My scary but plausable Cs/GS/DET trade idea

[CFAN38]

Pulling together a few rumors that have been floating around

1. GS wants to trade down / out and get a vet
2. Cs have been trying to trade up for an undisclosed target in the mid lottery
3. Ball in boston to visit with Puma
4. Pistons are willing to trade down in the draft

Celtics get #2, Wiggins, and #48

Pistons get #14,#26, R Williams, Porier, and cash (to cover Porier's contract)

Warriors get Hayward and #7


Let me first say as a Celtics fan this trade scares me!


Logic behind the acquisitions

Warriors, they add Hayward who is on the same career timeline as Steph,Klay and Green. A healthy Hayward is the perfect fit along side their 3 stars. He becomes there secondary play maker and is a nice defensive option at the 4 when they go small. With the #7 pick the Warriors can still get a solid young player and one with less risk then the players available at #2. Okongwu is the logical fit but I could also see them go with Toppin or Haliburton.

Detroit, by dropping down from #7 to #14 the talent starved Pistons shouldn't see a major difference in the caliber of player available. They are rumored to really want P Williams but if a team jumps ahead of them and takes him #6 then a trade down makes a lot of sense. At #14 they could grab a young PG to play along side and learn from D Rose options include C Anthony, Maxey or Lewis jr. R Williams would insert nicely as their starting Center and on a team with less lofty playoff aspirations he can be allowed to play through his mistakes and I suspect he puts up a really nice statistical season. #26 would be another opportunity to add a young piece to the roster.

CELTICS, this is a scary trade but one that brings talent to the roster. The #2 pick be it Ball, Wiseman or Ewards will be placed in a unique position where they will be expected to contribute right away on a team that just competed in the conference finals. Wiseman is the logical fit and while allocating assets to the Center position is less then ideal in today's NBA his talent may warrant it. Edwards I expect to go #1 but if he is available at #2 his physical profile and theoretical fit along side Brown and Tatum becomes really interesting. Long term he could grow into the secondary creation role behind Tatum and next to Smart the Cs would have two linebackers for guards. A Smart, Edwards, Brown, Tatum defense would be effectively switch proof vs everyone except the biggest centers. Ball has the in Boston for Puma rumors already and while they are probably just that its not fare fetched to speculate the Cs having interest. If DA and BS feel he is a legit prospect and a kid who can fit the teams culture then this trade makes sense. His passing is top of the NBA elite and his off the dribble creation is at a really high level for a 6'7 player. His shot and defense would be the coaching staffs major projects. His confidence to shoot gives me hope that he will at least be a threat to shoot and a player teams will not pay under screens. In many ways he could be a 6'7 Celtics era Rondo on offense. On defense his size and BB IQ should at least give him a floor as a serviceable defender. For a coaching staff accustomed to hiding small guards (IT and Kemba) I have little doubt they can at least protect him from being exploited by other teams. The addition of Wiggins is also an interesting project for Stevens and the staff. The hope would be that in a lower usage role he can shoot a higher percentage and exploit his match-ups as Tatum draws the toughest defenders away from him. He is still only 25 and came into the league with the hope that he would be an elite defender to go along with his offensive skills. If he can tap into that the Cs would have a super athletic trio of wings who will cause match-up issues for every team in the east. With the addition of Ball/Edwards and Wiggins its plausible that Wiggins could be played as the Cs 6th man with Smart sliding to the starting lineup. This would give the Cs two dynamic offensive threats coming off the bench in a conference where the tops teams are desperate for depth. Last the addition of the #48 would allow the Cs to add a cheap but likely roster worthy prospect to the team. They could also package 47 and 48 to move up into the 30s if they have a target in mind.

Hypothetical 2020-2021 Celtics

Starters
Kemba
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Theis

Bench
Wiggins
Ball/A Edwards
Baynes/Noel (if Kanter opts out)
G Williams
Langford
#30 (hope for Tillman)
#47/#48 (combine to trade up from a player)
Waters (sign as FA)
C Edwards             

[BMark]

I think this is a well thought out trade.  Det may want a little more-the Cs second round pick could do it

[Darth_Yoda]

Massive tax bills when Tatum gets extended.

Personally, I would just do this instead.

Hayward and something (Timelord? 26?, 14?) to GSW
Wiggins and #2 to Detroit
#7 and wood sign and trade to Boston.

Kemba/#7
Smart/Romeo
Brown/
Tatum/GrantW
Wood/Theis

[Vermont Green]

I don't see the need to have Detroit involved.  You are using Detroit to trade up from #14 to pick #7 so you can send that back to GSW.  I would keep it at Hayward and #14 for Wiggins and #2.  If this doesn't do it for GSW, then just pass.  I would not give up even more for Wiggins and #2. 

Just this simplified version of the trade will generate plenty of debate/discussion but I think is something I would consider.  Wiggins is a bad contract, that is for sure but he is only 25.  He could be a useful bench scorer for us.  Hayward is a very solid vet for GSW, more what they need for their current timeline.  And we get the #2 which if it is Wiseman, could be a very good thing, more suited to our timeline.

[RPGenerate]

Hmm I really dislike Wiggins and his contract, but getting that 2nd pick is super enticing to me. I'm undecided.

[footey]

I don't see the need to have Detroit involved.  You are using Detroit to trade up from #14 to pick #7 so you can send that back to GSW.  I would keep it at Hayward and #14 for Wiggins and #2.  If this doesn't do it for GSW, then just pass.  I would not give up even more for Wiggins and #2. 

Just this simplified version of the trade will generate plenty of debate/discussion but I think is something I would consider.  Wiggins is a bad contract, that is for sure but he is only 25.  He could be a useful bench scorer for us.  Hayward is a very solid vet for GSW, more what they need for their current timeline.  And we get the #2 which if it is Wiseman, could be a very good thing, more suited to our timeline.

This could work for me. OP proposal does not; Detroit really gets nothing out of it.

Hayward would have to opt in, unless he opted out and agreed to a sign and trade.

GS would have to throw in another dude to make salaries match unless Hayward agrees to opt out and do a sign and trade with GSW where salaries matched.

I just don't know if GS likes Hayward that much more than Andrew Wiggins. They should, but every team management has its own views on guys. 

This would assume that the Celtics wanted to resuscitate Wiggins' career.  He'd be coming off the bench in all likelihood.

If MT takes Edwards as reported, would we draft Wiseman or Ball? I'd take Ball.  Much more upside, elite passer and pick and roll guy.  Teammates would thrive with him.  Defense can be learned. His brother became a much better defender in the NBA than he was in college. The tools are there.

[Darth_Yoda]

Taking on the wiggins contract would cost ownership 60+ million in tax.

Kemba - 35 mill
Brown - 28 mill
Wiggins - 35 mill
Tatum Max - 35 mill
Pick number 2 -9 million

That team is over the tax already and is only 5 players deep
Add in Smart at 15 mill
Theis at 5 mill

Other draft picks
and even at just all vet mins to finish out roster and the team will be miles over the cap.



Need Wiggins to go elsewhere.

Having the #7 and a large TPE to sign players into is far more valuable than Wiggins and 2.

[RodyTur10]

I don't see the need to have Detroit involved.  You are using Detroit to trade up from #14 to pick #7 so you can send that back to GSW.  I would keep it at Hayward and #14 for Wiggins and #2.  If this doesn't do it for GSW, then just pass.  I would not give up even more for Wiggins and #2. 

Just this simplified version of the trade will generate plenty of debate/discussion but I think is something I would consider.  Wiggins is a bad contract, that is for sure but he is only 25.  He could be a useful bench scorer for us.  Hayward is a very solid vet for GSW, more what they need for their current timeline.  And we get the #2 which if it is Wiseman, could be a very good thing, more suited to our timeline.

Yes, simplify it. For Golden State it would be great to switch Wiggins => Hayward by trading down just 5 spots.

Hayward + #14 for Wiggins + #2 is something to contemplate. Valuewise that's okay I think (maybe add #30 or so).
Problem is that Walker/Smart/Wiggins/Brown/Tatum is still too expensive to keep on the roster longterm.

[footey]

I don't see the need to have Detroit involved.  You are using Detroit to trade up from #14 to pick #7 so you can send that back to GSW.  I would keep it at Hayward and #14 for Wiggins and #2.  If this doesn't do it for GSW, then just pass.  I would not give up even more for Wiggins and #2. 

Just this simplified version of the trade will generate plenty of debate/discussion but I think is something I would consider.  Wiggins is a bad contract, that is for sure but he is only 25.  He could be a useful bench scorer for us.  Hayward is a very solid vet for GSW, more what they need for their current timeline.  And we get the #2 which if it is Wiseman, could be a very good thing, more suited to our timeline.

Yes, simplify it. For Golden State it would be great to switch Wiggins => Hayward by trading down just 5 spots.

Hayward + #14 for Wiggins + #2 is something to contemplate. Valuewise that's okay I think (maybe add #30 or so).
Problem is that Walker/Smart/Wiggins/Brown/Tatum is still too expensive to keep on the roster longterm.

We could later move Wiggins by packaging him with a pick or two to a team that has the cap space to absorb him. We could do that before the 21/22 season, when Tatum's salary kicks in.  We are going to be stuck with tax for 20/21 unless Hayward opts out and leaves, so it is not costing us anything more there.

[Sophomore]

Massive tax bills when Tatum gets extended.

Personally, I would just do this instead.

Hayward and something (Timelord? 26?, 14?) to GSW
Wiggins and #2 to Detroit
#7 and wood sign and trade to Boston.

Kemba/#7
Smart/Romeo
Brown/
Tatum/GrantW
Wood/Theis

I’d call that a better deal for Boston than the OP’s deal; not sure GSW or Detroit would go for it.

Do the salaries work? We’d be saving a *ton* of salary, so we could most likely use the full MLE. Also a good chance to get a player at 7 who’d play rotation minutes next year.

I’d still rather keep Hayward but if he’s got to go this is better than Turner as a return.

[Darth_Yoda]

Massive tax bills when Tatum gets extended.

Personally, I would just do this instead.

Hayward and something (Timelord? 26?, 14?) to GSW
Wiggins and #2 to Detroit
#7 and wood sign and trade to Boston.

Kemba/#7
Smart/Romeo
Brown/
Tatum/GrantW
Wood/Theis

I’d call that a better deal for Boston than the OP’s deal; not sure GSW or Detroit would go for it.

Do the salaries work? We’d be saving a *ton* of salary, so we could most likely use the full MLE. Also a good chance to get a player at 7 who’d play rotation minutes next year.

I’d still rather keep Hayward but if he’s got to go this is better than Turner as a return.

It all works financially.

7 might land Okongwu too.


Although, like you, I would rather keep Hayward.

My ideal offseason right now would be to trade Kemba to NYK for TPE and #8.
Sign Wood with the TPE and 26
Sign Baynes with the TPE and a second

Draft Haliburton or Hayes at 8
Draft Hampton at 14
Draft Tillman or Tyler Bey at 30
Draft any of the potential wings at 47
MLE on a vet PG

Smart/Hayes/MLE
Brown/Hampton/edwards
Hayward/Romeo/#47
Tatum/GrantW/Tillman
Wood/Theis/Timelord

[footey]

Massive tax bills when Tatum gets extended.

Personally, I would just do this instead.

Hayward and something (Timelord? 26?, 14?) to GSW
Wiggins and #2 to Detroit
#7 and wood sign and trade to Boston.

Kemba/#7
Smart/Romeo
Brown/
Tatum/GrantW
Wood/Theis

I’d call that a better deal for Boston than the OP’s deal; not sure GSW or Detroit would go for it.

Do the salaries work? We’d be saving a *ton* of salary, so we could most likely use the full MLE. Also a good chance to get a player at 7 who’d play rotation minutes next year.

I’d still rather keep Hayward but if he’s got to go this is better than Turner as a return.

It all works financially.

7 might land Okongwu too.


Although, like you, I would rather keep Hayward.

My ideal offseason right now would be to trade Kemba to NYK for TPE and #8.
Sign Wood with the TPE and 26
Sign Baynes with the TPE and a second

Draft Haliburton or Hayes at 8
Draft Hampton at 14
Draft Tillman or Tyler Bey at 30
Draft any of the potential wings at 47
MLE on a vet PG

Smart/Hayes/MLE
Brown/Hampton/edwards
Hayward/Romeo/#47
Tatum/GrantW/Tillman
Wood/Theis/Timelord

TPE doesn't create cap space to sign a FA; just to absorb a player contract in a trade. Right?

[CFAN38]

Massive tax bills when Tatum gets extended.

Personally, I would just do this instead.

Hayward and something (Timelord? 26?, 14?) to GSW
Wiggins and #2 to Detroit
#7 and wood sign and trade to Boston.

Kemba/#7
Smart/Romeo
Brown/
Tatum/GrantW
Wood/Theis

I’d call that a better deal for Boston than the OP’s deal; not sure GSW or Detroit would go for it.

Do the salaries work? We’d be saving a *ton* of salary, so we could most likely use the full MLE. Also a good chance to get a player at 7 who’d play rotation minutes next year.

I’d still rather keep Hayward but if he’s got to go this is better than Turner as a return.

Much of my original idea was based around the idea that the Cs maybe trying to trade up because a higher lottery pick is required for a GS trade.

[footey]

Massive tax bills when Tatum gets extended.

Personally, I would just do this instead.

Hayward and something (Timelord? 26?, 14?) to GSW
Wiggins and #2 to Detroit
#7 and wood sign and trade to Boston.

Kemba/#7
Smart/Romeo
Brown/
Tatum/GrantW
Wood/Theis

I’d call that a better deal for Boston than the OP’s deal; not sure GSW or Detroit would go for it.

Do the salaries work? We’d be saving a *ton* of salary, so we could most likely use the full MLE. Also a good chance to get a player at 7 who’d play rotation minutes next year.

I’d still rather keep Hayward but if he’s got to go this is better than Turner as a return.

Much of my original idea was based around the idea that the Cs maybe trying to trade up because a higher lottery pick is required for a GS trade.

Safe to assume they would prefer a proven NBA starter of GH quality, plus the 14th pick in a flat draft, given their desire to compete now with back 9 personnel.

[Darth_Yoda]

Massive tax bills when Tatum gets extended.

Personally, I would just do this instead.

Hayward and something (Timelord? 26?, 14?) to GSW
Wiggins and #2 to Detroit
#7 and wood sign and trade to Boston.

Kemba/#7
Smart/Romeo
Brown/
Tatum/GrantW
Wood/Theis

I’d call that a better deal for Boston than the OP’s deal; not sure GSW or Detroit would go for it.

Do the salaries work? We’d be saving a *ton* of salary, so we could most likely use the full MLE. Also a good chance to get a player at 7 who’d play rotation minutes next year.

I’d still rather keep Hayward but if he’s got to go this is better than Turner as a return.

It all works financially.

7 might land Okongwu too.


Although, like you, I would rather keep Hayward.

My ideal offseason right now would be to trade Kemba to NYK for TPE and #8.
Sign Wood with the TPE and 26
Sign Baynes with the TPE and a second

Draft Haliburton or Hayes at 8
Draft Hampton at 14
Draft Tillman or Tyler Bey at 30
Draft any of the potential wings at 47
MLE on a vet PG

Smart/Hayes/MLE
Brown/Hampton/edwards
Hayward/Romeo/#47
Tatum/GrantW/Tillman
Wood/Theis/Timelord

TPE doesn't create cap space to sign a FA; just to absorb a player contract in a trade. Right?

Right, so a late pick or a second rounder might be required to get a team to play ball with the sign and trade,