CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: bopna on February 17, 2018, 04:30:07 AM
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Its not picking up steam yet but there is talk that Lebron is some what as sure as signed in LA especially if PG13 goes there in the summer...what if the Fakers then offer a package of Ball(no more use if Lebron is there), Ingram and Kuzma to the Pelicans for Anthony Davis...wow.
That trio will give the Warriors and Rockets some competition...of course it all depends on how theyd be surrounded by role players but the Fakers might do it becausr PG and the King wont be enough to even get em a 3rd seed in the tough West but AD changes everything..
Question is will the Pelicans do it..I mean that is a very good package specially the way Kuzma has broken out better than Ball and Ingram is also slowly coming into his own..better package than any team could offer...thoughts.
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Hopefully the jinx factor of the negligible percent of trade suggestions that actually come to fruition will be in play here. Given that NO will likely lose Cousins and will not have cap space to sign anyone significant, they are treading water as a borderline playoff team for the foreseeable future. Therefore, the prospect of getting 3 young guys with potential might be appealing. However, the trade hardly makes for a promising future for New Orleans. None of the trio is likely to ever have the impact that AD has, and the Pels will still be stuck with little cap room and young players who will be coming into their own just as their contracts expire. Also, there's Lavar Ball.
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what if the Fakers then offer a package of Ball(no more use if Lebron is there), Ingram and Kuzma to the Pelicans for Anthony Davis...wow
Ball is not a great asset at this point. I flat our hate the Lakers. I hope they are terrible for a long long time....But I am too biased to comment on this matter in terms of a trade.
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Hopefully the jinx factor of the negligible percent of trade suggestions that actually come to fruition will be in play here. Given that NO will likely lose Cousins and will not have cap space to sign anyone significant, they are treading water as a borderline playoff team for the foreseeable future. Therefore, the prospect of getting 3 young guys with potential might be appealing. However, the trade hardly makes for a promising future for New Orleans. None of the trio is likely to ever have the impact that AD has, and the Pels will still be stuck with little cap room and young players who will be coming into their own just as their contracts expire. Also, there's Lavar Ball.
So the question ultimately becomes what sells the most tickets? Depending on other additions to the deal (draft picks, cash, bag of balls, etc) it might be a better prospect than what their future currently looks like at this time.
The good news is that if we get wind that AD is available, then we have the assets to top that trade easily, and we end up with him! :)
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You will need much more outgoing salary on the Lakers end for the trade to work, but who would that be? They will have to renounce Randle and stretch Deng in order to get cap space for 2 max slots. The rest of the roster will be made of low/minimum guys and they would need at least 5 mil more in salary along with Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma in order for a trade to work for Davis.
I just don’t see how the Lakers could pull this off.
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Stars have been traded for less. I would say Ball, Ingram and Kuzma is a package that would definitely catch the Pels attention. Especially if they’ve already talked to AD and he doesn’t seem likely to sign long term. Add a future 1st and I think Pels bite. Just my .02
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Screw the Lakers if they are able to make this happen. They have sucked for years, made terrible decisions regarding contracts, and just aren't very likeable in general. Now, they ho-hum yawn go and sign Lebron and George for free and then trade their remaining assets for the most valuable big man in the league.
Durant signing with the Warriors was a joke, but at least they legitimately built their championship team from the ground up to that point. The Lakers getting bailed out like this would just completely turn me off to basketball in general.
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Screw the Lakers if they are able to make this happen. They have sucked for years, made terrible decisions regarding contracts, and just aren't very likeable in general. Now, they ho-hum yawn go and sign Lebron and George for free and then trade their remaining assets for the most valuable big man in the league.
Durant signing with the Warriors was a joke, but at least they legitimately built their championship team from the ground up to that point. The Lakers getting bailed out like this would just completely turn me off to basketball in general.
Yeah I don't even understand in what world the Deng or Mozgov contracts even made financial sense.. Even with the cap spike, how can you justify paying someone like Deng, Noah, or Mozgov over anything less than 10 million. Jeez....
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Not enough they would need a high lottery pick or a established all star to include.
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You will need much more outgoing salary on the Lakers end for the trade to work, but who would that be? They will have to renounce Randle and stretch Deng in order to get cap space for 2 max slots. The rest of the roster will be made of low/minimum guys and they would need at least 5 mil more in salary along with Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma in order for a trade to work for Davis.
I just don’t see how the Lakers could pull this off.
AD will only be making 25.4M and Ball, Ingram and Kuzma will be making 14.9M combined. It wouldn't be that hard to make up the difference to salary match.
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If I ran the Pelican's I'd re-sign Boogie and try to find a couple of 3 point shooters, bring Rondo back and roll with that. That's a decent team. It would be foolish to break that up.
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They could do that, but then they have virtually no bench. That's like 3 guys right there potentially making a combined 100M unless Lebron or PG13 take a pay cut.
Also, Pelicans will definitely want back another piece, like a first round pick, AND frankly I don't think Lonzo's trade value is really that high, especially when you consider you are also taking back the headache of LaVar.. :P
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This trade just isn’t enough salary matching wise for the Lakers. It’s the same issue we have when we come up with ideas excluding Horford although we have a little more wiggle room.
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You will need much more outgoing salary on the Lakers end for the trade to work, but who would that be? They will have to renounce Randle and stretch Deng in order to get cap space for 2 max slots. The rest of the roster will be made of low/minimum guys and they would need at least 5 mil more in salary along with Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma in order for a trade to work for Davis.
I just don’t see how the Lakers could pull this off.
AD will only be making 25.4M and Ball, Ingram and Kuzma will be making 14.9M combined. It wouldn't be that hard to make up the difference to salary match.
Yes it would. Beyond those 3 Laker players and potentially George and LeBron you would have mostly low/minimum salary players so where is the additional salary coming from?
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I read the SI article that (I think) spawned this idea and it was entertaining at least.
https://www.si.com/nba/2018/02/13/anthony-davis-pelicans-lakers-lebron-james-paul-george-magic-johnson
Here is where it falls short:
Ball, Ingram and Kuzma (and Hart?) are not better assets than the picks/players the C's have. They just aren't.
Would you rather have Ingram or the LaKings pick? Ball or Tatum? Kuzma or the Memphis pick? Most of these are close in asset value, but to a rebuilding team, or a new front office, the allure of making picks and longer term team control is high.
Additionally, this whole idea is predicated on George and James coming, far from a forgone conclusion.
Lots of teams could put together packages around young talented players and high draft picks. The only team that has those assets in addition to talented veterans and a winning team right now is Boston. We are a team that, without any FA what-ifs, can offer the Pelicans one or two very attractive wing prospects, a likely top-5 pick in 2019, and likely lottery pick in 19/20/21 via Memphis. The Lakers can't offer this years pick, and any of their picks in subsequent year would be compromised value-wise by having Davis and two other max free agents.
It really doesn't make any sense unless you think Demps just does this to save his job and try to sell tickets to the Ball family circus.
My genuine reaction is that lots of other teams, aside from the Celtics, can make compelling offers to the Pelicans for Davis. The problem is that they won't, because only teams that can offer premium assets and still have a team Davis wants to play for will be offering anything at all. We're on the very short list of teams that can do that. Depending on FA, the Lakers might be too. I just think even if everything breaks right for LA we still have a better offer.
The only thing I can see really competing with our offer to NOLA is if some team with a younger unicorn wants to bet on Davis. It obviously won't happen but something like:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yahytocq
They get off of Holiday's contract for slightly shorter deals (and worse players), get KAT under team control for 2 years, and kick off a rebuild around him. Minnesota gets the better player, upgrades their PG and moves in to actual contention, along with luxury tax for breakfast lunch and dinner.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaqowhf3
It would be very Knicksy to move their own pick, KP and probably a future pick for Davis. Go Dolan go!
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I read the SI article that (I think) spawned this idea and it was entertaining at least.
https://www.si.com/nba/2018/02/13/anthony-davis-pelicans-lakers-lebron-james-paul-george-magic-johnson
Here is where it falls short:
Ball, Ingram and Kuzma (and Hart?) are not better assets than the picks/players the C's have. They just aren't.
Would you rather have Ingram or the LaKings pick? Ball or Tatum? Kuzma or the Memphis pick? Most of these are close in asset value, but to a rebuilding team, or a new front office, the allure of making picks and longer term team control is high.
Additionally, this whole idea is predicated on George and James coming, far from a forgone conclusion.
Lots of teams could put together packages around young talented players and high draft picks. The only team that has those assets in addition to talented veterans and a winning team right now is Boston. We are a team that, without any FA what-ifs, can offer the Pelicans one or two very attractive wing prospects, a likely top-5 pick in 2019, and likely lottery pick in 19/20/21 via Memphis. The Lakers can't offer this years pick, and any of their picks in subsequent year would be compromised value-wise by having Davis and two other max free agents.
It really doesn't make any sense unless you think Demps just does this to save his job and try to sell tickets to the Ball family circus.
My genuine reaction is that lots of other teams, aside from the Celtics, can make compelling offers to the Pelicans for Davis. The problem is that they won't, because only teams that can offer premium assets and still have a team Davis wants to play for will be offering anything at all. We're on the very short list of teams that can do that. Depending on FA, the Lakers might be too. I just think even if everything breaks right for LA we still have a better offer.
The only thing I can see really competing with our offer to NOLA is if some team with a younger unicorn wants to bet on Davis. It obviously won't happen but something like:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yahytocq
They get off of Holiday's contract for slightly shorter deals (and worse players), get KAT under team control for 2 years, and kick off a rebuild around him. Minnesota gets the better player, upgrades their PG and moves in to actual contention, along with luxury tax for breakfast lunch and dinner.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaqowhf3
It would be very Knicksy to move their own pick, KP and probably a future pick for Davis. Go Dolan go!
Okay, you take kuzma over the Memphis pick all day long. Also take Ingram over the Kings pick. Of course, you lined them up wrong. I’d take Tatum over Ingram and the Memphis pick versus ball is maybe a push.
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You will need much more outgoing salary on the Lakers end for the trade to work, but who would that be? They will have to renounce Randle and stretch Deng in order to get cap space for 2 max slots. The rest of the roster will be made of low/minimum guys and they would need at least 5 mil more in salary along with Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma in order for a trade to work for Davis.
I just don’t see how the Lakers could pull this off.
AD will only be making 25.4M and Ball, Ingram and Kuzma will be making 14.9M combined. It wouldn't be that hard to make up the difference to salary match.
Yes it would. Beyond those 3 Laker players and potentially George and LeBron you would have mostly low/minimum salary players so where is the additional salary coming from?
They don't have to stretch Deng if they use his salary and trade for Davis before signing any free agents. Say they trade Deng, Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma for Davis (I believe that works using next year's salary figures, but if not a minimum Pelican player could be sent back). Davis, plus the empty cap holds, and the other near minimum contracts they have (like Zubac) put their salary at around 37 million. James' contract value will be around 35-36 and George will be around 30-31. So you add those 3 groups together and they are under the cap. It would mean New Orleans would have to take on Deng, but it is certainly doable.
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I think if he actually becomes available, they could get more.
Ball is gonna be what he is, a poor scoring PG with very good passing and decent defense. His potential is a poor mans Kidd. I don’t think he can become what Kidd became at the stripe or beyond the arc, his shot is that bad.
Ingram should be able to score effectively, but he’s so weak. Even if they trust his individual D, I don’t like his team defense. Scorers are common in this league.
The hype on Kuzma has died down, finally. Decent bench guy potentially I guess but way more role player than impact player.
If they are gonna shop the best big in the game, you think THAT package is the best offer they will get?
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A few things to consider:
-That's selling extremely low on Ball. Too low.
-GM's perceive the value of players differently. For example, the Kings considered Hield to be "the next Curry" in the Boogie trade.
-LeBron to LA doesn't seem to be a foregone conclusion. Even with PG, that's still a very young, suspect contender (esp out West). Also consider that GSW brings back their entire core next year, including Livingston and Iggy.
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Unless the Pels were under duress and had to find a trade for Davis, they wouldn't do this one. Davis is a franchise player, but the Lakers' offer would be a group of players to whom I wouldn't deem to have anything but fringe all-star potential.