Remember all the talk that KG couldn't take over games in the fourth quarter.  That was true.

 Kevin needed a Pierce,  Kobe, or Tmac sidekick much more than Duncan did. Also Duncans strength advantage was huge over KG for a long time.

 Edge to TD without a doubt.

This is all true, especially the point about taking over in the 4th.  It seemed like Duncan had monster games every time it was really needed in the playoffs.

[Somebody]

 Check my screen name. I loved KG. However remember Duncan was the go to guy his rookie year over David Robinson.

 Not only that but it wasn't even close. Duncan was so much better as a scorer as a rookie.  Remember all the talk that KG couldn't take over games in the fourth quarter.  That was true.

 Kevin needed a Pierce,  Kobe, or Tmac sidekick much more than Duncan did. Also Duncans strength advantage was huge over KG for a long time.

 Edge to TD without a doubt.

There's only so much value in a role like that though (especially when neither player were ideal first options like their wing contemporaries). KG eventually became a comparable scorer against stronger defences when he started peaking in the mid-2000s, and he made up for that gap in scoring with his passing and playmaking.

[Goldstar88]

 Check my screen name. I loved KG. However remember Duncan was the go to guy his rookie year over David Robinson.

 Not only that but it wasn't even close. Duncan was so much better as a scorer as a rookie.  Remember all the talk that KG couldn't take over games in the fourth quarter.  That was true.

 Kevin needed a Pierce,  Kobe, or Tmac sidekick much more than Duncan did. Also Duncans strength advantage was huge over KG for a long time.

 Edge to TD without a doubt.

KG came into the league out of high school as an 18 year old kid. It’s irrelevant who was better as a rookie. Again, KG is a more versatile scorer, a better  rebounder, defender, Passer and leader. KG did take over games, Did you watch him in the playoffs when he was on the the T-Woves?  He was dominant on both ends. He didn’t have to be the go to scorer in Boston with Ray and Pierce on the team. Duncan had hall of fame sidekicks for his entire career. Kawhi and David Robinson are better players than Pierce or Ray.

[Roy H.]

 Check my screen name. I loved KG. However remember Duncan was the go to guy his rookie year over David Robinson.

 Not only that but it wasn't even close. Duncan was so much better as a scorer as a rookie.  Remember all the talk that KG couldn't take over games in the fourth quarter.  That was true.

 Kevin needed a Pierce,  Kobe, or Tmac sidekick much more than Duncan did. Also Duncans strength advantage was huge over KG for a long time.

 Edge to TD without a doubt.

KG came into the league out of high school as an 18 year old kid. It’s irrelevant who was better as a rookie. Again, KG is a more versatile scorer, a better  rebounder, defender, Passer and leader. KG did take over games, Did you watch him in the playoffs when he was on the the T-Woves?  He was dominant on both ends. He didn’t have to be the go to scorer in Boston with Ray and Pierce on the team. Duncan had hall of fame sidekicks for his entire career. Kawhi and David Robinson are better players than Pierce or Ray.

What do you mean by “more versatile scorer”?

I’d also put their defense and rebounding on about the same level.  And, leadership is in the eye of the beholder.

And, to me, the “look at the Twolves playoff games” argument doesn’t sway me.  KG lost six straight series in the first round, had one good run, then missed the playoffs three straight years.

Winning matters, and there’s clear separation there.

[Jiri Welsch]

Duncan is the best power forward of all time. KG is one of the best power forwards of all time. KGLL and Roy are right here!

[Goldstar88]

 Check my screen name. I loved KG. However remember Duncan was the go to guy his rookie year over David Robinson.

 Not only that but it wasn't even close. Duncan was so much better as a scorer as a rookie.  Remember all the talk that KG couldn't take over games in the fourth quarter.  That was true.

 Kevin needed a Pierce,  Kobe, or Tmac sidekick much more than Duncan did. Also Duncans strength advantage was huge over KG for a long time.

 Edge to TD without a doubt.

KG came into the league out of high school as an 18 year old kid. It’s irrelevant who was better as a rookie. Again, KG is a more versatile scorer, a better  rebounder, defender, Passer and leader. KG did take over games, Did you watch him in the playoffs when he was on the the T-Woves?  He was dominant on both ends. He didn’t have to be the go to scorer in Boston with Ray and Pierce on the team. Duncan had hall of fame sidekicks for his entire career. Kawhi and David Robinson are better players than Pierce or Ray.

What do you mean by “more versatile scorer”?

I’d also put their defense and rebounding on about the same level.  And, leadership is in the eye of the beholder.

And, to me, the “look at the Twolves playoff games” argument doesn’t sway me.  KG lost six straight series in the first round, had one good run, then missed the playoffs three straight years.

Winning matters, and there’s clear separation there.

KG had a better offensive arsenal. More moves. Rebounding was close, but KG was on another level defensively. Garnett was going up against prime shaq and Kobe with virtually no help. Who was his sidekick, Wally Sczerbiak? Duncan had all time greats in Robinson and Kawhi one of the best coaches ever. Winning does matter, but so does the environment each player was operating in. Duncan was in a much better situation.

[colincb]

I'll take KG also. He was a better pure shooter than Duncan as evidenced by his performace at the FT line (79% vs 70%), and had better assist and steal numbers. Duncan played far more games at center than Garnett did, but his shooting and rebounding stats are only barely better as a result. He also played on better teams by far which helps his stats. Now you can argue the other side with a respectable argument, but neither of them are the GOAT regardless.

The GOAT is Bill Russell, who didn't give a [dang] about his stats once a game was won (unlike the ultimate stat-chaser Wilt) and who was ranked number 7 in the world as a high jumper for those clowns that say he couldn't play in today's NBA despite his 7-4 wingspan and the dramatic advances that have been made in conditioning and sports science. 11 rings, a gold medal, 2 NCAA chips and maybe the biggest upset in NBA history in 1969. Jordan or Lebron are number 2 in comparison.

[Somebody]

 Check my screen name. I loved KG. However remember Duncan was the go to guy his rookie year over David Robinson.

 Not only that but it wasn't even close. Duncan was so much better as a scorer as a rookie.  Remember all the talk that KG couldn't take over games in the fourth quarter.  That was true.

 Kevin needed a Pierce,  Kobe, or Tmac sidekick much more than Duncan did. Also Duncans strength advantage was huge over KG for a long time.

 Edge to TD without a doubt.

KG came into the league out of high school as an 18 year old kid. It’s irrelevant who was better as a rookie. Again, KG is a more versatile scorer, a better  rebounder, defender, Passer and leader. KG did take over games, Did you watch him in the playoffs when he was on the the T-Woves?  He was dominant on both ends. He didn’t have to be the go to scorer in Boston with Ray and Pierce on the team. Duncan had hall of fame sidekicks for his entire career. Kawhi and David Robinson are better players than Pierce or Ray.

What do you mean by “more versatile scorer”?

I’d also put their defense and rebounding on about the same level.  And, leadership is in the eye of the beholder.

And, to me, the “look at the Twolves playoff games” argument doesn’t sway me.  KG lost six straight series in the first round, had one good run, then missed the playoffs three straight years.

Winning matters, and there’s clear separation there.

Winning should only matter when both players enjoy similar supporting casts during their primes, and KG never really had that during his time in Minnesota. The one year where that wasn't the case had him reach the WCF and push the Lakers to six games without his second-best player (losing Cassell hurt that Wolves team more than other title contenders during that era because of how top-heavy that squad was), and he missed the playoffs for three straight years on an injury-riddled team that barely missed the cut in one of the toughest conference in NBA history and two historically bad teams before going to Boston:

In the first half of the ’06 season, Minnesota hovered around .500 before panic-trading for flotsam, and in 2007, again floated at .500 before a coaching change formally derailed the year. In those two seasons, they were outscored with Garnett off the court by 11.9 points per 48 in 2,021 minutes, approaching some of the extreme lows in history. It was commendable that those teams sniffed .500 given that the roster was replete with replacement players who could barely make the league.

Anyways, Garnett-led teams never really dropped the ball whenever his support was adequate or good: no one would say that his '04 campaign is underwhelming, Celtics fans still adore what he did in '08 and even a post-ACL KG got Boston competing with the juggernauts of the league when he was nowhere the same player he was at his best.

[gouki88]

 Check my screen name. I loved KG. However remember Duncan was the go to guy his rookie year over David Robinson.

 Not only that but it wasn't even close. Duncan was so much better as a scorer as a rookie.  Remember all the talk that KG couldn't take over games in the fourth quarter.  That was true.

 Kevin needed a Pierce,  Kobe, or Tmac sidekick much more than Duncan did. Also Duncans strength advantage was huge over KG for a long time.

 Edge to TD without a doubt.

KG came into the league out of high school as an 18 year old kid. It’s irrelevant who was better as a rookie. Again, KG is a more versatile scorer, a better  rebounder, defender, Passer and leader. KG did take over games, Did you watch him in the playoffs when he was on the the T-Woves?  He was dominant on both ends. He didn’t have to be the go to scorer in Boston with Ray and Pierce on the team. Duncan had hall of fame sidekicks for his entire career. Kawhi and David Robinson are better players than Pierce or Ray.

What do you mean by “more versatile scorer”?

I’d also put their defense and rebounding on about the same level.  And, leadership is in the eye of the beholder.

And, to me, the “look at the Twolves playoff games” argument doesn’t sway me.  KG lost six straight series in the first round, had one good run, then missed the playoffs three straight years.

Winning matters, and there’s clear separation there.

KG had a better offensive arsenal. More moves. Rebounding was close, but KG was on another level defensively. Garnett was going up against prime shaq and Kobe with virtually no help. Who was his sidekick, Wally Sczerbiak? Duncan had all time greats in Robinson and Kawhi one of the best coaches ever. Winning does matter, but so does the environment each player was operating in. Duncan was in a much better situation.

I agree that KG had the better arsenal, but he was more hesitant to score more often than Duncan was.