Author Topic: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space  (Read 8735 times)

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Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #90 on: June 20, 2019, 03:11:10 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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Both Rubio and Rozier are career 38% shooters, but it's fair to say that Terry has much more potential upside than Ricky even though there is only a 3 year difference between them. I'm hardly certain that either is the answer at the point but I am willing to roll the dice on Rozier if no other better alternative presents itself.

The difference is that Rubio is a willing defender and facilitator while Rozier is useless when his shot isn't falling

I'm taking Rubio here anyday

Agree.  Rubio does everything else better.  It’s not like Rozier has a ton of upside left from what he has shown as a starter.  With Horford gone we need another good facilitator on offense to go along with Hayward.

In crunch time if you want another scorer put king of the 4th IT in there after we sign him too. Ha
If the goal is to move forward with Jaylen & Tatum as your key guys, it makes perfect sense to have a pass first PG who will actually get them the ball - as opposed to one who walks the ball up, eats 10 seconds off the shot clock and then looks for his own shot (which he usually misses).

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #91 on: June 20, 2019, 03:13:49 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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Both Rubio and Rozier are career 38% shooters, but it's fair to say that Terry has much more potential upside than Ricky even though there is only a 3 year difference between them. I'm hardly certain that either is the answer at the point but I am willing to roll the dice on Rozier if no other better alternative presents itself.

The difference is that Rubio is a willing defender and facilitator while Rozier is useless when his shot isn't falling

I'm taking Rubio here anyday

Agree.  Rubio does everything else better.  It’s not like Rozier has a ton of upside left from what he has shown as a starter.  With Horford gone we need another good facilitator on offense to go along with Hayward.

In crunch time if you want another scorer put king of the 4th IT in there after we sign him too. Ha
If the goal is to move forward with Jaylen & Tatum as your key guys, it makes perfect sense to have a pass first PG who will actually get them the ball - as opposed to one who walks the ball up, eats 10 seconds off the shot clock and then looks for his own shot (which he usually misses).

The C's need shooters.  Rubio is not a shooter.  Having a PG who can shoot and create opens up so much for the Jays.  If they don't get a PG who can shoot and pass like a Conley, Brogdon, etc it will force the Jays to play so much ISO ball.  The C's need a playmaker who can shoot. 

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #92 on: June 20, 2019, 03:16:10 PM »

Offline Silky

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Both Rubio and Rozier are career 38% shooters, but it's fair to say that Terry has much more potential upside than Ricky even though there is only a 3 year difference between them. I'm hardly certain that either is the answer at the point but I am willing to roll the dice on Rozier if no other better alternative presents itself.

The difference is that Rubio is a willing defender and facilitator while Rozier is useless when his shot isn't falling

I'm taking Rubio here anyday

Agree.  Rubio does everything else better.  It’s not like Rozier has a ton of upside left from what he has shown as a starter.  With Horford gone we need another good facilitator on offense to go along with Hayward.

In crunch time if you want another scorer put king of the 4th IT in there after we sign him too. Ha
If the goal is to move forward with Jaylen & Tatum as your key guys, it makes perfect sense to have a pass first PG who will actually get them the ball - as opposed to one who walks the ball up, eats 10 seconds off the shot clock and then looks for his own shot (which he usually misses).

The C's need shooters.  Rubio is not a shooter.  Having a PG who can shoot and create opens up so much for the Jays.  If they don't get a PG who can shoot and pass like a Conley, Brogdon, etc it will force the Jays to play so much ISO ball.  The C's need a playmaker who can shoot.

that is not a rare commodity.

There are those players in the draft (Naw, Carsen Edwards)
There are a fair few on the market as well.

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #93 on: June 20, 2019, 03:18:58 PM »

Offline Irish Stew

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Both Rubio and Rozier are career 38% shooters, but it's fair to say that Terry has much more potential upside than Ricky even though there is only a 3 year difference between them. I'm hardly certain that either is the answer at the point but I am willing to roll the dice on Rozier if no other better alternative presents itself.

The difference is that Rubio is a willing defender and facilitator while Rozier is useless when his shot isn't falling

I'm taking Rubio here anyday

Agree.  Rubio does everything else better.  It’s not like Rozier has a ton of upside left from what he has shown as a starter.  With Horford gone we need another good facilitator on offense to go along with Hayward.

In crunch time if you want another scorer put king of the 4th IT in there after we sign him too. Ha

It should be noted that the Jazz were eager to move on from Rubio who made $15 million last season to Mike Conley who will be 32 before the start of the 2019-2020 season and will make $32 million this year and $34 million the following year.

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #94 on: June 20, 2019, 03:32:34 PM »

Offline byennie

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Both Rubio and Rozier are career 38% shooters, but it's fair to say that Terry has much more potential upside than Ricky even though there is only a 3 year difference between them. I'm hardly certain that either is the answer at the point but I am willing to roll the dice on Rozier if no other better alternative presents itself.

The difference is that Rubio is a willing defender and facilitator while Rozier is useless when his shot isn't falling

I'm taking Rubio here anyday

Agree.  Rubio does everything else better.  It’s not like Rozier has a ton of upside left from what he has shown as a starter.  With Horford gone we need another good facilitator on offense to go along with Hayward.

In crunch time if you want another scorer put king of the 4th IT in there after we sign him too. Ha

It should be noted that the Jazz were eager to move on from Rubio who made $15 million last season to Mike Conley who will be 32 before the start of the 2019-2020 season and will make $32 million this year and $34 million the following year.

True, but that seems pretty straightforward. Conley is an All-Star level player and they want to contend. Doesn't mean Rubio can't be a good player somewhere else.

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #95 on: June 20, 2019, 03:50:04 PM »

Offline JumpingJudkins

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I don't understand the people who refer to Vucevic as "mediocre." He's a center who averaged 21/12 with 3.8 ast last year, and even began to make threes at an acceptable (36%) rate. Not great defensively, but does not seem to be a liabilty any more.

He would be an improvement on Al in several ways (not defensively).

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #96 on: June 20, 2019, 03:54:29 PM »

Offline Green-18

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I don't understand the people who refer to Vucevic as "mediocre." He's a center who averaged 21/12 with 3.8 ast last year, and even began to make threes at an acceptable (36%) rate. Not great defensively, but does not seem to be a liabilty any more.

He would be an improvement on Al in several ways (not defensively).

TP, couldn't agree more.  He's definitely not a liability on defense, plus his excellent rebounding should be able to make up for an inability to guard multiple positions.  Realistically, Brad would need to make some adjustments to the defense scheme.  It should be able to work as long as we have strong perimeter defenders (Smart and Brown).  People are sleeping on Vucevic because he's not a sexy name. 

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #97 on: June 20, 2019, 03:56:34 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I don't understand the people who refer to Vucevic as "mediocre." He's a center who averaged 21/12 with 3.8 ast last year, and even began to make threes at an acceptable (36%) rate. Not great defensively, but does not seem to be a liabilty any more.

He would be an improvement on Al in several ways (not defensively).
You can be a great offensive player but still just a mediocre overall player if your defense gives back most of what you contributed to on the offensive end.

I am not say Vucevic is mediocre, I think he is a very good center, overall, but I am not someone who loves bigs who are bad defenders, so I wouldn't be committing huge money for him on a 4 year deal.

I would much rather use the cap space to absorb a Steven Adams for two years. Great defender and rebounder that won't demand shots that should be taken by Hayward, Brown and Tatum so they can develop their games. And, the contract ends with Hayward's contract, possibly clearing space for a free agent.

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #98 on: June 20, 2019, 04:17:35 PM »

Offline Muzzy66

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Both Rubio and Rozier are career 38% shooters, but it's fair to say that Terry has much more potential upside than Ricky even though there is only a 3 year difference between them. I'm hardly certain that either is the answer at the point but I am willing to roll the dice on Rozier if no other better alternative presents itself.

The difference is that Rubio is a willing defender and facilitator while Rozier is useless when his shot isn't falling

I'm taking Rubio here anyday

Agree.  Rubio does everything else better.  It’s not like Rozier has a ton of upside left from what he has shown as a starter.  With Horford gone we need another good facilitator on offense to go along with Hayward.

In crunch time if you want another scorer put king of the 4th IT in there after we sign him too. Ha

It should be noted that the Jazz were eager to move on from Rubio who made $15 million last season to Mike Conley who will be 32 before the start of the 2019-2020 season and will make $32 million this year and $34 million the following year.

True, but that seems pretty straightforward. Conley is an All-Star level player and they want to contend. Doesn't mean Rubio can't be a good player somewhere else.

Rubio is the definition of mediocre.

Hes getting old and he can't shoot.  And people on this board continue to hate on Rozier - a guy who has proven he's a starting calibre PG when he is given sufficient minutes / role.

How people can criticise his defense i don't know.  Hes had consistently solid defensive stats the past couple of years and consistently plays hard on both ends of the floor.

Hes also one of the best rebounding PGs I've personally ever seen play, which iys off huge value.

If you want to go for a Pass first pg who cant shoot then id much rather go after Rondo for the very min or MLE rather then  waste money on a mediocre guy like rubio, whos seemingly never proven especislly valuable anywhere he's been.

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #99 on: June 20, 2019, 04:29:33 PM »

Offline JBcat

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I don't understand the people who refer to Vucevic as "mediocre." He's a center who averaged 21/12 with 3.8 ast last year, and even began to make threes at an acceptable (36%) rate. Not great defensively, but does not seem to be a liabilty any more.

He would be an improvement on Al in several ways (not defensively).
You can be a great offensive player but still just a mediocre overall player if your defense gives back most of what you contributed to on the offensive end.

I am not say Vucevic is mediocre, I think he is a very good center, overall, but I am not someone who loves bigs who are bad defenders, so I wouldn't be committing huge money for him on a 4 year deal.

I would much rather use the cap space to absorb a Steven Adams for two years. Great defender and rebounder that won't demand shots that should be taken by Hayward, Brown and Tatum so they can develop their games. And, the contract ends with Hayward's contract, possibly clearing space for a free agent.

Same here, and if we are going to have Hayward, Brown, and Tatum in the game together more often I’d rather have the bigger better defensive player anchoring it.

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #100 on: June 20, 2019, 04:31:48 PM »

Offline byennie

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Both Rubio and Rozier are career 38% shooters, but it's fair to say that Terry has much more potential upside than Ricky even though there is only a 3 year difference between them. I'm hardly certain that either is the answer at the point but I am willing to roll the dice on Rozier if no other better alternative presents itself.

The difference is that Rubio is a willing defender and facilitator while Rozier is useless when his shot isn't falling

I'm taking Rubio here anyday

Agree.  Rubio does everything else better.  It’s not like Rozier has a ton of upside left from what he has shown as a starter.  With Horford gone we need another good facilitator on offense to go along with Hayward.

In crunch time if you want another scorer put king of the 4th IT in there after we sign him too. Ha

It should be noted that the Jazz were eager to move on from Rubio who made $15 million last season to Mike Conley who will be 32 before the start of the 2019-2020 season and will make $32 million this year and $34 million the following year.

True, but that seems pretty straightforward. Conley is an All-Star level player and they want to contend. Doesn't mean Rubio can't be a good player somewhere else.

Rubio is the definition of mediocre.

Hes getting old and he can't shoot.  And people on this board continue to hate on Rozier - a guy who has proven he's a starting calibre PG when he is given sufficient minutes / role.

How people can criticise his defense i don't know.  Hes had consistently solid defensive stats the past couple of years and consistently plays hard on both ends of the floor.

Hes also one of the best rebounding PGs I've personally ever seen play, which iys off huge value.

If you want to go for a Pass first pg who cant shoot then id much rather go after Rondo for the very min or MLE rather then  waste money on a mediocre guy like rubio, whos seemingly never proven especislly valuable anywhere he's been.

Depends on the role and the price, of course, but I'd take Rubio 10x over Rondo at this point in their careers. Rubio is 5 years younger, is not a locker room distraction, is an above-average defender, and is at least a more efficient scorer by getting to the line and shooting 85% there. 13 points on 11 shots versus 9 and 9. Passing and rebounding they're both high-end for PGs.

Neither is an exciting option as your starting point guard, but Rubio could definitely fill a role if the price tag isn't too high (which I don't think it will be).

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #101 on: June 20, 2019, 04:40:45 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I don't like the idea of Baynes being shopped. Guess it will depend on how things work out.

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #102 on: June 20, 2019, 05:43:39 PM »

Offline ozgod

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I don't like the idea of Baynes being shopped. Guess it will depend on how things work out.

Kyrie was the big fish expected to go, but Al leaving was really when the whole thing feels like it's starting to unravel and how looks like they're shopping a lot of players. It could all be media hype but it sounds like we're looking at something closer to a rebuild than a tweaking.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #103 on: June 20, 2019, 05:49:47 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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I don't like the idea of Baynes being shopped. Guess it will depend on how things work out.
He really doesn't serve a purpose on a rebuilding team.  On the other hand, if he goes I can see us getting routinely destroyed by Giannis and Embid and any other big with even a little bit of offensive talent. 

Brad has done such a wonderful job recently keeping the opposition's star players from going off.  Take away Horford and Baynes........ugh :-[

Re: Celtics Offering Baynes for Cap Space
« Reply #104 on: June 20, 2019, 10:20:59 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I'll miss you Baynes. Thanks for everything!  :)  :'(
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller