Jrue Holiday to C's Rumor

[Darth_Yoda]

A direct trade Jrue for Hayward works in Trade NBA:

It doesn't work tax-wise going forward.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that:

• We trade Hayward + #14 + #26 for Jrue (I believe tradeNBA is wrong and the Pels would have to send us a filler, but that's not the point here).
• The cap plateaus at $109,140,000 for 2 seasons, due to the impending recession.
• Tatum and Jrue re-sign with the C's in 2021 for the 30% max. It only takes one desperate team to make one desperate offer to Jrue. Even if it never happens, we should be making our calculations based on this scenario.
• Next year's pick ends up at #26 (just like this year).
• We let Theis walk in 2021.
• We fill the remaining roster spots with rookie minimum contracts (best case scenario regarding the tax situation).

payroll for 2021/22:

1. Kemba $36,016,200
2. Jrue $32,742,000 (=30% of the cap)
3. Tatum $32,742,000 (=30% of the cap)
4. Brown $25,794,643
5. Smart $13,839,285
6. Langford $3,804,360
7. R. Williams $3,661,976
8. G. Williams $2,617,800
9. Celtics 2021 pick $2,331,600
10. Bucks pick $2,142,240
11. Edwards $1,782,621
12. rookie minimum $1,028,851
13. rookie minimum $1,028,851
14. rookie minimum $1,028,851
15. rookie minimum $1,028,851

dead cap
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

total: $162,722,066

Luxury Tax Threshold: $132,627,000

The Celtics would be $30,095,066 over the tax line!

For a non-repeater, the tax breaks down like this:

150% for amounts up to $5 million over the threshold
175% from $5-10 million.
250% from $10-15 million.
325% from $15-20 million.
375% from $20-25 million.
425% from $25-30 million.
475% from $30-35 million.
and so on

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $451,563.5 = $85,451,563.5 in luxury tax!

Fwiw, the biggest amount ever paid in luxury tax is $61.6 million (by the Thunder in 2018/19).

tl;dr
In this scenario, the Celtics would have to pay ~$85 million in luxury tax!

Would HAVE to trade away Kemba as well.

However.

Kemba and Poirier to NYK for #8
Hayward, Edwards and #14 and #26 to Pelicans
Jrue, Reddick, #8 and #39 to Boston

This creates a 28 million dollar TPE
JJ is an expiring 13 million
Frank is an expiring 6.1 million

Sign Baynes
Offer some TPE plus a pick for Gallo.
Draft Okongwu at 8 (Hayes or Haliburton if he is gone.
Draft Theo Maledon at 30 (if Okongwu is gone and a PG is drafted at 8 draft Tillman, Oturu or Poku)
Draft BPA in Second round for fit/need

assuming a PG drafted at 8

Smart/Hayes/Frank
Jrue/Reddick/2nd rounder
Brown/Romeo/2nd rounder
Tatum/#30/GrantW
Baynes/Theis/Timelord

Assuming Okongwu is drafted at 8
Smart/Frank/Maledon
Jrue/Reddick/2nd rounder
Brown/Romeo/2nd Rounder
Tatum/Theis/GrantW
Baynes/Okongwu/Timelord

[Roy H.]

Boston out:  Kemba, Hayward, picks
Boston in: Turner, Jrue, McDermott or Redick

Does that make us better? More sustainable financially?

[Jvalin]

A direct trade Jrue for Hayward works in Trade NBA:

It doesn't work tax-wise going forward.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that:

• We trade Hayward + #14 + #26 to the Pels for Jrue. The more picks we include, the easier it becomes to afford the tax going forward. For the record, I believe tradeNBA is wrong and the Pels would have to send us a filler, but that's not the point here.
• The cap plateaus at $109,140,000 for 2 seasons, due to the impending recession.
• Tatum and Jrue re-sign with the C's in 2021 for the 30% max. It only takes one desperate team to make one desperate offer to Jrue. Even if it never happens, we should be making our calculations based on this scenario.
• Next year's pick ends up at #26 (just like this year).
• We let Theis walk in 2021.
• We fill the remaining roster spots with rookie minimum contracts (best case scenario regarding the tax situation).

payroll for 2021/22:

1. Kemba $36,016,200
2. Jrue $32,742,000 (=30% of the cap)
3. Tatum $32,742,000 (=30% of the cap)
4. Brown $25,794,643
5. Smart $13,839,285
6. Langford $3,804,360
7. R. Williams $3,661,976
8. G. Williams $2,617,800
9. Celtics 2021 pick $2,331,600
10. Bucks pick $2,142,240
11. Edwards $1,782,621
12. rookie minimum $1,028,851
13. rookie minimum $1,028,851
14. rookie minimum $1,028,851
15. rookie minimum $1,028,851

dead cap
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

total: $162,722,066

Luxury Tax Threshold: $132,627,000

The Celtics would be $30,095,066 over the tax line!

For a non-repeater, the tax breaks down like this:

150% for amounts up to $5 million over the threshold
175% from $5-10 million.
250% from $10-15 million.
325% from $15-20 million.
375% from $20-25 million.
425% from $25-30 million.
475% from $30-35 million.
and so on

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $451,563.5 = $85,451,563.5 in luxury tax!

Fwiw, the biggest amount ever paid in luxury tax is $61.6 million (by the Thunder in 2018/19).

tl;dr
In this scenario, the Celtics would have to pay ~$85 million in luxury tax!

31 year old Holiday isn't getting a 30% Max offer.  It'll be closer to 25%.  The same tax issue exists with re-signing Hayward.

It doesn't have to be the full 4-year max. All it takes is an offer of 30% of the cap in year 1. Whomever is interested in Jrue would make it as difficult as possible for us to re-sign him.

It's not the same with Hayward. He ain't a max player anymore. No one on their right mind would offer Hayward $32,742,000 in year one.

[wdleehi]

A direct trade Jrue for Hayward works in Trade NBA:

It doesn't work tax-wise going forward.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that:

• We trade Hayward + #14 + #26 for Jrue (I believe tradeNBA is wrong and the Pels would have to send us a filler, but that's not the point here).
• The cap plateaus at $109,140,000 for 2 seasons, due to the impending recession.
• Tatum and Jrue re-sign with the C's in 2021 for the 30% max. It only takes one desperate team to make one desperate offer to Jrue. Even if it never happens, we should be making our calculations based on this scenario.
• Next year's pick ends up at #26 (just like this year).
• We let Theis walk in 2021.
• We fill the remaining roster spots with rookie minimum contracts (best case scenario regarding the tax situation).

payroll for 2021/22:

1. Kemba $36,016,200
2. Jrue $32,742,000 (=30% of the cap)
3. Tatum $32,742,000 (=30% of the cap)
4. Brown $25,794,643
5. Smart $13,839,285
6. Langford $3,804,360
7. R. Williams $3,661,976
8. G. Williams $2,617,800
9. Celtics 2021 pick $2,331,600
10. Bucks pick $2,142,240
11. Edwards $1,782,621
12. rookie minimum $1,028,851
13. rookie minimum $1,028,851
14. rookie minimum $1,028,851
15. rookie minimum $1,028,851

dead cap
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

total: $162,722,066

Luxury Tax Threshold: $132,627,000

The Celtics would be $30,095,066 over the tax line!

For a non-repeater, the tax breaks down like this:

150% for amounts up to $5 million over the threshold
175% from $5-10 million.
250% from $10-15 million.
325% from $15-20 million.
375% from $20-25 million.
425% from $25-30 million.
475% from $30-35 million.
and so on

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $451,563.5 = $85,451,563.5 in luxury tax!

Fwiw, the biggest amount ever paid in luxury tax is $61.6 million (by the Thunder in 2018/19).

tl;dr
In this scenario, the Celtics would have to pay ~$85 million in luxury tax!

Would HAVE to trade away Kemba as well.

However.

Kemba and Poirier to NYK for #8
Hayward, Edwards and #14 and #26 to Pelicans
Jrue, Reddick, #8 and #39 to Boston

This creates a 28 million dollar TPE
JJ is an expiring 13 million
Frank is an expiring 6.1 million

Sign Baynes
Offer some TPE plus a pick for Gallo.
Draft Okongwu at 8 (Hayes or Haliburton if he is gone.
Draft Theo Maledon at 30 (if Okongwu is gone and a PG is drafted at 8 draft Tillman, Oturu or Poku)
Draft BPA in Second round for fit/need

assuming a PG drafted at 8

Smart/Hayes/Frank
Jrue/Reddick/2nd rounder
Brown/Romeo/2nd rounder
Tatum/#30/GrantW
Baynes/Theis/Timelord

Assuming Okongwu is drafted at 8
Smart/Frank/Maledon
Jrue/Reddick/2nd rounder
Brown/Romeo/2nd Rounder
Tatum/Theis/GrantW
Baynes/Okongwu/Timelord

I don't think the trade exception really helps the team that much this year (except for getting under the tax).   The player the Celtics get for the trade exception will not be a good as Walker. 

[Darth_Yoda]

Boston out:  Kemba, Hayward, picks
Boston in: Turner, Jrue, McDermott or Redick

Does that make us better? More sustainable financially?

Not sold on the front court as I am not a huge fan of Turner. But I do think he would be better her than in Indiana.

And the defense of the lineup of

Jrue
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Turner

is  insane.

Its like the 7 seconds or less offense level game changer, or Warriors offense level game changing only with Defense.
The Key would be draft pick choices as the team would need to have some scorers off the bench that can barrage 3s.

I assume a deal would be Kemba and Lamb to the Pelicans
Hayward and #14 to Indiana
Turner, Jrue, Reddick to Boston (12 million in cap savings)

[Darth_Yoda]

A direct trade Jrue for Hayward works in Trade NBA:

It doesn't work tax-wise going forward.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that:

• We trade Hayward + #14 + #26 for Jrue (I believe tradeNBA is wrong and the Pels would have to send us a filler, but that's not the point here).
• The cap plateaus at $109,140,000 for 2 seasons, due to the impending recession.
• Tatum and Jrue re-sign with the C's in 2021 for the 30% max. It only takes one desperate team to make one desperate offer to Jrue. Even if it never happens, we should be making our calculations based on this scenario.
• Next year's pick ends up at #26 (just like this year).
• We let Theis walk in 2021.
• We fill the remaining roster spots with rookie minimum contracts (best case scenario regarding the tax situation).

payroll for 2021/22:

1. Kemba $36,016,200
2. Jrue $32,742,000 (=30% of the cap)
3. Tatum $32,742,000 (=30% of the cap)
4. Brown $25,794,643
5. Smart $13,839,285
6. Langford $3,804,360
7. R. Williams $3,661,976
8. G. Williams $2,617,800
9. Celtics 2021 pick $2,331,600
10. Bucks pick $2,142,240
11. Edwards $1,782,621
12. rookie minimum $1,028,851
13. rookie minimum $1,028,851
14. rookie minimum $1,028,851
15. rookie minimum $1,028,851

dead cap
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

total: $162,722,066

Luxury Tax Threshold: $132,627,000

The Celtics would be $30,095,066 over the tax line!

For a non-repeater, the tax breaks down like this:

150% for amounts up to $5 million over the threshold
175% from $5-10 million.
250% from $10-15 million.
325% from $15-20 million.
375% from $20-25 million.
425% from $25-30 million.
475% from $30-35 million.
and so on

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $451,563.5 = $85,451,563.5 in luxury tax!

Fwiw, the biggest amount ever paid in luxury tax is $61.6 million (by the Thunder in 2018/19).

tl;dr
In this scenario, the Celtics would have to pay ~$85 million in luxury tax!

Would HAVE to trade away Kemba as well.

However.

Kemba and Poirier to NYK for #8
Hayward, Edwards and #14 and #26 to Pelicans
Jrue, Reddick, #8 and #39 to Boston

This creates a 28 million dollar TPE
JJ is an expiring 13 million
Frank is an expiring 6.1 million

Sign Baynes
Offer some TPE plus a pick for Gallo.
Draft Okongwu at 8 (Hayes or Haliburton if he is gone.
Draft Theo Maledon at 30 (if Okongwu is gone and a PG is drafted at 8 draft Tillman, Oturu or Poku)
Draft BPA in Second round for fit/need

assuming a PG drafted at 8

Smart/Hayes/Frank
Jrue/Reddick/2nd rounder
Brown/Romeo/2nd rounder
Tatum/#30/GrantW
Baynes/Theis/Timelord

Assuming Okongwu is drafted at 8
Smart/Frank/Maledon
Jrue/Reddick/2nd rounder
Brown/Romeo/2nd Rounder
Tatum/Theis/GrantW
Baynes/Okongwu/Timelord

I don't think the trade exception really helps the team that much this year (except for getting under the tax).   The player the Celtics get for the trade exception will not be a good as Walker.

Idividually, no they would not be, but overall, I think the team would be better now, and better in the future.
For example that TPE could be Gallo, add that to the 1st team I laid out in the original post and that team is filthy.

Smart/Hayes/Frank
Jrue/Reddick/2nd rounder
Brown/Romeo/2nd rounder
Tatum/Gallo/GrantW
Baynes/Theis/Timelord

Hayes has the potential to be the top player in this draft.
Team would have the best defense in the NBA easily.
Team has defenders and smart players off the bench
Team has switchability
Team has lethal outside shooting with Reddick and Gallo off the bench.

[$Mike$]

Is there anyway without losing Smart, Tatum, Brown, and Langford to acquire Jrue Holiday and JJ Reddick from NO and Turner from Indiana for Kemba, Picks, and Hayward?  I like Hayward but if he wants out it would be great to get something for him. Kemba is a scorer, but injuries are concerning and was shown to be a defensive liability in the playoffs due to size. Thoughts? J. Holiday, Smart, Tatum, Brown, Turner with a bench of G Williams, JJ Reddick, R. Williams, R. Langford, D.Theis, and resign Semi O for cheap $..If D.Theis and/or  C. Edwards have can go for team value (shooter), so be it.

[PhoSita]

I'm on board with the

Jrue + Myles Turner to Boston
Hayward + Romeo to Indiana
Oladipo + picks to New Orleans

concept

[Darth_Yoda]

Is there anyway without losing Smart, Tatum, Brown, and Langford to acquire Jrue Holiday and JJ Reddick from NO and Turner from Indiana for Kemba, Picks, and Hayward?  I like Hayward but if he wants out it would be great to get something for him. Kemba is a scorer, but injuries are concerning and was shown to be a defensive liability in the playoffs due to size. Thoughts? J. Holiday, Smart, Tatum, Brown, Turner with a bench of G Williams, JJ Reddick, R. Williams, R. Langford, D.Theis, and resign Semi O for cheap $..If D.Theis and/or  C. Edwards have can go for team value (shooter), so be it.

Have to be Kemba and Lamb to Pelicans
Hayward and Edwards to Indiana
Jrue, Turner, Reddick to Boston

[PhoSita]

Jrue is more of a SG not a PG.

I assume if the Celts acquired him that would mean Hayward is the outgoing salary.

Kemba + Holiday as the starting backcourt with Smart off the bench is pretty darn good. 

Still need to address backup wing and big man depth, but I'd be for it.


Now if they could somehow get JJ Redick in the deal as well without giving up any of their main rotation pieces ....

He plays at the 2 cause the Pels have Lonzo.

Jrue is a terrific passer, plus he's just a passable shooter (35.3% from 3 this season, 35.4% for his career). Why on earth would you rather use him off the ball?

Because I don't think he's quick enough or quite a good enough playmaker to be the lead guy.  I think pairing him with Kemba and/or Smart makes a lot of sense.

[gouki88]

Not sure how we get him salary wise without giving up Kemba/Hayward/Smart. Giving up our 3 first rounders + one of those guys for Jrue is an overpay

[PhoSita]

Not sure how we get him salary wise without giving up Kemba/Hayward/Smart. Giving up our 3 first rounders + one of those guys for Jrue is an overpay

Hayward + Langford to Indiana

Oladipo + picks to New Orleans

Jrue + Turner to Boston



works in the trade machine


Yeah I know you said without giving up Hayward but let's be real all these rumors suggest that he's gone anyway if we don't trade him.

[Birdman]

Not sure how we get him salary wise without giving up Kemba/Hayward/Smart. Giving up our 3 first rounders + one of those guys for Jrue is



Hayward + Langford to Indiana

Oladipo + picks to New Orleans

Jrue + Turner to Boston



works in the trade machine


Yeah I know you said without giving up Hayward but let's be real all these rumors suggest that he's gone anyway if we don't trade him.

I absolutely love this trade!!! Best I seen so far..TP

[gouki88]

Not sure how we get him salary wise without giving up Kemba/Hayward/Smart. Giving up our 3 first rounders + one of those guys for Jrue is an overpay

Hayward + Langford to Indiana

Oladipo + picks to New Orleans

Jrue + Turner to Boston



works in the trade machine


Yeah I know you said without giving up Hayward but let's be real all these rumors suggest that he's gone anyway if we don't trade him.

I could get around that, if the picks were 26 & 30. I don’t even rate Turner, but I love Jrue. Draft Kira Lewis at 14, Udoka Azubuike at 47, sign Alec Burks with our MLE and we’re set!

Roll out in 2020-21 with:
Kemba Walker / Kira Lewis Jr / Tremont Waters
Jrue Holiday / Marcus Smart / Carsen Edwards
Jaylen Brown / Alec Burks / Semi Ojeleye
Jayson Tatum / Grant Williams / Robert Williams
Myles Turner / Daniel Theis / Udoka Azubuike

[RPGenerate]

Not sure how we get him salary wise without giving up Kemba/Hayward/Smart. Giving up our 3 first rounders + one of those guys for Jrue is an overpay

Hayward + Langford to Indiana

Oladipo + picks to New Orleans

Jrue + Turner to Boston



works in the trade machine


Yeah I know you said without giving up Hayward but let's be real all these rumors suggest that he's gone anyway if we don't trade him.

Ah yes, because we should trust a couple of unproven rumors from untrustworthy sources. If we do this trade, we should do it because Ainge thinks it's a fair value deal, not because of rumors.