Celtics (51-21) at Pacers (32-42) 3/28

[Juneauz]

I'm new here so I probably should shut up... but this forum has an attitude problem.

Rondo sucks, Davis sucks, Kristic sucks... Bla bla bla
And guys really sucking like Allen and Green are hardly mentioned.
I don't get it

Here's the thing, Juneauz.  A lot of people on this forum have been following this incarnation of the Celtics (and many other incarnations) for the last few years, especially closely the last 4-6 months.  They have done so with the deep seated belief that this team can win a championship.  Anything less than that will be a disappointment.  This is, for all intents and purposes, our last real shot at a title with this group.  After this year, it's lockout and then rebuilding time. 

So many people are getting really worked up and riled up and disgusted and embarrassed and ashamed because what they're seeing before their eyes is this team breaking down and falling short before they even get to the playoffs.  They're seeing happen again what they saw happen in the last half of last season leading up to the playoffs, which resulted in a loss in the Finals.  The team just ran out of gas last year.  Didn't have the legs, or the depth, or home court.  The window is closing, and #18 is slipping away.

In other words, this all may seem like a gross overreaction to one game, but the last month has been pretty brutal.  And it all appears to be a very ominous, disturbing sign of things to come.

I see what you're saying, PosImpos.
but I've been laughing and crying with the celtics just like you guys, in the last ten years. I don't miss a game, and I didn't miss one even when we were losing 20 in a row back in the days.
I'm frustrated just like you are, and I totally HATED the trade.
But what I don't get, is blaming always the same guys even when they play great, or never mention the "untachables" even when they play badly.

in the end, Danny Ainge is the one we should be really blaming for all of this.

But some guys here watch celtics games just to diss Rondo and BBD and will always do even if it makes no sense, just like today.

sorry for the poor spelling, I'm not from US

[celticinorlando]

The trade destroyed the chemistry. It is obvious. They have mentality gone into the ground because of it. Danny panicked and it has cost is a chance at 18.  There will be no big run this playoffs...just shaq in a suit...baby shooting over and over.and a nice spring for golf

[greenhead85]

I honestly think the roster is ok. Except for giving away Erden since we really need extra length.

The team had the best 2 quarters production (1st and 3rd) and the worst 2 quarters production (2nd and 4th) of the game.

Doc is really lacking creativity. He is so poor in  pacing players, managing playing time of the veterans and utilizing the talents of the bench (Green, Sasha, Bradley and Arroyo). The bench guys are a talented bunch who can contribute in well-timed manner even in frequent short spurts. None of the Pacers played beyond 33 minutes and they are even younger than us! Now is the best time to give exposure of the other bench players. Our overall W-L standing at the end of the season,I guess, will more or less be at number 3 and that is achievable even by using the bench guys.

[LilRip]

and a nice spring for golf

well, i do love that type of green as well.

[Roy H.]

Well, Danny Granger just came out and said that we missed Perk, so at least somebody sees it.

well then, that settles it. always good to have the opinion of basketball analyst extraordinaire danny granger.

Yeah, there's definitely no need to trust the guys actually playing against us.

He went on to say they wanted to take advantage of Hibberts size over Baby. If Shaq or Jermaine played tonight he wouldnt have even mentioned us missing Perk.

Nah...  I think Hibbert could have outperformed Shaq and his cortisone-injected, currently-in-a-boot self.

I hope Shaq is back, but I'm surprised that folks have so much confidence in him being a key contributor.  I see that as a 50/50 proposition, at best.

[barefacedmonk]

What have Krstic and Green done for us thus far that Perk and Battier wouldn't have been able to do?

[GrandTheftRondo]

in the end, Danny Ainge is the one we should be really blaming for all of this.

Amen.  I love Danny and want to see his number retired, but he went for a home run when a single would have sufficed.

Couldn't have said it better.

[PosImpos]

I'm new here so I probably should shut up... but this forum has an attitude problem.

Rondo sucks, Davis sucks, Kristic sucks... Bla bla bla
And guys really sucking like Allen and Green are hardly mentioned.
I don't get it

Here's the thing, Juneauz.  A lot of people on this forum have been following this incarnation of the Celtics (and many other incarnations) for the last few years, especially closely the last 4-6 months.  They have done so with the deep seated belief that this team can win a championship.  Anything less than that will be a disappointment.  This is, for all intents and purposes, our last real shot at a title with this group.  After this year, it's lockout and then rebuilding time. 

So many people are getting really worked up and riled up and disgusted and embarrassed and ashamed because what they're seeing before their eyes is this team breaking down and falling short before they even get to the playoffs.  They're seeing happen again what they saw happen in the last half of last season leading up to the playoffs, which resulted in a loss in the Finals.  The team just ran out of gas last year.  Didn't have the legs, or the depth, or home court.  The window is closing, and #18 is slipping away.

In other words, this all may seem like a gross overreaction to one game, but the last month has been pretty brutal.  And it all appears to be a very ominous, disturbing sign of things to come.

I see what you're saying, PosImpos.
but I've been laughing and crying with the celtics just like you guys, in the last ten years. I don't miss a game, and I didn't miss one even when we were losing 20 in a row back in the days.
I'm frustrated just like you are, and I totally HATED the trade.
But what I don't get, is blaming always the same guys even when they play great, or never mention the "untachables" even when they play badly.

in the end, Danny Ainge is the one we should be really blaming for all of this.

But some guys here watch celtics games just to diss Rondo and BBD and will always do even if it makes no sense, just like today.

I think everybody just disagrees on who is to blame.  Personally, I don't believe that Danny is at fault.  I think he saw many of these issues coming ahead of time.  I think he wanted to try to address them to some degree and also attempt to put some youth in place to start creating a bridge between this group and the next.  I can't fault him for doing that. 

Just as Roy believes with much faith that the loss of Perkins is what has thrown this team into discord, I have faith in Danny.  I believe that the issues we're seeing crop up now are things that he expected to happen, and attempted to address beforehand.  I just don't think he was successful - but I don't think it was for lack of trying, or poor decision making.  I just have a feeling that this group is getting close to cooked.  Not cooked yet, but close.

[PosImpos]

What have Krstic and Green done for us thus far that Perk and Battier wouldn't have been able to do?

There's no way we would have been able to get Battier.  Houston got a better deal for him than we could have offered.


The proper comparison is Krstic and Green vs. Perk and Pavlovic.  I disagree that this team would be that much better with the latter.  Better defensively?  Perhaps.  But considerably worse offensively, and we're already putrid on offense.

[Onslaught]

Well, Danny Granger just came out and said that we missed Perk, so at least somebody sees it.

well then, that settles it. always good to have the opinion of basketball analyst extraordinaire danny granger.

Yeah, there's definitely no need to trust the guys actually playing against us.

He went on to say they wanted to take advantage of Hibberts size over Baby. If Shaq or Jermaine played tonight he wouldnt have even mentioned us missing Perk.

That's a very large IF. ANd it's still a large IF that they'll ever play. Or play well.


Dumb trade.

[GrandTheftRondo]

What have Krstic and Green done for us thus far that Perk and Battier wouldn't have been able to do?

The thought of Perk and Battier instead of Krstic and Green...sigh. Too late to dream now.

[jdpapa3]

KG getting into foul trouble killed him and the team. It reminded me of the story Doc told once upon a time. He told KG to take it easy a bit in one game and the end result was a horrible KG. He can't just turn it off and on again. And that was what he was forced into tonight with an array of terrible calls. I mean, missing 2 of 2 ft's? Missing a chippy over Collison? It was like KG getting neutered.

Playing a b2b on the road against a rested team that was playing for a playoff spot and the refs are getting your best player into foul trouble? Uphill battle.

Was nice to see Rondo get it going, but potentially at the expense of Ray Allen's rhythm.  

[Cman]

in the end, Danny Ainge is the one we should be really blaming for all of this.

Amen.  I love Danny and want to see his number retired, but he went for a home run when a single would have sufficed.

Baseball metaphors are always good when talking about DA!

I agree the safer route would have been to take the single (which was some combination of players for Anthony Parker, IIRC).  Whether it would have been a better outcome or not is impossible to say.

[Errn]

Defense and possession are our problems. We forgot how to pass. We forgot how to create offense.

Marquis Daniels really contributed to our offensive pass-making (beginning with good passing and finding good shot selection).

Glen Davis has become a cancer on our team, making a face at Ray Allen like that at the end of the game. Glen doesn't care about winning. He's happy with "getting his own."

Ray Allen could have been tired on that play? Why would he be tired? Because he's the only other guard we have who 1) doesn't get burned on defense and 2) can dribble the ball well (West seems like he is still injured). Also, there's the matter of Von Wafer's injury (our training and rehab staff sucks balls ((we let Glen Davis eat pasta in his hotel room before games, for ****))).

Krstic really is a joke on defense. Green looks effortless on both ends of the court (and I mean effort-less).

Who brought this onto Boston? Well, can we really NOT blame it on Ainge and Doc? Why on Earth could they not see that Arroyo was a defensive liability? Why did they not see weaknesses in Avery Bradley's court vision? Why were the training staff not aware that Daniels' condition was something that could have happened when there were signs (from previous injury)? Why did Tony Allen feel underappreciated here? Why couldn't we keep any of our other (obviously essential) role players? Let's ask the same questions of Jermaine's injury. Why was Jermaine not properly evaluated? Why did he not keep himself in shape during recovery? Why did we not look after him to make sure he kept a proper diet, etc., during his recovery? Grown men will be grown men (boys will be boys), but there is a championship on the line.

Boston's problem seems to be about these things: quality role players (<-lack thereof) and poor management/coaching decisions that have gotten us to where we are.

[PosImpos]

The trade is just an excuse for a lot of people but certainly not a cause.

So the slump coinciding with the trade, and the players talking about the loss of physicality and chemistry, is all just a big coincidence?

I'll put it this way, Roy.  If this team could lose their physicality, chemistry, and swagger that easily - a bunch of veterans, guys who have been in the league for many years with many different teammates - then they are much weaker mentally than we ever expected. 

If they are really that fragile, they wouldn't have had what it takes to win a championship even if the trade had never occurred.