Poll

Initial Reaction: Grade The Trade!

A+
40 (21.2%)
A / A-
37 (19.6%)
B+
28 (14.8%)
B / B-
24 (12.7%)
C+
9 (4.8%)
C / C-
15 (7.9%)
D+
6 (3.2%)
D / D-
6 (3.2%)
F
9 (4.8%)
Incomplete (I Just Can't Give It A Grade Yet)
15 (7.9%)

Total Members Voted: 187

Author Topic: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade  (Read 58983 times)

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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #345 on: July 16, 2019, 10:22:55 AM »

Offline wiley

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The great mistake was to believe we didn't have to choose, that we could just keep collecting assets and not worry about who was going to get to play. It worked fine until we hit a certain talent density, and then it fell apart.

We should have decided to load up young. We should have SGA or Wendell Carter. We should have let IT go and traded Crowder for whatever.

You are the first one, correctly, not to lump the pick in with the rest of the trade.  The alternative to the Kyrie trade should be seen as the #8 pick PLUS whatever came back in another trade. 

If Danny didn't want to pay IT, then what would have come back in an IT, Crowder Zizic trade?  Another first round pick from someone?  A player?  So, could have been SGA plus that something else...

but not worth looking at that now.  Changes that occur set in motion chains of events that can't be tracked.  I was against the trade when it happened because I didn't get a great vibe from Kyrie and was in love with IT, and thought that GH should get a chance to handle the ball a lot and be the leader.  Then I was rather supportive and hopeful when I saw how good Kyrie can be.  Then back to original thought.  Very happy with Kemba now joining.  So all is good. 

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #346 on: July 16, 2019, 11:02:29 AM »

Offline Moranis

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My issue with Ainge (and this trade in particular) was I never felt Irving was the right person to spend the assets on.  Having lived in Ohio my whole life and northeast Ohio for several years now, I saw Irving a lot and knew he wasn't a build around type player.  He just wasn't good enough.  So acquiring him to be the focal point was always a mistake.  Ainge needed to follow that trade up with another larger scale move and he just never did it.  I get that he thought Davis might be that move, but it became apparent that Davis (and probably Irving) didn't want to be here, yet Ainge still did nothing.  I mean aside from some rookies, Ainge didn't make a single move of any kind for an entire year.  Not a single one.  He did this knowing the lockerroom was a mess and the team wasn't a real contender, yet he still did nothing. 

So I gave the trade a C originally (mostly because I didn't think Irving was the right player), moved it to a B+ when IT's injury issues were more apparent/pronounced, and then moved it back to a C when Irving bolted.  But the real travesty has always been Ainge's indecision.  He wanted to grow for the future and build a contemporaneous championship contender at the same time, and he failed on both fronts.  Even if Tatum/Brown end up being good enough to be the main components of a contender, Ainge blew it by not adding players around them that could help them grow or be components of that title contender.  I mean how nice would SGA, Bridges, or Porter be.
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #347 on: July 16, 2019, 05:48:22 PM »

Offline greece66

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Considering IT never returned to form and the Brooklyn pick ended up 8th, we gave surprisingly little for an elite player.

Also at the time Irving was p enthusiastic about re-signing in Boston. I get it, he left in the end, but what were the Celtics supposed to do? Not trust the guy bcs he´s a headcase? This is hindsight used the wrong way.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #348 on: July 16, 2019, 07:12:22 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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Interesting that it ended up being a bad trade for both sides.   

We traded them damaged goods and they traded us poison in return. 

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #349 on: July 16, 2019, 07:18:20 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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A triple A plus for that trade. The alternative would have been close to max deal for IT and keeping that Nets pick. We would still be saddled with IT contract with no hope of him ever coming close to the amazing player he was.

I guess one could argue we would have been a lottery team or close to it the past few years with no Kyrie but that is a big stretch as well.

We got a top 15 player for an injured IT, a center from Europe and one Nets pick with chance of convincing Kyrie to stay. Amazing trade, even now that he bolted.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #350 on: July 16, 2019, 10:05:33 PM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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It seems that some are judging based on what we knew at the time and some are looking at end result. Based on end result, it was a horrible deal. It was a two year detour and while it's easy to measure the cost of what we gave up in the trade, the actual cost to the franchise is harder to quantify. How do measure the negativity, the hit in our franchise's perception, the hit to Brad's reputation? Did adding Kyrie prevent us from other opportunities? Did it affect Horford and Rozier's decisions to depart? We'll never know how things would have played out.

There was also the negative publicity cost of trading Thomas while he was injured. That was a hit on Ainge and the franchise's reputation, fairly or unfairly. Things ended up looking even worse when Irving turned out to represent everything that was the opposite of Thomas in terms of attitude, leadership, and buying in to the city of Boston.

They didn't want to take a risk on certain stars who were older, or ones who were rumored to be rentals (George, Leonard, Butler, etc.). They ended up taking the risk on a player who was the biggest head case of them all and one who didn't even have the courtesy to keep quiet and pretend like he might stay, affecting the team's play on court.

Anyway my main point is that the trade not "costing" them much in assets is misleading. There were definite, immeasurable costs to what happened this past season.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #351 on: July 16, 2019, 10:38:06 PM »

Offline action781

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I gave the trade a B/B- originally as I was excited about the potential of Kyrie and knew IT was never going to lead us to the promise land and was very nervous about us potentially giving him the Brinks truck.  On the other hand I was sad about the loss of Crowder and was worried the Brooklyn pick could have been a franchise changer.

I keep my grade the same.  Kyrie's presence I think set us back to some extent from the trajectory we were on (our game 7 in ECF was without him), but I still think it was worth the gamble.  You can never perfectly plan how everything is going to happen.  Keep our heads up high and keep looking forward.
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #352 on: July 16, 2019, 11:05:09 PM »

Offline Hank Finkel

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My reaction now is F.  But who knew Irving was such a head case.  He isn’t eating any team to the promised land.  Even with KD they will not. Ever win a championship with KI.  He is lucky he went along for the LeBron train ride to the top because it wont happen again. 

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #353 on: July 17, 2019, 02:19:27 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Considering IT never returned to form and the Brooklyn pick ended up 8th, we gave surprisingly little for an elite player.

Also at the time Irving was p enthusiastic about re-signing in Boston. I get it, he left in the end, but what were the Celtics supposed to do? Not trust the guy bcs he´s a headcase? This is hindsight used the wrong way.

Yes, that is the appropriate approach to a headcase - you do not trust them.
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