Hollinger on the C's Trade

[colincb]

Robinson's also a shooter, so what prevents him from playing side-by-side with Rondo, over stretches, as SG? Is it basically a height problem, where the SG needs to be at least 6'4", to be able to take a viable open shot, w/o being automatically covered? I figured he's got enough vertical leap to make it possible.

The problem is on defense with Nate at the 2. Certainly a mismatch on any post-up down low and won't be able to defend guys who are strong jump shooters. OTOH, Nate's quick enough to harass SGs who aren't and to chase guys like Ray and Rip who use picks to get open so I can see him on the floor at SG for brief stretches against 2nd stringers.

[Fafnir]

Robinson's also a shooter, so what prevents him from playing side-by-side with Rondo, over stretches, as SG? Is it basically a height problem, where the SG needs to be at least 6'4", to be able to take a viable open shot, w/o being automatically covered? I figured he's got enough vertical leap to make it possible.

The problem is on defense with Nate at the 2. Certainly a mismatch on any post-up down low and won't be able to defend guys who are strong jump shooters. OTOH, Nate's quick enough to harass SGs who aren't and to chase guys like Ray and Rip who use picks to get open so I can see him on the floor at SG for brief stretches against 2nd stringers.

Rondo would guard the 2s.

[TitleMaster]

Nate's quick enough to harass SGs who aren't and to chase guys like Ray and Rip who use picks to get open so I can see him on the floor at SG for brief stretches against 2nd stringers

And that's just it, Ray Ray simply can't play the added minutes with his limited intensity. Since Rondo will only be *out* for 12 mins per game, that's a full 12 mins of Nate which will be missed, since he's a 20-24 MPG athletic player. I think Nate should pretty much be the backcourt 6th man for this squad and let the others, queue up around the 3 or 4 spots.

[td450]

I agree that Rondo would guard 2's if both were on the floor. We are fortunate in that 2 of our 3 biggest eastern rivals play significant minutes with modest sized 2-guards. When Cleveland plays Mo Williams and Delonte, or when Orlando plays Nelson and Redick, I think we can get away with it.

Rondo and Robinson might be the fastest, most explosive pair of guards ever to play together. It would be fun to see.

[vjcsmoke]

I really like this trade.  Robinson is more talented than House.  Yes he can fill it from the outside at 38% from threes, but he can also drive, dribble, and pass the ball.  He is extremely athletic and I see him as a sparkplug on offense for this team.  Also, Rondo can finally get relief minutes without us worrying about the offense tanking with Nate in charge!

We gave up House, Giddens, and Walker for Robinson.  So basically an outside shooter, and 2 lottery tickets that really didn't have a high chance of panning out.  What's not to like, outside of House, those other guys weren't even seeing the floor anyways!  This makes up somewhat for losing out on Mario Chalmers in 2008.  We took the aforementioned Giddens *cough*benchwarmer*cough* instead.  And now the Celtics have 2 scorers off the bench - Sheed and Robinson.  Let the good times roll.  Can't wait to see how Nate looks in Celtics uniform!

[colincb]

Robinson's also a shooter, so what prevents him from playing side-by-side with Rondo, over stretches, as SG? Is it basically a height problem, where the SG needs to be at least 6'4", to be able to take a viable open shot, w/o being automatically covered? I figured he's got enough vertical leap to make it possible.

The problem is on defense with Nate at the 2. Certainly a mismatch on any post-up down low and won't be able to defend guys who are strong jump shooters. OTOH, Nate's quick enough to harass SGs who aren't and to chase guys like Ray and Rip who use picks to get open so I can see him on the floor at SG for brief stretches against 2nd stringers.

Rondo would guard the 2s.

My bad, but same issue.

[Brendan]

Doc is pretty much a coach by the numbers guy - I'd be surprised to see something unconventional - which Rondo and Robinson at the guard spots for extended periods would be. I could see a little overlap when Rondo comes back in the game for a minute or two depending on who is in.

I expect we'll see a somewhat straight forward, gulp, ten man rotation:

Perk / Sheed
KG / BBD
Pierce / Daniels
Allen / Allen
Rondo / Robinson

With Tony Allen's minutes limited as much as possible by staggering Pierce and Ray, and leveraging Daniels.

[vjcsmoke]

I think the Celtics main mismatch that they haven't addressed yet is RASHARD LEWIS.  We've got nobody to match up to him defensively.  He's a tall small forward with a 3 point shot who can also drive to the basket.  I don't think that BBD is quick enough to guard him out to 3 AND stop him from driving at will.  I guess we address this with help defense?  But 1 on 1, he poses a bad matchup for the Celts.  Backup PG is solved in my mind.  But we need a 4 with some quickness and defense to stop freakish SFs like Lewis and Odom.

[Fafnir]

I think the Celtics main mismatch that they haven't addressed yet is RASHARD LEWIS.  We've got nobody to match up to him defensively.  He's a tall small forward with a 3 point shot who can also drive to the basket.  I don't think that BBD is quick enough to guard him out to 3 AND stop him from driving at will.  I guess we address this with help defense?  But 1 on 1, he poses a bad matchup for the Celts.  Backup PG is solved in my mind.  But we need a 4 with some quickness and defense to stop freakish SFs like Lewis and Odom.

Uh Kevin Garnett?

[coco]

This was a great trade in my a opinion.  One of those trades that kind-a goes under the radar but could bring high rewards.

The problem with the Cs - or at least on of them - is our inability to close games.  KG was never a closer, RAllen can't create his shot as he used to, and PP can't close them at the rate he used to.  This leaves Rondo/Perk/Sheed and non is a closer.  Nate could help....not by closing but by scoring enough so that games don't need closing.

Next issue at hand; how to get SWilliams back on the floor and tell Sheed to take a hike.

[kw10]

Havn't posted on here for a while ...been reading the site though, but not every post on this thread so sorry if I re-post or miss what someone has already said.

I was never really looking forward to this trade, but since it's happened. One can only try be optimistic about it, I mean House hasn't been in his best form. Nate can shoot and does certainly has energy, so let's hope he can provide what House did, and more. Let's hope that thick head of his won't get in the way with a ring in sight.

[jr_3421]

I don't think Nate's attitude is going to be a problem. I give any youngster that is drafted by the Knicks a free pass. I mean having Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph (when he still was a knucklehead) and Quentin Richardson as players to look up to. It's no wonder he picked up some bad habits. They might have been the laziest team I've ever seen.

[vjcsmoke]

I think the Celtics main mismatch that they haven't addressed yet is RASHARD LEWIS.  We've got nobody to match up to him defensively.  He's a tall small forward with a 3 point shot who can also drive to the basket.  I don't think that BBD is quick enough to guard him out to 3 AND stop him from driving at will.  I guess we address this with help defense?  But 1 on 1, he poses a bad matchup for the Celts.  Backup PG is solved in my mind.  But we need a 4 with some quickness and defense to stop freakish SFs like Lewis and Odom.

Uh Kevin Garnett?

And then who's guarding the other team's power forward?  Like I said, it's a mismatch.  PP is a great SF but he doesn't have the length of guys like Odom and Lewis.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

I think the Celtics main mismatch that they haven't addressed yet is RASHARD LEWIS.  We've got nobody to match up to him defensively.  He's a tall small forward with a 3 point shot who can also drive to the basket.  I don't think that BBD is quick enough to guard him out to 3 AND stop him from driving at will.  I guess we address this with help defense?  But 1 on 1, he poses a bad matchup for the Celts.  Backup PG is solved in my mind.  But we need a 4 with some quickness and defense to stop freakish SFs like Lewis and Odom.

This was a great trade in my a opinion.  One of those trades that kind-a goes under the radar but could bring high rewards.

The problem with the Cs - or at least on of them - is our inability to close games.  KG was never a closer, RAllen can't create his shot as he used to, and PP can't close them at the rate he used to.  This leaves Rondo/Perk/Sheed and non is a closer.  Nate could help....not by closing but by scoring enough so that games don't need closing.

Next issue at hand; how to get SWilliams back on the floor and tell Sheed to take a hike.

Both right on, add Atlanta to that. It would be nice if KG was himself, healthy & fast, but he isn't. Yes to Sheldon. Sheed looks lazy, likie he could run, if he wanted to, but he don't want to. The only time he looks alive is in his dumb dance. Gasol beats him bad, if i was him, i would never let that happen. That has to be the worse guy to beat you. Don't push him fool, block his shot...!

[Jon]

If Nate was 8 inches taller, he'd be a perennial All Star.  He's not of course, but the guy is very talented and very athletic.  I would hate him at 30 mpg, but he'll add a dynamic to our second unit that wasn't there before.  Too often when Rondo and/or PP went to the bench, there were too many guys on the court who relied on set plays and open jumper to create offense.  Now we have a guy who can create his own offense when the play breaks down with 10 seconds left on the shot clock. 

It won't mean that the 10 point leads won't evaporate.  But it might mean that they'll stop at a 5 point lead rather than going completely away, which may lead to many more wins.