CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rondohondo on December 10, 2012, 02:11:54 PM
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The Boston Celtics have recalled center Fab Melo from their NBA Development League affiliate, the Maine Red Claws.
Melo, a 7’0” center, averaged 6.8 points, 5.8 rebounds and 2.2 blocks in 23.4 minutes over five games for the Red Claws. Melo recorded a high of 14 points against the Fort Wayne Mad Ants on November 25 and recorded a high of 11 rebounds against the Los Angeles D-Fenders on November 30.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/224931/Celtics_Recall_Fab_Melo_From_D_League
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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.
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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.
Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday. He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.
Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday. He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
Makes sense to me... Since when has Wilcox been preforming poorly? He missed a few games cause of sickness and when he got healthy again he went right back to doing what hes been doing for us all season.
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6.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 2.2 blk in 24 mpg up in Maine for what its worth.
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I'm really glad we took him. I see his ceiling as a 7 foot Perk and there was no one else I would've wanted at the 23rd pick.
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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.
Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday. He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
Makes sense to me... Since when has Wilcox been preforming poorly? He missed a few games cause of sickness and when he got healthy again he went right back to doing what hes been doing for us all season.
Since forever? Right now, outside of the wide-open dunk, he doesn't do anythign at a rotation-caliber NBA level: doesn't have any offensive moves, is poor defensively, is slow on rotations, doesn't really rebound, doesn't block shots.
Sadly, his only competition, Collins, doesn't do _anything_ worthy of a rotation spot, so Wilcox gets the minutes.
It may well be the case that Melo will be sent back down right away, but we _do_ need all the help we can get at the position right now. Part of this may be Wilcox playing out of position, or the fact he's coming off of a heart surgery, so I'm not going to hold his performance against him. But the situation going forward is not sustainable with him as the primary C backup.
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Hope he plays.
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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.
But he is awesome at wide open dunks ;)
Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday. He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
Makes sense to me... Since when has Wilcox been preforming poorly? He missed a few games cause of sickness and when he got healthy again he went right back to doing what hes been doing for us all season.
Since forever? Right now, outside of the wide-open dunk, he doesn't do anythign at a rotation-caliber NBA level: doesn't have any offensive moves, is poor defensively, is slow on rotations, doesn't really rebound, doesn't block shots.
Sadly, his only competition, Collins, doesn't do _anything_ worthy of a rotation spot, so Wilcox gets the minutes.
It may well be the case that Melo will be sent back down right away, but we _do_ need all the help we can get at the position right now. Part of this may be Wilcox playing out of position, or the fact he's coming off of a heart surgery, so I'm not going to hold his performance against him. But the situation going forward is not sustainable with him as the primary C backup.
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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.
Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday. He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
Makes sense to me... Since when has Wilcox been preforming poorly? He missed a few games cause of sickness and when he got healthy again he went right back to doing what hes been doing for us all season.
Since forever? Right now, outside of the wide-open dunk, he doesn't do anythign at a rotation-caliber NBA level: doesn't have any offensive moves, is poor defensively, is slow on rotations, doesn't really rebound, doesn't block shots.
Sadly, his only competition, Collins, doesn't do _anything_ worthy of a rotation spot, so Wilcox gets the minutes.
It may well be the case that Melo will be sent back down right away, but we _do_ need all the help we can get at the position right now. Part of this may be Wilcox playing out of position, or the fact he's coming off of a heart surgery, so I'm not going to hold his performance against him. But the situation going forward is not sustainable with him as the primary C backup.
While I agree that Wilcox hasn't been great (although he hasn't been that bad either), I don't think there is any chance Doc sees Melo as a way to solve that problem. Melo had absolutely no clue on the rotations or the offensive system when he played earlier in the year, and I highly doubt that has changed.
And while I don't buy the whole "Doc hates rookies" thing, I do think there is plenty of evidence that Doc would rather stick flaming pencils in his eyes, than put a rookie who is completely lost on defensive rotations (and yes, there is a HUGE difference from Sully thinking through the rotations earlier in the year, and being completely lost, like Melo) on the floor in a real game.
I am pretty sure Doc feels doing that hurts the team, and the development of the player.
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While I agree that Wilcox hasn't been great (although he hasn't been that bad either), I don't think there is any chance Doc sees Melo as a way to solve that problem. Melo had absolutely no clue on the rotations or the offensive system when he played earlier in the year, and I highly doubt that has changed.
And while I don't buy the whole "Doc hates rookies" thing, I do think there is plenty of evidence that Doc would rather stick flaming pencils in his eyes, than put a rookie who is completely lost on defensive rotations (and yes, there is a HUGE difference from Sully thinking through the rotations earlier in the year, and being completely lost, like Melo) on the floor in a real game.
I am pretty sure Doc feels doing that hurts the team, and the development of the player.
Not sure I'd classify Wilcox as "not great, but not bad". I thought he was pretty bad recently. As a matter of fact, so bad that even with limited understanding of rotation, Melo may be an upgrade simply because he's an athletic seven footer who takes charges and blocks shots.
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While I agree that Wilcox hasn't been great (although he hasn't been that bad either), I don't think there is any chance Doc sees Melo as a way to solve that problem. Melo had absolutely no clue on the rotations or the offensive system when he played earlier in the year, and I highly doubt that has changed.
And while I don't buy the whole "Doc hates rookies" thing, I do think there is plenty of evidence that Doc would rather stick flaming pencils in his eyes, than put a rookie who is completely lost on defensive rotations (and yes, there is a HUGE difference from Sully thinking through the rotations earlier in the year, and being completely lost, like Melo) on the floor in a real game.
I am pretty sure Doc feels doing that hurts the team, and the development of the player.
Not sure I'd classify Wilcox as "not great, but not bad". I thought he was pretty bad recently. As a matter of fact, so bad that even with limited understanding of rotation, Melo may be an upgrade simply because he's an athletic seven footer who takes charges and blocks shots.
Well, we will just have to agree to disagree then. Because from everything I have seen, Wilcox has been a pretty average 8th or 9th man, while Melo has been a non-roster quality NBA player, whose only value is in his future potential.
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While I agree that Wilcox hasn't been great (although he hasn't been that bad either), I don't think there is any chance Doc sees Melo as a way to solve that problem. Melo had absolutely no clue on the rotations or the offensive system when he played earlier in the year, and I highly doubt that has changed.
And while I don't buy the whole "Doc hates rookies" thing, I do think there is plenty of evidence that Doc would rather stick flaming pencils in his eyes, than put a rookie who is completely lost on defensive rotations (and yes, there is a HUGE difference from Sully thinking through the rotations earlier in the year, and being completely lost, like Melo) on the floor in a real game.
I am pretty sure Doc feels doing that hurts the team, and the development of the player.
Not sure I'd classify Wilcox as "not great, but not bad". I thought he was pretty bad recently. As a matter of fact, so bad that even with limited understanding of rotation, Melo may be an upgrade simply because he's an athletic seven footer who takes charges and blocks shots.
You're being quite liberal with what "recently" means. He's been great in the last 3 games at the very least.
He plays his role quite well, and makes quite good on his opportunities, 70%+ FG I won't cry too much about it on his limited opportunities.
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You're being quite liberal with what "recently" means. He's been great in the last 3 games at the very least.
He plays his role quite well, and makes quite good on his opportunities, 70%+ FG I won't cry too much about it on his limited opportunities.
I don't know, all I see is consistenly late rotations, getting pushed around on defense, and no rebounding to speak of. And this _is_ in the last three games. 10 rebounds and 9 fouls for that stretch is just bad (for what it's worth, it's been like that all season: 43 and 41, respectively).
I am particularly unimpressed by the shooting percentage. The guy takes 2 and a half shots per game, on average, and the overwhelming majority of these are wide open dunks.
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You're being quite liberal with what "recently" means. He's been great in the last 3 games at the very least.
He plays his role quite well, and makes quite good on his opportunities, 70%+ FG I won't cry too much about it on his limited opportunities.
I don't know, all I see is consistenly late rotations, getting pushed around on defense, and no rebounding to speak of. And this _is_ in the last three games. 10 rebounds and 9 fouls for that stretch is just bad (for what it's worth, it's been like that all season: 43 and 41, respectively).
I am particularly unimpressed by the shooting percentage. The guy takes 2 and a half shots per game, on average, and the overwhelming majority of these are wide open dunks.
I'm just saying that he's been great in the role he plays. I certainly see he needs to improve his rotations, but I haven't seen them being as egrogious as you do. I'll pay a little more attention.
But again, he has quite the limited role, he's not hurting you on offense, and I don't think he's hurting you that much on defense either, though certainly could be better.
If anything, I'd like to see him rebound better, but I think calling him playing poorly is quite the stretch. For that matter, I think he fits really well when he's playing with our starters. His problems are more noticeable when you have also Sully/Bass on the floor since they all have their defensive problems.
Of all the bigs sans Garnett, he's been the most consistent for us on both sides of the floor, but he doesn't bring much, he just fits and enables us to have something that resembles a competent rotation among our bigs.
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You're being quite liberal with what "recently" means. He's been great in the last 3 games at the very least.
He plays his role quite well, and makes quite good on his opportunities, 70%+ FG I won't cry too much about it on his limited opportunities.
I don't know, all I see is consistenly late rotations, getting pushed around on defense, and no rebounding to speak of. And this _is_ in the last three games. 10 rebounds and 9 fouls for that stretch is just bad (for what it's worth, it's been like that all season: 43 and 41, respectively).
I am particularly unimpressed by the shooting percentage. The guy takes 2 and a half shots per game, on average, and the overwhelming majority of these are wide open dunks.
I'm very impressed by Chris Wilcox's shooting percentage. It is true that a majority of his baskets are on wide open dunks, but he puts himself in a position to get those wide open dunks through his ability to run the floor, not just fast, but smart as well. He's agile and he knows when to cut to the rim and has good timing on the pick and lob.
Jason Collins, Darko Milicic, or Fab Melo wouldn't be able to finish on those dunks. Many bigs are like bulls in a china shop trying to carve space through the lane off picks. Not Chris. He knows how to put himself in a position to finish and how to finish.
His rebounding isn't great, but I've definitely seen improvement on his pick and roll and help defense.
My conclusion: Chris Wilcox is far from terrible. On the contrary, he's giving this team some very productive play, and some much needed size and athleticism off the bench.
I just want to add that he's got a ridiculously high offensive rating of 126 and a very respectable defensive rating of 104. I know full well that those numbers aren't necessarily completely indicative of what a player brings to the court, but, on the other hand, it's hard to say that he hurts the team when he's out there when considering those numbers.
A common mantra seems to be that we completely fall apart when KG leaves the floor. Often times when KG leaves the floor, Chris Wilcox is the guy replacing him, though. Considering those efficiency numbers when Chris is on the court, it would seem that he's doing a nice job filling his role.
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You're being quite liberal with what "recently" means. He's been great in the last 3 games at the very least.
He plays his role quite well, and makes quite good on his opportunities, 70%+ FG I won't cry too much about it on his limited opportunities.
I don't know, all I see is consistenly late rotations, getting pushed around on defense, and no rebounding to speak of. And this _is_ in the last three games. 10 rebounds and 9 fouls for that stretch is just bad (for what it's worth, it's been like that all season: 43 and 41, respectively).
I am particularly unimpressed by the shooting percentage. The guy takes 2 and a half shots per game, on average, and the overwhelming majority of these are wide open dunks.
I'm just saying that he's been great in the role he plays. I certainly see he needs to improve his rotations, but I haven't seen them being as egrogious as you do. I'll pay a little more attention.
But again, he has quite the limited role, he's not hurting you on offense, and I don't think he's hurting you that much on defense either, though certainly could be better.
If anything, I'd like to see him rebound better, but I think calling him playing poorly is quite the stretch. For that matter, I think he fits really well when he's playing with our starters. His problems are more noticeable when you have also Sully/Bass on the floor since they all have their defensive problems.
Of all the bigs sans Garnett, he's been the most consistent for us on both sides of the floor, but he doesn't bring much, he just fits and enables us to have something that resembles a competent rotation among our bigs.
Maybe I'm exaggerating. But at some point, I caught myself thinking, "Wow, you can't keep Wilcox on the floor when Rondo is off, because there's noone to give him wide open bunnies, and he's such a liability in all other phases of the game". In any case, he strikes me as the obvious upgrade slot in our lineup. We'll see.
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Jason Collins, Darko Milicic, or Fab Melo wouldn't be able to finish on those dunks. Many bigs are like bulls in a china shop trying to carve space through the lane off picks. Not Chris. He knows how to put himself in a position to finish and how to finish.
You don't need to "carve space" when there's noone within 5 feet of you. And that's how most of the scoring comes from Chris Wilcox.
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Wilcox has been fine if only for his running the floor and chemistry with rondo catching/finishing around the rim....don't know what you're expecting from him but I highly highly doubt fab does a thing to take wilcoxs job
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I don't expect Doc to play Fab Melo.
I'd like to see Fab Melo get a run of games (10-15 games of around 10mpg) but I have no complaints if Fab Melo doesn't get it. He is very raw.
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Maybe I'm exaggerating. But at some point, I caught myself thinking, "Wow, you can't keep Wilcox on the floor when Rondo is off, because there's noone to give him wide open bunnies, and he's such a liability in all other phases of the game". In any case, he strikes me as the obvious upgrade slot in our lineup. We'll see.
Oh yeah, he is absolutely the obvious upgrade spot (well, Bass is the obvious upgrade spot, but you would hope you could get someone who could then push Wilcox out of the rotation). But you don't upgrade with a raw rookie.
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Jason Collins, Darko Milicic, or Fab Melo wouldn't be able to finish on those dunks. Many bigs are like bulls in a china shop trying to carve space through the lane off picks. Not Chris. He knows how to put himself in a position to finish and how to finish.
You don't need to "carve space" when there's noone within 5 feet of you. And that's how most of the scoring comes from Chris Wilcox.
I think you think that being a good floor runner, pick and roller, and at the rim finisher at 6'11" is easier than it actually is. What Chris Wilcox does well is a skill that not many NBA bigs can do as well as him.
I tend to agree that he's at his best when he has Rondo with him, but, luckily, he has Rondo with him most of the time.
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Maybe I'm exaggerating. But at some point, I caught myself thinking, "Wow, you can't keep Wilcox on the floor when Rondo is off, because there's noone to give him wide open bunnies, and he's such a liability in all other phases of the game". In any case, he strikes me as the obvious upgrade slot in our lineup. We'll see.
Oh yeah, he is absolutely the obvious upgrade spot (well, Bass is the obvious upgrade spot, but you would hope you could get someone who could then push Wilcox out of the rotation). But you don't upgrade with a raw rookie.
Well, no, Garnett is the obivious upgrade spot if you can get Bill Russell in his prime :P
But of the four rotation bigs, I see Wilcox as the only one who hurts your team more than he helps. Sure, if you can get Kevin Love to start in Bass' spot, be my guest -- but I don't think that's the point here.
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Jason Collins, Darko Milicic, or Fab Melo wouldn't be able to finish on those dunks. Many bigs are like bulls in a china shop trying to carve space through the lane off picks. Not Chris. He knows how to put himself in a position to finish and how to finish.
You don't need to "carve space" when there's noone within 5 feet of you. And that's how most of the scoring comes from Chris Wilcox.
I think you think that being a good floor runner, pick and roller, and at the rim finisher at 6'11" is easier than it actually is. What Chris Wilcox does well is a skill that not many NBA bigs can do as well as him.
I tend to agree that he's at his best when he has Rondo with him, but, luckily, he has Rondo with him most of the time.
Chris Wilcox is not 6'11. He is quite liberally listed at 6'10, and is in reality closer to 6'9 (he measured 6'8.25 barefoot, 6'9.5 with shoes in predraft camp).
So he's basically the size of Shane Battier, who is considered a combo forward. If he were 6'11, we wouldn't be needing a real backup C.
Also, I appreciate full well how difficult it may be to run the floor at his size. But you can't convince me that two dunks are enough to warrant playing time for a center that doesn't do anything else reasonably well.
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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.
Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday. He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
Makes sense to me... Since when has Wilcox been preforming poorly? He missed a few games cause of sickness and when he got healthy again he went right back to doing what hes been doing for us all season.
Since forever? Right now, outside of the wide-open dunk, he doesn't do anythign at a rotation-caliber NBA level: doesn't have any offensive moves, is poor defensively, is slow on rotations, doesn't really rebound, doesn't block shots.
Sadly, his only competition, Collins, doesn't do _anything_ worthy of a rotation spot, so Wilcox gets the minutes.
It may well be the case that Melo will be sent back down right away, but we _do_ need all the help we can get at the position right now. Part of this may be Wilcox playing out of position, or the fact he's coming off of a heart surgery, so I'm not going to hold his performance against him. But the situation going forward is not sustainable with him as the primary C backup.
Whatever you think of his individual skills, Wilcox seems to fill his role of helping to stem the tide with KG on the bench. On a per48 minute basis, we're a -9.4 when KG's been on the bench, a total of 400 minutes. Wilcox has played 250 of those minutes, and we're a -0.8 or so per game in that time. So we play great when KG's in, we play almost even when KG's out but Wilcox is in, and we get killed when both are out.
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Whatever you think of his individual skills, Wilcox seems to fill his role of helping to stem the tide with KG on the bench. On a per48 minute basis, we're a -9.4 when KG's been on the bench, a total of 400 minutes. Wilcox has played 250 of those minutes, and we're a -0.8 or so per game in that time. So we play great when KG's in, we play almost even when KG's out but Wilcox is in, and we get killed when both are out.
Yes, I've already stipulated he's the best option on our team for the backup center slot. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement. And yes, I'm not surprised we get killed when the froncourt consists of Bass/Collins, Bass/Sullinger, or Sullinger/Collins.
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You're being quite liberal with what "recently" means. He's been great in the last 3 games at the very least.
He plays his role quite well, and makes quite good on his opportunities, 70%+ FG I won't cry too much about it on his limited opportunities.
I don't know, all I see is consistenly late rotations, getting pushed around on defense, and no rebounding to speak of. And this _is_ in the last three games. 10 rebounds and 9 fouls for that stretch is just bad (for what it's worth, it's been like that all season: 43 and 41, respectively).
I am particularly unimpressed by the shooting percentage. The guy takes 2 and a half shots per game, on average, and the overwhelming majority of these are wide open dunks.
I'm just saying that he's been great in the role he plays. I certainly see he needs to improve his rotations, but I haven't seen them being as egrogious as you do. I'll pay a little more attention.
But again, he has quite the limited role, he's not hurting you on offense, and I don't think he's hurting you that much on defense either, though certainly could be better.
If anything, I'd like to see him rebound better, but I think calling him playing poorly is quite the stretch. For that matter, I think he fits really well when he's playing with our starters. His problems are more noticeable when you have also Sully/Bass on the floor since they all have their defensive problems.
Of all the bigs sans Garnett, he's been the most consistent for us on both sides of the floor, but he doesn't bring much, he just fits and enables us to have something that resembles a competent rotation among our bigs.
Maybe I'm exaggerating. But at some point, I caught myself thinking, "Wow, you can't keep Wilcox on the floor when Rondo is off, because there's noone to give him wide open bunnies, and he's such a liability in all other phases of the game". In any case, he strikes me as the obvious upgrade slot in our lineup. We'll see.
He also does well I feel playing off Pierce. That said, he is indeed the slot for upgrade, but I don't see it as a cause of poor play, just merely that we need someone who can play center at better capacity. Whatever I may feel, Wilcox is better suited as a PF.
Don't know what that would mean for Bass, and Sully if we indeed find that big man upgrade.
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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.
Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday. He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
I agree with Chris. Wilcox looks to me to be doing well with his recuperation, as does Jeff Green...getting stronger all the time. I don't think Melo was brought back as "punishment," a "scare tactic," or even to potentially stay with the main club...simply to get him some practice time and let him bond a little with the main team during these few off days for both.
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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.
Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday. He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
I agree with Chris. Wilcox looks to me to be doing well with his recuperation, as does Jeff Green...getting stronger all the time. I don't think Melo was brought back as "punishment," a "scare tactic," or even to potentially stay with the main club...simply to get him some practice time and let him bond a little with the main team during these few off days for both.
I think they brought him up because it's a good chance to give him a long look. But if he shows even a rudimentary capability to participate in team defense, he may not be going back.
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Celtics must need someone to pass out water to other team mates is only reason they recall Fab
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Just hope he doesnt spill the water or gatorade. Dont want KG, PP, or anyone else slip and fall
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Wilcox for all his bad defensive play has managed to make enough offensive plays to be a net 0 for this team. Which I'll take any time KG isn't on the court, any time at all. Can he sustain that? For the regular season probably, but he does need to get some more boards too.
Playoffs? That's when things will get dicey for him.
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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.
Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday. He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
I agree with Chris. Wilcox looks to me to be doing well with his recuperation, as does Jeff Green...getting stronger all the time. I don't think Melo was brought back as "punishment," a "scare tactic," or even to potentially stay with the main club...simply to get him some practice time and let him bond a little with the main team during these few off days for both.
I think they brought him up because it's a good chance to give him a long look. But if he shows even a rudimentary capability to participate in team defense, he may not be going back.
I would love to bet on this.
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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.
Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday. He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
I agree with Chris. Wilcox looks to me to be doing well with his recuperation, as does Jeff Green...getting stronger all the time. I don't think Melo was brought back as "punishment," a "scare tactic," or even to potentially stay with the main club...simply to get him some practice time and let him bond a little with the main team during these few off days for both.
I think they brought him up because it's a good chance to give him a long look. But if he shows even a rudimentary capability to participate in team defense, he may not be going back.
I would love to bet on this.
I'm sure Vegas can give you odds.
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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.
Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday. He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
I agree with Chris. Wilcox looks to me to be doing well with his recuperation, as does Jeff Green...getting stronger all the time. I don't think Melo was brought back as "punishment," a "scare tactic," or even to potentially stay with the main club...simply to get him some practice time and let him bond a little with the main team during these few off days for both.
I think they brought him up because it's a good chance to give him a long look. But if he shows even a rudimentary capability to participate in team defense, he may not be going back.
I would love to bet on this.
I'm sure Vegas can give you odds.
The problem is, if I bet in Vegas, I would probably have to put up $500 to win $1 if he goes back to Maine...since just about everyone knows that is what they are doing.
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I'd put money Fab is back to watch the action during the 3 day layoff, seeing as Fab has been injured the last 2 Maine games.
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I am a big Melo fan...love his length, movement, and willingness to learn. I would also love it if he has progressed fast enough to join the club. I have said from the beginning that I think he will be getting minutes by the end of the year. (How's that for fence sitting? ;) )
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You're being quite liberal with what "recently" means. He's been great in the last 3 games at the very least.
He plays his role quite well, and makes quite good on his opportunities, 70%+ FG I won't cry too much about it on his limited opportunities.
I don't know, all I see is consistenly late rotations, getting pushed around on defense, and no rebounding to speak of. And this _is_ in the last three games. 10 rebounds and 9 fouls for that stretch is just bad (for what it's worth, it's been like that all season: 43 and 41, respectively).
I am particularly unimpressed by the shooting percentage. The guy takes 2 and a half shots per game, on average, and the overwhelming majority of these are wide open dunks.
I'm just saying that he's been great in the role he plays. I certainly see he needs to improve his rotations, but I haven't seen them being as egrogious as you do. I'll pay a little more attention.
But again, he has quite the limited role, he's not hurting you on offense, and I don't think he's hurting you that much on defense either, though certainly could be better.
If anything, I'd like to see him rebound better, but I think calling him playing poorly is quite the stretch. For that matter, I think he fits really well when he's playing with our starters. His problems are more noticeable when you have also Sully/Bass on the floor since they all have their defensive problems.
Of all the bigs sans Garnett, he's been the most consistent for us on both sides of the floor, but he doesn't bring much, he just fits and enables us to have something that resembles a competent rotation among our bigs.
Maybe I'm exaggerating. But at some point, I caught myself thinking, "Wow, you can't keep Wilcox on the floor when Rondo is off, because there's noone to give him wide open bunnies, and he's such a liability in all other phases of the game". In any case, he strikes me as the obvious upgrade slot in our lineup. We'll see.
Jeez, what are you expecting from him? To be Shaq? He is a very good F-C for a 8th/9th player on a contending team. He fills his role excellently and does nothing more or less than expected of him. He catches dunks, hustles and brings speed, athleticism and energy to the team on the court.
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Fab Melo's Back!!! What! It's over now. He's obviously worked out all the kinks in his game now. Has great range now, out till about twenty two feet. His hands, are tremendous, similar to Moses Malone's. And he said he's been watching a lot of Mchale and Olajuwon highlights, so he's got all there moves now.
This guy is going to be special. He's a quick study.
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I love how some people are copmletely dismissing the idea that Fab Melo could actually provide some useful minutes this year.
Anyone every heard of Greg Stiemsma?
Try and argue against that without saying Stiemsma has been playing longer (5 min a game for Wisconsin) or that he was a former D league DPOY (LOL!)
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Jeez, what are you expecting from him? To be Shaq? He is a very good F-C for a 8th/9th player on a contending team. He fills his role excellently and does nothing more or less than expected of him. He catches dunks, hustles and brings speed, athleticism and energy to the team on the court.
I expect him not to be a liability in all phases of the game that are not a wide open dunk. He doesn't have to be Shaq, he can just be Glen Davis or Leon Powe. But he isn't.
He's not "very good" as an 8th/9th player. As a matter of fact, it's probably a stretch to call him mediocre. Someone like Taj Gibson on the Bulls, Rasheed Wallace on the Knicks, or Spencer Hawes on the 76ers is a good 8th/9th player.
Wilcox is giving you the typical "10th guy to borderline DNP" type of performance.The problem is, we cannot afford this, mostly because he's the primary backup of a guy that's playing 28 minutes per contest.
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He catches dunks, hustles and brings speed, athleticism and energy to the team on the court.
Are you from Syracuse because his stats do not reflect this nor does his play although I wish he did those things and wish him well.
Anyone every heard of Greg Stiemsma?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/s/stiemgr01d.html
http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/fab_melo/
I have heard of him and guess what he has better stats than Melo in the D league. Bet you would not have guessed that. Much better rebounding, PPG and blocks than Melo.
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He catches dunks, hustles and brings speed, athleticism and energy to the team on the court.
Are you from Syracuse because his stats do not reflect this nor does his play although I wish he did those things and wish him well.
Anyone every heard of Greg Stiemsma?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/s/stiemgr01d.html
http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/fab_melo/
I have heard of him and guess what he has better stats than Melo in the D league. Bet you would not have guessed that. Much better rebounding, PPG and blocks than Melo.
As pointless it is to discuss a 5-game sample, it needs to be pointed out that per-36, they're pretty much the same guy.
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He catches dunks, hustles and brings speed, athleticism and energy to the team on the court.
Are you from Syracuse because his stats do not reflect this nor does his play although I wish he did those things and wish him well.
Anyone every heard of Greg Stiemsma?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/s/stiemgr01d.html
http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/fab_melo/
I have heard of him and guess what he has better stats than Melo in the D league. Bet you would not have guessed that. Much better rebounding, PPG and blocks than Melo.
Steimsma was pretty well seasoned when he was in the D-league. Apples and oranges in the sense that Melo is becoming a player while Steimsma was hoping that his ceiling would be enough. Steimsma is a servicable 5-15 minutes guy -- unlikely to get much better than that. Melo has an unknown ceiling (not to be confused with an unlimited ceiling).
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He catches dunks, hustles and brings speed, athleticism and energy to the team on the court.
Are you from Syracuse because his stats do not reflect this nor does his play although I wish he did those things and wish him well.
Anyone every heard of Greg Stiemsma?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/s/stiemgr01d.html
http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/fab_melo/
I have heard of him and guess what he has better stats than Melo in the D league. Bet you would not have guessed that. Much better rebounding, PPG and blocks than Melo.
Just saying it's not that far-fetched to imagine Fab being able to get 10 min a game by the end of the season.
My god those Stiemsma stats are eye popping :o
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He catches dunks, hustles and brings speed, athleticism and energy to the team on the court.
Are you from Syracuse because his stats do not reflect this nor does his play although I wish he did those things and wish him well.
Anyone every heard of Greg Stiemsma?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/s/stiemgr01d.html
http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/fab_melo/
I have heard of him and guess what he has better stats than Melo in the D league. Bet you would not have guessed that. Much better rebounding, PPG and blocks than Melo.
Steimsma was pretty well seasoned when he was in the D-league. Apples and oranges in the sense that Melo is becoming a player while Steimsma was hoping that his ceiling would be enough. Steimsma is a servicable 5-15 minutes guy -- unlikely to get much better than that. Melo has an unknown ceiling (not to be confused with an unlimited ceiling).
Yeah i understand that. My point is we threw pretty much an unknown guy, into the mix for 10 minutes a game and a produced at a respectable rate for what he was.
No reason to think Fab is incapable of playing some decent defense and a couple easy buckets from Rondo 10 minutes a game.
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Yeah i understand that. My point is we threw pretty much an unknown guy, into the mix for 10 minutes a game and a produced at a respectable rate for what he was.
No reason to think Fab is incapable of playing some decent defense and a couple easy buckets from Rondo 10 minutes a game.
Precisely my point. Let's hope that the game has slowed down for him at least to the level at which he's mediocre in team defense. Shot blocking and charge taking will do the rest.
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Jeez, what are you expecting from him? To be Shaq? He is a very good F-C for a 8th/9th player on a contending team. He fills his role excellently and does nothing more or less than expected of him. He catches dunks, hustles and brings speed, athleticism and energy to the team on the court.
I expect him not to be a liability in all phases of the game that are not a wide open dunk. He doesn't have to be Shaq, he can just be Glen Davis or Leon Powe. But he isn't.
He's not "very good" as an 8th/9th player. As a matter of fact, it's probably a stretch to call him mediocre. Someone like Taj Gibson on the Bulls, Rasheed Wallace on the Knicks, or Spencer Hawes on the 76ers is a good 8th/9th player.
Wilcox is giving you the typical "10th guy to borderline DNP" type of performance.The problem is, we cannot afford this, mostly because he's the primary backup of a guy that's playing 28 minutes per contest.
I hate to admit it (because I really like Wilcox), but I think Kozlodev may be correct. I do think Wilcox is a decent 10-15 minutes guy, but I think the back-up 5 is a big need for improvement. Starting 4 and back-up 5 are my top choices for upgrade. I think Sully should get a shot at the starting 4. Melo isn't the answer at back-up 5. I think Wilcox would be great in spot minutes, match-up situations (with Rondo) and GREAT insurance for a short-term injury. But I'd like someone better especially given KG's minutes limitations.
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I want him to be able to succeed and contribute it could help us, I just don't think he is ready at this point.
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If Fab Melo can come to Boston and be more of a positive on the floor than Chris Wilcox, I'm 100% for that. I'm generally an optimist, but I don't see that happening.
I happen to like what Chris Wilcox brings to the team, though. I've wanted to see a big who runs the floor and finishes well to run with Rondo for quite some time. Wilcox fits that bill.
From what I've seen he's also a better defender than many are giving him credit for. He's not a physical guy, but he moves well and can fill the lane and cover ground.
Anyway, let's see what Melo can do. Don't be too disappointed, though, if the young Brazilian doesn't get any minutes with the A squad, folks.
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ast time I checked the Off Ratings and Def Ratings Wilcox was one of only 5 players who had a positive net rating - from memory his +3 rating was 3rd on the team after KG and Terry.
His def rating was slightly worse then bass while his off rating was massively better.
Bass by comparison was our only starter with a negative net rating.
These numbers aren't a be-all-end-all but they do tell SOMETHING. Wilcox is doing SOMETHING right because unlike Barbosa, Lee, Green and Sullinger we aren't at a negative when he's on the court.
I have to say, Wilcox seems to do more than the box score suggests. When he comes in he plays hard, and he's always out running on the break. One extra man means the fast break is often 3-on-1 which forces teams to try to decode who to cover - if they leave Wilcox open Rondo will lob and he's practically a guaranteed finish, so he draws attention and it opens up the break for the other two guys. Simply having the effort level to run the floor can do good things.
Also his finishing isn't just dunks. If he has the ball anywhere within the paint he's almost a guaranteed finish. He's shooting 75% on shots inside the restricted area, but he's also shooting 75% on shots in the paint (but outside the restricted area. Unless he's found jordanesque dunks from the free throw line, he's finishing with more than just dunks. In the last fee games alone I've seen him finish with some very crafty double clutch layups that very few 6'10" guys of his build has the agility to finish.
Plus he just plays hard, and sometimes his energy alone seems to be contagious for the other guys on the team.
His defense varies from above average at tines to mediocre at others. Given the
umber of poor defenders on this team he's notucj worse than any of our other bigs not names KG. He's certainly been better defensively than Green, Pierce or Collins.
Last season he was a solid rebounder (about 14% rebound rate) but this season its dropped to about. Hopefully hell pick that up.
As for Fab I think there's a good chance he'll get a quick run here and there to see what he can do. Anybody is an upgrade over Collins and we need both size and shotblockibg.
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Jeez, what are you expecting from him? To be Shaq? He is a very good F-C for a 8th/9th player on a contending team. He fills his role excellently and does nothing more or less than expected of him. He catches dunks, hustles and brings speed, athleticism and energy to the team on the court.
I expect him not to be a liability in all phases of the game that are not a wide open dunk. He doesn't have to be Shaq, he can just be Glen Davis or Leon Powe. But he isn't.
He's not "very good" as an 8th/9th player. As a matter of fact, it's probably a stretch to call him mediocre. Someone like Taj Gibson on the Bulls, Rasheed Wallace on the Knicks, or Spencer Hawes on the 76ers is a good 8th/9th player.
Wilcox is giving you the typical "10th guy to borderline DNP" type of performance.The problem is, we cannot afford this, mostly because he's the primary backup of a guy that's playing 28 minutes per contest.
I hate to admit it (because I really like Wilcox), but I think Kozlodev may be correct. I do think Wilcox is a decent 10-15 minutes guy, but I think the back-up 5 is a big need for improvement. Starting 4 and back-up 5 are my top choices for upgrade. I think Sully should get a shot at the starting 4. Melo isn't the answer at back-up 5. I think Wilcox would be great in spot minutes, match-up situations (with Rondo) and GREAT insurance for a short-term injury. But I'd like someone better especially given KG's minutes limitations.
Obviously we can upgrade at the back up five but you could say that about any of our positions. Wilcox does exactly what we need him to do in 15 - 20 minutes a game. He is a role player, who doesnt need the ball to effect the game positively. Yet when he gets it, he is putting it in the bucket 70% of the time. Can we upgrade? Sure. But why knock the guys performance when he is doing exactly what he is asked and is doing it pretty well.
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Wilcox does exactly what we need him to do in 15 - 20 minutes a game.
I'll argue that statement. We need the backup C to play defense, rebound, and occasionally block a shot -- and Wilcox does none of these.
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Wilcox does exactly what we need him to do in 15 - 20 minutes a game.
I'll argue that statement. We need the backup C to play defense, rebound, and occasionally block a shot -- and Wilcox does none of these.
Chris Wilcox gets 1.2 blocks per 36 minutes. That's not elite by any stretch, but it happens to be the best per minute shot blocking number on the team. And, it certainly qualifies as "occasionally" blocking a shot.
I agree that his rebounding needs to improve, but considering that his rebounding rate is at a career low, I'm guessing he should be able to bump those numbers up to at least respectability with continued playing time.
Of course, Chris Wilcox plays defense. I guess some of us just disagree on how effective it's been.
And, he's an extremely efficient scorer. Not only that, but the team scores at a very high rate when he's on the floor. I know that's completely meaningless to you, but half the game is about scoring points, while the other half is about stopping the other team from scoring points.
You need to be able to do both to be a good basketball team.
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I'll argue that statement. We need the backup C to play defense, rebound, and occasionally block a shot -- and Wilcox does none of these.
Wilcox gets around 1.5 blocks per 48 minutes, which isn't spectacular, but is adequate for a back-up. He also gets 1.1 steals per 48, which shows his defense isn't too shabby. While this season his rebounding is down, historically he has been an above average rebounder, and there is reason to believe that he will continue to be.
Furthermore, he doesn't turn the ball over a lot and scores extremely efficiently (his stats this season may be inflated by alley-oops, but look at his track record ... well above average TS and PPS his entire career).
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I'll argue that statement. We need the backup C to play defense, rebound, and occasionally block a shot -- and Wilcox does none of these.
Wilcox gets around 1.5 blocks per 48 minutes, which isn't spectacular, but is adequate for a back-up. He also gets 1.1 steals per 48, which shows his defense isn't too shabby. While this season his rebounding is down, historically he has been an above average rebounder, and there is reason to believe that he will continue to be.
Furthermore, he doesn't turn the ball over a lot and scores extremely efficiently (his stats this season may be inflated by alley-oops, but look at his track record ... well above average TS and PPS his entire career).
Big man defense is largely defined by the ability to hold your ground under the basket and rotate in team defense -- and Wilcox is deficient in both.
For what it's worth, these numbers indicate his shot blocking is horrible, and his ability to get steals -- average, at best. The average center who plays 10 or more minutes averages close to 2.5 blocks and 1.2 steals per 48 minutes.
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I'll argue that statement. We need the backup C to play defense, rebound, and occasionally block a shot -- and Wilcox does none of these.
Wilcox gets around 1.5 blocks per 48 minutes, which isn't spectacular, but is adequate for a back-up. He also gets 1.1 steals per 48, which shows his defense isn't too shabby. While this season his rebounding is down, historically he has been an above average rebounder, and there is reason to believe that he will continue to be.
Furthermore, he doesn't turn the ball over a lot and scores extremely efficiently (his stats this season may be inflated by alley-oops, but look at his track record ... well above average TS and PPS his entire career).
Big man defense is largely defined by the ability to hold your ground under the basket and rotate in team defense -- and Wilcox is deficient in both.
For what it's worth, these numbers indicate his shot blocking is horrible, and his ability to get steals -- average, at best. The average center who plays 10 or more minutes averages close to 2.5 blocks and 1.2 steals per 48 minutes.
You may not have completely made up that number about the average center averaging 2.5 blocks per 48 minutes, but it sounds pretty far fetched to me. Who knows? Maybe the Dwight Howards, Roy Hibberts, and Javale McGees of the league skew the numbers enough so that's true.
In any case, here are the names of some other NBA centers playing at least 10 minutes per game who average 1.3 blocks or less per 36 minutes:
Tyson Chandler: 0.9
Kevin Garnett: 0.8
Anderson Varejao: 0.5
Al Horford: 1.0
Al Jefferson: 1.2
Demarcus Cousins: 0.7
Greg Monroe: 0.8
Chris Kaman: 1.2
Nikola Pekovic: 1.0
JJ Hickson: 0.8
Andre Blatche: 1.0
Tiago Splitter: 1.3
Omer Asik: 1.3
Kendrick Perkins: 1.3
Enes Kanter: 1.3
I can't guarantee that this is a complete list of all centers playing more than 10 MPGs who average roughly the same or less blocks per minutes as Chris Wilcox. Those were just some of the notable names that jumped out at me.
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I'm not making up anything. Hoopdata can give you an average league value broken down by position and minimum amount of minutes played. I just converted the 1.99 per 40 minutes into an approximate per-48 value.
For that matter, it's worth noting the numbers of Wilcox are even less flattering, given that centers with 25+ minutes average ~1.75 blocks per 40, which indicates that players in Wilcox's minute range (10-20) likely average a much higher number of blocks per minute than him (sadly, the intefrace doesn't allow to pull a range with a bottom and a top value).
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Wilcox is not a center. He is a power forward.
Considering his limitations, he is doing a fine job as a makeshift backup center for Boston and better than anyone else on the roster can.
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Wilcox is not a center. He is a power forward.
Considering his limitations, he is doing a fine job as a makeshift backup center for Boston and better than anyone else on the roster can.
While you are not wrong, a large portion of the "center" minutes across the league are played by power forwards these days. So, it makes it a little less relevant.
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Wilcox is not a center. He is a power forward.
Considering his limitations, he is doing a fine job as a makeshift backup center for Boston and better than anyone else on the roster can.
While you are not wrong, a large portion of the "center" minutes across the league are played by power forwards these days. So, it makes it a little less relevant.
I disagree
Starters = all players starting at center are legitimate centers.
Backup centers = I'd say one third of the primary backup centers are power forwards playing out of position.
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Wilcox is not a center. He is a power forward.
Considering his limitations, he is doing a fine job as a makeshift backup center for Boston and better than anyone else on the roster can.
While you are not wrong, a large portion of the "center" minutes across the league are played by power forwards these days. So, it makes it a little less relevant.
I disagree
You disagree that there are PFs playing center, or that it matters?
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Wilcox is not a center. He is a power forward.
Considering his limitations, he is doing a fine job as a makeshift backup center for Boston and better than anyone else on the roster can.
While you are not wrong, a large portion of the "center" minutes across the league are played by power forwards these days. So, it makes it a little less relevant.
I disagree
You disagree that there are PFs playing center, or that it matters?
Sorry, I edited that post to add on this
Starters = all players starting at center are legitimate centers.
Backup centers = I'd say one third of the primary backup centers are power forwards playing out of position.
I disagree that there are a large number of power forwards playing center.
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It was only a medical reset.....back to the D league..!
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You may not have completely made up that number about the average center averaging 2.5 blocks per 48 minutes, but it sounds pretty far fetched to me. Who knows? Maybe the Dwight Howards, Roy Hibberts, and Javale McGees of the league skew the numbers enough so that's true.
Last season, 36 players listed as a C or C-F by basketball-reference.com played at least 30 games averaging at least 10 minutes per game.
2.5 blocks/48 translates to 1.875 blocks/36. Last season, that would have been between the 17th (Nazr Mohammed) and 18th (Marc Gasol) of the 36 players who fit the criteria.
Looking at a couple of past seasons, that seems close to the median shot-blocking performance by centers.