Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[Big333223]

Dereliction of duty tonight or tough love to the bench guys?

A little of both.  I don't mind a coach choosing to let the bench finish things out in a meaningless game.  At the same time, I think a loss tonight might add to the "blow big leads" narrative, which can lead to less confidence.

But, the way it worked out was good, with the bench both scoring a game winner and defending against one.

Yes it's one of those "the result will determine if it was a good idea or not" types of decisions   

The bench guys almost never get an opportunity to be in a game situation with those stakes. Good experience for them. Hopefully it means they'll be sharper for when they're needed in the playoffs.

[Roy H.]

Dereliction of duty tonight or tough love to the bench guys?

A little of both.  I don't mind a coach choosing to let the bench finish things out in a meaningless game.  At the same time, I think a loss tonight might add to the "blow big leads" narrative, which can lead to less confidence.

But, the way it worked out was good, with the bench both scoring a game winner and defending against one.

Yes it's one of those "the result will determine if it was a good idea or not" types of decisions   

The bench guys almost never get an opportunity to be in a game situation with those stakes. Good experience for them. Hopefully it means they'll be sharper for when they're needed in the playoffs.

Let's hope they have selective memories, where they can remember the Tilman winner and the defensive stop, but forget the blown lead.

[ozgod]

Dereliction of duty tonight or tough love to the bench guys?

A little of both.  I don't mind a coach choosing to let the bench finish things out in a meaningless game.  At the same time, I think a loss tonight might add to the "blow big leads" narrative, which can lead to less confidence.

But, the way it worked out was good, with the bench both scoring a game winner and defending against one.

Yes it's one of those "the result will determine if it was a good idea or not" types of decisions   

The bench guys almost never get an opportunity to be in a game situation with those stakes. Good experience for them. Hopefully it means they'll be sharper for when they're needed in the playoffs.

Let's hope they have selective memories, where they can remember the Tilman winner and the defensive stop, but forget the blown lead.

In a funny way I actually hope Joe keeps reminding them of that blown lead...make them watch the video over and over again to hammer into them what caused them to blow it, that's really where the learning is. The win is the feelgood part of it, giving up a 19-3 run is certainly not 

[jambr380]

Even if we didn't win, it was still the right decision to roll with our 2nd and 3rd stringers there. If we had put the starters back in at like 3 minutes, it would have shown that we cared or felt some sort of panic. I'm glad the team was able to hold on and provide a feel-good moment for the whole team. But it literally didn't matter.

Otoh, Kings fans were fuming that they didn't get a foul call on the last put-back attempt. This after Fox took at least 4 steps to get his shot off. I feel for them, they are desperately trying to win to avoid the play-in, but it was funny reading how upset they got when we were pretty much actively trying to throw the game. It's like, if you guys really want it, I guess you can have it. Just chill out - we're all just trying to have a good time here.

[Neurotic Guy]

Dereliction of duty tonight or tough love to the bench guys?

A little of both.  I don't mind a coach choosing to let the bench finish things out in a meaningless game.  At the same time, I think a loss tonight might add to the "blow big leads" narrative, which can lead to less confidence.

But, the way it worked out was good, with the bench both scoring a game winner and defending against one.

Yes it's one of those "the result will determine if it was a good idea or not" types of decisions   

The bench guys almost never get an opportunity to be in a game situation with those stakes. Good experience for them. Hopefully it means they'll be sharper for when they're needed in the playoffs.

Let's hope they have selective memories, where they can remember the Tilman winner and the defensive stop, but forget the blown lead.

Contrast with how they’d feel if the Tillman shot didn’t go or Sac made the GW shot.  The memory would be pure failure, letdown, embarrassment.  So it’s good they have this memory even if it’s selective.

[tenn_smoothie]

The way this reads cracks me up, even if it likely wasn't his intent:

Jared Weiss: Derrick White on Joe Mazzulla winning coach of the month: “Staff’s been amazing. Joe’s been solid.”

Pure Freudian slip - he might not have intended it consciously, but he meant it.
One of our top BBIQ guys and his comment comes out very lukewarm, if you look at it honestly.
I have always thought there had to be at least a few of the players who see how incompetent Joe is.
Gotta think there are occasional, late nite, road-trip hotel conversations among select Celtics where our head coach is discussed.

Careful Tennessee, your biases are showing in your over-interpretation

What biases are those ?
I'm biased alright, my opinion of Joe Mazzulla is that he is an incompetent head coach in way over his head.

I’ve worked with people I thought were incompetent. Under no circumstances could you have gotten me to describe any of them as “solid” even if I was backed into a corner and had to say something positive.  But you may be right that it was purposely or subconsciously not as enthusiastic as his assessment of ‘the staff’.  There’s a distance between that and DW suggesting that Joe is incompetent.

I don't think White was trying to covertly communicate a message that he viewed Mazzulla as incompetent. What I am suggesting is that he got halfway thru his comment of praising the assistants and when including the head coach in his remarks, out came a lukewarm response that inadvertently reflected his true opinion. I'm not searching for clues that the players are turning on Joe - I want a title this year like all of us. But White's comment did strike me as a little off and he obviously understands the game better than most.

[SHAQATTACK]

The way this reads cracks me up, even if it likely wasn't his intent:

Jared Weiss: Derrick White on Joe Mazzulla winning coach of the month: “Staff’s been amazing. Joe’s been solid.”

Pure Freudian slip - he might not have intended it consciously, but he meant it.
One of our top BBIQ guys and his comment comes out very lukewarm, if you look at it honestly.
I have always thought there had to be at least a few of the players who see how incompetent Joe is.
Gotta think there are occasional, late nite, road-trip hotel conversations among select Celtics where our head coach is discussed.

Careful Tennessee, your biases are showing in your over-interpretation

What biases are those ?
I'm biased alright, my opinion of Joe Mazzulla is that he is an incompetent head coach in way over his head.

I’ve worked with people I thought were incompetent. Under no circumstances could you have gotten me to describe any of them as “solid” even if I was backed into a corner and had to say something positive.  But you may be right that it was purposely or subconsciously not as enthusiastic as his assessment of ‘the staff’.  There’s a distance between that and DW suggesting that Joe is incompetent.

I don't think White was trying to covertly communicate a message that he viewed Mazzulla as incompetent. What I am suggesting is that he got halfway thru his comment of praising the assistants and when including the head coach in his remarks, out came a lukewarm response that inadvertently reflected his true opinion. I'm not searching for clues that the players are turning on Joe - I want a title this year like all of us. But White's comment did strike me as a little off and he obviously understands the game better than most.

Why didn’t White  sing praises for Joe , like Joe is so wonderful , he always makes the right calls , Joe is the best ever , Joes unshakable, etc.  To me those beliefs didn’t exists in Whites mind and oh yeah Joes solid too is a secondary respect.  Like saying , yeah Miss America is ok looking .  ….

[Roy H.]

To me those beliefs didn’t exists in Whites mind

I think White's statement was funny when you read into it, but I think trying to project what was in somebody's head is always a spotty exercise.  For all we know, White just lost his train of thought for a second.

[green_bballers13]

To me those beliefs didn’t exists in Whites mind

I think White's statement was funny when you read into it, but I think trying to project what was in somebody's head is always a spotty exercise.  For all we know, White just lost his train of thought for a second.

Also, what is wrong with what he said? He's accurate. Joe has been solid. That is good enough for a 2nd year coach. Once again, the unhappy should direct their animus at Ime, not Joe.

[SparzWizard]

Whether what White said is ominous or not, it still does not change the fact that Joe is an incompetent coach.

He is winning in spite of the team.

[Silas]

Whether what White said is ominous or not, it still does not change the fact that Joe is an incompetent coach.

He is winning in spite of the team.

Joe is not an incompetent coach, and you know he has the NBA's best winning percentage of any coach, winning over 74 percent of the time.  You may not like his style or his approach to the game but his record disproves your statement that he is incompetent.  The bus does not drive itself.

[Vermont Green]

Whether what White said is ominous or not, it still does not change the fact that Joe is an incompetent coach.

He is winning in spite of the team.

Joe is not an incompetent coach, and you know he has the NBA's best winning percentage of any coach, winning over 74 percent of the time.  You may not like his style or his approach to the game but his record disproves your statement that he is incompetent.  The bus does not drive itself.

Coach of the Month last month. 5th in Coach of the Year last season. It seems there are a lot of people who don’t see him as incompetent. Yes, the team is really good and would probably be good with other coaches. But that doesn’t make Mazzulla a bad coach.  People are not changing their mind at this point I guess.

[green_bballers13]

Whether what White said is ominous or not, it still does not change the fact that Joe is an incompetent coach.

He is winning in spite of the team.

Joe is not an incompetent coach, and you know he has the NBA's best winning percentage of any coach, winning over 74 percent of the time.  You may not like his style or his approach to the game but his record disproves your statement that he is incompetent.  The bus does not drive itself.

Coach of the Month last month. 5th in Coach of the Year last season. It seems there are a lot of people who don’t see him as incompetent. Yes, the team is really good and would probably be good with other coaches. But that doesn’t make Mazzulla a bad coach. People are not changing their mind at this point I guess.

Yes, just because he's not the best does not mean he is the worst. I don't think there are any incompetent coaches at this level. None that casual fans can identify.

[Phantom255x]

Whether what White said is ominous or not, it still does not change the fact that Joe is an incompetent coach.

He is winning in spite of the team.

Joe is not an incompetent coach, and you know he has the NBA's best winning percentage of any coach, winning over 74 percent of the time.  You may not like his style or his approach to the game but his record disproves your statement that he is incompetent.  The bus does not drive itself.

Coach of the Month last month. 5th in Coach of the Year last season. It seems there are a lot of people who don’t see him as incompetent. Yes, the team is really good and would probably be good with other coaches. But that doesn’t make Mazzulla a bad coach. People are not changing their mind at this point I guess.

Yes, just because he's not the best does not mean he is the worst. I don't think there are any incompetent coaches at this level. None that casual fans can identify.

Also, there are "Fire CBS" and "Ime needs to go" threads here as well. Lets not kid ourselves, even if we had Spo, Nurse or Popovich people would have criticisms about them too. At some point, as @nickagneta used to say, it's on the players. The core needs to step up and get over the hump. Can't always be blaming the coaching or the system. For reference, even the Nuggets, Jokic and coach Malone dealt with this criticism until they officially won it all last season, now they are some "standard" for the NBA to follow. And I'm not mocking that, it's completely true. They got over the hump. But now it's on the C's players particularly the Jays to get over the hump and win Banner 18.

[Goldstar88]

Whether what White said is ominous or not, it still does not change the fact that Joe is an incompetent coach.

He is winning in spite of the team.

Joe is not an incompetent coach, and you know he has the NBA's best winning percentage of any coach, winning over 74 percent of the time.  You may not like his style or his approach to the game but his record disproves your statement that he is incompetent.  The bus does not drive itself.

Coach of the Month last month. 5th in Coach of the Year last season. It seems there are a lot of people who don’t see him as incompetent. Yes, the team is really good and would probably be good with other coaches. But that doesn’t make Mazzulla a bad coach. People are not changing their mind at this point I guess.

Yes, just because he's not the best does not mean he is the worst. I don't think there are any incompetent coaches at this level. None that casual fans can identify.

Also, there are "Fire CBS" and "Ime needs to go" threads here as well. Lets not kid ourselves, even if we had Spo, Nurse or Popovich people would have criticisms about them too. At some point, as @nickagneta used to say, it's on the players. The core needs to step up and get over the hump. Can't always be blaming the coaching or the system. For reference, even the Nuggets, Jokic and coach Malone dealt with this criticism until they officially won it all last season, now they are some "standard" for the NBA to follow. And I'm not mocking that, it's completely true. They got over the hump. But now it's on the C's players particularly the Jays to get over the hump and win Banner 18.

Well said, Phantom. TP