The once dominant bench.

[The Oracle]

  What was once one of the most dominant benches in the league has become mediocre at best over the last dozen or so games.  The loss of Marcus Smart has definitely hurt but is by no means the major issue.  The rookies have been nothing short of terrible filling the minutes left behind in Smart's absence.  But the single biggest factor has been Brad's insistence on playing David Lee.  I don't know if they made some sort of deal with the devil and are forced to play him or if they are just trying to showcase him in hopes of finding a sucker.  Either way it has been a disaster on both ends of the floor.  He is exactly the guy you would never want to pair with K.O. and yet Brad is forcing that pairing down the teams throat.  It has forced Jerebko to play out of position at SF where he has struggled.  Turner & Isaiah need space in the paint to be able to be effective and there just isn't much to be had with Lee allowing the other teams shot blocker to constantly patrol the paint.

  The solution is obvious and the apparent lack of willingness to act on it I find very telling.  There are a few reasons why the Celtics may be choosing to continue on with this and none of them other than to showcase and trade Lee make much sense.  The problem is you aren't going to fool any teams into believing he is anything other than a lane clogger on offense, a weak defender on defense, while having a very large salary making him only of value in a very large trade as salary ballast.  So why are they playing him?  I just don't see a trade happening and am beginning to believe he will be here all year as this years Brandon Bass.  A player that when on the floor the team consistently performs worse and yet he will continue to eat minutes for whatever nefarious reason!   

[furball]

While I agree with you that Lee hasn't been the best addition and he does not mesh well with Olynyk, the reason the Celtic's had the best bench in the league was because their leading scored came off the bench.  Thomas was scoring 20 points a night and was the focus of the other teams defense.  Guys were able to play off of him.  And, you know, he was putting in 20 a night. 

[PhoSita]

With Smart out and IT in the starting lineup, we're left playing bench units that feature virtually nobody who can hit reliably take and make an open shot.

Devolves into guys just watching Turner or Lee do stuff.

[The Oracle]

While I agree with you that Lee hasn't been the best addition and he does not mesh well with Olynyk, the reason the Celtic's had the best bench in the league was because their leading scored came off the bench.  Thomas was scoring 20 points a night and was the focus of the other teams defense.  Guys were able to play off of him.  And, you know, he was putting in 20 a night. 

While I agree that I.T.'s scoring is a large contributing factor to the bench's success both last year and so far this year there is much more to it than that.  Over the final 30 games last year the C's were 20-10.  I.T. missed 9 of those games in which the C's were 6-3.  After those 9 games when I.T. returned from injury he was wholly ineffective for the next 5 games in which the C's went 3-2.  Basically with a healthy I.T. they went 11-5 and without or with an ineffective I.T. they were 9-5.  Those games were won with a bench that was one of if not the best defensive bench in the league. 
  The same goes for this year.  Early in the year the bench was dominant defensively and has since gotten much worse. (K.O., Jerebko and Turner were among the league leaders in def. rat.)   This is partially do to the rookies getting playing time but Lee playing as the de facto center has ruined them and the ratings have skyrocketed.

[BudweiserCeltic]

It's kinda interesting that everyone is trying to blame Lee for our bench struggles, yet he's been our most consistent player off the bench.

I think the complaint is incredibly misplaced.

[34truth]

It's kinda interesting that everyone is trying to blame Lee for our bench struggles, yet he's been our most consistent player off the bench.

I think the complaint is incredibly misplaced.

[littleteapot]

Isaiah Thomas on bench >> Dominant Bench
Isaiah Thomas in starting lineup >> Above average bench

[Celtics4ever]

Our bench was dominant for one reason, he now starts.  With IT gone, we do not have an elite bench.

[The Oracle]

It's kinda interesting that everyone is trying to blame Lee for our bench struggles, yet he's been our most consistent player off the bench.

I think the complaint is incredibly misplaced.

You are correct and everyone else including every ounce of analytical evidence are wrong of course.  His last 128 min. he is -32 and has a def. rat. of 111.0.  He has made 23-54 shots despite the vast majority being very close shots and layups.  He can't defend anything to save his life away from the hoop.  A super consistent last 7 games of 4, 2, 12, 10, 10, 8 and 6 points on poor shooting and getting to the FT line a grand total of 6 times.  He's been awesome LOL.

[BudweiserCeltic]

It's kinda interesting that everyone is trying to blame Lee for our bench struggles, yet he's been our most consistent player off the bench.

I think the complaint is incredibly misplaced.

You are correct and everyone else including every ounce of analytical evidence are wrong of course.  His last 128 min. he is -32 and has a def. rat. of 111.0.  He has made 23-54 shots despite the vast majority being very close shots and layups.  He can't defend anything to save his life away from the hoop.  A super consistent last 7 games of 4, 2, 12, 10, 10, 8 and 6 points on poor shooting and getting to the FT line a grand total of 6 times.  He's been awesome LOL.

I'm not saying he's been awesome, or dismissing some of his poor defensive performances... but chucking all that ails on him is a head scratcher.

Also he plays exclusively with bench players for the most part, he isn't like Olynyk or Turner who get plenty of turns with a good dosage of starting players. Heck even Jerebko seems to find himself playing alongside starters more than Lee by my observations it seems.

It dismisses that even though he's been on a fairly hot stretch recently, Olynyk went through a very putrid stretch himself. Turner is lacking as well.

The point wasn't to make it seem as Lee was awesome, but to illustrate that given that David Lee has been our most consistent performer off the bench it's a bit telling of how ineffective our bench has been overall, rather than the cause of it. To say nothing of how much he's playing alonside rookies and D-League players... but hey, there's always more room to start another "Everyone is happy with James Young thread".

His games in December have been up and down... it happens. Everyone has gone through their respective slumps this season even more so from players who get inconsistent minutes off the bench. It goes with the territory.

For the season Jerebko has had a much worse offensive rating and a worse defensive rating, believe it or not... yet he's blameless here? Of course we can't have that... Jerebko is playing poorly BECAUSE of Lee. I get it, I get it.

Like it or not, Lee has been our most consistent performer off the bench. Olynyk has been coming around lately. LATELY, but until that occurred it was Lee carrying the bench with all his flaws.

But in the end the main reason for the struggles is that we don't have the perimeter defense we used to have with Smart injured, and more important than that, our best player is no longer coming off the bench.

But the point is that Lee through much of the season (not lately, though he's had his good games) Lee been a useful player to have off the bench and there's plenty of players struggling or have struggled through the season to start pointing the finger at him as the cause. Some of the players need to own up to their responsibilities.

[Who]

I'd like to see Zeller get a run of games as backup center instead of Lee.

[Who]

I think the bench has struggled lately because Smart is injured.

Boston has three rotation quality guards = Smart, Bradley and Isaiah.

Take any one of those 3 guys out of the equation and Boston has to rely and unproven inconsistent youngsters like Rozier, RJ Hunter or James Young. It is a big drop-off and weakens the bench considerably.

I think that is the main reason Boston's bench has struggled lately. It was working well when Smart and Bradley were healthy and Bradley was coming off the bench whilst Isaiah started. So I don't think it is all about Isaiah moving into the starting unit. Instead, I think it is due to the loss of one of their three rotation caliber guards and being forced to play inconsistent rookies instead.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'd like to see Zeller get a run of games as backup center instead of Lee.

I'm higher than most on the potential role for Lee off the bench, but in the end I'm with you. Outside of that Stevens has to make a better effort maximizing our bigs pairs. One diminish Olynyk and Lee's time together. Run Olynyk more with Johnson,  and give Lee more run with Sullinger.

[DesertDweller]

Young has gotten the minutes but is still not producing. he's forcing shots even when driving to the basket.
If they get back on track a win tonight over Atlanta could very well spark a Boston 9 game win streak!!!

[Celtics4ever]

Quote
I'd like to see Zeller get a run of games as backup center instead of Lee.

That might hurt the showcasing of Lee who is a 15M expiring.  So basketball wise it makes sense, Lee has been horrible but it may hurt the master plan.