What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything

[Fierce1]

Fierce1 with a load of cobwobble lol. Brown and Rozier were the only guys clutch enough to show up with monster games in game 6, which could've sent us to the finals if other guys bothered to show up. Being clutch isn't only making timely plays when your team is down in the trenches, it can also be making timely plays when your foot is on the opposing team's throat to close out a series. Brown is far better than a complementary player like Smart, the disrespect levelled at him in this forum is real lol.

It's a good thing the season starts next month.

Rozier and Brown showed up in Game 6 when the game was not close.
Game 7 was a close game and Rozier and Brown failed to deliver.

Rozier's already gone.

Will Brown remain with the Celts for 30m per year?

I don't think so.

So let's wait and see.

Oh for sure, I'm excited to see Brown spread his wings assuming that Stevens will take away the yoke on him (a short leash is an understatement for how little tolerance Stevens had for Brown last season) and give him the opportunity he deserves. And game 6 wasn't close because everyone else "failed to deliver" when winning it could've saved us from the danger of playing in a winner take all game 7, not because Brown and Rozier "fail to deliver in clutch moments". It could be because of my tennis background, but I always value players who step up to nip a game in the bud (or at least attempt to since basketball is a team sport that requires your entire team to outperform the opposition) when they have the opportunity more than players who fail to kill the match early and barely scrape by in the last possible moment with "the clutch gene". And I absolutely think that Brown will be staying here on that 30 million contract if the front office doesn't go full OKC and trade him away for a pu pu platter.

I don't know about tennis but in the NBA, not basketball in general, the clutch game enables the NBA to earn more money.

The NBA is a business first and a sport second.
That's why this year's Team USA was shocked at how physical the FIBA game is.
In the NBA, there are superstar calls, refs usually protect the star players.
That doesn't happen in international basketball.

Game 7 is where legends are made and millions of dollars are earned.

Earning money has nothing to do with the "goodness" of a player though. Winning game 6s when you can close a series out, as far as I'm concerned, helps the team out and creates legends as well (how does Michael Jordan close out finals series?).

That's why MJ is considered the greatest.

The "goodness" of a player also determines his price.
Jaylen Brown is a very good player, but he's not worth 30m per year.

One poster here compared Jaylen Brown to Jeff Green.
I think that comparison is spot-on.
That's why I don't think Jaylen is worth 30m per year.

The Jaylen Brown fans here are talking about what Jaylen can become, Jaylen's potential.
But just like Jeff Green, who had tons of potential, Uncle Jeff never lived up to the hype.
And to think the Celts broke up a championship team by trading Perk for Jeff Green.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

That's why MJ is considered the greatest.

The "goodness" of a player also determines his price.
Jaylen Brown is a very good player, but he's not worth 30m per year.

One poster here compared Jaylen Brown to Jeff Green.
I think that comparison is spot-on.
That's why I don't think Jaylen is worth 30m per year.

The Jaylen Brown fans here are talking about what Jaylen can become, Jaylen's potential.
But just like Jeff Green, who had tons of potential, Uncle Jeff never lived up to the hype.
And to think the Celts broke up a championship team by trading Perk for Jeff Green.

The initial stats are similar. The body type is somewhat similar. The early inconsistency is also similar.

But that's also true of about a half dozen other wing all-stars. That doesn't mean all of them are Jeff Green.

Brown has already had in three seasons more success in big games than Green had in his first four seasons in big games.

Green averaged 11-5-2 per 36 (37 minutes a game) on 33-30-85 shooting. That was in only 6 games, because he could not help his team advance in the playoffs.

Brown averaged 20-5-2 per 36 (32 minutes a game) on 47/39/64 shooting. That was 18 games, because he did (almost singlehandedly at times) help his team win games.

I mean, if the comparison between Green and Brown is on potential, then I agree, but their actual performance in big games is very different.

[Donoghus]

Luckily, smart front offices don't pay kids what they may have done in a singular Game 6 or not have done in a singular 7.

My god.  The kid won't even be 23 til next month.  Let's not pretend that he's already hit his ceiling.

[Moranis]

That's why MJ is considered the greatest.

The "goodness" of a player also determines his price.
Jaylen Brown is a very good player, but he's not worth 30m per year.

One poster here compared Jaylen Brown to Jeff Green.
I think that comparison is spot-on.
That's why I don't think Jaylen is worth 30m per year.

The Jaylen Brown fans here are talking about what Jaylen can become, Jaylen's potential.
But just like Jeff Green, who had tons of potential, Uncle Jeff never lived up to the hype.
And to think the Celts broke up a championship team by trading Perk for Jeff Green.

The initial stats are similar. The body type is somewhat similar. The early inconsistency is also similar.

But that's also true of about a half dozen other wing all-stars. That doesn't mean all of them are Jeff Green.

Brown has already had in three seasons more success in big games than Green had in his first four seasons in big games.

Green averaged 11-5-2 per 36 (37 minutes a game) on 33-30-85 shooting. That was in only 6 games, because he could not help his team advance in the playoffs.

Brown averaged 20-5-2 per 36 (32 minutes a game) on 47/39/64 shooting. That was 18 games, because he did (almost singlehandedly at times) help his team win games.

I mean, if the comparison between Green and Brown is on potential, then I agree, but their actual performance in big games is very different.

There is just so much wrong with this post from a factual perspective.  I mean Green played 9 playoff games in his 4th season along with the 6 in year 3, so through 4 seasons Green had 15 career playoff games and he shot significantly better in his 4th season playoff run (so by not including those you significantly alter to the negative the numbers).  Brown also has had more than 1 playoff run.  Disingenuous to include only 1 playoff run, especially when it wasn't the most recent such run, just to further skew the numbers (also not necessary since Brown clearly has better playoff numbers than Green early on even including all of them).  There is also a pretty large difference between the 3rd, at best, option and being a 1st option (like Brown was for the only playoff season you identified).  And to be clear those 6 games that Green had in year 3, were against the eventual champion.  Just some dumb luck that OKC ended up playing the best team in the world in the 1st round of the playoffs that year. 

[nickagneta]

I want to see the lineup stats for the Celtics in the last 5 minutes of a game. I seriously doubt Brown barely played in those minutes last year.

EDIT: 82games.com states Brown played in 41% of the available minutes to him in clutch situations last year which is last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter or overtime, neither team ahead by more than 5. That doesn't sound like barely playing the last 5 minutes of a game to me, especially since Brown played 48% of minutes available to him last year.

That stat doesn't tell the whole story because every Celtic fan who watched more than half the Celtic games last season never saw Brown in the last 5 minutes of the game when Hayward and Smart were playing.

Somebody posted that Brad is foolish for playing Smart over Brown in crunch time.
That confirms what I'm saying that Celtic fans rarely saw Brown in the last 5 minutes of the game last season.

Also, Brown was averaging 30.7 minutes per game in 2017-18, when Hayward was absent.
Last season Brown was only averaging 25.9 minutes per game.
Brown's minutes dropped by 4.8 minutes from 2018 to 2019.
So it's very clear that Brown doesn't usually play in the last 5 minutes of the game last season.

After losing his starting job to Smart, Brown usually plays after 5 or 7 minutes of the 1st qtr has passed.
Brown stays in early in the 2nd qtr. and sits when there's 7 or 5 minutes left before the half ends.
Same thing happens in the 3rd and 4th qtrs.
If Brown was playing a lot in the clutch, I'm sure he'll get the same 30 minutes per game or close to 30 minutes per game like what he got in 2017-18.

Brown had the 6th highest percentage of minutes played in clutch situations last year for the Celtics, just behind Morris. Clearly, he was used quite a bit in these situations, so once again you are peddling a false narrative about Brown.

If you think the kid has ceilinged out and think it best to trade him, great. But when bringing up points about him, at least tell the truth, otherwise, you really are just trolling, which is very much against site rules.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

That's why MJ is considered the greatest.

The "goodness" of a player also determines his price.
Jaylen Brown is a very good player, but he's not worth 30m per year.

One poster here compared Jaylen Brown to Jeff Green.
I think that comparison is spot-on.
That's why I don't think Jaylen is worth 30m per year.

The Jaylen Brown fans here are talking about what Jaylen can become, Jaylen's potential.
But just like Jeff Green, who had tons of potential, Uncle Jeff never lived up to the hype.
And to think the Celts broke up a championship team by trading Perk for Jeff Green.

The initial stats are similar. The body type is somewhat similar. The early inconsistency is also similar.

But that's also true of about a half dozen other wing all-stars. That doesn't mean all of them are Jeff Green.

Brown has already had in three seasons more success in big games than Green had in his first four seasons in big games.

Green averaged 11-5-2 per 36 (37 minutes a game) on 33-30-85 shooting. That was in only 6 games, because he could not help his team advance in the playoffs.

Brown averaged 20-5-2 per 36 (32 minutes a game) on 47/39/64 shooting. That was 18 games, because he did (almost singlehandedly at times) help his team win games.

I mean, if the comparison between Green and Brown is on potential, then I agree, but their actual performance in big games is very different.

There is just so much wrong with this post from a factual perspective.  I mean Green played 9 playoff games in his 4th season along with the 6 in year 3, so through 4 seasons Green had 15 career playoff games and he shot significantly better in his 4th season playoff run (so by not including those you significantly alter to the negative the numbers).  Brown also has had more than 1 playoff run.  Disingenuous to include only 1 playoff run, especially when it wasn't the most recent such run, just to further skew the numbers (also not necessary since Brown clearly has better playoff numbers than Green early on even including all of them).  There is also a pretty large difference between the 3rd, at best, option and being a 1st option (like Brown was for the only playoff season you identified).  And to be clear those 6 games that Green had in year 3, were against the eventual champion.  Just some dumb luck that OKC ended up playing the best team in the world in the 1st round of the playoffs that year.

I meant to post comparing their second year post-season.

[Moranis]

That's why MJ is considered the greatest.

The "goodness" of a player also determines his price.
Jaylen Brown is a very good player, but he's not worth 30m per year.

One poster here compared Jaylen Brown to Jeff Green.
I think that comparison is spot-on.
That's why I don't think Jaylen is worth 30m per year.

The Jaylen Brown fans here are talking about what Jaylen can become, Jaylen's potential.
But just like Jeff Green, who had tons of potential, Uncle Jeff never lived up to the hype.
And to think the Celts broke up a championship team by trading Perk for Jeff Green.

The initial stats are similar. The body type is somewhat similar. The early inconsistency is also similar.

But that's also true of about a half dozen other wing all-stars. That doesn't mean all of them are Jeff Green.

Brown has already had in three seasons more success in big games than Green had in his first four seasons in big games.

Green averaged 11-5-2 per 36 (37 minutes a game) on 33-30-85 shooting. That was in only 6 games, because he could not help his team advance in the playoffs.

Brown averaged 20-5-2 per 36 (32 minutes a game) on 47/39/64 shooting. That was 18 games, because he did (almost singlehandedly at times) help his team win games.

I mean, if the comparison between Green and Brown is on potential, then I agree, but their actual performance in big games is very different.

There is just so much wrong with this post from a factual perspective.  I mean Green played 9 playoff games in his 4th season along with the 6 in year 3, so through 4 seasons Green had 15 career playoff games and he shot significantly better in his 4th season playoff run (so by not including those you significantly alter to the negative the numbers).  Brown also has had more than 1 playoff run.  Disingenuous to include only 1 playoff run, especially when it wasn't the most recent such run, just to further skew the numbers (also not necessary since Brown clearly has better playoff numbers than Green early on even including all of them).  There is also a pretty large difference between the 3rd, at best, option and being a 1st option (like Brown was for the only playoff season you identified).  And to be clear those 6 games that Green had in year 3, were against the eventual champion.  Just some dumb luck that OKC ended up playing the best team in the world in the 1st round of the playoffs that year.

I meant to post comparing their second year post-season.

Green didn't make the post-season in his second year. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Green didn't make the post-season in his second year.

Well I apologize. I must have looked at the numbers wrong in my rush to get my thoughts out. Thanks for the correction.

I still think there is a valid point there about the contrast between their performance in big games early in their career, which probably indicates Brown is not the new Green.

[Fierce1]

I want to see the lineup stats for the Celtics in the last 5 minutes of a game. I seriously doubt Brown barely played in those minutes last year.

EDIT: 82games.com states Brown played in 41% of the available minutes to him in clutch situations last year which is last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter or overtime, neither team ahead by more than 5. That doesn't sound like barely playing the last 5 minutes of a game to me, especially since Brown played 48% of minutes available to him last year.

That stat doesn't tell the whole story because every Celtic fan who watched more than half the Celtic games last season never saw Brown in the last 5 minutes of the game when Hayward and Smart were playing.

Somebody posted that Brad is foolish for playing Smart over Brown in crunch time.
That confirms what I'm saying that Celtic fans rarely saw Brown in the last 5 minutes of the game last season.

Also, Brown was averaging 30.7 minutes per game in 2017-18, when Hayward was absent.
Last season Brown was only averaging 25.9 minutes per game.
Brown's minutes dropped by 4.8 minutes from 2018 to 2019.
So it's very clear that Brown doesn't usually play in the last 5 minutes of the game last season.

After losing his starting job to Smart, Brown usually plays after 5 or 7 minutes of the 1st qtr has passed.
Brown stays in early in the 2nd qtr. and sits when there's 7 or 5 minutes left before the half ends.
Same thing happens in the 3rd and 4th qtrs.
If Brown was playing a lot in the clutch, I'm sure he'll get the same 30 minutes per game or close to 30 minutes per game like what he got in 2017-18.

Brown had the 6th highest percentage of minutes played in clutch situations last year for the Celtics, just behind Morris. Clearly, he was used quite a bit in these situations, so once again you are peddling a false narrative about Brown.

If you think the kid has ceilinged out and think it best to trade him, great. But when bringing up points about him, at least tell the truth, otherwise, you really are just trolling, which is very much against site rules.

How can bringing up Brown's minutes be trolling?

It's true that Brown's minutes went from 30.7 mpg in 2018 to 25.9 mpg in 2019.

Other Celtic fans also confirmed that Brown was not playing in crunch time last season.
Somebody said it was foolish of Brad Stevens to play Smart over Brown in crunch time.

If you don't believe my points then go check out play by play sheet in each of the Celtic games last season.
You will find a lot of times Brad yanked Brown with 5 or 7 minutes remaining in the 4th and Brad never put Brown back in.

I'm not making that up.
I have league pass so more or less I watched 60 Celtic games last season.

What we see in actual games trumps whatever the stats say.
We can actually see it on TV.

So it's unfair to accuse me of trolling because I never peddled false information about Jaylen Brown.

Check Somebody's post about how Brad is foolish for playing Smart over Brown in crunch time.
I'm not the only one who didn't see Brown in the last 5 minutes of a lot of Celtic games last season.

[Fierce1]

Here's one example of a very tight game and the Celts end up winning with Hayward's game winning shot with 2.0 secs remaining.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=401071646

Jaylen was yanked with 8:32 minutes left in the 4th.

Brad put him back in for defensive purposes with 1:52 remaining and was replaced by Rozier at the 1:45 mark.

Brown once again was put back in with 15.5 secs remaining for defense and pulled out again with 7.6 secs remaining.

Clearly Brown was not getting significant minutes in crunch time.

[keevsnick]

Here's one example of a very tight game and the Celts end up winning with Hayward's game winning shot with 2.0 secs remaining.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=401071646

Jaylen was yanked with 8:32 minutes left in the 4th.

Brad put him back in for defensive purposes with 1:52 remaining and was replaced by Rozier at the 1:45 mark.

Brown once again was put back in with 15.5 secs remaining for defense and pulled out again with 7.6 secs remaining.

Clearly Brown was not getting significant minutes in crunch time.

Okay man, I'll take the bait. Taking one game and extrapolating from it large sample size absolutes is BAD, especially right after very good posters just took the time to look up and share large sample sized data that refutes your position. Please try harder, because this is border line embarrassing right now.

[mmmmm]

I want to see the lineup stats for the Celtics in the last 5 minutes of a game. I seriously doubt Brown barely played in those minutes last year.

EDIT: 82games.com states Brown played in 41% of the available minutes to him in clutch situations last year which is last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter or overtime, neither team ahead by more than 5. That doesn't sound like barely playing the last 5 minutes of a game to me, especially since Brown played 48% of minutes available to him last year.

That stat doesn't tell the whole story because every Celtic fan who watched more than half the Celtic games last season never saw Brown in the last 5 minutes of the game when Hayward and Smart were playing.

Somebody posted that Brad is foolish for playing Smart over Brown in crunch time.
That confirms what I'm saying that Celtic fans rarely saw Brown in the last 5 minutes of the game last season.

Also, Brown was averaging 30.7 minutes per game in 2017-18, when Hayward was absent.
Last season Brown was only averaging 25.9 minutes per game.
Brown's minutes dropped by 4.8 minutes from 2018 to 2019.
So it's very clear that Brown doesn't usually play in the last 5 minutes of the game last season.

After losing his starting job to Smart, Brown usually plays after 5 or 7 minutes of the 1st qtr has passed.
Brown stays in early in the 2nd qtr. and sits when there's 7 or 5 minutes left before the half ends.
Same thing happens in the 3rd and 4th qtrs.
If Brown was playing a lot in the clutch, I'm sure he'll get the same 30 minutes per game or close to 30 minutes per game like what he got in 2017-18.

Brown had the 6th highest percentage of minutes played in clutch situations last year for the Celtics, just behind Morris. Clearly, he was used quite a bit in these situations, so once again you are peddling a false narrative about Brown.

If you think the kid has ceilinged out and think it best to trade him, great. But when bringing up points about him, at least tell the truth, otherwise, you really are just trolling, which is very much against site rules.

How can bringing up Brown's minutes be trolling?

It's true that Brown's minutes went from 30.7 mpg in 2018 to 25.9 mpg in 2019.

Other Celtic fans also confirmed that Brown was not playing in crunch time last season.

"Other Celtic fans" saying something doesn't make it a fact.

Here are a few facts:

The Celtics last year (regular season plus playoffs) played a total of 1111 minutes of 4th period and overtime.

The players who played the most minutes in the 4th period and overtime this last year were:

Jayson Tatum 632 minutes
Jaylen Brown 619
Terry Rozier  588
Gordon Hayward 542
Al Horford  499
Kyrie Irving.  488
Marcus Morris. 478
Marcus Smart. 444

(drops off significantly after that)

Of those 1111 minutes, 148 of them were considered 'clutch' -- score within 5 points, less than 5 minutes to play.  Of those, Jaylen played in 61 of those clutch minutes, or 41.2%, just as nickagneta originally stated.

Now, Jaylen obviously had a bit of an up-and-down season.   What's kinda interesting is that from March 1 to the end of the regular season the guys who played the most minutes during "clutch time" were:

Kyrie Irving  23 minutes
Jaylen Brown. 20 minutes
Al Horford. 19 minutes
Jayson Tatum.17 minutes

So your assertion is just plain fundamentally, factually wrong.  Please stop.

All stats courtesy of nba.com.

EDIT:  Added post-March 1st rankings.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I want to see the lineup stats for the Celtics in the last 5 minutes of a game. I seriously doubt Brown barely played in those minutes last year.

EDIT: 82games.com states Brown played in 41% of the available minutes to him in clutch situations last year which is last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter or overtime, neither team ahead by more than 5. That doesn't sound like barely playing the last 5 minutes of a game to me, especially since Brown played 48% of minutes available to him last year.

"Other Celtic fans" saying something doesn't make it a fact.

Here are a few facts:

The Celtics last year (regular season plus playoffs) played a total of 1111 minutes of 4th period and overtime.

The players who played the most minutes in the 4th period and overtime this last year were:

Jayson Tatum 632 minutes
Jaylen Brown 619
Terry Rozier  588
Gordon Hayward 542
Al Horford  499
Kyrie Irving.  488
Marcus Morris. 478
Marcus Smart. 444

(drops off significantly after that)

Of those 1111 minutes, 148 of them were considered 'clutch' -- score within 5 points, less than 5 minutes to play.  Of those, Jaylen played in 61 of those clutch minutes, or 41.2%, just as nickagneta originally stated.

So your assertion is just plain fundamentally, factually wrong.  Please stop.

All stats courtesy of nba.com.

Stop with the facts! It makes it to hard to hear our opinions!

[nickagneta]

Here's one example of a very tight game and the Celts end up winning with Hayward's game winning shot with 2.0 secs remaining.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=401071646

Jaylen was yanked with 8:32 minutes left in the 4th.

Brad put him back in for defensive purposes with 1:52 remaining and was replaced by Rozier at the 1:45 mark.

Brown once again was put back in with 15.5 secs remaining for defense and pulled out again with 7.6 secs remaining.

Clearly Brown was not getting significant minutes in crunch time.

Okay man, I'll take the bait. Taking one game and extrapolating from it large sample size absolutes is BAD, especially right after very good posters just took the time to look up and share large sample sized data that refutes your position. Please try harder, because this is border line embarrassing right now.

Yeah, I mean, I went and looked and the first close game towards the end of the season I found was the C's win over Indy in April. Celtics win 114-112. The last 5 minutes started at 105-105. Brown played all but 13 seconds of those 5 minutes.

It doesn't prove anything beyond that one game. What the broader stats show is Kyrie, Tatum and Horford almost always played in those minutes and that Smart, Morris, Brown and Hayward then switched in and out a bunch to make up the most used combos.

I am not saying Brown was a closer. The team had three closers in Kyrie, Horford and Tatum. But the next 4 guys all played bunches of minutes in crunch time, last 5 minutes of the game, teams within 5 points.  It's just wrong that Brown never played in those situations last year.

[Fierce1]

Here's one example of a very tight game and the Celts end up winning with Hayward's game winning shot with 2.0 secs remaining.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=401071646

Jaylen was yanked with 8:32 minutes left in the 4th.

Brad put him back in for defensive purposes with 1:52 remaining and was replaced by Rozier at the 1:45 mark.

Brown once again was put back in with 15.5 secs remaining for defense and pulled out again with 7.6 secs remaining.

Clearly Brown was not getting significant minutes in crunch time.

Okay man, I'll take the bait. Taking one game and extrapolating from it large sample size absolutes is BAD, especially right after very good posters just took the time to look up and share large sample sized data that refutes your position. Please try harder, because this is border line embarrassing right now.

Yeah, I mean, I went and looked and the first close game towards the end of the season I found was the C's win over Indy in April. Celtics win 114-112. The last 5 minutes started at 105-105. Brown played all but 13 seconds of those 5 minutes.

It doesn't prove anything beyond that one game. What the broader stats show is Kyrie, Tatum and Horford almost always played in those minutes and that Smart, Morris, Brown and Hayward then switched in and out a bunch to make up the most used combos.

I am not saying Brown was a closer. The team had three closers in Kyrie, Horford and Tatum. But the next 4 guys all played bunches of minutes in crunch time, last 5 minutes of the game, teams within 5 points.  It's just wrong that Brown never played in those situations last year.

That's because I'm not saying Brown NEVER played in crunch time.

What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.

Check my posts again.
I never said Brown NEVER played in crunch time.
What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.