Author Topic: I need legal advise (civil matter)  (Read 18709 times)

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Re: I need legal advise (civil matter)
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2009, 02:58:43 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I've been on both ends of this.  That's the problem when there is no writing. 

My buddy got a divorce and needed someone to rent the extra room.  Initially I had agreed to pay $400 + half of all the utilities/cable/etc.   On the day I was set to move in we verbally agreed that I would just pay him a flat amount of $650 a month including everything.  I considered it a little high for a small room... he probably considered it a little low considering what he was paying for the Condo.   But regardless, that arrangement moved along smoothly for about a year. 

Then his brother got out of the army and needed a place to stay.  He started crashing on our couch.   That same month his friend got back from a Eurotrip and also needed a place to crash... he started sleeping on the other couch.   My friend started charging them both $150 each to rent the couches.   Unfortunately my rent stayed the same... $650.   

I wasn't very happy with this.

My perspective: I went from paying $650 to share a 2 bedroom condo with 1 person to paying $650 to share a 2 bedroom condo with 3 people + his girlfriend that was constantly there.

Their perspective:  I was renting the room for $650 so the rest of the living situation was irrelevant.

I suddenly had to share a bathroom with two other guys, the condo was constantly a mess... they would both stay up drinking all night playing WoW in the livingroom and watching the big screen TV.  Then they would sleep all day so by the time I got back from work at 5:00pm they were still sleeping and would get angry at me if I wanted to turn on the TV and watch the Celtics.  "You have a TV in your room!  Watch it in there!"...    This lasted for a couple months until the electricity bill came...

Turns out, when you have two guys sitting on two desktop computers playing WoW and watching a 65 inch TV all night, plus doubling the dishes, laundry, etc... the electricity bill has a tendency to spike.  The bill was for $500... my roommate (the original guy) demanded that we all chip in.   I basically told him, "no way.  You're crazy.  I agreed to pay you $650 flat per month... I'm not going to get punished for you renting out the couches".   

He thought he was right... I thought I was right.  He basically said, "pay up or leave" and eventually I got so angry with the situation that I decided to respond by refusing to pay him any rent at all.  He threatened to call the police and have me forcefully removed.  I responded by calling the police and verifying that he would actually have to give me a written notice and at least a month to leave.    To sum up, I ended up staying there for an extra month for free... and basically took $650 from him.   I rationalized it as "back pay" for the 3 months I had to live with those slobs.  Bottom line is that if nothing is in writing, you usually can't do anything about it...

We're back to being good friends again.  As mentioned before... friends and business (or friends living together) is typically a really bad idea.

If my friends ever need a place to stay I always tell them I have a spare room if they wanna crash for a couple weeks.

If they wanna stay longer I say no, find your own place. We're not allowed to pick up a third roommate (total lie).

If they wanna pay rent I tell them they're my friend, they stay gratis. If they want to say thank you I accept steaks and booze.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: I need legal advise (civil matter)
« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2009, 12:53:45 PM »

Offline JSD

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New Scenario:

My friend had his debit card stolen with the thief ringing up $500 worth of goods. Evan (my buddy) has since frozen his card and is now awaiting bank investigation. If he finds the person that stole his card, what can he get out of it?

My advice to him:

Quote
It's possible the person using your card was sloppy. Call the place's he or she went and ask if they have surveillance, this person could have pulled into a gas station (plate showing and all) and swiped your card for a pack of butts. Link the time the card was swiped with the security video and you might have your jerk. The person is on camera somewhere, it's just a matter of where.

He called the Liquor store the card was used and they are going to the tapes. After that, he'll be able to produce physical evidence of the crime... Then he'll call the police and go through the criminal prosecuting process and then pursue a civil trial. How much money can he get?

Re: I need legal advise (civil matter)
« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2009, 01:03:32 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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$500, which will cost at least $25,000 in legal fees to collect.

Re: I need legal advise (civil matter)
« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2009, 01:08:21 PM »

Offline Chris

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New Scenario:

My friend had his debit card stolen with the thief ringing up $500 worth of goods. Evan (my buddy) has since frozen his card and is now awaiting bank investigation. If he finds the person that stole his card, what can he get out of it?

My advice to him:

Quote
It's possible the person using your card was sloppy. Call the place's he or she went and ask if they have surveillance, this person could have pulled into a gas station (plate showing and all) and swiped your card for a pack of butts. Link the time the card was swiped with the security video and you might have your jerk. The person is on camera somewhere, it's just a matter of where.

He called the Liquor store the card was used and they are going to the tapes. After that, he'll be able to produce physical evidence of the crime... Then he'll call the police and go through the criminal prosecuting process and then pursue a civil trial. How much money can he get?

Has he followed up with the bank?  A lot of times they have protection for these sorts of things. 

It is probably more trouble than it is worth to pursue a civil trial over this himself.

Re: I need legal advise (civil matter)
« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2009, 01:11:07 PM »

Offline JSD

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New Scenario:

My friend had his debit card stolen with the thief ringing up $500 worth of goods. Evan (my buddy) has since frozen his card and is now awaiting bank investigation. If he finds the person that stole his card, what can he get out of it?

My advice to him:

Quote
It's possible the person using your card was sloppy. Call the place's he or she went and ask if they have surveillance, this person could have pulled into a gas station (plate showing and all) and swiped your card for a pack of butts. Link the time the card was swiped with the security video and you might have your jerk. The person is on camera somewhere, it's just a matter of where.

He called the Liquor store the card was used and they are going to the tapes. After that, he'll be able to produce physical evidence of the crime... Then he'll call the police and go through the criminal prosecuting process and then pursue a civil trial. How much money can he get?

Has he followed up with the bank?  A lot of times they have protection for these sorts of things. 

It is probably more trouble than it is worth to pursue a civil trial over this himself.

Yeah, his bank will be reimbursing him the money. I wasn't sure if there was any other type of civil opportunity for him to really hit this dirt-bag hard and get a compensated for the headache. I suppose that's the criminal prosecutors job.

Re: I need legal advise (civil matter)
« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2009, 03:11:53 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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New Scenario:

My friend had his debit card stolen with the thief ringing up $500 worth of goods. Evan (my buddy) has since frozen his card and is now awaiting bank investigation. If he finds the person that stole his card, what can he get out of it?

My advice to him:

Quote
It's possible the person using your card was sloppy. Call the place's he or she went and ask if they have surveillance, this person could have pulled into a gas station (plate showing and all) and swiped your card for a pack of butts. Link the time the card was swiped with the security video and you might have your jerk. The person is on camera somewhere, it's just a matter of where.

He called the Liquor store the card was used and they are going to the tapes. After that, he'll be able to produce physical evidence of the crime... Then he'll call the police and go through the criminal prosecuting process and then pursue a civil trial. How much money can he get?

Has he followed up with the bank?  A lot of times they have protection for these sorts of things. 

It is probably more trouble than it is worth to pursue a civil trial over this himself.

Yeah, his bank will be reimbursing him the money. I wasn't sure if there was any other type of civil opportunity for him to really hit this dirt-bag hard and get a compensated for the headache. I suppose that's the criminal prosecutors job.

Like a reward?  No, there's not, and if at trial the criminal is ordered to pay restitution, he'd be paying it to the bank, as your friend isn't out of pocket at all (since the bank is refunding the fraudulent purchases).

Generally, unless there is a statute either allowing punitive damages or double/treble damages, the goal of the justice system is to make a plaintiff "whole".  Your friend has already been made whole, so it's a waste of everyone's time.

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Re: I need legal advise (civil matter)
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2009, 03:28:42 PM »

Offline Chris

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New Scenario:

My friend had his debit card stolen with the thief ringing up $500 worth of goods. Evan (my buddy) has since frozen his card and is now awaiting bank investigation. If he finds the person that stole his card, what can he get out of it?

My advice to him:

Quote
It's possible the person using your card was sloppy. Call the place's he or she went and ask if they have surveillance, this person could have pulled into a gas station (plate showing and all) and swiped your card for a pack of butts. Link the time the card was swiped with the security video and you might have your jerk. The person is on camera somewhere, it's just a matter of where.

He called the Liquor store the card was used and they are going to the tapes. After that, he'll be able to produce physical evidence of the crime... Then he'll call the police and go through the criminal prosecuting process and then pursue a civil trial. How much money can he get?

Has he followed up with the bank?  A lot of times they have protection for these sorts of things. 

It is probably more trouble than it is worth to pursue a civil trial over this himself.

Yeah, his bank will be reimbursing him the money. I wasn't sure if there was any other type of civil opportunity for him to really hit this dirt-bag hard and get a compensated for the headache. I suppose that's the criminal prosecutors job.

Like a reward?  No, there's not, and if at trial the criminal is ordered to pay restitution, he'd be paying it to the bank, as your friend isn't out of pocket at all (since the bank is refunding the fraudulent purchases).

Generally, unless there is a statute either allowing punitive damages or double/treble damages, the goal of the justice system is to make a plaintiff "whole".  Your friend has already been made whole, so it's a waste of everyone's time.

What if he was emotionally scarred from having to listen to Genesis for 3 hours while waiting on hold with his bank to get his money back?  Then can he sue?

Re: I need legal advise (civil matter)
« Reply #67 on: November 05, 2009, 03:10:58 PM »

Offline Schupac

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New Scenario:

My friend had his debit card stolen with the thief ringing up $500 worth of goods. Evan (my buddy) has since frozen his card and is now awaiting bank investigation. If he finds the person that stole his card, what can he get out of it?

My advice to him:

Quote
It's possible the person using your card was sloppy. Call the place's he or she went and ask if they have surveillance, this person could have pulled into a gas station (plate showing and all) and swiped your card for a pack of butts. Link the time the card was swiped with the security video and you might have your jerk. The person is on camera somewhere, it's just a matter of where.

He called the Liquor store the card was used and they are going to the tapes. After that, he'll be able to produce physical evidence of the crime... Then he'll call the police and go through the criminal prosecuting process and then pursue a civil trial. How much money can he get?

Has he followed up with the bank?  A lot of times they have protection for these sorts of things. 

It is probably more trouble than it is worth to pursue a civil trial over this himself.

Yeah, his bank will be reimbursing him the money. I wasn't sure if there was any other type of civil opportunity for him to really hit this dirt-bag hard and get a compensated for the headache. I suppose that's the criminal prosecutors job.

Like a reward?  No, there's not, and if at trial the criminal is ordered to pay restitution, he'd be paying it to the bank, as your friend isn't out of pocket at all (since the bank is refunding the fraudulent purchases).

Generally, unless there is a statute either allowing punitive damages or double/treble damages, the goal of the justice system is to make a plaintiff "whole".  Your friend has already been made whole, so it's a waste of everyone's time.

What if he was emotionally scarred from having to listen to Genesis for 3 hours while waiting on hold with his bank to get his money back?  Then can he sue?

Genesis?  I WISH my employer had Genesis on our hold lines.  All we have is commercials for our own products... talk about classy.  Some customer has $1500 stolen from them and we bombard them with advertisements while they sit on hold for 30 minutes as the customer service rep shops their call around trying to find someone, anyone that doesn't immediately say 'that's not my job'.

Hah!



In regards to the original post, I was in an opposite situation.  I was renting month to month with a friendly acquaintance of a land lord.  The rent was cheap, but the neighborhood was pretty bad, and he did zero maintenance on the house in over 2 years.  When I talked to him about doing some repairs he said that that was my problem (he said it nicer than that) to which I stated, not really chief.  His idea of a compromise was to pay for supplies while I did the work.  I told him what I get paid by the hour at work, and he didn't want to pay for that.

So, I let the house get worse around me because frankly I didn't care and it was easier to not deal with some of the problems.  I moved out ~5 months ago.  Even though I was mad at him, I cleaned the house up thoroughly when I left, which is much better treatment than I got when I moved in.  He called me and told me he was going to have to bill me for damages.

Now, I didn't fix things in the house like the roofing tiles, the rotted awning over the porch, the broken shed door (broken by someone kicking it in and stealing a... wait for it... broken lawn mower.), etc.  He told me all that was working when he left.  That was over 5 years ago.  He got kind of upset but then I pointed out to him I had never signed a lease agreement of any kind.  He got all huffy but ultimately had no choice.

Happy ending: My new place is great, and in a safe neighborhood.  By coincidence, I know the person that moved into the old house after me.  He pays $200 less a month in rent, so my landlord is getting what it is worth.