Author Topic: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs  (Read 44291 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #240 on: December 02, 2020, 03:31:28 AM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
watching some of the older clips (maybe like 2016-2017 vs last season).  Thompson has definitely added a little weight, that looks like robbed some of his quickness/explosiveness

He needs to lose 5-7 pounds.

Maybe he became lazy playing for a nowhere rebuilding Cavs team the last few years. Hopefully he can dig a little deeper/clean up his diet and improve his body
Could be a result of having to play 5 nearly full time, given how obsolete non-shooting 4s are in the modern NBA
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #241 on: December 02, 2020, 03:37:56 AM »

Offline trickybilly

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5593
  • Tommy Points: 617
Trade Smart, TimeLord and Langsford for Gobert..works in trademachine

Gobert
Thompson
Tatum
Brown
Walker

Theis
Grant
Neismith
Teague

Go get Gay and Ellington

Championship!!!!!!

I know no one would agree lol

Need a heck of a lot more to get Gobert from Utah.

Also Thompson and Gobert is a horrible pairing to play in the starting 5 together.

That said, I would absolutely love Gobert here.

Jaylen alone might work if Azubuike kills it from the start.

I wouldn't love that trade though...
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #242 on: December 02, 2020, 02:30:42 PM »

Offline Rondo9

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5379
  • Tommy Points: 277
Didn't it seem like Thompson was destined to sign with the Lakers and Lebron James this off-season? Don't you think he would have if Harrell hadn't signed there?

I seriously wonder if Thompson will bring a major chip on his shoulder into the season, especially going against the Lakers.

Goes to show you that Lebron doesn't have all the power with the Lakers like he did back with the Cavs

No it’s just that him and his agent have made up 75% of the Lakers as Clutch Sports clients 🙄

Lebron is absolutely running the show in LA.

You sure?  I think its up to a limit.

If Lebron had such control, explain why they didn't bring in his boy Thompson.  They had the money and instead signed Harrell

I mean, I think he would be a Laker right now if Lebron really only wanted his guys. Getting Harrell not only makes a rival weaker but Harrell is a much more productive offensive player.

but he is a mediocre defender in the playoffs. He was benched in 2nd half of games vs the Nuggets for a reason
yeah because he couldn't guard a massively stronger and bigger player that just happens to be elite.  That was much more about the Clippers terrible roster construction than anything else.  Harrell would have been fine if he was guarding someone like Millsap, but he couldn't handle Jokic.  That will be much less an issue for the Lakers where Harrell will be on the floor with a legit 7 foot elite defender basically at all times (either Davis or Gasol).

confused

why couldn't the Clippers play Zubac and Harrell?

Even if Jokic is bigger, Harrell lacked "fight". No clutch offensive rebounds. No boxing out harder to get inside position

He was just roaming out on the perimeter on the offensive end. Can't even shoot the 3 very well

On defense he would let Jokic do whatever he wanted. He didn't really go up to his face to bother him.  He was guarding him in no mans land. Jokic will torch you then
because Zubac isn't good enough to play much against good teams and then they can't have PG or Kawhi on the floor since they can't really play SG.  It was a Clippers roster problem, the Lakers don't have that problem.

I wonder why you're blaming Zubac when he was the only big who was capable of defending Jokic. Given how slow and ineffective Gasol looked against the Celtics, what makes you think that he's good enough to fill the void Dwight will leave. Besides Harell may be better on offense than Thompson but he's worse on defense based on his performance in the playoffs.
I wasn't.  I was just pointing out facts.  Neither Zubac or Harrell could effectively guard Jokic, but that is all the Clippers had available to try and they couldn't really play them together because they don't fit and then you have to take Kawhi or George off the floor.

The simple reality is the Clippers had a big time roster flaw and they had it all year.  They had enough talent to get by in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.  Ibaka is a better fit for them than Harrell was, so I think they will be better next year, but they also still have a terrible backcourt and not much size (Zubac and Ibaka are it).  Frankly, they have many of the same issues the C's have in the front court and also having their two best players both being natural SF's.  When crunch time comes against great teams, you are always going to have at least 1 guy playing out of position, and that is problematic long term.

I don't think it's a big of a problem that you keep presenting itself to be. The NBA today is predicated around spacing which means that Tatum can get away with playing Power Forward because of the benefits he provides. Ibaka is a much better defender than Harell which will give them a fighting chance next time they meet a big team and he can space the floor which makes it advantageous for Leonard and George.

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #243 on: December 02, 2020, 02:46:59 PM »

Offline td450

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2330
  • Tommy Points: 254
Didn't it seem like Thompson was destined to sign with the Lakers and Lebron James this off-season? Don't you think he would have if Harrell hadn't signed there?

I seriously wonder if Thompson will bring a major chip on his shoulder into the season, especially going against the Lakers.

Goes to show you that Lebron doesn't have all the power with the Lakers like he did back with the Cavs

No it’s just that him and his agent have made up 75% of the Lakers as Clutch Sports clients 🙄

Lebron is absolutely running the show in LA.

You sure?  I think its up to a limit.

If Lebron had such control, explain why they didn't bring in his boy Thompson.  They had the money and instead signed Harrell

I mean, I think he would be a Laker right now if Lebron really only wanted his guys. Getting Harrell not only makes a rival weaker but Harrell is a much more productive offensive player.

but he is a mediocre defender in the playoffs. He was benched in 2nd half of games vs the Nuggets for a reason
yeah because he couldn't guard a massively stronger and bigger player that just happens to be elite.  That was much more about the Clippers terrible roster construction than anything else.  Harrell would have been fine if he was guarding someone like Millsap, but he couldn't handle Jokic.  That will be much less an issue for the Lakers where Harrell will be on the floor with a legit 7 foot elite defender basically at all times (either Davis or Gasol).

confused

why couldn't the Clippers play Zubac and Harrell?

Even if Jokic is bigger, Harrell lacked "fight". No clutch offensive rebounds. No boxing out harder to get inside position

He was just roaming out on the perimeter on the offensive end. Can't even shoot the 3 very well

On defense he would let Jokic do whatever he wanted. He didn't really go up to his face to bother him.  He was guarding him in no mans land. Jokic will torch you then
because Zubac isn't good enough to play much against good teams and then they can't have PG or Kawhi on the floor since they can't really play SG.  It was a Clippers roster problem, the Lakers don't have that problem.

I wonder why you're blaming Zubac when he was the only big who was capable of defending Jokic. Given how slow and ineffective Gasol looked against the Celtics, what makes you think that he's good enough to fill the void Dwight will leave. Besides Harell may be better on offense than Thompson but he's worse on defense based on his performance in the playoffs.
I wasn't.  I was just pointing out facts.  Neither Zubac or Harrell could effectively guard Jokic, but that is all the Clippers had available to try and they couldn't really play them together because they don't fit and then you have to take Kawhi or George off the floor.

The simple reality is the Clippers had a big time roster flaw and they had it all year.  They had enough talent to get by in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.  Ibaka is a better fit for them than Harrell was, so I think they will be better next year, but they also still have a terrible backcourt and not much size (Zubac and Ibaka are it).  Frankly, they have many of the same issues the C's have in the front court and also having their two best players both being natural SF's.  When crunch time comes against great teams, you are always going to have at least 1 guy playing out of position, and that is problematic long term.

I'e never understood this logic.

Whenever there is a mismatch, it goes both ways. One player is bigger and one is smaller. Who wins depends on who is better at taking advantage. A smaller guy can absolutely win a matchup. Kawhi Leonard found a way to outplay Giannis a couple of years ago. Its about being able to make plays under pressure. Even if you are playing a better player, you find a way to be a problem and do what you can.

Harrell failed because he got outcompeted. Jokic is slower. Harrell had a physical advantage too, and he couldn't find a way to exploit it.

The C's have Jaylen and Marcus. They can cover almost anyone, and they won't pout if they get beat once or twice. Its an advantage because they are better at mismatches than almost anyone else in the league. That's why they are so valuable.

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #244 on: December 02, 2020, 03:11:32 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Didn't it seem like Thompson was destined to sign with the Lakers and Lebron James this off-season? Don't you think he would have if Harrell hadn't signed there?

I seriously wonder if Thompson will bring a major chip on his shoulder into the season, especially going against the Lakers.

Goes to show you that Lebron doesn't have all the power with the Lakers like he did back with the Cavs

No it’s just that him and his agent have made up 75% of the Lakers as Clutch Sports clients 🙄

Lebron is absolutely running the show in LA.

You sure?  I think its up to a limit.

If Lebron had such control, explain why they didn't bring in his boy Thompson.  They had the money and instead signed Harrell

I mean, I think he would be a Laker right now if Lebron really only wanted his guys. Getting Harrell not only makes a rival weaker but Harrell is a much more productive offensive player.

but he is a mediocre defender in the playoffs. He was benched in 2nd half of games vs the Nuggets for a reason
yeah because he couldn't guard a massively stronger and bigger player that just happens to be elite.  That was much more about the Clippers terrible roster construction than anything else.  Harrell would have been fine if he was guarding someone like Millsap, but he couldn't handle Jokic.  That will be much less an issue for the Lakers where Harrell will be on the floor with a legit 7 foot elite defender basically at all times (either Davis or Gasol).

confused

why couldn't the Clippers play Zubac and Harrell?

Even if Jokic is bigger, Harrell lacked "fight". No clutch offensive rebounds. No boxing out harder to get inside position

He was just roaming out on the perimeter on the offensive end. Can't even shoot the 3 very well

On defense he would let Jokic do whatever he wanted. He didn't really go up to his face to bother him.  He was guarding him in no mans land. Jokic will torch you then
because Zubac isn't good enough to play much against good teams and then they can't have PG or Kawhi on the floor since they can't really play SG.  It was a Clippers roster problem, the Lakers don't have that problem.

I wonder why you're blaming Zubac when he was the only big who was capable of defending Jokic. Given how slow and ineffective Gasol looked against the Celtics, what makes you think that he's good enough to fill the void Dwight will leave. Besides Harell may be better on offense than Thompson but he's worse on defense based on his performance in the playoffs.
I wasn't.  I was just pointing out facts.  Neither Zubac or Harrell could effectively guard Jokic, but that is all the Clippers had available to try and they couldn't really play them together because they don't fit and then you have to take Kawhi or George off the floor.

The simple reality is the Clippers had a big time roster flaw and they had it all year.  They had enough talent to get by in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.  Ibaka is a better fit for them than Harrell was, so I think they will be better next year, but they also still have a terrible backcourt and not much size (Zubac and Ibaka are it).  Frankly, they have many of the same issues the C's have in the front court and also having their two best players both being natural SF's.  When crunch time comes against great teams, you are always going to have at least 1 guy playing out of position, and that is problematic long term.

I'e never understood this logic.

Whenever there is a mismatch, it goes both ways. One player is bigger and one is smaller. Who wins depends on who is better at taking advantage. A smaller guy can absolutely win a matchup. Kawhi Leonard found a way to outplay Giannis a couple of years ago. Its about being able to make plays under pressure. Even if you are playing a better player, you find a way to be a problem and do what you can.

Harrell failed because he got outcompeted. Jokic is slower. Harrell had a physical advantage too, and he couldn't find a way to exploit it.

The C's have Jaylen and Marcus. They can cover almost anyone, and they won't pout if they get beat once or twice. Its an advantage because they are better at mismatches than almost anyone else in the league. That's why they are so valuable.
It doesn't necessarily go both ways.  Depends on the skill sets.  I mean Davis is quick enough that he can guard George fairly well, but PG can't guard AD in the post.  Yet they are both PF's for their teams.  That is what I mean.  The Clippers have a poorly constructed roster, though Ibaka does improve upon the low post deficiencies they had last year.  They still have issues down low, but not as many. And Ibaka can actually play with both Zubac and George, unlike Harrell who really couldn't play with Zubac at all.  Those two were not a good match skill set wise.   That is why I think Harrell will do better with the Lakers as I think his skill set fits much better with Gasol and Davis then he did with Zubac and George providing more roster fluidity and match-up tinkering.  For all the love that James and Davis got (mostly deserved), the Lakers were able to win the title so easily because they had a really deep team that allowed them to play situational basketball better than anyone else and I think they've actually gotten better in that regard.  The Lakers are justifiably heavy favorites to repeat and adding Harrell is a reason why as he provides some much needed scoring pop to their bench.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #245 on: December 02, 2020, 03:43:38 PM »

Offline Rondo9

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5379
  • Tommy Points: 277
Didn't it seem like Thompson was destined to sign with the Lakers and Lebron James this off-season? Don't you think he would have if Harrell hadn't signed there?

I seriously wonder if Thompson will bring a major chip on his shoulder into the season, especially going against the Lakers.

Goes to show you that Lebron doesn't have all the power with the Lakers like he did back with the Cavs

No it’s just that him and his agent have made up 75% of the Lakers as Clutch Sports clients 🙄

Lebron is absolutely running the show in LA.

You sure?  I think its up to a limit.

If Lebron had such control, explain why they didn't bring in his boy Thompson.  They had the money and instead signed Harrell

I mean, I think he would be a Laker right now if Lebron really only wanted his guys. Getting Harrell not only makes a rival weaker but Harrell is a much more productive offensive player.

but he is a mediocre defender in the playoffs. He was benched in 2nd half of games vs the Nuggets for a reason
yeah because he couldn't guard a massively stronger and bigger player that just happens to be elite.  That was much more about the Clippers terrible roster construction than anything else.  Harrell would have been fine if he was guarding someone like Millsap, but he couldn't handle Jokic.  That will be much less an issue for the Lakers where Harrell will be on the floor with a legit 7 foot elite defender basically at all times (either Davis or Gasol).

confused

why couldn't the Clippers play Zubac and Harrell?

Even if Jokic is bigger, Harrell lacked "fight". No clutch offensive rebounds. No boxing out harder to get inside position

He was just roaming out on the perimeter on the offensive end. Can't even shoot the 3 very well

On defense he would let Jokic do whatever he wanted. He didn't really go up to his face to bother him.  He was guarding him in no mans land. Jokic will torch you then
because Zubac isn't good enough to play much against good teams and then they can't have PG or Kawhi on the floor since they can't really play SG.  It was a Clippers roster problem, the Lakers don't have that problem.

I wonder why you're blaming Zubac when he was the only big who was capable of defending Jokic. Given how slow and ineffective Gasol looked against the Celtics, what makes you think that he's good enough to fill the void Dwight will leave. Besides Harell may be better on offense than Thompson but he's worse on defense based on his performance in the playoffs.
I wasn't.  I was just pointing out facts.  Neither Zubac or Harrell could effectively guard Jokic, but that is all the Clippers had available to try and they couldn't really play them together because they don't fit and then you have to take Kawhi or George off the floor.

The simple reality is the Clippers had a big time roster flaw and they had it all year.  They had enough talent to get by in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.  Ibaka is a better fit for them than Harrell was, so I think they will be better next year, but they also still have a terrible backcourt and not much size (Zubac and Ibaka are it).  Frankly, they have many of the same issues the C's have in the front court and also having their two best players both being natural SF's.  When crunch time comes against great teams, you are always going to have at least 1 guy playing out of position, and that is problematic long term.

I'e never understood this logic.

Whenever there is a mismatch, it goes both ways. One player is bigger and one is smaller. Who wins depends on who is better at taking advantage. A smaller guy can absolutely win a matchup. Kawhi Leonard found a way to outplay Giannis a couple of years ago. Its about being able to make plays under pressure. Even if you are playing a better player, you find a way to be a problem and do what you can.

Harrell failed because he got outcompeted. Jokic is slower. Harrell had a physical advantage too, and he couldn't find a way to exploit it.

The C's have Jaylen and Marcus. They can cover almost anyone, and they won't pout if they get beat once or twice. Its an advantage because they are better at mismatches than almost anyone else in the league. That's why they are so valuable.
It doesn't necessarily go both ways.  Depends on the skill sets.  I mean Davis is quick enough that he can guard George fairly well, but PG can't guard AD in the post.  Yet they are both PF's for their teams.  That is what I mean.  The Clippers have a poorly constructed roster, though Ibaka does improve upon the low post deficiencies they had last year.  They still have issues down low, but not as many. And Ibaka can actually play with both Zubac and George, unlike Harrell who really couldn't play with Zubac at all.  Those two were not a good match skill set wise.   That is why I think Harrell will do better with the Lakers as I think his skill set fits much better with Gasol and Davis then he did with Zubac and George providing more roster fluidity and match-up tinkering.  For all the love that James and Davis got (mostly deserved), the Lakers were able to win the title so easily because they had a really deep team that allowed them to play situational basketball better than anyone else and I think they've actually gotten better in that regard.  The Lakers are justifiably heavy favorites to repeat and adding Harrell is a reason why as he provides some much needed scoring pop to their bench.

I'm not sure if Harrell will be a great fit, the loss of Dwight and Rondo will no doubt hurt. Besides Gasol looked slow against the Celtics and is only getting older. The Lakers would've been best served to add Ibaka for spacing.

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #246 on: December 02, 2020, 07:39:43 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Didn't it seem like Thompson was destined to sign with the Lakers and Lebron James this off-season? Don't you think he would have if Harrell hadn't signed there?

I seriously wonder if Thompson will bring a major chip on his shoulder into the season, especially going against the Lakers.

Goes to show you that Lebron doesn't have all the power with the Lakers like he did back with the Cavs

No it’s just that him and his agent have made up 75% of the Lakers as Clutch Sports clients 🙄

Lebron is absolutely running the show in LA.

You sure?  I think its up to a limit.

If Lebron had such control, explain why they didn't bring in his boy Thompson.  They had the money and instead signed Harrell

I mean, I think he would be a Laker right now if Lebron really only wanted his guys. Getting Harrell not only makes a rival weaker but Harrell is a much more productive offensive player.

but he is a mediocre defender in the playoffs. He was benched in 2nd half of games vs the Nuggets for a reason
yeah because he couldn't guard a massively stronger and bigger player that just happens to be elite.  That was much more about the Clippers terrible roster construction than anything else.  Harrell would have been fine if he was guarding someone like Millsap, but he couldn't handle Jokic.  That will be much less an issue for the Lakers where Harrell will be on the floor with a legit 7 foot elite defender basically at all times (either Davis or Gasol).

confused

why couldn't the Clippers play Zubac and Harrell?

Even if Jokic is bigger, Harrell lacked "fight". No clutch offensive rebounds. No boxing out harder to get inside position

He was just roaming out on the perimeter on the offensive end. Can't even shoot the 3 very well

On defense he would let Jokic do whatever he wanted. He didn't really go up to his face to bother him.  He was guarding him in no mans land. Jokic will torch you then
because Zubac isn't good enough to play much against good teams and then they can't have PG or Kawhi on the floor since they can't really play SG.  It was a Clippers roster problem, the Lakers don't have that problem.

I wonder why you're blaming Zubac when he was the only big who was capable of defending Jokic. Given how slow and ineffective Gasol looked against the Celtics, what makes you think that he's good enough to fill the void Dwight will leave. Besides Harell may be better on offense than Thompson but he's worse on defense based on his performance in the playoffs.
I wasn't.  I was just pointing out facts.  Neither Zubac or Harrell could effectively guard Jokic, but that is all the Clippers had available to try and they couldn't really play them together because they don't fit and then you have to take Kawhi or George off the floor.

The simple reality is the Clippers had a big time roster flaw and they had it all year.  They had enough talent to get by in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.  Ibaka is a better fit for them than Harrell was, so I think they will be better next year, but they also still have a terrible backcourt and not much size (Zubac and Ibaka are it).  Frankly, they have many of the same issues the C's have in the front court and also having their two best players both being natural SF's.  When crunch time comes against great teams, you are always going to have at least 1 guy playing out of position, and that is problematic long term.

I'e never understood this logic.

Whenever there is a mismatch, it goes both ways. One player is bigger and one is smaller. Who wins depends on who is better at taking advantage. A smaller guy can absolutely win a matchup. Kawhi Leonard found a way to outplay Giannis a couple of years ago. Its about being able to make plays under pressure. Even if you are playing a better player, you find a way to be a problem and do what you can.

Harrell failed because he got outcompeted. Jokic is slower. Harrell had a physical advantage too, and he couldn't find a way to exploit it.

The C's have Jaylen and Marcus. They can cover almost anyone, and they won't pout if they get beat once or twice. Its an advantage because they are better at mismatches than almost anyone else in the league. That's why they are so valuable.
It doesn't necessarily go both ways.  Depends on the skill sets.  I mean Davis is quick enough that he can guard George fairly well, but PG can't guard AD in the post.  Yet they are both PF's for their teams.  That is what I mean.  The Clippers have a poorly constructed roster, though Ibaka does improve upon the low post deficiencies they had last year.  They still have issues down low, but not as many. And Ibaka can actually play with both Zubac and George, unlike Harrell who really couldn't play with Zubac at all.  Those two were not a good match skill set wise.   That is why I think Harrell will do better with the Lakers as I think his skill set fits much better with Gasol and Davis then he did with Zubac and George providing more roster fluidity and match-up tinkering.  For all the love that James and Davis got (mostly deserved), the Lakers were able to win the title so easily because they had a really deep team that allowed them to play situational basketball better than anyone else and I think they've actually gotten better in that regard.  The Lakers are justifiably heavy favorites to repeat and adding Harrell is a reason why as he provides some much needed scoring pop to their bench.

I'm not sure if Harrell will be a great fit, the loss of Dwight and Rondo will no doubt hurt. Besides Gasol looked slow against the Celtics and is only getting older. The Lakers would've been best served to add Ibaka for spacing.
since Gasol really started taking 3's he has been a better and more consistent 3 point shooter than Ibaka.  So they got the correct guy for spacing. Gasol is also a significantly better passer.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #247 on: December 02, 2020, 08:23:18 PM »

Offline moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7640
  • Tommy Points: 441
Didn't it seem like Thompson was destined to sign with the Lakers and Lebron James this off-season? Don't you think he would have if Harrell hadn't signed there?

I seriously wonder if Thompson will bring a major chip on his shoulder into the season, especially going against the Lakers.

Goes to show you that Lebron doesn't have all the power with the Lakers like he did back with the Cavs

No it’s just that him and his agent have made up 75% of the Lakers as Clutch Sports clients 🙄

Lebron is absolutely running the show in LA.

You sure?  I think its up to a limit.

If Lebron had such control, explain why they didn't bring in his boy Thompson.  They had the money and instead signed Harrell

I mean, I think he would be a Laker right now if Lebron really only wanted his guys. Getting Harrell not only makes a rival weaker but Harrell is a much more productive offensive player.

but he is a mediocre defender in the playoffs. He was benched in 2nd half of games vs the Nuggets for a reason
yeah because he couldn't guard a massively stronger and bigger player that just happens to be elite.  That was much more about the Clippers terrible roster construction than anything else.  Harrell would have been fine if he was guarding someone like Millsap, but he couldn't handle Jokic.  That will be much less an issue for the Lakers where Harrell will be on the floor with a legit 7 foot elite defender basically at all times (either Davis or Gasol).

confused

why couldn't the Clippers play Zubac and Harrell?

Even if Jokic is bigger, Harrell lacked "fight". No clutch offensive rebounds. No boxing out harder to get inside position

He was just roaming out on the perimeter on the offensive end. Can't even shoot the 3 very well

On defense he would let Jokic do whatever he wanted. He didn't really go up to his face to bother him.  He was guarding him in no mans land. Jokic will torch you then
because Zubac isn't good enough to play much against good teams and then they can't have PG or Kawhi on the floor since they can't really play SG.  It was a Clippers roster problem, the Lakers don't have that problem.

I wonder why you're blaming Zubac when he was the only big who was capable of defending Jokic. Given how slow and ineffective Gasol looked against the Celtics, what makes you think that he's good enough to fill the void Dwight will leave. Besides Harell may be better on offense than Thompson but he's worse on defense based on his performance in the playoffs.
I wasn't.  I was just pointing out facts.  Neither Zubac or Harrell could effectively guard Jokic, but that is all the Clippers had available to try and they couldn't really play them together because they don't fit and then you have to take Kawhi or George off the floor.

The simple reality is the Clippers had a big time roster flaw and they had it all year.  They had enough talent to get by in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.  Ibaka is a better fit for them than Harrell was, so I think they will be better next year, but they also still have a terrible backcourt and not much size (Zubac and Ibaka are it).  Frankly, they have many of the same issues the C's have in the front court and also having their two best players both being natural SF's.  When crunch time comes against great teams, you are always going to have at least 1 guy playing out of position, and that is problematic long term.

I'e never understood this logic.

Whenever there is a mismatch, it goes both ways. One player is bigger and one is smaller. Who wins depends on who is better at taking advantage. A smaller guy can absolutely win a matchup. Kawhi Leonard found a way to outplay Giannis a couple of years ago. Its about being able to make plays under pressure. Even if you are playing a better player, you find a way to be a problem and do what you can.

Harrell failed because he got outcompeted. Jokic is slower. Harrell had a physical advantage too, and he couldn't find a way to exploit it.

The C's have Jaylen and Marcus. They can cover almost anyone, and they won't pout if they get beat once or twice. Its an advantage because they are better at mismatches than almost anyone else in the league. That's why they are so valuable.
It doesn't necessarily go both ways.  Depends on the skill sets.  I mean Davis is quick enough that he can guard George fairly well, but PG can't guard AD in the post.  Yet they are both PF's for their teams.  That is what I mean.  The Clippers have a poorly constructed roster, though Ibaka does improve upon the low post deficiencies they had last year.  They still have issues down low, but not as many. And Ibaka can actually play with both Zubac and George, unlike Harrell who really couldn't play with Zubac at all.  Those two were not a good match skill set wise.   That is why I think Harrell will do better with the Lakers as I think his skill set fits much better with Gasol and Davis then he did with Zubac and George providing more roster fluidity and match-up tinkering.  For all the love that James and Davis got (mostly deserved), the Lakers were able to win the title so easily because they had a really deep team that allowed them to play situational basketball better than anyone else and I think they've actually gotten better in that regard.  The Lakers are justifiably heavy favorites to repeat and adding Harrell is a reason why as he provides some much needed scoring pop to their bench.

I'm not sure if Harrell will be a great fit, the loss of Dwight and Rondo will no doubt hurt. Besides Gasol looked slow against the Celtics and is only getting older. The Lakers would've been best served to add Ibaka for spacing.
since Gasol really started taking 3's he has been a better and more consistent 3 point shooter than Ibaka.  So they got the correct guy for spacing. Gasol is also a significantly better passer.
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the guy with the lower career 3 point percentage is the better 3 point shooter.  They are pretty much equal as floor spacers.  Gasol looked very slow and out of shape in the bubble.  You could see his gut through his jersey and his arms were flabby.  I'm guessing he will be in much better shape next season and will be quicker than he was in the bubble.

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #248 on: December 02, 2020, 08:26:25 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
watching some of the older clips (maybe like 2016-2017 vs last season).  Thompson has definitely added a little weight, that looks like robbed some of his quickness/explosiveness

He needs to lose 5-7 pounds.

Maybe he became lazy playing for a nowhere rebuilding Cavs team the last few years. Hopefully he can dig a little deeper/clean up his diet and improve his body
Could be a result of having to play 5 nearly full time, given how obsolete non-shooting 4s are in the modern NBA

I mean hasnt he been playing center since 2015?

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #249 on: December 02, 2020, 08:35:55 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58554
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
watching some of the older clips (maybe like 2016-2017 vs last season).  Thompson has definitely added a little weight, that looks like robbed some of his quickness/explosiveness

He needs to lose 5-7 pounds.

Maybe he became lazy playing for a nowhere rebuilding Cavs team the last few years. Hopefully he can dig a little deeper/clean up his diet and improve his body
Could be a result of having to play 5 nearly full time, given how obsolete non-shooting 4s are in the modern NBA

I mean hasnt he been playing center since 2015?

Spot minutes, but he primarily played PF until 2017 according to basketball-reference.  It looks like his durability took a corresponding dip.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #250 on: December 03, 2020, 02:12:30 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Didn't it seem like Thompson was destined to sign with the Lakers and Lebron James this off-season? Don't you think he would have if Harrell hadn't signed there?

I seriously wonder if Thompson will bring a major chip on his shoulder into the season, especially going against the Lakers.

Goes to show you that Lebron doesn't have all the power with the Lakers like he did back with the Cavs

No it’s just that him and his agent have made up 75% of the Lakers as Clutch Sports clients 🙄

Lebron is absolutely running the show in LA.

You sure?  I think its up to a limit.

If Lebron had such control, explain why they didn't bring in his boy Thompson.  They had the money and instead signed Harrell

I mean, I think he would be a Laker right now if Lebron really only wanted his guys. Getting Harrell not only makes a rival weaker but Harrell is a much more productive offensive player.

but he is a mediocre defender in the playoffs. He was benched in 2nd half of games vs the Nuggets for a reason
yeah because he couldn't guard a massively stronger and bigger player that just happens to be elite.  That was much more about the Clippers terrible roster construction than anything else.  Harrell would have been fine if he was guarding someone like Millsap, but he couldn't handle Jokic.  That will be much less an issue for the Lakers where Harrell will be on the floor with a legit 7 foot elite defender basically at all times (either Davis or Gasol).

confused

why couldn't the Clippers play Zubac and Harrell?

Even if Jokic is bigger, Harrell lacked "fight". No clutch offensive rebounds. No boxing out harder to get inside position

He was just roaming out on the perimeter on the offensive end. Can't even shoot the 3 very well

On defense he would let Jokic do whatever he wanted. He didn't really go up to his face to bother him.  He was guarding him in no mans land. Jokic will torch you then
because Zubac isn't good enough to play much against good teams and then they can't have PG or Kawhi on the floor since they can't really play SG.  It was a Clippers roster problem, the Lakers don't have that problem.

I wonder why you're blaming Zubac when he was the only big who was capable of defending Jokic. Given how slow and ineffective Gasol looked against the Celtics, what makes you think that he's good enough to fill the void Dwight will leave. Besides Harell may be better on offense than Thompson but he's worse on defense based on his performance in the playoffs.
I wasn't.  I was just pointing out facts.  Neither Zubac or Harrell could effectively guard Jokic, but that is all the Clippers had available to try and they couldn't really play them together because they don't fit and then you have to take Kawhi or George off the floor.

The simple reality is the Clippers had a big time roster flaw and they had it all year.  They had enough talent to get by in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.  Ibaka is a better fit for them than Harrell was, so I think they will be better next year, but they also still have a terrible backcourt and not much size (Zubac and Ibaka are it).  Frankly, they have many of the same issues the C's have in the front court and also having their two best players both being natural SF's.  When crunch time comes against great teams, you are always going to have at least 1 guy playing out of position, and that is problematic long term.

I'e never understood this logic.

Whenever there is a mismatch, it goes both ways. One player is bigger and one is smaller. Who wins depends on who is better at taking advantage. A smaller guy can absolutely win a matchup. Kawhi Leonard found a way to outplay Giannis a couple of years ago. Its about being able to make plays under pressure. Even if you are playing a better player, you find a way to be a problem and do what you can.

Harrell failed because he got outcompeted. Jokic is slower. Harrell had a physical advantage too, and he couldn't find a way to exploit it.

The C's have Jaylen and Marcus. They can cover almost anyone, and they won't pout if they get beat once or twice. Its an advantage because they are better at mismatches than almost anyone else in the league. That's why they are so valuable.
It doesn't necessarily go both ways.  Depends on the skill sets.  I mean Davis is quick enough that he can guard George fairly well, but PG can't guard AD in the post.  Yet they are both PF's for their teams.  That is what I mean.  The Clippers have a poorly constructed roster, though Ibaka does improve upon the low post deficiencies they had last year.  They still have issues down low, but not as many. And Ibaka can actually play with both Zubac and George, unlike Harrell who really couldn't play with Zubac at all.  Those two were not a good match skill set wise.   That is why I think Harrell will do better with the Lakers as I think his skill set fits much better with Gasol and Davis then he did with Zubac and George providing more roster fluidity and match-up tinkering.  For all the love that James and Davis got (mostly deserved), the Lakers were able to win the title so easily because they had a really deep team that allowed them to play situational basketball better than anyone else and I think they've actually gotten better in that regard.  The Lakers are justifiably heavy favorites to repeat and adding Harrell is a reason why as he provides some much needed scoring pop to their bench.

I'm not sure if Harrell will be a great fit, the loss of Dwight and Rondo will no doubt hurt. Besides Gasol looked slow against the Celtics and is only getting older. The Lakers would've been best served to add Ibaka for spacing.
since Gasol really started taking 3's he has been a better and more consistent 3 point shooter than Ibaka.  So they got the correct guy for spacing. Gasol is also a significantly better passer.
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the guy with the lower career 3 point percentage is the better 3 point shooter.  They are pretty much equal as floor spacers.  Gasol looked very slow and out of shape in the bubble.  You could see his gut through his jersey and his arms were flabby.  I'm guessing he will be in much better shape next season and will be quicker than he was in the bubble.
So since the 2017 season these are their 3 PT%

Gasol
38.8
34.1
36.3
38.5

Total last 4 seasons 36.6% on 1009 attempts with a range of only 4.7%

Ibaka
39.1
36.0
29.0
38.5

Total last 4 years 36.3% on 965 attempts, but a range of 10.1%

So Gasol is hitting at a slightly better rate, has been more consistent in his percentages, and in addition he is taking more than Ibaka over that time period. 

Thus, since Gasol started regularly taking 3 pointers he is in fact the better 3 point shooter.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #251 on: December 03, 2020, 02:43:39 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11226
  • Tommy Points: 860
watching some of the older clips (maybe like 2016-2017 vs last season).  Thompson has definitely added a little weight, that looks like robbed some of his quickness/explosiveness

He needs to lose 5-7 pounds.

Maybe he became lazy playing for a nowhere rebuilding Cavs team the last few years. Hopefully he can dig a little deeper/clean up his diet and improve his body
Could be a result of having to play 5 nearly full time, given how obsolete non-shooting 4s are in the modern NBA

I mean hasnt he been playing center since 2015?

Per 82Games 5-man unit data 2019-20, Thompson played the vast majority of his minutes with either Love or Nance also on the floor.  I would say that translates to being primarily the C (or at least the more center-type of the big combination).  Similar combinations for 2018-19.  I see Thompson as way more center than PF but most NBA bigs can plays some of both as needed.  I think the Celtics need Thompson as a center:

Bigs - more Center Types:
Thompson
RWilliams

Bigs - more PF Types:
Theis (at least I believe he is better suited for this than as a center)
Ojeleye
GWilliams

Wings (Not Bigs)
Tatum
Brown
Nesmith
Langford
JGreen

Guards (PGs or Combo)
Walker
Smart
Teague
Pritchard
Edwards

I know people will debate my categorization (it is not meant to be highly literal or scientific) but the point is that we have more personnel, skill and talent in our Guards and Wings (10) than Bigs (5) and of the bigs, we have more PF types than Center types, ergo, we need Thompson to be a center type big.

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #252 on: December 03, 2020, 03:33:19 PM »

Offline moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7640
  • Tommy Points: 441
Didn't it seem like Thompson was destined to sign with the Lakers and Lebron James this off-season? Don't you think he would have if Harrell hadn't signed there?

I seriously wonder if Thompson will bring a major chip on his shoulder into the season, especially going against the Lakers.

Goes to show you that Lebron doesn't have all the power with the Lakers like he did back with the Cavs

No it’s just that him and his agent have made up 75% of the Lakers as Clutch Sports clients 🙄

Lebron is absolutely running the show in LA.

You sure?  I think its up to a limit.

If Lebron had such control, explain why they didn't bring in his boy Thompson.  They had the money and instead signed Harrell

I mean, I think he would be a Laker right now if Lebron really only wanted his guys. Getting Harrell not only makes a rival weaker but Harrell is a much more productive offensive player.

but he is a mediocre defender in the playoffs. He was benched in 2nd half of games vs the Nuggets for a reason
yeah because he couldn't guard a massively stronger and bigger player that just happens to be elite.  That was much more about the Clippers terrible roster construction than anything else.  Harrell would have been fine if he was guarding someone like Millsap, but he couldn't handle Jokic.  That will be much less an issue for the Lakers where Harrell will be on the floor with a legit 7 foot elite defender basically at all times (either Davis or Gasol).

confused

why couldn't the Clippers play Zubac and Harrell?

Even if Jokic is bigger, Harrell lacked "fight". No clutch offensive rebounds. No boxing out harder to get inside position

He was just roaming out on the perimeter on the offensive end. Can't even shoot the 3 very well

On defense he would let Jokic do whatever he wanted. He didn't really go up to his face to bother him.  He was guarding him in no mans land. Jokic will torch you then
because Zubac isn't good enough to play much against good teams and then they can't have PG or Kawhi on the floor since they can't really play SG.  It was a Clippers roster problem, the Lakers don't have that problem.

I wonder why you're blaming Zubac when he was the only big who was capable of defending Jokic. Given how slow and ineffective Gasol looked against the Celtics, what makes you think that he's good enough to fill the void Dwight will leave. Besides Harell may be better on offense than Thompson but he's worse on defense based on his performance in the playoffs.
I wasn't.  I was just pointing out facts.  Neither Zubac or Harrell could effectively guard Jokic, but that is all the Clippers had available to try and they couldn't really play them together because they don't fit and then you have to take Kawhi or George off the floor.

The simple reality is the Clippers had a big time roster flaw and they had it all year.  They had enough talent to get by in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.  Ibaka is a better fit for them than Harrell was, so I think they will be better next year, but they also still have a terrible backcourt and not much size (Zubac and Ibaka are it).  Frankly, they have many of the same issues the C's have in the front court and also having their two best players both being natural SF's.  When crunch time comes against great teams, you are always going to have at least 1 guy playing out of position, and that is problematic long term.

I'e never understood this logic.

Whenever there is a mismatch, it goes both ways. One player is bigger and one is smaller. Who wins depends on who is better at taking advantage. A smaller guy can absolutely win a matchup. Kawhi Leonard found a way to outplay Giannis a couple of years ago. Its about being able to make plays under pressure. Even if you are playing a better player, you find a way to be a problem and do what you can.

Harrell failed because he got outcompeted. Jokic is slower. Harrell had a physical advantage too, and he couldn't find a way to exploit it.

The C's have Jaylen and Marcus. They can cover almost anyone, and they won't pout if they get beat once or twice. Its an advantage because they are better at mismatches than almost anyone else in the league. That's why they are so valuable.
It doesn't necessarily go both ways.  Depends on the skill sets.  I mean Davis is quick enough that he can guard George fairly well, but PG can't guard AD in the post.  Yet they are both PF's for their teams.  That is what I mean.  The Clippers have a poorly constructed roster, though Ibaka does improve upon the low post deficiencies they had last year.  They still have issues down low, but not as many. And Ibaka can actually play with both Zubac and George, unlike Harrell who really couldn't play with Zubac at all.  Those two were not a good match skill set wise.   That is why I think Harrell will do better with the Lakers as I think his skill set fits much better with Gasol and Davis then he did with Zubac and George providing more roster fluidity and match-up tinkering.  For all the love that James and Davis got (mostly deserved), the Lakers were able to win the title so easily because they had a really deep team that allowed them to play situational basketball better than anyone else and I think they've actually gotten better in that regard.  The Lakers are justifiably heavy favorites to repeat and adding Harrell is a reason why as he provides some much needed scoring pop to their bench.

I'm not sure if Harrell will be a great fit, the loss of Dwight and Rondo will no doubt hurt. Besides Gasol looked slow against the Celtics and is only getting older. The Lakers would've been best served to add Ibaka for spacing.
since Gasol really started taking 3's he has been a better and more consistent 3 point shooter than Ibaka.  So they got the correct guy for spacing. Gasol is also a significantly better passer.
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the guy with the lower career 3 point percentage is the better 3 point shooter.  They are pretty much equal as floor spacers.  Gasol looked very slow and out of shape in the bubble.  You could see his gut through his jersey and his arms were flabby.  I'm guessing he will be in much better shape next season and will be quicker than he was in the bubble.
So since the 2017 season these are their 3 PT%

Gasol
38.8
34.1
36.3
38.5

Total last 4 seasons 36.6% on 1009 attempts with a range of only 4.7%

Ibaka
39.1
36.0
29.0
38.5

Total last 4 years 36.3% on 965 attempts, but a range of 10.1%

So Gasol is hitting at a slightly better rate, has been more consistent in his percentages, and in addition he is taking more than Ibaka over that time period. 

Thus, since Gasol started regularly taking 3 pointers he is in fact the better 3 point shooter.
Yeah, or consider the 29% year a fluke year like I do, subtract it, and Ibaka is much better than Gasol.

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #253 on: December 03, 2020, 05:30:26 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11226
  • Tommy Points: 860
Didn't it seem like Thompson was destined to sign with the Lakers and Lebron James this off-season? Don't you think he would have if Harrell hadn't signed there?

I seriously wonder if Thompson will bring a major chip on his shoulder into the season, especially going against the Lakers.

Goes to show you that Lebron doesn't have all the power with the Lakers like he did back with the Cavs

No it’s just that him and his agent have made up 75% of the Lakers as Clutch Sports clients 🙄

Lebron is absolutely running the show in LA.

You sure?  I think its up to a limit.

If Lebron had such control, explain why they didn't bring in his boy Thompson.  They had the money and instead signed Harrell

I mean, I think he would be a Laker right now if Lebron really only wanted his guys. Getting Harrell not only makes a rival weaker but Harrell is a much more productive offensive player.

but he is a mediocre defender in the playoffs. He was benched in 2nd half of games vs the Nuggets for a reason
yeah because he couldn't guard a massively stronger and bigger player that just happens to be elite.  That was much more about the Clippers terrible roster construction than anything else.  Harrell would have been fine if he was guarding someone like Millsap, but he couldn't handle Jokic.  That will be much less an issue for the Lakers where Harrell will be on the floor with a legit 7 foot elite defender basically at all times (either Davis or Gasol).

confused

why couldn't the Clippers play Zubac and Harrell?

Even if Jokic is bigger, Harrell lacked "fight". No clutch offensive rebounds. No boxing out harder to get inside position

He was just roaming out on the perimeter on the offensive end. Can't even shoot the 3 very well

On defense he would let Jokic do whatever he wanted. He didn't really go up to his face to bother him.  He was guarding him in no mans land. Jokic will torch you then
because Zubac isn't good enough to play much against good teams and then they can't have PG or Kawhi on the floor since they can't really play SG.  It was a Clippers roster problem, the Lakers don't have that problem.

I wonder why you're blaming Zubac when he was the only big who was capable of defending Jokic. Given how slow and ineffective Gasol looked against the Celtics, what makes you think that he's good enough to fill the void Dwight will leave. Besides Harell may be better on offense than Thompson but he's worse on defense based on his performance in the playoffs.
I wasn't.  I was just pointing out facts.  Neither Zubac or Harrell could effectively guard Jokic, but that is all the Clippers had available to try and they couldn't really play them together because they don't fit and then you have to take Kawhi or George off the floor.

The simple reality is the Clippers had a big time roster flaw and they had it all year.  They had enough talent to get by in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.  Ibaka is a better fit for them than Harrell was, so I think they will be better next year, but they also still have a terrible backcourt and not much size (Zubac and Ibaka are it).  Frankly, they have many of the same issues the C's have in the front court and also having their two best players both being natural SF's.  When crunch time comes against great teams, you are always going to have at least 1 guy playing out of position, and that is problematic long term.

I'e never understood this logic.

Whenever there is a mismatch, it goes both ways. One player is bigger and one is smaller. Who wins depends on who is better at taking advantage. A smaller guy can absolutely win a matchup. Kawhi Leonard found a way to outplay Giannis a couple of years ago. Its about being able to make plays under pressure. Even if you are playing a better player, you find a way to be a problem and do what you can.

Harrell failed because he got outcompeted. Jokic is slower. Harrell had a physical advantage too, and he couldn't find a way to exploit it.

The C's have Jaylen and Marcus. They can cover almost anyone, and they won't pout if they get beat once or twice. Its an advantage because they are better at mismatches than almost anyone else in the league. That's why they are so valuable.
It doesn't necessarily go both ways.  Depends on the skill sets.  I mean Davis is quick enough that he can guard George fairly well, but PG can't guard AD in the post.  Yet they are both PF's for their teams.  That is what I mean.  The Clippers have a poorly constructed roster, though Ibaka does improve upon the low post deficiencies they had last year.  They still have issues down low, but not as many. And Ibaka can actually play with both Zubac and George, unlike Harrell who really couldn't play with Zubac at all.  Those two were not a good match skill set wise.   That is why I think Harrell will do better with the Lakers as I think his skill set fits much better with Gasol and Davis then he did with Zubac and George providing more roster fluidity and match-up tinkering.  For all the love that James and Davis got (mostly deserved), the Lakers were able to win the title so easily because they had a really deep team that allowed them to play situational basketball better than anyone else and I think they've actually gotten better in that regard.  The Lakers are justifiably heavy favorites to repeat and adding Harrell is a reason why as he provides some much needed scoring pop to their bench.

I'm not sure if Harrell will be a great fit, the loss of Dwight and Rondo will no doubt hurt. Besides Gasol looked slow against the Celtics and is only getting older. The Lakers would've been best served to add Ibaka for spacing.
since Gasol really started taking 3's he has been a better and more consistent 3 point shooter than Ibaka.  So they got the correct guy for spacing. Gasol is also a significantly better passer.
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the guy with the lower career 3 point percentage is the better 3 point shooter.  They are pretty much equal as floor spacers.  Gasol looked very slow and out of shape in the bubble.  You could see his gut through his jersey and his arms were flabby.  I'm guessing he will be in much better shape next season and will be quicker than he was in the bubble.
So since the 2017 season these are their 3 PT%

Gasol
38.8
34.1
36.3
38.5

Total last 4 seasons 36.6% on 1009 attempts with a range of only 4.7%

Ibaka
39.1
36.0
29.0
38.5

Total last 4 years 36.3% on 965 attempts, but a range of 10.1%

So Gasol is hitting at a slightly better rate, has been more consistent in his percentages, and in addition he is taking more than Ibaka over that time period. 

Thus, since Gasol started regularly taking 3 pointers he is in fact the better 3 point shooter.
Yeah, or consider the 29% year a fluke year like I do, subtract it, and Ibaka is much better than Gasol.

I don't know.  If you edit out Ibaka's worst year (he probably was injured or something) why not filter out Gasol's worst year too?  His "bad" year was about 34% vs. Ibaka's bad year at 29%.  Do that and the average of remaining 3 seasons is about dead on equal with remarkably similar volume of shots.  I don't think these numbers lead to a conclusion that Ibaka is a better 3pt shooter than Gasol.

If you watched a lot of the games, maybe Ibaka's shots were more contested or more clutch, numbers don't always tell the whole story.  I admit that and I am actually in general a big skeptic of looking only at numbers.  But if you do look just at these numbers, it is not possible to conclude that they say Ibaka is a better 3pt shooter than Gasol.

Re: Tristan Thompson signing with Cs
« Reply #254 on: December 03, 2020, 06:29:21 PM »

Offline moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7640
  • Tommy Points: 441
Didn't it seem like Thompson was destined to sign with the Lakers and Lebron James this off-season? Don't you think he would have if Harrell hadn't signed there?

I seriously wonder if Thompson will bring a major chip on his shoulder into the season, especially going against the Lakers.

Goes to show you that Lebron doesn't have all the power with the Lakers like he did back with the Cavs

No it’s just that him and his agent have made up 75% of the Lakers as Clutch Sports clients 🙄

Lebron is absolutely running the show in LA.

You sure?  I think its up to a limit.

If Lebron had such control, explain why they didn't bring in his boy Thompson.  They had the money and instead signed Harrell

I mean, I think he would be a Laker right now if Lebron really only wanted his guys. Getting Harrell not only makes a rival weaker but Harrell is a much more productive offensive player.

but he is a mediocre defender in the playoffs. He was benched in 2nd half of games vs the Nuggets for a reason
yeah because he couldn't guard a massively stronger and bigger player that just happens to be elite.  That was much more about the Clippers terrible roster construction than anything else.  Harrell would have been fine if he was guarding someone like Millsap, but he couldn't handle Jokic.  That will be much less an issue for the Lakers where Harrell will be on the floor with a legit 7 foot elite defender basically at all times (either Davis or Gasol).

confused

why couldn't the Clippers play Zubac and Harrell?

Even if Jokic is bigger, Harrell lacked "fight". No clutch offensive rebounds. No boxing out harder to get inside position

He was just roaming out on the perimeter on the offensive end. Can't even shoot the 3 very well

On defense he would let Jokic do whatever he wanted. He didn't really go up to his face to bother him.  He was guarding him in no mans land. Jokic will torch you then
because Zubac isn't good enough to play much against good teams and then they can't have PG or Kawhi on the floor since they can't really play SG.  It was a Clippers roster problem, the Lakers don't have that problem.

I wonder why you're blaming Zubac when he was the only big who was capable of defending Jokic. Given how slow and ineffective Gasol looked against the Celtics, what makes you think that he's good enough to fill the void Dwight will leave. Besides Harell may be better on offense than Thompson but he's worse on defense based on his performance in the playoffs.
I wasn't.  I was just pointing out facts.  Neither Zubac or Harrell could effectively guard Jokic, but that is all the Clippers had available to try and they couldn't really play them together because they don't fit and then you have to take Kawhi or George off the floor.

The simple reality is the Clippers had a big time roster flaw and they had it all year.  They had enough talent to get by in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.  Ibaka is a better fit for them than Harrell was, so I think they will be better next year, but they also still have a terrible backcourt and not much size (Zubac and Ibaka are it).  Frankly, they have many of the same issues the C's have in the front court and also having their two best players both being natural SF's.  When crunch time comes against great teams, you are always going to have at least 1 guy playing out of position, and that is problematic long term.

I'e never understood this logic.

Whenever there is a mismatch, it goes both ways. One player is bigger and one is smaller. Who wins depends on who is better at taking advantage. A smaller guy can absolutely win a matchup. Kawhi Leonard found a way to outplay Giannis a couple of years ago. Its about being able to make plays under pressure. Even if you are playing a better player, you find a way to be a problem and do what you can.

Harrell failed because he got outcompeted. Jokic is slower. Harrell had a physical advantage too, and he couldn't find a way to exploit it.

The C's have Jaylen and Marcus. They can cover almost anyone, and they won't pout if they get beat once or twice. Its an advantage because they are better at mismatches than almost anyone else in the league. That's why they are so valuable.
It doesn't necessarily go both ways.  Depends on the skill sets.  I mean Davis is quick enough that he can guard George fairly well, but PG can't guard AD in the post.  Yet they are both PF's for their teams.  That is what I mean.  The Clippers have a poorly constructed roster, though Ibaka does improve upon the low post deficiencies they had last year.  They still have issues down low, but not as many. And Ibaka can actually play with both Zubac and George, unlike Harrell who really couldn't play with Zubac at all.  Those two were not a good match skill set wise.   That is why I think Harrell will do better with the Lakers as I think his skill set fits much better with Gasol and Davis then he did with Zubac and George providing more roster fluidity and match-up tinkering.  For all the love that James and Davis got (mostly deserved), the Lakers were able to win the title so easily because they had a really deep team that allowed them to play situational basketball better than anyone else and I think they've actually gotten better in that regard.  The Lakers are justifiably heavy favorites to repeat and adding Harrell is a reason why as he provides some much needed scoring pop to their bench.

I'm not sure if Harrell will be a great fit, the loss of Dwight and Rondo will no doubt hurt. Besides Gasol looked slow against the Celtics and is only getting older. The Lakers would've been best served to add Ibaka for spacing.
since Gasol really started taking 3's he has been a better and more consistent 3 point shooter than Ibaka.  So they got the correct guy for spacing. Gasol is also a significantly better passer.
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the guy with the lower career 3 point percentage is the better 3 point shooter.  They are pretty much equal as floor spacers.  Gasol looked very slow and out of shape in the bubble.  You could see his gut through his jersey and his arms were flabby.  I'm guessing he will be in much better shape next season and will be quicker than he was in the bubble.
So since the 2017 season these are their 3 PT%

Gasol
38.8
34.1
36.3
38.5

Total last 4 seasons 36.6% on 1009 attempts with a range of only 4.7%

Ibaka
39.1
36.0
29.0
38.5

Total last 4 years 36.3% on 965 attempts, but a range of 10.1%

So Gasol is hitting at a slightly better rate, has been more consistent in his percentages, and in addition he is taking more than Ibaka over that time period. 

Thus, since Gasol started regularly taking 3 pointers he is in fact the better 3 point shooter.
Yeah, or consider the 29% year a fluke year like I do, subtract it, and Ibaka is much better than Gasol.

I don't know.  If you edit out Ibaka's worst year (he probably was injured or something) why not filter out Gasol's worst year too?  His "bad" year was about 34% vs. Ibaka's bad year at 29%.  Do that and the average of remaining 3 seasons is about dead on equal with remarkably similar volume of shots.  I don't think these numbers lead to a conclusion that Ibaka is a better 3pt shooter than Gasol.

If you watched a lot of the games, maybe Ibaka's shots were more contested or more clutch, numbers don't always tell the whole story.  I admit that and I am actually in general a big skeptic of looking only at numbers.  But if you do look just at these numbers, it is not possible to conclude that they say Ibaka is a better 3pt shooter than Gasol.
I don't really think that Ibaka is better, I think they are pretty equal as 3 point shooters.  I was just disputing Moranis claiming that Gasol is the better 3 point option despite Ibaka having the higher career percentage.