Jrue Holiday to C's Rumor

[BMark]

A direct trade Jrue for Hayward works in Trade NBA:

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Could a deal that sent Hayward to Pacers, Turner to NO and Holiday to Boston (plus picks moving around to different teams) work?

I like that trade a lot for both teams. Obviously, it'd be nice to get a big man to help out, but replacing Holliday with Hayward (if he really does want out) would be a solid move for the Cs.

[PAOBoston]

Realistically, only options that really make sense here are Hayward or Walker. That being said, think there would have to be more involved if Cs are giving up all their draft picks too.

Initially I was thinking that Hayward would be the guy out in this scenario but Hayward plus all the picks for just Holiday doesn’t make a ton of sense really. Could it be they offering all the picks to take on Kemba? Maybe Cs got scared by his knees/limitations in the playoffs?

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Realistically, only options that really make sense here are Hayward or Walker. That being said, think there would have to be more involved if Cs are giving up all their draft picks too.

Initially I was thinking that Hayward would be the guy out in this scenario but Hayward plus all the picks for just Holiday doesn’t make a ton of sense really. Could it be they offering all the picks to take on Kemba? Maybe Cs got scared by his knees/limitations in the playoffs?

I think you could definitely argue that Holliday could conceivably replace Smart and be an upgrade. I know that's hard for many to stomach, but it'd likely be true.

[wdleehi]

Could a deal that sent Hayward to Pacers, Turner to NO and Holiday to Boston (plus picks moving around to different teams) work?

It could if Indy also sent Jeremy Lamb to NOP, I think.

This works, too:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y24oqdjx

Nice.

How about this with the Pacers throwing in a 1st round pick to allow the Celtics to save one of their own.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y6p2pkuc

[Jvalin]

Jrue is more of a SG not a PG.

I assume if the Celts acquired him that would mean Hayward is the outgoing salary.

Kemba + Holiday as the starting backcourt with Smart off the bench is pretty darn good. 

Still need to address backup wing and big man depth, but I'd be for it.


Now if they could somehow get JJ Redick in the deal as well without giving up any of their main rotation pieces ....

He plays at the 2 cause the Pels have Lonzo.

Jrue is a terrific passer, plus he's just a passable shooter (35.3% from 3 this season, 35.4% for his career). Why on earth would you rather use him off the ball?

[keevsnick]

This rumor, as constructed, doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me. The Celtics want to package picks to get a better lottery pick and flip it for Jrue that's fine, but the Celtics salary structure means you also have to include one of Kemba, Hayward, Smart to make the money work. If its just Smart+Kanter the team gets very expensive. If It's Kemba or Hayward then how much sense does it make to flip one of them AND picks for a guy with only one year left on his deal?

Flipping Hayward for Jrue might make sense if Jrue wer signed longer, flipping Kemba might make sense if they hadn't just signed him. For this to happen I think more players/team have to be involved and the Celtics have to get back more than Jrue.

Unless its Hayward to a third team and Jrue basically straight up for him.

[PAOBoston]

This rumor, as constructed, doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me. The Celtics want to package picks to get a better lottery pick and flip it for Jrue that's fine, but the Celtics salary structure means you also have to include one of Kemba, Hayward, Smart to make the money work. If its just Smart+Kanter the team gets very expensive. If It's Kemba or Hayward then how much sense does it make to flip one of them AND picks for a guy with only one year left on his deal?

Flipping Hayward for Jrue might make sense if Jrue wer signed longer, flipping Kemba might make sense if they hadn't just signed him. For this to happen I think more players/team have to be involved and the Celtics have to get back more than Jrue.

Unless its Hayward to a third team and Jrue basically straight up for him.

This is sort of wheee I’m at with it as well. Think probably w/ATL.

[tazzmaniac]

Jrue is more of a SG not a PG.

I assume if the Celts acquired him that would mean Hayward is the outgoing salary.

Kemba + Holiday as the starting backcourt with Smart off the bench is pretty darn good. 

Still need to address backup wing and big man depth, but I'd be for it.


Now if they could somehow get JJ Redick in the deal as well without giving up any of their main rotation pieces ....

I agree.  Kemba + Holiday would be one of the best starting backcourts.  A few years ago, some people on here said Rondo + Holiday wouldn't work.  It was actually rather good especially in the playoffs when they outplayed Lilliard and McCollom.

Definitely would want to pickup Redick in the deal if possible.  Smart is really superfluous if we have Holiday.  But Smart, Holiday, Brown, Tatum would make offensive guards and wings call in sick when they played us. 

[Darth_Yoda]

Jrue is more of a SG not a PG.

I assume if the Celts acquired him that would mean Hayward is the outgoing salary.

Kemba + Holiday as the starting backcourt with Smart off the bench is pretty darn good. 

Still need to address backup wing and big man depth, but I'd be for it.


Now if they could somehow get JJ Redick in the deal as well without giving up any of their main rotation pieces ....

I agree.  Kemba + Holiday would be one of the best starting backcourts.  A few years ago, some people on here said Rondo + Holiday wouldn't work.  It was actually rather good especially in the playoffs when they outplayed Lilliard and McCollom.

Definitely would want to pickup Redick in the deal if possible.  Smart is really superfluous if we have Holiday.  But Smart, Holiday, Brown, Tatum would make offensive guards and wings call in sick when they played us.

Jrue is a bit more of a shooting guard. But he and Marcus should easily combine to make point guard a non position on the team, should the team look to trade Kemba for Jrue.

Smart
Jrue
Brown
Tatum

that works as there is more than enough playmaking in the lineup. Jrue, Smart and Tatum are all capable playmakers.

Team would actually work really really well with someone like Horford or Bam or Gasol with their passing ability as a center.

[Jvalin]

A direct trade Jrue for Hayward works in Trade NBA:

It doesn't work tax-wise going forward.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that:

• We trade Hayward + #14 + #26 to the Pels for Jrue. The more picks we include, the easier it becomes to afford the tax going forward. For the record, I believe tradeNBA is wrong and the Pels would have to send us a filler, but that's not the point here.
• The cap plateaus at $109,140,000 for 2 seasons, due to the impending recession.
• Tatum and Jrue re-sign with the C's in 2021 for the 30% max. It only takes one desperate team to make one desperate offer to Jrue. Even if it never happens, we should be making our calculations based on this scenario.
• Next year's pick ends up at #26 (just like this year).
• We let Theis walk in 2021.
• We fill the remaining roster spots with rookie minimum contracts (best case scenario regarding the tax situation).

payroll for 2021/22:

1. Kemba $36,016,200
2. Jrue $32,742,000 (=30% of the cap)
3. Tatum $32,742,000 (=30% of the cap)
4. Brown $25,794,643
5. Smart $13,839,285
6. Langford $3,804,360
7. R. Williams $3,661,976
8. G. Williams $2,617,800
9. Celtics 2021 pick $2,331,600
10. Bucks pick $2,142,240
11. Edwards $1,782,621
12. rookie minimum $925,258
13. rookie minimum $925,258
14. rookie minimum $925,258
15. rookie minimum $925,258

dead cap
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

total: $162,307,694

Luxury Tax Threshold: $132,627,000

The Celtics would be $29,680,694 over the tax line!

For a non-repeater, the tax breaks down like this:

150% for amounts up to $5 million over the threshold
175% from $5-10 million.
250% from $10-15 million.
325% from $15-20 million.
375% from $20-25 million.
425% from $25-30 million.
and so on

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $19,892,949.5 = $83,642,949.5 in luxury tax!

Fwiw, the biggest amount ever paid in luxury tax is $61.6 million (by the Thunder in 2018/19).

tl;dr
In this scenario, the Celtics would have to pay ~$83 million in luxury tax!

[Birdman]

3 team trade

Boston gets Jru Holiday & TJ Leaf

Indy gets Gordon Hayward

Pelicans get Victor Oladipo & Jeremy Lamb

Works in trade machine..

[tazzmaniac]

A direct trade Jrue for Hayward works in Trade NBA:

It doesn't work tax-wise going forward.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that:

• We trade Hayward + #14 + #26 to the Pels for Jrue. The more picks we include, the easier it becomes to afford the tax going forward. For the record, I believe tradeNBA is wrong and the Pels would have to send us a filler, but that's not the point here.
• The cap plateaus at $109,140,000 for 2 seasons, due to the impending recession.
• Tatum and Jrue re-sign with the C's in 2021 for the 30% max. It only takes one desperate team to make one desperate offer to Jrue. Even if it never happens, we should be making our calculations based on this scenario.
• Next year's pick ends up at #26 (just like this year).
• We let Theis walk in 2021.
• We fill the remaining roster spots with rookie minimum contracts (best case scenario regarding the tax situation).

payroll for 2021/22:

1. Kemba $36,016,200
2. Jrue $32,742,000 (=30% of the cap)
3. Tatum $32,742,000 (=30% of the cap)
4. Brown $25,794,643
5. Smart $13,839,285
6. Langford $3,804,360
7. R. Williams $3,661,976
8. G. Williams $2,617,800
9. Celtics 2021 pick $2,331,600
10. Bucks pick $2,142,240
11. Edwards $1,782,621
12. rookie minimum $1,028,851
13. rookie minimum $1,028,851
14. rookie minimum $1,028,851
15. rookie minimum $1,028,851

dead cap
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,857

total: $162,722,066

Luxury Tax Threshold: $132,627,000

The Celtics would be $30,095,066 over the tax line!

For a non-repeater, the tax breaks down like this:

150% for amounts up to $5 million over the threshold
175% from $5-10 million.
250% from $10-15 million.
325% from $15-20 million.
375% from $20-25 million.
425% from $25-30 million.
475% from $30-35 million.
and so on

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $451,563.5 = $85,451,563.5 in luxury tax!

Fwiw, the biggest amount ever paid in luxury tax is $61.6 million (by the Thunder in 2018/19).

tl;dr
In this scenario, the Celtics would have to pay ~$85 million in luxury tax!

31 year old Holiday isn't getting a 30% Max offer.  It'll be closer to 25%.  The same tax issue exists with re-signing Hayward. 

[wdleehi]

3 team trade

Boston gets Jru Holiday & TJ Leaf

Indy gets Gordon Hayward

Pelicans get Victor Oladipo & Jeremy Lamb

Works in trade machine..

I not so sure they trade Holiday for a one year rental unless there is a good pick attached.

[Birdman]

3 team trade

Boston gets Jru Holiday & TJ Leaf

Indy gets Gordon Hayward

Pelicans get Victor Oladipo & Jeremy Lamb

Works in trade machine..

I not so sure they trade Holiday for a one year rental unless there is a good pick attached.

Very true.. so they can throw some picks in somewhere