Hayward has definitively outplayed Morris in February - Implications?

[tonydelk]

If you're considering the starting lineup, I'm not sure that the comparison is all that relevant - only because Morris is more of a 3/4 where Hayward is a 2/3.  So if anything Smart might be the one to move to the bench - Kyrie at the 1, Hayward at the 2. 

But that aside, the big implication - and we're starting to see it - is more minutes for Hayward.  Last night was the 2nd of a back to back and he played 34. Granted, no Kyrie, but Hayward is getting more minutes - and if he keeps this up - a lot more minutes than he'd been getting.

TP for both of your points Kuberski.  My feelings exactly.

I think it's time for Smart to go back to the bench.  Start Gordon and keep Mook in the starting linkeup.  Big lineup.  Tough lineup.  To be honest I'm ok with Gordon getting more minutes at the expense of Rozier.  Smart and Morris brought stability while Brown and Hayward worked through their injuries.  Now that they are playing at a high level I think Smart needs to go to the bench while Jaylen subs in early off the bench. 

[tstorey_97]

Healthy lineup:

The point is, two starters "don't need" the ball. I insist that for this team to function, that Smart and Baynes start.

Smart
Baynes

Iriving
Horford
Tatum

The Irving Horford Tatum troika can do their thing offensively.

Morris is and always has been a 6th or 7th and his size is less of a liability with the bench.

Hayward
Morris
Brown
Rozier

Is clearly too many "need the ball" players, but, Hayward will get more minutes and, when with the bench, can distribute to this sterling group of ball stoppers.

Each coin has two sides. This bench looks like they'll combine for about 6 assists a game, but, they will be one of the top 5 benches in the NBA. With Hayward, not yet, but, on his way to being a post all star break 6th man candidate.Hayward, Brown, Rozier and Theis have been effective in February, not perfect, but, they have found something and lord knows they've needed to.

I agree with discussions that call for an 8 man rotation which, I suppose puts Rozier on the bench, but, Irving, Baynes just miss too many games and Brown and Morris are playing far too well.

To the Question, Hayward helps the team as the sixth man. He has found his first step quickness, he is driving, he is deferring far fewer open looks and his team mates are playing better with him on the floor...far better. He is now a threat as he should be. On the bench he has the best vision and those guys need it.

I vote Morris onto the bench WITH Hayward...leaving Marcus Curry and Baynes to patrol on defense with Irving and his bag of tricks, Tatum the "kid" with his new found ability to get to the line and a rejuvenated Horford screaming at refs, getting T'd up and pounding his chest.

Hayward just might be the prototypical Celtics 6th man.


 

[gpap]

How about we just enjoy the players on our team, rather than talking about who's outplaying who.

[Humble G]

Healthy lineup:

The point is, two starters "don't need" the ball. I insist that for this team to function, that Smart and Baynes start.

Smart
Baynes

Iriving
Horford
Tatum

The Irving Horford Tatum troika can do their thing offensively.

Morris is and always has been a 6th or 7th and his size is less of a liability with the bench.

Hayward
Morris
Brown
Rozier

Is clearly too many "need the ball" players, but, Hayward will get more minutes and, when with the bench, can distribute to this sterling group of ball stoppers.

Each coin has two sides. This bench looks like they'll combine for about 6 assists a game, but, they will be one of the top 5 benches in the NBA. With Hayward, not yet, but, on his way to being a post all star break 6th man candidate.Hayward, Brown, Rozier and Theis have been effective in February, not perfect, but, they have found something and lord knows they've needed to.

I agree with discussions that call for an 8 man rotation which, I suppose puts Rozier on the bench, but, Irving, Baynes just miss too many games and Brown and Morris are playing far too well.

To the Question, Hayward helps the team as the sixth man. He has found his first step quickness, he is driving, he is deferring far fewer open looks and his team mates are playing better with him on the floor...far better. He is now a threat as he should be. On the bench he has the best vision and those guys need it.

I vote Morris onto the bench WITH Hayward...leaving Marcus Curry and Baynes to patrol on defense with Irving and his bag of tricks, Tatum the "kid" with his new found ability to get to the line and a rejuvenated Horford screaming at refs, getting T'd up and pounding his chest.

Hayward just might be the prototypical Celtics 6th man.

Baynes and Horford are the best Post defenders Boston has but in most games I don't want them out there at the same time.

Take the philly game... I want Horford on Embiid. But then whats the point of Baynes being out there? IMO he is not that great at guarding the 4 spot thus he is not needed in the lineup unless Horford is out or needs a breather.  In most games I believe Baynes would be best used as a backup for Al and we could have used him in Philly and Detroit in that role. Theis is great but cannot defend the bigger post players.

Hayward was a 2/3 player but I feel he is shifting to 3/4. So  I would like to go back to the opening lineup of Irving/Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Horford. Then use Smart, Mook, Theis and Baynes to sub in.....leave rozier with  Ojeleye for extreme cases.

[bknova]

I would start him, and decrease Rozier's minutes. I like Wanamaker alongside JB a lot more than Rozier. Wanamaker and Smart help him get the early touches he needs.

Nah.  I think Hayward in the 2nd unit is working fine.  He is an unselfish player and works really well with Theis.

He does, but I want to keep him away from Rozier. Seems to work better alongside other willing passers, which Rozier certainly is not

Rozier is a problem, but Jaylen and Gordon play off each other very, very well.

[nyceltsfan]

I agree with the posters that say we should continue to keep the current starting lineup.  Morris, while sometimes inefficient, brings an edge to the team (in addition to Smart).  We should not need more ball dominant players in the starting lineup - there should be enough scoring with what we have, particularly with Smart's improved shooting.  That being said, who finishes is much more important, and Brad should be nimble with the talent the team has at multiple positions and play it accordingly.  I do not think there is a script that should be followed each game with this team, as it is constructed.

[keevsnick]

If you're considering the starting lineup, I'm not sure that the comparison is all that relevant - only because Morris is more of a 3/4 where Hayward is a 2/3.  So if anything Smart might be the one to move to the bench - Kyrie at the 1, Hayward at the 2. 

But that aside, the big implication - and we're starting to see it - is more minutes for Hayward.  Last night was the 2nd of a back to back and he played 34. Granted, no Kyrie, but Hayward is getting more minutes - and if he keeps this up - a lot more minutes than he'd been getting.

TP for both of your points Kuberski.  My feelings exactly.

To be honest, I don't think that's the best idea. Hayward has improved, but both he and Morris have actually been bad defensively this year. And I don't think he has the foot speed that you'd ideally want to play the two even when he's not coming back from injury. Then there's the fact that with Kyrie there will be match ups where you'd rather your SG guard the PG and hide Kyrie elsewhere, and Hayward definitely isn't doing that. I think one of Jaylen or Smart has to be in the starting lineup.

[Monkhouse]

If you're considering the starting lineup, I'm not sure that the comparison is all that relevant - only because Morris is more of a 3/4 where Hayward is a 2/3.  So if anything Smart might be the one to move to the bench - Kyrie at the 1, Hayward at the 2. 

But that aside, the big implication - and we're starting to see it - is more minutes for Hayward.  Last night was the 2nd of a back to back and he played 34. Granted, no Kyrie, but Hayward is getting more minutes - and if he keeps this up - a lot more minutes than he'd been getting.

That might be one of the worst defensive backcourts in the league... Hayward used to play the 2, but he got consistently burned on defense by faster speedier/smaller guards. Now that he's playing the 3, he's able to use his length and strength to hold off stronger/bigger 3's.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

If you're considering the starting lineup, I'm not sure that the comparison is all that relevant - only because Morris is more of a 3/4 where Hayward is a 2/3.  So if anything Smart might be the one to move to the bench - Kyrie at the 1, Hayward at the 2. 

But that aside, the big implication - and we're starting to see it - is more minutes for Hayward.  Last night was the 2nd of a back to back and he played 34. Granted, no Kyrie, but Hayward is getting more minutes - and if he keeps this up - a lot more minutes than he'd been getting.

That might be one of the worst defensive backcourts in the league... Hayward used to play the 2, but he got consistently burned on defense by faster speedier/smaller guards. Now that he's playing the 3, he's able to use his length and strength to hold off stronger/bigger 3's.

One of the worst in the league? That's a bit of exaggeration.What about Atlanta with Huerter/Young? What about Chicago with Dunn/Lavine? What about Cleveland with Sexton/Burks (or hood)? What about Detroit with Jackson/Ellington? What about the Knicks with Smith/Hardaway(or Trier)? What about Orlando with Augustine/Fournier? What about Dallas with Hardaway/Doncic? What about Denver with Murray/Harris (or Barton)? What about the Wolves with Teague/Wiggins? What about the Suns with Booker/Melton (or Johnson). What about Portland with Lillard/McCullom? What about the Spurs with Mills/Derozan?

I'd take the Irving/Hayward backcourt defensively over any of those teams. Their defensive intelligence, awareness, length, and hands are all superior to those players.

Both Kyrie and Hayward are at worst average defenders right now, regardless of Kyrie's reputation and some clunkers Hayward has played. Both have had moments this year where the make high-level game-changing defensive plays. Both are not net negatives on the court. Both contribute to league average or above average team defensive ratings when they are on the court.

[Rosco917]

Not quite understanding why Hayward is being compared to Morris. Morris is a PF in Stevens scheme of things, and Hayward is a swing.

I know that Hayward is one of the best facilitators on the team and ball movement improves greatly with him in the lineup in general. He and Horford play very well together. When Kyrie comes back I wouldn't mind seeing Hayward at the shooting guard more often. Maybe he can remind Kyrie that there are other players alongside him that can be trusted.   

However, I still definitely like Brown off the bench.

At this point, I don't like seeing Brown and Tatum in the game at the same time anymore.

[droopdog7]

I would not start Hayward.  Actually, I think as he gets better, his presence on the second unit is even more warranted.  And if we want to accelerate Hayward's production even more, bench rozier.

[Silky]

right now, based on Haywards last 2 games, and based on Irving being out, you go with Hayward in the starting lineup.

Smart/Gordon/Tatum/Morris/Al
I want to see as much of that lineup as possible (honestly Bayens in place of Morris)

Because IF Kyrie leaves, then I want to see how Smart/Hayward/Tatum/Horford/Center works before I shop any prime assets.

Honestly, I am not completely convinced that
Smart/Hayward/tatum/Horford/Center and Brown as a 6th man
is not better than
Irving/Smart/Hayward/Davis/Horford with no bench and deep into tax

[MichiganAdam]

The simple answer is to just slowly increase both playing time and crunch time minutes for Hayward, and maybe brown.  Take those minutes from Morris and Rozier.  This is the long term preferred solution anyhow.  I don't really want an all 2nd unit group playing together very often unless it is blow out time.  I would prefer 2 of Smart, Irving, horford, and hayward on the floor at all times to "run the offense".  That minimizes their time together somewhat, but it is more important to have that leadership out there.  If it is hayward and horford out there together than rozier or wannamaker should also be out there to be the "primary" ball handler to get the ball up the court.  Eventually if hayward is getting 30+ minutes and morris is getting <24 minutes than maybe you swap them, but not necessarily.  Baynes was getting 20 mins/game and was still starting both halves...

[tonydelk]

I would not start Hayward.  Actually, I think as he gets better, his presence on the second unit is even more warranted.  And if we want to accelerate Hayward's production even more, bench rozier.

The way Stevens substitutes he will most likely be one of the guys who gets subbed early while Kyrie plays the whole 1st and comes back in late in the 1st to run the 2nd unit.  Brad has always had two guys that came out early that get subbed in to lead the 2nd unit always having at least two starters on the floor for the entire game. I think it's time Smart went to the bench and Hayward get inserted to the starting lineup. 

Depending on how the game is going you play your guys who are better on D at the end or if it's tight Hayward, Irving, Horford, Tatum and Brown should close the game.

[droopdog7]

I would not start Hayward.  Actually, I think as he gets better, his presence on the second unit is even more warranted.  And if we want to accelerate Hayward's production even more, bench rozier.

The way Stevens substitutes he will most likely be one of the guys who gets subbed early while Kyrie plays the whole 1st and comes back in late in the 1st to run the 2nd unit.  Brad has always had two guys that came out early that get subbed in to lead the 2nd unit always having at least two starters on the floor for the entire game. I think it's time Smart went to the bench and Hayward get inserted to the starting lineup. 

Depending on how the game is going you play your guys who are better on D at the end or if it's tight Hayward, Irving, Horford, Tatum and Brown should close the game.

I know that was the closing lineup many people imagined but it never was for me.  Started a thread before the season started claiming that smart would be a closer and obviously, I believe that even more.  Could change from game to game but Smart has to be in the closing lineup (in most case for Brown).