What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything

[Fierce1]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

[gouki88]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

Can you give a few examples of teams trading a strong rotation player on a rookie contract and getting good value?

You say the Celtics need a quality big man or a star player. How do you propose trading for either of those without significant matching salary? You're just bashing Brown for the sake of it at this stage

[Fierce1]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

Even if your assessment was true, your result is way off.

For example, Harrison Barnes just got a slightly smaller contract from the Kings, but their stats are very similar. Allowing for Brown's potential upside and Barnes likely having reached his peak, Brown is worth more.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Harrison+Barnes&player_id1_select=Harrison+Barnes&player_id1=barneha02&y1=2019&player_id2_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id2_select=Jaylen+Brown&y2=2019&player_id2=brownja02&idx=players

Also, Kris Middleton just got a way bigger contract, even though Brown is very close to his ability, with much more room for improvement.

Or Aaron Gordon. Or there are others ...

There are more examples. You may rather have a different player, but those are the comparables for a player of Brown's production both ways and upside.

If Brown to agrees to what Harrison Barnes got, I think it's a good deal for the Celts.

But like one poster here said, Brown will just laugh off an offer of 23m per year.

Barnes got an average of 21.25m per year.
That's a good deal if the Celts can convince Brown to take that amount.
But because the free-agent class next summer is weak, Brown will be one of the top FAs next summer.
Brown can easily get 30m per year from a team desperate for talent.

[Fierce1]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

Can you give a few examples of teams trading a strong rotation player on a rookie contract and getting good value?

You say the Celtics need a quality big man or a star player. How do you propose trading for either of those without significant matching salary? You're just bashing Brown for the sake of it at this stage

We all want the same thing as Celtic fans and that's for the Celts to win another championship.

Banner 18 was supposed to be won by Pierce, KG, and Ray.

Unfortunately that did not happen.

I'm not bashing brown, I just don't believe he's a special player.
Celtics are not going to win a championship with average or above average players.
What the Celts need is a quality big man or a star player.

For example, by January the Celts can already trade Theis.
So the Celts can offer Smart, Brown, and Theis for Bradley Beal.

Beal is the 2-way SG the Celts need.

Those saying Beal is not a special player are just biased.
Beal has proven that he can score in the regular season and in the playoffs.
He's also good on defense.
That's the SG the Celts need.

If the Celts go the big man route, Celts can package Brown, Smart, and Theis for Kevin Love.
Kevin Love was injured last season.
So Love needs to prove he's healthy this season.
By January or February, Love's trade value will either go up or go down, depending on his performance.

If the Celts want to play it safe, Celts can trade Brown for Sabonis and a filler to make salaries match.

Sabonis, just like Brown, has the potential to develop into a very good player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brown is bad, in fact, Jaylen is very good.
The problem is very good is not going to get us Banner 18.
What the Celts need is a player like Kawhi, Paul George, or Jimmy Butler.
Players that can score 20 per game and will want the ball in their hands in crunch time.

[gouki88]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

Can you give a few examples of teams trading a strong rotation player on a rookie contract and getting good value?

You say the Celtics need a quality big man or a star player. How do you propose trading for either of those without significant matching salary? You're just bashing Brown for the sake of it at this stage

We all want the same thing as Celtic fans and that's for the Celts to win another championship.

Banner 18 was supposed to be won by Pierce, KG, and Ray.

Unfortunately that did not happen.

I'm not bashing brown, I just don't believe he's a special player.
Celtics are not going to win a championship with average or above average players.
What the Celts need is a quality big man or a star player.

For example, by January the Celts can already trade Theis.
So the Celts can offer Smart, Brown, and Theis for Bradley Beal.

Beal is the 2-way SG the Celts need.

Those saying Beal is not a special player are just biased.
Beal has proven that he can score in the regular season and in the playoffs.
He's also good on defense.
That's the SG the Celts need.

If the Celts go the big man route, Celts can package Brown, Smart, and Theis for Kevin Love.
Kevin Love was injured last season.
So Love needs to prove he's healthy this season.
By January or February, Love's trade value will either go up or go down, depending on his performance.

If the Celts want to play it safe, Celts can trade Brown for Sabonis and a filler to make salaries match.

Sabonis, just like Brown, has the potential to develop into a very good player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brown is bad, in fact, Jaylen is very good.
The problem is very good is not going to get us Banner 18.
What the Celts need is a player like Kawhi, Paul George, or Jimmy Butler.
Players that can score 20 per game and will want the ball in their hands in crunch time.

Come on man.

Bradley Beal is not a good defender. No idea where you got that impression. I'm a big fan of Beal, but he's not a good defender. He's average. Why are Washington trading him for that package?

Kevin Love is a terrible idea. He can't get on the court and can't defend.

Would we not have the same problem with Sabonis? He's going to warrant big money, and I don't know why Indy would ship him.

[Fierce1]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

Can you give a few examples of teams trading a strong rotation player on a rookie contract and getting good value?

You say the Celtics need a quality big man or a star player. How do you propose trading for either of those without significant matching salary? You're just bashing Brown for the sake of it at this stage

We all want the same thing as Celtic fans and that's for the Celts to win another championship.

Banner 18 was supposed to be won by Pierce, KG, and Ray.

Unfortunately that did not happen.

I'm not bashing brown, I just don't believe he's a special player.
Celtics are not going to win a championship with average or above average players.
What the Celts need is a quality big man or a star player.

For example, by January the Celts can already trade Theis.
So the Celts can offer Smart, Brown, and Theis for Bradley Beal.

Beal is the 2-way SG the Celts need.

Those saying Beal is not a special player are just biased.
Beal has proven that he can score in the regular season and in the playoffs.
He's also good on defense.
That's the SG the Celts need.

If the Celts go the big man route, Celts can package Brown, Smart, and Theis for Kevin Love.
Kevin Love was injured last season.
So Love needs to prove he's healthy this season.
By January or February, Love's trade value will either go up or go down, depending on his performance.

If the Celts want to play it safe, Celts can trade Brown for Sabonis and a filler to make salaries match.

Sabonis, just like Brown, has the potential to develop into a very good player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brown is bad, in fact, Jaylen is very good.
The problem is very good is not going to get us Banner 18.
What the Celts need is a player like Kawhi, Paul George, or Jimmy Butler.
Players that can score 20 per game and will want the ball in their hands in crunch time.

Come on man.

Bradley Beal is not a good defender. No idea where you got that impression. I'm a big fan of Beal, but he's not a good defender. He's average. Why are Washington trading him for that package?

Kevin Love is a terrible idea. He can't get on the court and can't defend.

Would we not have the same problem with Sabonis? He's going to warrant big money, and I don't know why Indy would ship him.

Since you're a fan of Beal, I don't think you would disagree if I say Beal is an upgrade over Jaylen Brown.

Kevin Love's problem is defense, that's true.
But with the departure of Horford, Celts need a PF who can rebound and score.
Love can rebound and score and can play the 5 if the Celts want to go small ball.
It really depends on how Love plays this season.

Sabonis will also want big money, true.
But Sabonis is not a wing player, he's a 4 or 5.
Celts need a 4 or a 5.
So giving Sabonis big money is not being redundant, like having 3 wing players at 30m per year each.

Reason why Indy would ship him is the Pacers already gave Myles Turner big money and the Pacers just drafted another Center, Goga.

It's looking like it's the same case with the Celts drafting Langford, Pacers also wary about Sabonis leaving.

[gouki88]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

Can you give a few examples of teams trading a strong rotation player on a rookie contract and getting good value?

You say the Celtics need a quality big man or a star player. How do you propose trading for either of those without significant matching salary? You're just bashing Brown for the sake of it at this stage

We all want the same thing as Celtic fans and that's for the Celts to win another championship.

Banner 18 was supposed to be won by Pierce, KG, and Ray.

Unfortunately that did not happen.

I'm not bashing brown, I just don't believe he's a special player.
Celtics are not going to win a championship with average or above average players.
What the Celts need is a quality big man or a star player.

For example, by January the Celts can already trade Theis.
So the Celts can offer Smart, Brown, and Theis for Bradley Beal.

Beal is the 2-way SG the Celts need.

Those saying Beal is not a special player are just biased.
Beal has proven that he can score in the regular season and in the playoffs.
He's also good on defense.
That's the SG the Celts need.

If the Celts go the big man route, Celts can package Brown, Smart, and Theis for Kevin Love.
Kevin Love was injured last season.
So Love needs to prove he's healthy this season.
By January or February, Love's trade value will either go up or go down, depending on his performance.

If the Celts want to play it safe, Celts can trade Brown for Sabonis and a filler to make salaries match.

Sabonis, just like Brown, has the potential to develop into a very good player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brown is bad, in fact, Jaylen is very good.
The problem is very good is not going to get us Banner 18.
What the Celts need is a player like Kawhi, Paul George, or Jimmy Butler.
Players that can score 20 per game and will want the ball in their hands in crunch time.

Come on man.

Bradley Beal is not a good defender. No idea where you got that impression. I'm a big fan of Beal, but he's not a good defender. He's average. Why are Washington trading him for that package?

Kevin Love is a terrible idea. He can't get on the court and can't defend.

Would we not have the same problem with Sabonis? He's going to warrant big money, and I don't know why Indy would ship him.

Since you're a fan of Beal, I don't think you would disagree if I say Beal is an upgrade over Jaylen Brown.

Kevin Love's problem is defense, that's true.
But with the departure of Horford, Celts need a PF who can rebound and score.
Love can rebound and score and can play the 5 if the Celts want to go small ball.
It really depends on how Love plays this season.

Sabonis will also want big money, true.
But Sabonis is not a wing players, he's a 4 or 5.
Celts need a 4 or a 5.
So giving Sabonis big money is not being redundant, like having 3 wing players at 30m per year each.

Reason why Indy would ship him is the Pacers already gave Myles Turner big money and the Pacers just drafted another Center, Goga.

It's looking like it's the same case with the Celts drafting Langford, Pacers also wary about Sabonis leaving.

Of course I wouldn't. Beal is a clear upgrade over Brown. However, he only has 2 years left on his contract and will likely demand massive money. Unless Hayward is out of the picture by then I'm not sure if DA and co. would go down that path.

I don't think it depends on how Love plays, but rather how often Love plays. The last time he played more than 60 games in a season was 2015-16. Plus, we don't have any really strong big-man defence, so adding Love would only further hurt that.

Sabonis is also cost-controlled by another team and is currently probably a better player than Brown. I don't think they trade him until they see how their team can go with Dipo, Brogdon, the twin towers and TJ Warren. Considering Sabonis is an RFA I think Indy is happy to wing it and see how it goes.

[blink]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

Can you give a few examples of teams trading a strong rotation player on a rookie contract and getting good value?

You say the Celtics need a quality big man or a star player. How do you propose trading for either of those without significant matching salary? You're just bashing Brown for the sake of it at this stage

We all want the same thing as Celtic fans and that's for the Celts to win another championship.

Banner 18 was supposed to be won by Pierce, KG, and Ray.

Unfortunately that did not happen.

I'm not bashing brown, I just don't believe he's a special player.
Celtics are not going to win a championship with average or above average players.
What the Celts need is a quality big man or a star player.

For example, by January the Celts can already trade Theis.
So the Celts can offer Smart, Brown, and Theis for Bradley Beal.

Beal is the 2-way SG the Celts need.

Those saying Beal is not a special player are just biased.
Beal has proven that he can score in the regular season and in the playoffs.
He's also good on defense.
That's the SG the Celts need.

If the Celts go the big man route, Celts can package Brown, Smart, and Theis for Kevin Love.
Kevin Love was injured last season.
So Love needs to prove he's healthy this season.
By January or February, Love's trade value will either go up or go down, depending on his performance.

If the Celts want to play it safe, Celts can trade Brown for Sabonis and a filler to make salaries match.

Sabonis, just like Brown, has the potential to develop into a very good player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brown is bad, in fact, Jaylen is very good.
The problem is very good is not going to get us Banner 18.
What the Celts need is a player like Kawhi, Paul George, or Jimmy Butler.
Players that can score 20 per game and will want the ball in their hands in crunch time.

Now somehow Bradley Beal is the 'two-way' player than that Celtics need?  lol cmon man that is crazy.
Bradely Beal isn't a great def player, I wouldn't even call him a great 2 way player.
He is a great scorer.  But he is a really poor match with a def challenged Kemba.  And how will it go with Beal when he is sharing shots with Kemba, Tatum, Hayward?  You think that Brown had a problem handling a smaller role in the offense, see how that works out with Beal.

But haven't you said in so many other threads how bad the logjam with Brown, Tatum and Hayward all playing will make?  You have said that over and over again.  How is that going to work when you substitute Beal for Brown.  I will tell you, it will be worse.  Our overall Def isn't going to be better.

You are inventing this whole problem with Brown going into free agency when there isn't one.  Let the market determine how much Brown gets and then resign him.  Two way wings are in great demand, we need to keep Brown.

[Fierce1]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

Can you give a few examples of teams trading a strong rotation player on a rookie contract and getting good value?

You say the Celtics need a quality big man or a star player. How do you propose trading for either of those without significant matching salary? You're just bashing Brown for the sake of it at this stage

We all want the same thing as Celtic fans and that's for the Celts to win another championship.

Banner 18 was supposed to be won by Pierce, KG, and Ray.

Unfortunately that did not happen.

I'm not bashing brown, I just don't believe he's a special player.
Celtics are not going to win a championship with average or above average players.
What the Celts need is a quality big man or a star player.

For example, by January the Celts can already trade Theis.
So the Celts can offer Smart, Brown, and Theis for Bradley Beal.

Beal is the 2-way SG the Celts need.

Those saying Beal is not a special player are just biased.
Beal has proven that he can score in the regular season and in the playoffs.
He's also good on defense.
That's the SG the Celts need.

If the Celts go the big man route, Celts can package Brown, Smart, and Theis for Kevin Love.
Kevin Love was injured last season.
So Love needs to prove he's healthy this season.
By January or February, Love's trade value will either go up or go down, depending on his performance.

If the Celts want to play it safe, Celts can trade Brown for Sabonis and a filler to make salaries match.

Sabonis, just like Brown, has the potential to develop into a very good player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brown is bad, in fact, Jaylen is very good.
The problem is very good is not going to get us Banner 18.
What the Celts need is a player like Kawhi, Paul George, or Jimmy Butler.
Players that can score 20 per game and will want the ball in their hands in crunch time.

Come on man.

Bradley Beal is not a good defender. No idea where you got that impression. I'm a big fan of Beal, but he's not a good defender. He's average. Why are Washington trading him for that package?

Kevin Love is a terrible idea. He can't get on the court and can't defend.

Would we not have the same problem with Sabonis? He's going to warrant big money, and I don't know why Indy would ship him.

Since you're a fan of Beal, I don't think you would disagree if I say Beal is an upgrade over Jaylen Brown.

Kevin Love's problem is defense, that's true.
But with the departure of Horford, Celts need a PF who can rebound and score.
Love can rebound and score and can play the 5 if the Celts want to go small ball.
It really depends on how Love plays this season.

Sabonis will also want big money, true.
But Sabonis is not a wing players, he's a 4 or 5.
Celts need a 4 or a 5.
So giving Sabonis big money is not being redundant, like having 3 wing players at 30m per year each.

Reason why Indy would ship him is the Pacers already gave Myles Turner big money and the Pacers just drafted another Center, Goga.

It's looking like it's the same case with the Celts drafting Langford, Pacers also wary about Sabonis leaving.

Of course I wouldn't. Beal is a clear upgrade over Brown. However, he only has 2 years left on his contract and will likely demand massive money. Unless Hayward is out of the picture by then I'm not sure if DA and co. would go down that path.

I don't think it depends on how Love plays, but rather how often Love plays. The last time he played more than 60 games in a season was 2015-16. Plus, we don't have any really strong big-man defence, so adding Love would only further hurt that.

Sabonis is also cost-controlled by another team and is currently probably a better player than Brown. I don't think they trade him until they see how their team can go with Dipo, Brogdon, the twin towers and TJ Warren. Considering Sabonis is an RFA I think Indy is happy to wing it and see how it goes.

I agree with you about Love.
But Ainge and the Celts were rumored to be going after Love before Love got traded to the Cavs in 2014.
So maybe if Love is healthy this season, Celts might want Love.

Both Hayward and Beal have 2 years left.
So it's not going to be a problem.
Celts will have options.

Kemba is already 29 years old.
Celts need to win in the next 2 years.
A PG like Kemba will be old once he's 32 years old.
So right now the Celts are in win now mode with Kemba.

Before the Celts signed Kemba, Ainge was saying that the Celts were willing to build around Tatum and Brown.
If only Ainge did that, there would be no pressure to win in the next 2 years.
Celts could have taken their time and let Tatum and Brown carry the Celts.
But Ainge and the Celts don't want a quasi rebuild.
That's why they signed Kemba.

If the Celts have Kemba, Beal, Hayward, and Tatum for the next 2 years, there's no doubt in my mind the Celts will have the best 1, 2, 3, 4 in the league.

[Fierce1]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

Can you give a few examples of teams trading a strong rotation player on a rookie contract and getting good value?

You say the Celtics need a quality big man or a star player. How do you propose trading for either of those without significant matching salary? You're just bashing Brown for the sake of it at this stage

We all want the same thing as Celtic fans and that's for the Celts to win another championship.

Banner 18 was supposed to be won by Pierce, KG, and Ray.

Unfortunately that did not happen.

I'm not bashing brown, I just don't believe he's a special player.
Celtics are not going to win a championship with average or above average players.
What the Celts need is a quality big man or a star player.

For example, by January the Celts can already trade Theis.
So the Celts can offer Smart, Brown, and Theis for Bradley Beal.

Beal is the 2-way SG the Celts need.

Those saying Beal is not a special player are just biased.
Beal has proven that he can score in the regular season and in the playoffs.
He's also good on defense.
That's the SG the Celts need.

If the Celts go the big man route, Celts can package Brown, Smart, and Theis for Kevin Love.
Kevin Love was injured last season.
So Love needs to prove he's healthy this season.
By January or February, Love's trade value will either go up or go down, depending on his performance.

If the Celts want to play it safe, Celts can trade Brown for Sabonis and a filler to make salaries match.

Sabonis, just like Brown, has the potential to develop into a very good player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brown is bad, in fact, Jaylen is very good.
The problem is very good is not going to get us Banner 18.
What the Celts need is a player like Kawhi, Paul George, or Jimmy Butler.
Players that can score 20 per game and will want the ball in their hands in crunch time.

Now somehow Bradley Beal is the 'two-way' player than that Celtics need?  lol cmon man that is crazy.
Bradely Beal isn't a great def player, I wouldn't even call him a great 2 way player.
He is a great scorer.  But he is a really poor match with a def challenged Kemba.  And how will it go with Beal when he is sharing shots with Kemba, Tatum, Hayward?  You think that Brown had a problem handling a smaller role in the offense, see how that works out with Beal.

But haven't you said in so many other threads how bad the logjam with Brown, Tatum and Hayward all playing will make?  You have said that over and over again.  How is that going to work when you substitute Beal for Brown.  I will tell you, it will be worse.  Our overall Def isn't going to be better.

You are inventing this whole problem with Brown going into free agency when there isn't one.  Let the market determine how much Brown gets and then resign him.  Two way wings are in great demand, we need to keep Brown.

The logjam is solved by removing Smart and Brown for Beal.

Remember last season when most of the time only 6 players got to play in the last 5 minutes of the game?

Last season it was Kyrie, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, Horford, and Morris getting minutes in crunch time.

Brown rarely played in the last 5 minutes of the game last season.
That's why Brown's stats went down.
Brown went from 30 minutes per game, when Hayward was out in 2018, to 25-26 minutes per game when Hayward returned.

So the logjam will be solved if Brown and Smart are packaged for Beal.

Let's agree to disagree with Beal on defense.

Also, in today's NBA, defense is overrated.
The new freedom of movement rule is making NBA players soft.
Just look at what happened to Team USA at the FIBA tournament.
It's like USA players were shocked at how physical the FIBA players are.

[blink]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

Can you give a few examples of teams trading a strong rotation player on a rookie contract and getting good value?

You say the Celtics need a quality big man or a star player. How do you propose trading for either of those without significant matching salary? You're just bashing Brown for the sake of it at this stage

We all want the same thing as Celtic fans and that's for the Celts to win another championship.

Banner 18 was supposed to be won by Pierce, KG, and Ray.

Unfortunately that did not happen.

I'm not bashing brown, I just don't believe he's a special player.
Celtics are not going to win a championship with average or above average players.
What the Celts need is a quality big man or a star player.

For example, by January the Celts can already trade Theis.
So the Celts can offer Smart, Brown, and Theis for Bradley Beal.

Beal is the 2-way SG the Celts need.

Those saying Beal is not a special player are just biased.
Beal has proven that he can score in the regular season and in the playoffs.
He's also good on defense.
That's the SG the Celts need.

If the Celts go the big man route, Celts can package Brown, Smart, and Theis for Kevin Love.
Kevin Love was injured last season.
So Love needs to prove he's healthy this season.
By January or February, Love's trade value will either go up or go down, depending on his performance.

If the Celts want to play it safe, Celts can trade Brown for Sabonis and a filler to make salaries match.

Sabonis, just like Brown, has the potential to develop into a very good player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brown is bad, in fact, Jaylen is very good.
The problem is very good is not going to get us Banner 18.
What the Celts need is a player like Kawhi, Paul George, or Jimmy Butler.
Players that can score 20 per game and will want the ball in their hands in crunch time.

Now somehow Bradley Beal is the 'two-way' player than that Celtics need?  lol cmon man that is crazy.
Bradely Beal isn't a great def player, I wouldn't even call him a great 2 way player.
He is a great scorer.  But he is a really poor match with a def challenged Kemba.  And how will it go with Beal when he is sharing shots with Kemba, Tatum, Hayward?  You think that Brown had a problem handling a smaller role in the offense, see how that works out with Beal.

But haven't you said in so many other threads how bad the logjam with Brown, Tatum and Hayward all playing will make?  You have said that over and over again.  How is that going to work when you substitute Beal for Brown.  I will tell you, it will be worse.  Our overall Def isn't going to be better.

You are inventing this whole problem with Brown going into free agency when there isn't one.  Let the market determine how much Brown gets and then resign him.  Two way wings are in great demand, we need to keep Brown.

The logjam is solved by removing Smart and Brown for Beal.

Remember last season when only 6 players most of the time got to play in the last 5 minutes of the game?

Last season it was Kyrie, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, Hoford, and Morris getting minutes in crunch time.

Brown rarely played in the last 5 minutes of the game last season.
That's Brown's stats went down.
Brown went from 30 minutes per game, when Hayward was out in 2018, to 25-26 minutes per game when Hayward returned.

So the logjam will be solved if Brown and Smart are packaged for Beal.

Let's agree to disagree with Beal on defense.

Also, in today's NBA, defense is overrated.
The new freedom of movement rule is make NBA players soft.
Just look at what happened to Team USA at the FIBA tournament.
It's like USA players were shocked at how physical the FIBA players are.

Oh man no way I would trade Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown both for Beal.  To me that is completely crazy.
We would have barely done that to get Davis, an MVP level player, and you are going to trade them for Beal?  That is WAY too much.  Beal is not a good defender.  He just isn't.

I don't think Beal is a good fit with Kemba.  Beal took more shots than Kyrie last year so which one of those guys is gonna give up their shots?  Or maybe you want Tatum and Hayward down at 8-10 attempts per game?

You trade away our two best most versatile def players.  Both guys can guard 1-4.  That is how exactly Brad wants us to play.  Smart on a very team friendly cost controlled contract.  No way no way.  Sorry dude, defense does absolutely matter.

[Fierce1]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

Can you give a few examples of teams trading a strong rotation player on a rookie contract and getting good value?

You say the Celtics need a quality big man or a star player. How do you propose trading for either of those without significant matching salary? You're just bashing Brown for the sake of it at this stage

We all want the same thing as Celtic fans and that's for the Celts to win another championship.

Banner 18 was supposed to be won by Pierce, KG, and Ray.

Unfortunately that did not happen.

I'm not bashing brown, I just don't believe he's a special player.
Celtics are not going to win a championship with average or above average players.
What the Celts need is a quality big man or a star player.

For example, by January the Celts can already trade Theis.
So the Celts can offer Smart, Brown, and Theis for Bradley Beal.

Beal is the 2-way SG the Celts need.

Those saying Beal is not a special player are just biased.
Beal has proven that he can score in the regular season and in the playoffs.
He's also good on defense.
That's the SG the Celts need.

If the Celts go the big man route, Celts can package Brown, Smart, and Theis for Kevin Love.
Kevin Love was injured last season.
So Love needs to prove he's healthy this season.
By January or February, Love's trade value will either go up or go down, depending on his performance.

If the Celts want to play it safe, Celts can trade Brown for Sabonis and a filler to make salaries match.

Sabonis, just like Brown, has the potential to develop into a very good player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brown is bad, in fact, Jaylen is very good.
The problem is very good is not going to get us Banner 18.
What the Celts need is a player like Kawhi, Paul George, or Jimmy Butler.
Players that can score 20 per game and will want the ball in their hands in crunch time.

Now somehow Bradley Beal is the 'two-way' player than that Celtics need?  lol cmon man that is crazy.
Bradely Beal isn't a great def player, I wouldn't even call him a great 2 way player.
He is a great scorer.  But he is a really poor match with a def challenged Kemba.  And how will it go with Beal when he is sharing shots with Kemba, Tatum, Hayward?  You think that Brown had a problem handling a smaller role in the offense, see how that works out with Beal.

But haven't you said in so many other threads how bad the logjam with Brown, Tatum and Hayward all playing will make?  You have said that over and over again.  How is that going to work when you substitute Beal for Brown.  I will tell you, it will be worse.  Our overall Def isn't going to be better.

You are inventing this whole problem with Brown going into free agency when there isn't one.  Let the market determine how much Brown gets and then resign him.  Two way wings are in great demand, we need to keep Brown.

The logjam is solved by removing Smart and Brown for Beal.

Remember last season when only 6 players most of the time got to play in the last 5 minutes of the game?

Last season it was Kyrie, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, Hoford, and Morris getting minutes in crunch time.

Brown rarely played in the last 5 minutes of the game last season.
That's Brown's stats went down.
Brown went from 30 minutes per game, when Hayward was out in 2018, to 25-26 minutes per game when Hayward returned.

So the logjam will be solved if Brown and Smart are packaged for Beal.

Let's agree to disagree with Beal on defense.

Also, in today's NBA, defense is overrated.
The new freedom of movement rule is make NBA players soft.
Just look at what happened to Team USA at the FIBA tournament.
It's like USA players were shocked at how physical the FIBA players are.

Oh man no way I would trade Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown both for Beal.  To me that is completely crazy.
We would have barely done that to get Davis, an MVP level player, and you are going to trade them for Beal?  That is WAY too much.  Beal is not a good defender.  He just isn't.

I don't think Beal is a good fit with Kemba.  Beal took more shots than Kyrie last year so which one of those guys is gonna give up their shots?  Or maybe you want Tatum and Hayward down at 8-10 attempts per game?

You trade away our two best most versatile def players.  Both guys can guard 1-4.  That is how exactly Brad wants us to play.  Smart on a very team friendly cost controlled contract.  No way no way.  Sorry dude, defense does absolutely matter.

We had Smart and Jaylen from 2017 to 2019 and the Celts never made it to the Finals.

Celts always lacked the star power to match Lebron's teams.

It was only when Lebron had Varejao and Mo Williams as the supporting cast that the Celts of KG, Pierce, and Ray were able to beat the Cavs.

The Celtic teams from 2017 to 2018 could never beat Lebron and the Cavs in the playoffs.

Yes, it's true defense matters.
But having star power is more important.

Just look at what the Raptors did last season.
They just tweaked the roster by swapping DeRozan with Kawhi and it resulted in a championship.

Just look at what Smart, Brown, and Rozier did in Game 7 of the 2018 east finals.
https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2990992/type/nba/year/2018

Celts were one game away from the finals.

I've been a fan of the Celts since the Larry Bird days.
Every time the Celts won a championship, the Celts always had multiple star players.
That's also true in the 70s, 60s, and 50s.

Steve Bulpett reported that the Celts believe they're not on par with the elite teams in the NBA.
That's why we should expect the Celts to make another move.

Like I said, very good is just not enough to win a championship in the NBA.
The NBA is a star driven league.
Every year teams that win in the finals always have 2 or 3 star players.
GSW raised that standard by having 4 star players.

[Fierce1]

Ainge put all his eggs on the Anthony Davis basket and it didn't work.

AD didn't want to come to Boston.

Ainge could have traded Morris or Rozier or both to improve the team last season.
But Ainge didn't want to make any moves because he was all in on Anthony Davis.

My favorite Celtic player right now is Tatum.
But I didn't have a problem with including Tatum in a deal for AD because I know it would make the Celts better.

Right now if losing Jaylen Brown is such a big deal for most Celtic fans, that can only mean one thing, the Celts are not an elite team.

This current Celtics team is not a championship team.
Ainge has to make a move or moves to put this current Celtics team on the level as the Bucks and maybe the Sixers.

[blink]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

Can you give a few examples of teams trading a strong rotation player on a rookie contract and getting good value?

You say the Celtics need a quality big man or a star player. How do you propose trading for either of those without significant matching salary? You're just bashing Brown for the sake of it at this stage

We all want the same thing as Celtic fans and that's for the Celts to win another championship.

Banner 18 was supposed to be won by Pierce, KG, and Ray.

Unfortunately that did not happen.

I'm not bashing brown, I just don't believe he's a special player.
Celtics are not going to win a championship with average or above average players.
What the Celts need is a quality big man or a star player.

For example, by January the Celts can already trade Theis.
So the Celts can offer Smart, Brown, and Theis for Bradley Beal.

Beal is the 2-way SG the Celts need.

Those saying Beal is not a special player are just biased.
Beal has proven that he can score in the regular season and in the playoffs.
He's also good on defense.
That's the SG the Celts need.

If the Celts go the big man route, Celts can package Brown, Smart, and Theis for Kevin Love.
Kevin Love was injured last season.
So Love needs to prove he's healthy this season.
By January or February, Love's trade value will either go up or go down, depending on his performance.

If the Celts want to play it safe, Celts can trade Brown for Sabonis and a filler to make salaries match.

Sabonis, just like Brown, has the potential to develop into a very good player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brown is bad, in fact, Jaylen is very good.
The problem is very good is not going to get us Banner 18.
What the Celts need is a player like Kawhi, Paul George, or Jimmy Butler.
Players that can score 20 per game and will want the ball in their hands in crunch time.

Now somehow Bradley Beal is the 'two-way' player than that Celtics need?  lol cmon man that is crazy.
Bradely Beal isn't a great def player, I wouldn't even call him a great 2 way player.
He is a great scorer.  But he is a really poor match with a def challenged Kemba.  And how will it go with Beal when he is sharing shots with Kemba, Tatum, Hayward?  You think that Brown had a problem handling a smaller role in the offense, see how that works out with Beal.

But haven't you said in so many other threads how bad the logjam with Brown, Tatum and Hayward all playing will make?  You have said that over and over again.  How is that going to work when you substitute Beal for Brown.  I will tell you, it will be worse.  Our overall Def isn't going to be better.

You are inventing this whole problem with Brown going into free agency when there isn't one.  Let the market determine how much Brown gets and then resign him.  Two way wings are in great demand, we need to keep Brown.

The logjam is solved by removing Smart and Brown for Beal.

Remember last season when only 6 players most of the time got to play in the last 5 minutes of the game?

Last season it was Kyrie, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, Hoford, and Morris getting minutes in crunch time.

Brown rarely played in the last 5 minutes of the game last season.
That's Brown's stats went down.
Brown went from 30 minutes per game, when Hayward was out in 2018, to 25-26 minutes per game when Hayward returned.

So the logjam will be solved if Brown and Smart are packaged for Beal.

Let's agree to disagree with Beal on defense.

Also, in today's NBA, defense is overrated.
The new freedom of movement rule is make NBA players soft.
Just look at what happened to Team USA at the FIBA tournament.
It's like USA players were shocked at how physical the FIBA players are.

Oh man no way I would trade Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown both for Beal.  To me that is completely crazy.
We would have barely done that to get Davis, an MVP level player, and you are going to trade them for Beal?  That is WAY too much.  Beal is not a good defender.  He just isn't.

I don't think Beal is a good fit with Kemba.  Beal took more shots than Kyrie last year so which one of those guys is gonna give up their shots?  Or maybe you want Tatum and Hayward down at 8-10 attempts per game?

You trade away our two best most versatile def players.  Both guys can guard 1-4.  That is how exactly Brad wants us to play.  Smart on a very team friendly cost controlled contract.  No way no way.  Sorry dude, defense does absolutely matter.

We had Smart and Jaylen from 2017 to 2019 and the Celts never made it to the Finals.

Celts always lacked the star power to match Lebron's teams.

It was only when Lebron had Varejao and Mo Williams as the supporting cast that the Celts of KG, Pierce, and Ray were able to beat the Cavs.

The Celtic teams from 2017 to 2018 could never beat Lebron and the Cavs in the playoffs.

Yes, it's true defense matters.
But having star power is more important.

Just look at what the Raptors did last season.
They just tweaked the roster by swapping DeRozan with Kawhi and it resulted in a championship.

Just look at what Smart, Brown, and Rozier did in Game 7 of the 2018 east finals.
https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2990992/type/nba/year/2018

Celts were one game away from the finals.

I've been a fan of the Celts since the Larry Bird days.
Every time the Celts won a championship, the Celts always had multiple star players.
That's also true in the 70s, 60s, and 50s.

Steve Bulpett reported that the Celts believe they're not on par with the elite teams in the NBA.
That's why we should expect the Celts to make another move.

Like I said, very good is just not enough to win a championship in the NBA.
The NBA is a star driven league.
Every year teams that win in the finals always have 2 or 3 star players.
GSW raised that standard by having 4 star players.

So now the threshold for success for our young players is did they make it to the finals?  You are shifting your argument like the wind.  in 2017 jaylen was a rookie and didn't play that much, so you are blaming him and smart for not taking out Lebron?  Ridiculous.  Claiming that because the young guys came up short in ONE game 7 versus probably the greatest player ever that they should be tossed aside because they will never get any better.   Really short sighted.

Well exactly how many nba finals has Beal been in?  Zero.  He had a better supporting cast than Brown and Tatum ever did and he never made it.  Since he has never made it by now with a better overall team (he is in his 7th year) he obviously will never make it.  I mean that is your logic right?  He has made the all star game a couple of times, but he is no where near the level of a player like Kawai or Lebron, or even Davis.  He doesn't have that kind of impact. 

You are so desperate to get rid of brown you are fabricating these crazy trade ideas that don't make us better.

You think we are magically going to be contenders if we trade away our two best def players for Bradley Beal?  good luck with that.

[Fierce1]

Only way Brown is worth 23m per year is if he has a year like Siakam had with the Raptors last season.

23m per year for 13 or 14 points per game is way too much.

Just look at what happened to the Wiz after the Nets gave Otto Porter an offer sheet worth 106m for 4 years.
The Wiz were forced to match because they thought they had something special in Porter.
In the end the Wiz had a hard time trading Porter.

You just pretty much blew up your argument against signing Jaylen. The Wizards were able to move Porter basically as just a neutral salary dump, even after he failed to make significant improvement following signing his contract. Thats because there are always teams that need wings. So WORST case scenario is you eventually give up Jaylen for nothing. BEST case is he becomes an all star level guy and is well worth the contract. Sign me up.

You're missing the point.

Celts can get more value for Brown before Brown signs a big contract.

If Brown gets that big contract and Brown is just a 14 or 13 points per game guy, the Celts will not get anything significant for Brown.

Can you give a few examples of teams trading a strong rotation player on a rookie contract and getting good value?

You say the Celtics need a quality big man or a star player. How do you propose trading for either of those without significant matching salary? You're just bashing Brown for the sake of it at this stage

We all want the same thing as Celtic fans and that's for the Celts to win another championship.

Banner 18 was supposed to be won by Pierce, KG, and Ray.

Unfortunately that did not happen.

I'm not bashing brown, I just don't believe he's a special player.
Celtics are not going to win a championship with average or above average players.
What the Celts need is a quality big man or a star player.

For example, by January the Celts can already trade Theis.
So the Celts can offer Smart, Brown, and Theis for Bradley Beal.

Beal is the 2-way SG the Celts need.

Those saying Beal is not a special player are just biased.
Beal has proven that he can score in the regular season and in the playoffs.
He's also good on defense.
That's the SG the Celts need.

If the Celts go the big man route, Celts can package Brown, Smart, and Theis for Kevin Love.
Kevin Love was injured last season.
So Love needs to prove he's healthy this season.
By January or February, Love's trade value will either go up or go down, depending on his performance.

If the Celts want to play it safe, Celts can trade Brown for Sabonis and a filler to make salaries match.

Sabonis, just like Brown, has the potential to develop into a very good player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brown is bad, in fact, Jaylen is very good.
The problem is very good is not going to get us Banner 18.
What the Celts need is a player like Kawhi, Paul George, or Jimmy Butler.
Players that can score 20 per game and will want the ball in their hands in crunch time.

Now somehow Bradley Beal is the 'two-way' player than that Celtics need?  lol cmon man that is crazy.
Bradely Beal isn't a great def player, I wouldn't even call him a great 2 way player.
He is a great scorer.  But he is a really poor match with a def challenged Kemba.  And how will it go with Beal when he is sharing shots with Kemba, Tatum, Hayward?  You think that Brown had a problem handling a smaller role in the offense, see how that works out with Beal.

But haven't you said in so many other threads how bad the logjam with Brown, Tatum and Hayward all playing will make?  You have said that over and over again.  How is that going to work when you substitute Beal for Brown.  I will tell you, it will be worse.  Our overall Def isn't going to be better.

You are inventing this whole problem with Brown going into free agency when there isn't one.  Let the market determine how much Brown gets and then resign him.  Two way wings are in great demand, we need to keep Brown.

The logjam is solved by removing Smart and Brown for Beal.

Remember last season when only 6 players most of the time got to play in the last 5 minutes of the game?

Last season it was Kyrie, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, Hoford, and Morris getting minutes in crunch time.

Brown rarely played in the last 5 minutes of the game last season.
That's Brown's stats went down.
Brown went from 30 minutes per game, when Hayward was out in 2018, to 25-26 minutes per game when Hayward returned.

So the logjam will be solved if Brown and Smart are packaged for Beal.

Let's agree to disagree with Beal on defense.

Also, in today's NBA, defense is overrated.
The new freedom of movement rule is make NBA players soft.
Just look at what happened to Team USA at the FIBA tournament.
It's like USA players were shocked at how physical the FIBA players are.

Oh man no way I would trade Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown both for Beal.  To me that is completely crazy.
We would have barely done that to get Davis, an MVP level player, and you are going to trade them for Beal?  That is WAY too much.  Beal is not a good defender.  He just isn't.

I don't think Beal is a good fit with Kemba.  Beal took more shots than Kyrie last year so which one of those guys is gonna give up their shots?  Or maybe you want Tatum and Hayward down at 8-10 attempts per game?

You trade away our two best most versatile def players.  Both guys can guard 1-4.  That is how exactly Brad wants us to play.  Smart on a very team friendly cost controlled contract.  No way no way.  Sorry dude, defense does absolutely matter.

We had Smart and Jaylen from 2017 to 2019 and the Celts never made it to the Finals.

Celts always lacked the star power to match Lebron's teams.

It was only when Lebron had Varejao and Mo Williams as the supporting cast that the Celts of KG, Pierce, and Ray were able to beat the Cavs.

The Celtic teams from 2017 to 2018 could never beat Lebron and the Cavs in the playoffs.

Yes, it's true defense matters.
But having star power is more important.

Just look at what the Raptors did last season.
They just tweaked the roster by swapping DeRozan with Kawhi and it resulted in a championship.

Just look at what Smart, Brown, and Rozier did in Game 7 of the 2018 east finals.
https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2990992/type/nba/year/2018

Celts were one game away from the finals.

I've been a fan of the Celts since the Larry Bird days.
Every time the Celts won a championship, the Celts always had multiple star players.
That's also true in the 70s, 60s, and 50s.

Steve Bulpett reported that the Celts believe they're not on par with the elite teams in the NBA.
That's why we should expect the Celts to make another move.

Like I said, very good is just not enough to win a championship in the NBA.
The NBA is a star driven league.
Every year teams that win in the finals always have 2 or 3 star players.
GSW raised that standard by having 4 star players.

So now the threshold for success for our young players is did they make it to the finals?  You are shifting your argument like the wind.  in 2017 jaylen was a rookie and didn't play that much, so you are blaming him and smart for not taking out Lebron?  Ridiculous.  Claiming that because the young guys came up short in ONE game 7 versus probably the greatest player ever that they should be tossed aside because they will never get any better.   Really short sighted.

Well exactly how many nba finals has Beal been in?  Zero.  He had a better supporting cast than Brown and Tatum ever did and he never made it.  Since he has never made it by now with a better overall team (he is in his 7th year) he obviously will never make it.  I mean that is your logic right?  He has made the all star game a couple of times, but he is no where near the level of a player like Kawai or Lebron, or even Davis.  He doesn't have that kind of impact. 

You are so desperate to get rid of brown you are fabricating these crazy trade ideas that don't make us better.

You think we are magically going to be contenders if we trade away our two best def players for Bradley Beal?  good luck with that.

Ray Allen was never in the Finals until he became a part of the new Big 3 in Boston.

Jaylen and Smart are complementary players, not star players.

Celts already have a lot of complementary players.
Star players are what the Celts are lacking.

In Game 7 of that 2018 east finals, Jayson Tatum had 25 points.
He was the only one who played well in that huge Game 7.

The star player doesn't have to be Bradley Beal.
This season there could be another star player available.
Bradley Beal is just one example.

The main point is the Celts still need an upgrade.