Brandon Roy shot in leg shielding children from gunfire

[Moranis]

Or you could just ban guns.  Far harder for innocents to get stabbed by stray knives than it is for them to get by stray bullets.

[Fan from VT]

I wish we could do more about gang violence. Isn't there some sort of RICO statute we can use? The very act of being in a gang should be illegal, and every member of such gang should be responsible for all crimes committed by the gang.

If that violates the law, change the law.

Well that sounds problematic.

I wonder if the same should be said about fraternities...

Lol. Yes, frats routinely murder innocent people.

Gang murders make up something like 15% of all homicides in the US, but let's compare them to fraternities.

I was thinking of rape.

[Roy H.]

Or you could just ban guns.  Far harder for innocents to get stabbed by stray knives than it is for them to get by stray bullets.

Guns have legit purposes. Street gangs don't.

[kozlodoev]

Or you could just ban guns.  Far harder for innocents to get stabbed by stray knives than it is for them to get by stray bullets.

Guns have legit purposes. Street gangs don't.

Who should we appoint the Grand Curator of "what's legit"? Freedom of assembly isn't optional and doesn't only apply to people you like.

[Roy H.]

Or you could just ban guns.  Far harder for innocents to get stabbed by stray knives than it is for them to get by stray bullets.

Guns have legit purposes. Street gangs don't.

Who should we appoint the Grand Curator of "what's legit"? Freedom of assembly isn't optional and doesn't only apply to people you like.

Congress.

Freedom of association for criminal purposes shouldn't be protected. Is there a counterargument to that?

[kozlodoev]

Or you could just ban guns.  Far harder for innocents to get stabbed by stray knives than it is for them to get by stray bullets.

Guns have legit purposes. Street gangs don't.

Who should we appoint the Grand Curator of "what's legit"? Freedom of assembly isn't optional and doesn't only apply to people you like.

Congress.

Freedom of association for criminal purposes shouldn't be protected. Is there a counterargument to that?

Unless you have a crystal ball, criminal purposes can only be established ipso facto.

[Roy H.]

Or you could just ban guns.  Far harder for innocents to get stabbed by stray knives than it is for them to get by stray bullets.

Guns have legit purposes. Street gangs don't.

Who should we appoint the Grand Curator of "what's legit"? Freedom of assembly isn't optional and doesn't only apply to people you like.

Congress.

Freedom of association for criminal purposes shouldn't be protected. Is there a counterargument to that?

Unless you have a crystal ball, criminal purposes can only be established ipso facto.

That's not really true at all, but even if were, the gangs in question have long histories establishing them as criminal organizations.

[Cman]

I wish we could do more about gang violence. Isn't there some sort of RICO statute we can use? The very act of being in a gang should be illegal, and every member of such gang should be responsible for all crimes committed by the gang.

If that violates the law, change the law.

Well that sounds problematic.

I wonder if the same should be said about fraternities...

Lol. Yes, frats routinely murder innocent people.

Gang murders make up something like 15% of all homicides in the US, but let's compare them to fraternities.

I think the point is "what is a gang"? We need to define a "gang" before we can prosecute a gang under RICO, I believe.

I do like your suggestion, Roy. Organized crime is bad, be it the Mafia or MS13. It would be great to tackle this.

But again, what is a "gang"? Does it include the KKK? Does it include the Aryan Brotherhood? Does it include Hells Angels?

[rondohondo]

Or you could just ban guns.  Far harder for innocents to get stabbed by stray knives than it is for them to get by stray bullets.

Yea just like they have in Chicago! That will stop em....

[Roy H.]

I wish we could do more about gang violence. Isn't there some sort of RICO statute we can use? The very act of being in a gang should be illegal, and every member of such gang should be responsible for all crimes committed by the gang.

If that violates the law, change the law.

Well that sounds problematic.

I wonder if the same should be said about fraternities...

Lol. Yes, frats routinely murder innocent people.

Gang murders make up something like 15% of all homicides in the US, but let's compare them to fraternities.

I think the point is "what is a gang"? We need to define a "gang" before we can prosecute a gang under RICO, I believe.

I do like your suggestion, Roy. Organized crime is bad, be it the Mafia or MS13. It would be great to tackle this.

But again, what is a "gang"? Does it include the KKK? Does it include the Aryan Brotherhood? Does it include Hells Angels?

RICO is a good place to start. Organizations with significant ties to ongoing criminal activities. I think they should broaden the statute to make membership in such an organization illegal in itself.

I don't know the exact boundaries of the list, but traditionally the Mafia, the Hell's Angels, and domestic terrorist groups have all qualified.

[Fan from VT]

I wish we could do more about gang violence. Isn't there some sort of RICO statute we can use? The very act of being in a gang should be illegal, and every member of such gang should be responsible for all crimes committed by the gang.

If that violates the law, change the law.

Well that sounds problematic.

I wonder if the same should be said about fraternities...

Lol. Yes, frats routinely murder innocent people.

Gang murders make up something like 15% of all homicides in the US, but let's compare them to fraternities.

I think the point is "what is a gang"? We need to define a "gang" before we can prosecute a gang under RICO, I believe.

I do like your suggestion, Roy. Organized crime is bad, be it the Mafia or MS13. It would be great to tackle this.

But again, what is a "gang"? Does it include the KKK? Does it include the Aryan Brotherhood? Does it include Hells Angels?

And i'm going back to the

and every member of such gang should be responsible for all crimes committed by the gang.

Should that apply to all organizations? Why not? Why shouldn't it apply to banks, law firms, politicians, etc. Would really increase intra-peer accountability!

And, I'm assuming that if 1st ammendment rights can be revoked for probable future criminals, there's no problem evoking 2nd ammendment rights too. Package deal?

[Roy H.]

I wish we could do more about gang violence. Isn't there some sort of RICO statute we can use? The very act of being in a gang should be illegal, and every member of such gang should be responsible for all crimes committed by the gang.

If that violates the law, change the law.

Well that sounds problematic.

I wonder if the same should be said about fraternities...

Lol. Yes, frats routinely murder innocent people.

Gang murders make up something like 15% of all homicides in the US, but let's compare them to fraternities.

I think the point is "what is a gang"? We need to define a "gang" before we can prosecute a gang under RICO, I believe.

I do like your suggestion, Roy. Organized crime is bad, be it the Mafia or MS13. It would be great to tackle this.

But again, what is a "gang"? Does it include the KKK? Does it include the Aryan Brotherhood? Does it include Hells Angels?

And i'm going back to the

and every member of such gang should be responsible for all crimes committed by the gang.

Should that apply to all organizations? Why not? Why shouldn't it apply to banks, law firms, politicians, etc. Would really increase intra-peer accountability!

And, I'm assuming that if 1st ammendment rights can be revoked for probable future criminals, there's no problem evoking 2nd ammendment rights too. Package deal?

The difference is that most organizations aren't created specifically for purposes of committing crimes. Those that are should be broken up.

What is it about MS13's charter that you find so appealing?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/crime/long-island-teen-butchered-turning-back-ms-13-pal-sister-article-1.3055720

I'd hate to violate the rights of these fine young men by limiting their right to assemble for purposes of committing more atrocities.

[kozlodoev]

I wish we could do more about gang violence. Isn't there some sort of RICO statute we can use? The very act of being in a gang should be illegal, and every member of such gang should be responsible for all crimes committed by the gang.

If that violates the law, change the law.

Well that sounds problematic.

I wonder if the same should be said about fraternities...

Lol. Yes, frats routinely murder innocent people.

Gang murders make up something like 15% of all homicides in the US, but let's compare them to fraternities.

I think the point is "what is a gang"? We need to define a "gang" before we can prosecute a gang under RICO, I believe.

I do like your suggestion, Roy. Organized crime is bad, be it the Mafia or MS13. It would be great to tackle this.

But again, what is a "gang"? Does it include the KKK? Does it include the Aryan Brotherhood? Does it include Hells Angels?

And i'm going back to the

and every member of such gang should be responsible for all crimes committed by the gang.

Should that apply to all organizations? Why not? Why shouldn't it apply to banks, law firms, politicians, etc. Would really increase intra-peer accountability!

And, I'm assuming that if 1st ammendment rights can be revoked for probable future criminals, there's no problem evoking 2nd ammendment rights too. Package deal?

The difference is that most organizations aren't created specifically for purposes of committing crimes. Those that are should be broken up.

What is it about MS13's charter that you find so appealing?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/crime/long-island-teen-butchered-turning-back-ms-13-pal-sister-article-1.3055720

I'd hate to violate the rights of these fine young men by limiting their right to assemble for purposes of committing more atrocities.

I didn't realize that gangs conveniently come with charters that spell out all their criminal intents. That changes everything.

So I'm guessing it's going to be ok if gangs subscribe to a specific legit purpose and then engage in criminal activity on the side? That's going to make them almost like guns.

[Roy H.]

I wish we could do more about gang violence. Isn't there some sort of RICO statute we can use? The very act of being in a gang should be illegal, and every member of such gang should be responsible for all crimes committed by the gang.

If that violates the law, change the law.

Well that sounds problematic.

I wonder if the same should be said about fraternities...

Lol. Yes, frats routinely murder innocent people.

Gang murders make up something like 15% of all homicides in the US, but let's compare them to fraternities.

I think the point is "what is a gang"? We need to define a "gang" before we can prosecute a gang under RICO, I believe.

I do like your suggestion, Roy. Organized crime is bad, be it the Mafia or MS13. It would be great to tackle this.

But again, what is a "gang"? Does it include the KKK? Does it include the Aryan Brotherhood? Does it include Hells Angels?

And i'm going back to the

and every member of such gang should be responsible for all crimes committed by the gang.

Should that apply to all organizations? Why not? Why shouldn't it apply to banks, law firms, politicians, etc. Would really increase intra-peer accountability!

And, I'm assuming that if 1st ammendment rights can be revoked for probable future criminals, there's no problem evoking 2nd ammendment rights too. Package deal?

The difference is that most organizations aren't created specifically for purposes of committing crimes. Those that are should be broken up.

What is it about MS13's charter that you find so appealing?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/crime/long-island-teen-butchered-turning-back-ms-13-pal-sister-article-1.3055720

I'd hate to violate the rights of these fine young men by limiting their right to assemble for purposes of committing more atrocities.

I didn't realize that gangs conveniently come with charters that spell out all their criminal intents. That changes everything.

So I'm guessing it's going to be ok if gangs subscribe to a specific legit purpose and then engage in criminal activity on the side? That's going to make them almost like guns.

There are tens of millions of law-abiding gun owners.  What percentage of MS-13 would you consider to be law-abiding?

I'm in favor of some degree of gun control. I'm also in favor of getting violent thugs who murder children off the streets.

[gift]

You would also have to define membership/affiliation with a gang. It's not like they sign a paper to become members. It's likely that to prove membership in a gang, you'd have to prove they acted on the part of a gang, which likely means they were caught doing something illegal anyway so you're already prosecuting them at that point.