Who is more important for the Celtics - Horford or Smart?

[keevsnick]

Ya I may be in the minority here but I think Smart has very little to do with out struggles right now. Our big problem has been offense and he isn't helping that much. We were starting to crsck before he went out (losses to Magic and Lakers), he isn't gonna stop Jordan from dropping 30 or Oladipo from netting 35. I know this cuz Oladipo had 38 when smart did play. We just need to play better as a team.

[Geo123]

C'mon? Seriously?

Let's remove bias from the equation here.   

+1

[Tr1boy]

I think Horford is clearly more important than Smart, but taking salaries into account and who might be the replacement for Horford, I don't think triboy is so far off. Whether you like Smart or not, he obviously has an impact on our defensive unit as a whole.

There was a poll a few weeks ago about who we thought was the best defensive player on the Cs. At the time, I felt the answer was Horford, but I would like to change my answer to Smart. Positional defense is important, but the way Smart plays defense is uplifting to the whole team.

I have enjoyed watching Horford play and I still want to see him play with Hayward, but I will survive if he is included in a deal for Davis.

+1
Agree

[green_bballers13]

I appreciate the hot take, but I'm not nibbling on your Horford bait. Guy makes a lot of money, but blame that on Danny. He is an above average player in almost every aspect of the game. Smart is a good defensive player and not a good offensive player.

It's the regular season. No need to freak out over a team that is 40-19 missing Hayward.

[Tr1boy]

Ya I may be in the minority here but I think Smart has very little to do with out struggles right now. Our big problem has been offense and he isn't helping that much. We were starting to crsck before he went out (losses to Magic and Lakers), he isn't gonna stop Jordan from dropping 30 or Oladipo from netting 35. I know this cuz Oladipo had 38 when smart did play. We just need to play better as a team.

He may not stop jordan but I bet he does a better job in boxing him out/taking charges ...

Also his ability to inspire the team on defense...unmeasurable

Like Jambr380 stated..I rather keep smart next season and moving forward and replace Horford at half the cost

[Tr1boy]

You cant have a big player who makes as much as Horford does...not protect the rim, not be a defensive anchor

Draymond Green is 6'6... There is no excuse

[trickybilly]

OK, triboy, I'll bite

I voted Horford on the balance of probabilities, but I see where you are going.

If Marcus was shooting 43 from 3 this would be a TOTALLY different conversation though...

[keevsnick]

Ya I may be in the minority here but I think Smart has very little to do with out struggles right now. Our big problem has been offense and he isn't helping that much. We were starting to crsck before he went out (losses to Magic and Lakers), he isn't gonna stop Jordan from dropping 30 or Oladipo from netting 35. I know this cuz Oladipo had 38 when smart did play. We just need to play better as a team.

He may not stop jordan but I bet he does a better job in boxing him out/taking charges ...

Also his ability to inspire the team on defense...unmeasurable

Like Jambr380 stated..I rather keep smart next season and moving forward and replace Horford at half the cost

Then you are gonna have a dramatically worse team.

[green_bballers13]

Ya I may be in the minority here but I think Smart has very little to do with out struggles right now. Our big problem has been offense and he isn't helping that much. We were starting to crsck before he went out (losses to Magic and Lakers), he isn't gonna stop Jordan from dropping 30 or Oladipo from netting 35. I know this cuz Oladipo had 38 when smart did play. We just need to play better as a team.

He may not stop jordan but I bet he does a better job in boxing him out/taking charges ...

Also his ability to inspire the team on defense...unmeasurable

Like Jambr380 stated..I rather keep smart next season and moving forward and replace Horford at half the cost

How?

[seancally]

Ya I may be in the minority here but I think Smart has very little to do with out struggles right now. Our big problem has been offense and he isn't helping that much. We were starting to crsck before he went out (losses to Magic and Lakers), he isn't gonna stop Jordan from dropping 30 or Oladipo from netting 35. I know this cuz Oladipo had 38 when smart did play. We just need to play better as a team.

He may not stop jordan but I bet he does a better job in boxing him out/taking charges ...

Also his ability to inspire the team on defense...unmeasurable

Like Jambr380 stated..I rather keep smart next season and moving forward and replace Horford at half the cost

I'd also say a lot of stopping DJ starts with containing penetration and preventing clear looks for lobs.

[CapnDunks]

Draymond Green is horrible defensively. Warriors gave up 120 points twice in the last 5 games. Sound logic. Nevermind that EVERY defensive statistic says otherwise.

[RodyTur10]

I think the question would be better (even though I don't completely dismiss Triboy's case) if the question was ''Who is more important for the Celtics defensively?''.

Horford has been very disappointing defensively lately. His on-ball defense against forwards has been subpar and his help defense has been atrocious. I'm tired of seeing Horford at center, because he's just not a rim protector. Also rebounding has not been good.

Smart is the real anchorman on defense. Still underrated in the league as a defender. The Celtics need Smart. We are a different team without him. Therefore I say that Smart is definitely more important for the Celtics defensively.

 

[Neurotic Guy]

I hope teams across the league are asleep at the wheel as the C's defense tanks while their engine heals his hand.   I fully expect the C's defense to pick up after Smart returns.  Whether this is entirely due to Marcus, or partly due to a mid-season lull that would have occurred regardless, I don't know.  But the appearance is that Smart brings a contagious energy to the defensive side of the ball and that his presence is the primary catalyst for the team's defense.   As other GMs notice this, his market price rises.

[mmmmm]

This thread is just ... nuts.

Horford's defensive numbers this season are phenomenal and his value to this team on the defensive end alone has dwarfed Smarts total value on both ends.  Seriously.  It is not close.

Not only does Horford typically end up contesting far more shots each game than Smart, he also has a dramatically bigger defensive impact (reduction in opponent efficiency) on those shots.   Horford contests an average of 16.2 shots per game this season, imposing a massive -6.7% DFG% differential.

Smart contests 9.0 shots per game, imposing a -3.3% differential.

And no, despite the rather sad flop of the _team's_ defense the last game, Horford has continued to have this sort of elite defensive impact even through the team's recent struggles.  Over the last 15 games, he's contested 16.7 shots per game and imposed a -7.6% differential.

Add in all the other things Horford does (defensive rebounds, blocks, disruption of passing lanes, hedging, etc.) and it's not remotely close.  Horford's WS/48 rate just for defense alone is twice Smart's _total_ WS/48 rate!

Across the NBA, Horford is 3rd in shots-defended per game, and among the top 10 guys in shots defended per game, he leads by far with the biggest differential.  In fact none of those 10 other players has even a -5.0% differential.

Horford is legitimately going to be in consideration for DPOY this year.   Smart will not be in that conversation.

And then there is offense.   Please.    This should not even be a thread.

[nickagneta]

This thread is just ... nuts.

Horford's defensive numbers this season are phenomenal and his value to this team on the defensive end alone has dwarfed Smarts total value on both ends.  Seriously.  It is not close.

Not only does Horford typically end up contesting far more shots each game than Smart, he also has a dramatically bigger defensive impact (reduction in opponent efficiency) on those shots.   Horford contests an average of 16.2 shots per game this season, imposing a massive -6.7% DFG% differential.

Smart contests 9.0 shots per game, imposing a -3.3% differential.

And no, despite the rather sad flop of the _team's_ defense the last game, Horford has continued to have this sort of elite defensive impact even through the team's recent struggles.  Over the last 15 games, he's contested 16.7 shots per game and imposed a -7.6% differential.

Add in all the other things Horford does (defensive rebounds, blocks, disruption of passing lanes, hedging, etc.) and it's not remotely close.  Horford's WS/48 rate just for defense alone is twice Smart's _total_ WS/48 rate!

Across the NBA, Horford is 3rd in shots-defended per game, and among the top 10 guys in shots defended per game, he leads by far with the biggest differential.  In fact none of those 10 other players has even a -5.0% differential.

Horford is legitimately going to be in consideration for DPOY this year.   Smart will not be in that conversation.

And then there is offense.   Please.    This should not even be a thread.

Ding ding ding...we have a winner. TP