CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: rondofan1255 on July 18, 2018, 03:08:32 PM
-
:D
San Antonio has agreed to trade Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green to Toronto for DeMar DeRozan, Jakob Poeltl and a protected 2019 first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN. Trade call with league office is beginning momentarily.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019567705521655809
Source: Toronto's first-round pick to San Antonio is protected 1-20. After one year, it becomes two second-round picks.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019569230855860225
League's trade memo on Kawhi has been sent to teams. Includes one final tidbit: the Spurs are sending Toronto $5M in cash (almost the maximum they can send for the year) as part of the deal. Meant to cover tax hit linked to Kawhi's trade kicker, but still...
https://twitter.com/zachlowe_nba/status/1019762309097549831?s=21
-
Toronto - A
They upgrade Derozan to Kawhi for one year as there is a path to make their first NBA Finals in franchise history. If he stays next offseason, absolutely fantastic. If he leaves, then they have a clear direction to reboot after sucking up one final year of Lowry and Ibaka contracts on their books. They also have a roster right now that is deep and can play more small ball than before. Had they not made this trade, they would have been forced to overpay to re-up on old guys like Lowry and Ibaka to keep Derozan and fans happy for the next 5 years of mediocrity.
San Antonio - B+
When you look at other stars who forced a trade out of their current city, those teams typically did not get as good of a return that SA got here. They got a 28-year-old all-star under contract for 3 years plus a late first round pick is a good return. In that light, they did well. I'm just slightly confused as to what the direction of this franchise is.
-
A. It’s a really good haul for a disgruntled star who was planning to bolt. This is one of the few trades I actually think is a win win for both teams.
-
Toronto - A
They upgrade Derozan to Kawhi for one year as there is a path to make their first NBA Finals in franchise history. If he stays next offseason, absolutely fantastic. If he leaves, then they have a clear direction to reboot after sucking up one final year of Lowry and Ibaka contracts on their books. They also have a roster right now that is deep and can play more small ball than before. Had they not made this trade, they would have been forced to overpay to re-up on old guys like Lowry and Ibaka to keep Derozan and fans happy for the next 5 years of mediocrity.
San Antonio - B+
When you look at other stars who forced a trade out of their current city, those teams typically did not get as good of a return that SA got here. They got a 28-year-old all-star under contract for 3 years plus a late first round pick is a good return. In that light, they did well. I'm just slightly confused as to what the direction of this franchise is.
That's how I voted. Good deal for them, but I thought SAS might have also gotten other pieces too for a top-5 player...Valanciunas, young guys, more picks ...
-
They got a good player , screwed the Lakers in the short term at least , got Leonard out of the West for the time being .While still being good enough to make the playoffs themselfs .
Mission accomplished ..
B+
Raptors. A minus ..... i think they were truely done with the Demar experiment , time to move on , i think they just wanted out of the Deroz contract . Now they can flip Kawhi to the lustingl Lakers and do a rebuild themselves . ......they needed to breakup , ditch their coach , Deroz and put new blood into the franchise . I like it.
-
I don’t like the trade either way.
Toronto gets a one year guy who doesnt want to be there from day one. That team has no chance against the celticsand is in the pack with sixers and bucks. Best case scenario is losing to the C’s in east finals. Worst case, kawi does last year all over again, plays like 40-50 games
San Antonio gets a chocker, and a flawed all star woth no range and D. No real other assets. Best case scenario they make the 6-8 seed and out in the first round. Worst case, they miss the playoffs.
I just feal like SA should have taken the rebuild road and go for young guns and/or quality picks amd they got none. And Torontos best move was to make no moves, they have no chance of getting to the finals and just stick with the guy that wants to be there, win 50 games, sell tickets and that is it.
-
Depends on how you value DeRozen I guess, I chose a C.
They weren't offered premium picks or players other than DeRozen so maybe I should have given them something higher than a C.
Need to ponder it.
-
Both teams were stuck, makaveli. The outcomes you laid out for both teams would not have been much different without the trade, so why not go for it?
-
Toronto - A
They upgrade Derozan to Kawhi for one year as there is a path to make their first NBA Finals in franchise history. If he stays next offseason, absolutely fantastic. If he leaves, then they have a clear direction to reboot after sucking up one final year of Lowry and Ibaka contracts on their books. They also have a roster right now that is deep and can play more small ball than before. Had they not made this trade, they would have been forced to overpay to re-up on old guys like Lowry and Ibaka to keep Derozan and fans happy for the next 5 years of mediocrity.
San Antonio - B+
When you look at other stars who forced a trade out of their current city, those teams typically did not get as good of a return that SA got here. They got a 28-year-old all-star under contract for 3 years plus a late first round pick is a good return. In that light, they did well. I'm just slightly confused as to what the direction of this franchise is.
There is no way this is an A for Toronto if Kawhi leaves after the season, which seems VERY likely.
Anything short of winning the title this season (which seems VERY unlikely) will be a fail.
I’m not he biggest DD fan, but he’s a good player that they will have given up for nothing. Then they really go back to the drawing board. I agree they needed to make moves, but surely they could have went a safer route with unloading one of their two stars.
For the Spurs, that’s what I voted (B+). They probably could have done better but who knows what kind of offers were coming in. They get an all-star who should fit into that system well.
-
I went with a C-, I think he's gone after this year.
And it's not guaranteed they make ECF...he's a moody guy you never know what he's feeling or thinking, just ask Pop. Someone parks in his space and boom he wants to be traded.
-
B- with the thought that the Spurs should have negotiated for more conditional first rounders in the event Kawhi does resign with Toronto. not sure if that's possible but if so, SA should have grabbed a little something extra.
-
Like DeRozan and Poetll. And they moved Green with Leonard. A+ Spurs. F Raptors
-
I give it a C+.
In two years, ironically both Kawhi Leonard and DeMar DeRozan could go to LA lol.
Raptors win this trade, for the short-term. They'll be a pretty tough competition in the East now, and we talking about KL-squared. (KL^2 should be their new dynamic duo phrase or something, just like the Celtics with Double-Trouble 07 in Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown lol)
-
D. Not a fan of Derozan. If he could shoot the 3 or play D it would be a much better deal. He reminds me of Ricky Davis without being a headcase. Same type of mid range game, can score, not a great 3 pt shooter and zero defense. Not a great return for a team that just traded a former MVP. The should have gone for the rebuild and got young players. Sorry Pop but coach the young guys and do your job. Just because you don't want to rebuild doesn't mean you shouldn't.
-
I went with a C-, I think he's gone after this year.
And it's not guaranteed they make ECF...he's a moody guy you never know what he's feeling or thinking, just ask Pop. Someone parks in his space and boom he wants to be traded.
Your grade is for the Spurs, not the Raptors
-
They traded a disgruntled MVP caliber talent who hadn't played meaningful minutes for them in over a year for a guy who was selected to the All-NBA second team this year.
What's more, the guy they acquired in the trade can slot into almost the same role as guy they traded away. Granted, he's not nearly as good as the guy they traded, but if keeping Kawhi were an option they wouldn't have traded him.
If you have to trade your star you'd like to get a return that gives the trade a ceiling of what the Celts got out of the Brooklyn trade. In other words, multiple chances at getting a very high pick in the draft.
Failing that, if your goal is continue to be competitive in the short term, exchanging your disgruntled star for a lesser but still very productive and valuable star is pretty great.
The ceiling for this trade is that it allows the Spurs to continue to compete in the 45-55 win range and maybe try to win a playoff series. When you consider that they'd be in the same or worse position in the short term if they'd kept Kawhi, and worse position after next season when Kawhi inevitably left in free agency, that's pretty good.
Given all that, I'd give it an A-. Especially since they also added a solid, productive young big man and an okay-ish pick.
-
I gave Spurs an A. Not only they get DeRozan for 3 years but also a sleeper player in Jakob Poeltl..he will take Gasol place when he is gone..
-
They traded a disgruntled MVP caliber talent who hadn't played meaningful minutes for them in over a year for a guy who was selected to the All-NBA second team this year.
What's more, the guy they acquired in the trade can slot into almost the same role as guy they traded away. Granted, he's not nearly as good as the guy they traded, but if keeping Kawhi were an option they wouldn't have traded him.
If you have to trade your star you'd like to get a return that gives the trade a ceiling of what the Celts got out of the Brooklyn trade. In other words, multiple chances at getting a very high pick in the draft.
Failing that, if your goal is continue to be competitive in the short term, exchanging your disgruntled star for a lesser but still very productive and valuable star is pretty great.
The ceiling for this trade is that it allows the Spurs to continue to compete in the 45-55 win range and maybe try to win a playoff series. When you consider that they'd be in the same or worse position in the short term if they'd kept Kawhi, and worse position after next season when Kawhi inevitably left in free agency, that's pretty good.
Given all that, I'd give it an A-. Especially since they also added a solid, productive young big man and an okay-ish pick.
I agree with this. Is it possible Poetl is a bit underrated? He was the 9th pick in his draft and is only 22 now (centers take longer to develop sometimes). He averaged 7 and 5 in just 18 minutes last year. I don't know how far his shooting range is off hand..
-
They traded a disgruntled MVP caliber talent who hadn't played meaningful minutes for them in over a year for a guy who was selected to the All-NBA second team this year.
What's more, the guy they acquired in the trade can slot into almost the same role as guy they traded away. Granted, he's not nearly as good as the guy they traded, but if keeping Kawhi were an option they wouldn't have traded him.
If you have to trade your star you'd like to get a return that gives the trade a ceiling of what the Celts got out of the Brooklyn trade. In other words, multiple chances at getting a very high pick in the draft.
Failing that, if your goal is continue to be competitive in the short term, exchanging your disgruntled star for a lesser but still very productive and valuable star is pretty great.
The ceiling for this trade is that it allows the Spurs to continue to compete in the 45-55 win range and maybe try to win a playoff series. When you consider that they'd be in the same or worse position in the short term if they'd kept Kawhi, and worse position after next season when Kawhi inevitably left in free agency, that's pretty good.
Given all that, I'd give it an A-. Especially since they also added a solid, productive young big man and an okay-ish pick.
Good points Pho, but I doubt SAS ever had multiple firsts as its priority. They wanted to remain competitive.
-
They traded a disgruntled MVP caliber talent who hadn't played meaningful minutes for them in over a year for a guy who was selected to the All-NBA second team this year.
What's more, the guy they acquired in the trade can slot into almost the same role as guy they traded away. Granted, he's not nearly as good as the guy they traded, but if keeping Kawhi were an option they wouldn't have traded him.
If you have to trade your star you'd like to get a return that gives the trade a ceiling of what the Celts got out of the Brooklyn trade. In other words, multiple chances at getting a very high pick in the draft.
Failing that, if your goal is continue to be competitive in the short term, exchanging your disgruntled star for a lesser but still very productive and valuable star is pretty great.
The ceiling for this trade is that it allows the Spurs to continue to compete in the 45-55 win range and maybe try to win a playoff series. When you consider that they'd be in the same or worse position in the short term if they'd kept Kawhi, and worse position after next season when Kawhi inevitably left in free agency, that's pretty good.
Given all that, I'd give it an A-. Especially since they also added a solid, productive young big man and an okay-ish pick.
Good points Pho, but I doubt SAS ever had multiple firsts as its priority. They wanted to remain competitive.
Maybe not. I was speaking from an objective standpoint there; also, I imagine if a Billy King Nets deal had been available, I think the Spurs would have jumped on it regardless of their desire to remain competitive. No such deal was ever on the table from what I've read.
-
I agree with this. Is it possible Poetl is a bit underrated? He was the 9th pick in his draft and is only 22 now (centers take longer to develop sometimes). He averaged 7 and 5 in just 18 minutes last year. I don't know how far his shooting range is off hand..
Poeltl shot 44.4% on attempts in the 3-10 foot range and barely attempted anything beyond that.
He's also only decent rebounder (grabs about 14-15% of available boards).
I think Poeltl is a nice young center with potential to become a solid starting center.
The problem is, in today's league you can find nice, healthy, productive 20-28 minute centers for the MLE or less virtually every off-season.
That's not to say he isn't an asset, but I think his position and role is very easy and low-cost to fill. Therefore, not a huge asset.