Brooklyn is going to be terrible- We really could get a top 5 pick this year...

[mgent]

Lopez
Bargs
Thad Young
Joe Johnson
Jarrett Jack

That's not a bottom 5 team.

[Eja117]

Lopez
Bargs
Thad Young
Joe Johnson
Jarrett Jack

That's not a bottom 5 team.

Not to go all nuts on ya, but would you please list the starting 5 of the bottom 5 teams? I got Philly. We're all in agreement there. After that it gets harder

[crimson_stallion]

Lopez
Bargs
Thad Young
Joe Johnson
Jarrett Jack

That's not a bottom 5 team.

2014/15 Stats for the above players:

Lopez: 17.2 pts, 7.4 reb, 0.7 ast, 0.6 stl, 1.8 blk
Bargnani: 14.8 pts, 4.4 reb, 1.6 ast, 0.1 stl, 0.9 blk
Thadeus Young: 14.1 pts, 5.4 reb, 2.3 ast, 1.6 stl, 0.3 blk, 46% FG, 33% 3PT, 66% FT
Joe Johnson: 14.4 pts, 4.8 reb, 3.7 ast, 0.7 stl, 0.2 blk, 43% FG, 36% 3PT, 80% FT
Jarrett Jack: 12.9 pts, 3.1 reb, 4.7 ast. 0.9 stl, 0.2 blk, 44% FG, 27% 3PT, 88% FT

Kinda reminds me of the starting lineup of our 2013.14 Celtics:

Jared Sullinger: 13.3 pts, 8.1 reb, 1.6 ast, 0.7 blk, 0.5 stl, 43% FG, 27% 3PT, 78% FT
Brandon Bass: 11.1 pts, 5.7 reb, 1.1 ast, 0.9 blk, 0.4 stl, 49% FG, 33% 3PT, 86% FT
Jeff Green: 16.9 pts, 4.6 reb, 1.7 ast, 0.7 stl, 0.6 blk, 41% FG, 34% 3PT, 79% FT
Avery Bradley: 14.9 pts, 3.8 reb, 1.4 ast, 1.1 stl, 0.2 blk, 44% FG, 39% 3PT, 80% FT
Jordan Crawford: 11 pts, 2.3 reb, 3.5 ast, 0.6 stl, 0.1 blk, 42% FG, 32% 3PT, 86% FT

I won't get started on the bench, because our 2013/14 bench (Kelly Olynyk, Jerryd Bayless, Phil Pressey, Kris Humphreys, Courtney Lee) was far, far better than Brooklyn's current bench.

Overall, I'd say you would be pretty hard-pressed to argue that the current nets team is really any better than our 13/14 Celtics team overall (arguably a slightly better starting lineup, offset by our far superior bench) and that team finished tied with Utah for the 5th worst record in the entire league - which got us Marcus Smart at pick #6!



I mean, lets be real here:

* Their best player is Lopez, who avearaged 17/6 and has missed 50% of his career games
* Their second best player is Young, who has been a borderline starter his whole career
* Their third best player is Johnson. who is 34 and has declined every year for the last 4 seasons
* Their fourth best player is Jack, who has been a good bench guy most of his career
* Their fifth best player is Bargnani, who the wooden-spoon Knicks couldn't wait to get rid of
* Their best prospect right now is probably Kevin Seraphin (unless RHJ proves otherwise)
* They have no bench
* They have no cap space
* They have no draft picks

How good can they possibly be?!?

[anewframe]

Lopez
Bargs
Thad Young
Joe Johnson
Jarrett Jack

That's not a bottom 5 team.

2014/15 Stats for the above players:

Lopez: 17.2 pts, 7.4 reb, 0.7 ast, 0.6 stl, 1.8 blk
Bargnani: 14.8 pts, 4.4 reb, 1.6 ast, 0.1 stl, 0.9 blk
Thadeus Young: 14.1 pts, 5.4 reb, 2.3 ast, 1.6 stl, 0.3 blk, 46% FG, 33% 3PT, 66% FT
Joe Johnson: 14.4 pts, 4.8 reb, 3.7 ast, 0.7 stl, 0.2 blk, 43% FG, 36% 3PT, 80% FT
Jarrett Jack: 12.9 pts, 3.1 reb, 4.7 ast. 0.9 stl, 0.2 blk, 44% FG, 27% 3PT, 88% FT

Kinda reminds me of the starting lineup of our 2013.14 Celtics:

Jared Sullinger: 13.3 pts, 8.1 reb, 1.6 ast, 0.7 blk, 0.5 stl, 43% FG, 27% 3PT, 78% FT
Brandon Bass: 11.1 pts, 5.7 reb, 1.1 ast, 0.9 blk, 0.4 stl, 49% FG, 33% 3PT, 86% FT
Jeff Green: 16.9 pts, 4.6 reb, 1.7 ast, 0.7 stl, 0.6 blk, 41% FG, 34% 3PT, 79% FT
Avery Bradley: 14.9 pts, 3.8 reb, 1.4 ast, 1.1 stl, 0.2 blk, 44% FG, 39% 3PT, 80% FT
Jordan Crawford: 11 pts, 2.3 reb, 3.5 ast, 0.6 stl, 0.1 blk, 42% FG, 32% 3PT, 86% FT

I won't get started on the bench, because our 2013/14 bench (Kelly Olynyk, Jerryd Bayless, Phil Pressey, Kris Humphreys, Courtney Lee) was far, far better than Brooklyn's current bench.

Overall, I'd say you would be pretty hard-pressed to argue that the current nets team is really any better than our 13/14 Celtics team overall (arguably a slightly better starting lineup, offset by our far superior bench) and that team finished tied with Utah for the 5th worst record in the entire league - which got us Marcus Smart at pick #6!



I mean, lets be real here:

* Their best player is Lopez, who avearaged 17/6 and has missed 50% of his career games
* Their second best player is Young, who has been a borderline starter his whole career
* Their third best player is Johnson. who is 34 and has declined every year for the last 4 seasons
* Their fourth best player is Jack, who has been a good bench guy most of his career
* Their fifth best player is Bargnani, who the wooden-spoon Knicks couldn't wait to get rid of
* Their best prospect right now is probably Kevin Seraphin (unless RHJ proves otherwise)
* They have no bench
* They have no cap space
* They have no draft picks

How good can they possibly be?!?

They don't have Kevin Seraphin, he's on the Knicks. They also have Chris McCoullough as a highly touted prospect.

But I agree that we will get a great pick from them

[Celtics18]

Most of the rest of the world seems to have the Brooklyn Nets out of the Eastern Conference playoffs (in an admittedly brief internet search, I couldn't find one prediction that had them in the playoffs).

The consensus among observers seems to be that the Celtics are going to be in the hunt for one of the final playoff spots in the conference.

Of course the "experts" could be wrong on both counts.  It's certainly happened before. 

However, on the prospects of getting a nice pick from this year's Nets team, we as Celtics fans certainly have legitimately good reason to be optimistic. 

Same, with the prospect of returning to the playoffs.

There are a few CB posters for whom it's almost a given that they'll try to make us see the possibility of clouds through the silver linings.  That is what it is.

I am looking forward to rooting for the Celtics to win, though, and for the "tankers" to be relegated to "fringe" status this season. 

[LarBrd33]

I wouldn't count on Brooklyn sucking.  They finished the season strong.  Brook Lopez and Thad Young made a difference.  I think our pick from them will end up in the 12-17 range.

So...

Boston made a ton of trades around the All-Star break, and then went on to finish the season as the second hottest team in the Eastern conference.  That was a total fluke, so that success will not carry over to next season. 

Brooklyn made a trade around the All-Star break, and then went on to finish the season strong.  That was because the trade made the team better, and so as a result that success full carry over to next season. 

Got it, sound logic.

From a talent standpoint, Brooklyn's late season success made a lot more sense than Boston's.  Brooklyn played well down the stretch because of allstar talent.  Boston played well down the stretch because of effort and execution driven by a wonder-coach.  Which is more sustainable?   I don't think either will be bottom 5 next year.  But if forced to guess which of the two is most likely to bottom out, it has to be the shakey Boston lineup.  Both picks probably end up 12-17.  Injuries can derail Brooklyn, but if they are healthy they should be a playoff team.  A lot has to go right for Boston to sneak into the playoffs again in spite of their blatant lack of talent, imo. 

On paper, Brooklyn looks solidly mediocre. Lopez is 20/10 impact player. Johnson is a borderline all star. There's talent there.  On paper, Boston sucks. Stevens proved last year he could MacGyver a .500 team out of paperclips and superglue, but it's hard to sustain quirk success.  I'll admit I'm a bit enthusiastic about the David Lee addition (though we already had a handful of borderline starter power forwards) , but how excited can you really get about a team when the best player is coming off a playoffs appearance where he averaged 8 minutes off the bench and had 8 coach decision DNP's?  Stevens has his work cut out for him and he struggled early last season finding success while balancing an overloaded roster filled with redundancies. 

[Celtics18]

I wouldn't count on Brooklyn sucking.  They finished the season strong.  Brook Lopez and Thad Young made a difference.  I think our pick from them will end up in the 12-17 range.

So...

Boston made a ton of trades around the All-Star break, and then went on to finish the season as the second hottest team in the Eastern conference.  That was a total fluke, so that success will not carry over to next season. 

Brooklyn made a trade around the All-Star break, and then went on to finish the season strong.  That was because the trade made the team better, and so as a result that success full carry over to next season. 

Got it, sound logic.

From a talent standpoint, Brooklyn's late season success made a lot more sense than Boston's.  Brooklyn played well down the stretch because of allstar talent.  Boston played well down the stretch because of effort and execution driven by a wonder-coach.  Which is more sustainable?   I don't think either will be bottom 5 next year.  But if forced to guess which of the two is most likely to bottom out, it has to be the shakey Boston lineup.  Both picks probably end up 12-17.  Injuries can derail Brooklyn, but if they are healthy they should be a playoff team.  A lot has to go right for Boston to sneak into the playoffs again in spite of their blatant lack of talent, imo. 

On paper, Brooklyn looks solidly mediocre. Lopez is 20/10 impact player. Johnson is a borderline all star. There's talent there.  On paper, Boston sucks. Stevens proved last year he could MacGyver a .500 team out of paperclips and superglue, but it's hard to sustain quirk success.  I'll admit I'm a bit enthusiastic about the David Lee addition (though we already had a handful of borderline starter power forwards) , but how excited can you really get about a team when the best player is coming off a playoffs appearance where he averaged 8 minutes off the bench and had 8 coach decision DNP's?

Brook Lopez has never been a 20/10 player.  I don't expect him to become one this season.

[LarBrd33]

I wouldn't count on Brooklyn sucking.  They finished the season strong.  Brook Lopez and Thad Young made a difference.  I think our pick from them will end up in the 12-17 range.

So...

Boston made a ton of trades around the All-Star break, and then went on to finish the season as the second hottest team in the Eastern conference.  That was a total fluke, so that success will not carry over to next season. 

Brooklyn made a trade around the All-Star break, and then went on to finish the season strong.  That was because the trade made the team better, and so as a result that success full carry over to next season. 

Got it, sound logic.

From a talent standpoint, Brooklyn's late season success made a lot more sense than Boston's.  Brooklyn played well down the stretch because of allstar talent.  Boston played well down the stretch because of effort and execution driven by a wonder-coach.  Which is more sustainable?   I don't think either will be bottom 5 next year.  But if forced to guess which of the two is most likely to bottom out, it has to be the shakey Boston lineup.  Both picks probably end up 12-17.  Injuries can derail Brooklyn, but if they are healthy they should be a playoff team.  A lot has to go right for Boston to sneak into the playoffs again in spite of their blatant lack of talent, imo. 

On paper, Brooklyn looks solidly mediocre. Lopez is 20/10 impact player. Johnson is a borderline all star. There's talent there.  On paper, Boston sucks. Stevens proved last year he could MacGyver a .500 team out of paperclips and superglue, but it's hard to sustain quirk success.  I'll admit I'm a bit enthusiastic about the David Lee addition (though we already had a handful of borderline starter power forwards) , but how excited can you really get about a team when the best player is coming off a playoffs appearance where he averaged 8 minutes off the bench and had 8 coach decision DNP's?

Brook Lopez has never been a 20/10 player.  I don't expect him to become one this season.

Whatever.  The underrating of Brook Lopez is a key reason why people are incorrectly assuming Brooklyn is terrible.  He spent the last couple months of the season averaging 21, 9 and 2 on 54% shooting... the team played well.   They made the playoffs for the third year in a row. 

I get why people think they'll be terrible.  I get why people want them to be terrible.  I want them to be terrible too.  I'm not counting on it.  They should be in the playoff hunt.   Boston proved last year you can make the playoffs in the Eastern conference while arguably not having a single starter-caliber player.  This "Brooklyn = Top 5 pick" thing is just wishful thinking.

[Ilikesports17]

I wouldn't count on Brooklyn sucking.  They finished the season strong.  Brook Lopez and Thad Young made a difference.  I think our pick from them will end up in the 12-17 range.

So...

Boston made a ton of trades around the All-Star break, and then went on to finish the season as the second hottest team in the Eastern conference.  That was a total fluke, so that success will not carry over to next season. 

Brooklyn made a trade around the All-Star break, and then went on to finish the season strong.  That was because the trade made the team better, and so as a result that success full carry over to next season. 

Got it, sound logic.

From a talent standpoint, Brooklyn's late season success made a lot more sense than Boston's.  Brooklyn played well down the stretch because of allstar talent.  Boston played well down the stretch because of effort and execution driven by a wonder-coach.  Which is more sustainable?   I don't think either will be bottom 5 next year.  But if forced to guess which of the two is most likely to bottom out, it has to be the shakey Boston lineup.  Both picks probably end up 12-17.  Injuries can derail Brooklyn, but if they are healthy they should be a playoff team.  A lot has to go right for Boston to sneak into the playoffs again in spite of their blatant lack of talent, imo. 

On paper, Brooklyn looks solidly mediocre. Lopez is 20/10 impact player. Johnson is a borderline all star. There's talent there.  On paper, Boston sucks. Stevens proved last year he could MacGyver a .500 team out of paperclips and superglue, but it's hard to sustain quirk success.  I'll admit I'm a bit enthusiastic about the David Lee addition (though we already had a handful of borderline starter power forwards) , but how excited can you really get about a team when the best player is coming off a playoffs appearance where he averaged 8 minutes off the bench and had 8 coach decision DNP's?  Stevens has his work cut out for him and he struggled early last season finding success while balancing an overloaded roster filled with redundancies.

A lot has to go right for Brooklyn too.

They have 0 depth and a very injury prone big man who is everything right now to them. On top of that they are coming off a season where the squeezed into the playoffs in what was actually a very healthy year for them.

I think Brooklyn pick will be 7-12. As was pointed out above no one is picking Brooklyn to make the playoffs. No one.

One injury and this could be a top 5 pick. Everything goes right and they still just arent that good.

[MBunge]

Lopez is 20/10 impact player. Johnson is a borderline all star.

Lopez has NEVER averaged 10 boards a game and in four of the last five seasons, he's pulled down fewer than 7 boards a game.

Last season, Johnson averaged 14.4 pts, 4.8 boards and 3.7 assists.
Jimmy Butler, who did make the all-star team as the third forward after Melo and Bron, averaged 20 pts, 5.8 boards and 3.3 assists.
Johnson isn't a bordeline all-star and hasn't been one for years.  The only thing Johnson was ever exceptional at was scoring and that has been on a serious decline over the past three seasons.

Mike

[Celtics18]

I wouldn't count on Brooklyn sucking.  They finished the season strong.  Brook Lopez and Thad Young made a difference.  I think our pick from them will end up in the 12-17 range.

So...

Boston made a ton of trades around the All-Star break, and then went on to finish the season as the second hottest team in the Eastern conference.  That was a total fluke, so that success will not carry over to next season. 

Brooklyn made a trade around the All-Star break, and then went on to finish the season strong.  That was because the trade made the team better, and so as a result that success full carry over to next season. 

Got it, sound logic.

From a talent standpoint, Brooklyn's late season success made a lot more sense than Boston's.  Brooklyn played well down the stretch because of allstar talent.  Boston played well down the stretch because of effort and execution driven by a wonder-coach.  Which is more sustainable?   I don't think either will be bottom 5 next year.  But if forced to guess which of the two is most likely to bottom out, it has to be the shakey Boston lineup.  Both picks probably end up 12-17.  Injuries can derail Brooklyn, but if they are healthy they should be a playoff team.  A lot has to go right for Boston to sneak into the playoffs again in spite of their blatant lack of talent, imo. 

On paper, Brooklyn looks solidly mediocre. Lopez is 20/10 impact player. Johnson is a borderline all star. There's talent there.  On paper, Boston sucks. Stevens proved last year he could MacGyver a .500 team out of paperclips and superglue, but it's hard to sustain quirk success.  I'll admit I'm a bit enthusiastic about the David Lee addition (though we already had a handful of borderline starter power forwards) , but how excited can you really get about a team when the best player is coming off a playoffs appearance where he averaged 8 minutes off the bench and had 8 coach decision DNP's?

Brook Lopez has never been a 20/10 player.  I don't expect him to become one this season.

Whatever.  The underrating of Brook Lopez is a key reason why people are incorrectly assuming Brooklyn is terrible.  He spent the last couple months of the season averaging 21, 9 and 2 on 54% shooting... the team played well.   They made the playoffs for the third year in a row. 

I get why people think they'll be terrible.  I get why people want them to be terrible.  I want them to be terrible too.  I'm not counting on it.  They should be in the playoff hunt.   Boston proved last year you can make the playoffs in the Eastern conference while arguably not having a single starter-caliber player.  This "Brooklyn = Top 5 pick" thing is just wishful thinking.

It is "wishful thinking," but it's very realistic wishful thinking.  Sure, Brook Lopez is a good player, but he has had significant trouble staying healthy, and he doesn't rebound or defend very well for his position.  Joe Johnson has been getting worse by the year over the course of the last few seasons. 
Those who are trying their hardest to look for negativity for the Celtics are reduced to making the claim that Thad Young is a high impact player.  Please, he's a nice, solid pro, but we've got about 8 or 9 players on our roster as good or better than Thad Young.

Beyond those three, the Nets are a complete mess.  Don't trust me or the rest of the "homers" on Celtics blog.  Look at the season predictions and betting odds that are out there on the internet. 

The idea that the Nets are going to stink this year is not one invented by Celtics fans to feel good about our upcoming draft pick.  Most observers, even those who aren't Celtics fans, seem to agree. 

[LarBrd33]

Lopez is 20/10 impact player. Johnson is a borderline all star.

Lopez has NEVER averaged 10 boards a game and in four of the last five seasons, he's pulled down fewer than 7 boards a game.

Last season, Johnson averaged 14.4 pts, 4.8 boards and 3.7 assists.
Jimmy Butler, who did make the all-star team as the third forward after Melo and Bron, averaged 20 pts, 5.8 boards and 3.3 assists.
Johnson isn't a bordeline all-star and hasn't been one for years.  The only thing Johnson was ever exceptional at was scoring and that has been on a serious decline over the past three seasons.

Mike

Whatever fellas.  This is a tired debate.   The "Brooklyn will be a bottom 5 team" thing seems contingent on the idea that Brook lopez will get injured again.  Otherwise, it's not happening.   I'll tell you one well-known NBA executive who apparently agrees with me on this debate... Danny Ainge.   If Ainge believed Brooklyn was a bottom 5 team next year, there's no way he'd be willing to give up that pick (along with a multiple other 1st rounders) to move up a few spots in the 2015 NBA draft... but reportedly, at least one Brooklyn pick was on the table and reportedly Charlotte still didn't think it was enough to move from #9 to #16.   I tell you what, if either Boston or Charlotte believed that Brooklyn was likely to finish bottom 5 this year... Boston was insane to offer that package and Charlotte was even more insane for turning it down. 

This "Brooklyn is terrible" thing is overblown.   THere's a chance it happens, but it's no more likely than Boston itself bottoming out.  I'd guesstimate based on rosters alone, the unprotected Boston pick is more valuable than the unprotected Brooklyn pick.   

[Celtics18]

Lopez is 20/10 impact player. Johnson is a borderline all star.

Lopez has NEVER averaged 10 boards a game and in four of the last five seasons, he's pulled down fewer than 7 boards a game.

Last season, Johnson averaged 14.4 pts, 4.8 boards and 3.7 assists.
Jimmy Butler, who did make the all-star team as the third forward after Melo and Bron, averaged 20 pts, 5.8 boards and 3.3 assists.
Johnson isn't a bordeline all-star and hasn't been one for years.  The only thing Johnson was ever exceptional at was scoring and that has been on a serious decline over the past three seasons.

Mike

Whatever fellas.  This is a tired debate.   The "Brooklyn will be a bottom 5 team" thing seems contingent on the idea that Brook lopez will get injured again.  Otherwise, it's not happening.   I'll tell you one well-known NBA executive who apparently agrees with me on this debate... Danny Ainge.   If Ainge believed Brooklyn was a bottom 5 team next year, there's no way he'd be willing to give up that pick (along with a multiple other 1st rounders) to move up a few spots in the 2015 NBA draft... but reportedly, at least one Brooklyn pick was on the table and reportedly Charlotte still didn't think it was enough to move from #9 to #16.   This "Brooklyn is terrible" thing is overblown.   THere's a chance it happens, but it's no more likely than Boston itself bottoming out.  I'd guesstimate based on rosters alone, the unprotected Boston pick is more valuable than the unprotected Brooklyn pick.

You'd probably be alone on that guesstimation. 

[LarBrd33]

Lopez is 20/10 impact player. Johnson is a borderline all star.

Lopez has NEVER averaged 10 boards a game and in four of the last five seasons, he's pulled down fewer than 7 boards a game.

Last season, Johnson averaged 14.4 pts, 4.8 boards and 3.7 assists.
Jimmy Butler, who did make the all-star team as the third forward after Melo and Bron, averaged 20 pts, 5.8 boards and 3.3 assists.
Johnson isn't a bordeline all-star and hasn't been one for years.  The only thing Johnson was ever exceptional at was scoring and that has been on a serious decline over the past three seasons.

Mike

Whatever fellas.  This is a tired debate.   The "Brooklyn will be a bottom 5 team" thing seems contingent on the idea that Brook lopez will get injured again.  Otherwise, it's not happening.   I'll tell you one well-known NBA executive who apparently agrees with me on this debate... Danny Ainge.   If Ainge believed Brooklyn was a bottom 5 team next year, there's no way he'd be willing to give up that pick (along with a multiple other 1st rounders) to move up a few spots in the 2015 NBA draft... but reportedly, at least one Brooklyn pick was on the table and reportedly Charlotte still didn't think it was enough to move from #9 to #16.   This "Brooklyn is terrible" thing is overblown.   THere's a chance it happens, but it's no more likely than Boston itself bottoming out.  I'd guesstimate based on rosters alone, the unprotected Boston pick is more valuable than the unprotected Brooklyn pick.

You'd probably be alone on that guesstimation.

It's a moot point since I expect both picks to end up in the 12-17 range.  But if you're going to gamble on one team bottoming out, bet on the team lacking in top talent (Boston). 

[inverselock]

Thumped Brooklyn during their big late season run.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201503230BRK.html