Author Topic: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa  (Read 34051 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« on: June 25, 2008, 02:39:03 PM »

Offline Smitty

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 323
  • Tommy Points: 11
I have a question.  I tried to do this trade on RealGM and it rejected it for not being within 125%, which does NOT make sense.  Barbosa is due 6.1 mill. for next year and Diaw is due 9.00 mill., totalling 15.1.  Allen is due 17.39 mill. for next year.  This should be well within 125% of each other.  Why is this getting rejected?

What do you think of this trade?  We would likely have to throw in our #1 in 2010 or 2011, whichever is allowed.

Thoughts?

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2008, 02:41:02 PM »

Offline KeepDWest

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 626
  • Tommy Points: 24
i say we stick with the same team that was the best team in the NBA this year all year
"and when I let them carry me to the cemetary i wanna be buried with a pocketful of clarity" - slug

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2008, 02:41:18 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
they'd be fools to take it, even with the number one pick. both those guys are young players they can build around, and they'd have to deal with rays contract for 2 years.

might be viable in a year, when they can get ray as a rental and have good cap space after the season, assuming they don't stay high on them.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2008, 02:44:41 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13009
  • Tommy Points: 816
I wouldent do it personally for us even without the picks.  Diaw is somebody i have never been impressed with.  I think he is really a product of that system and having steve nash as a pointguard.  Barbosa is good, but if we have pruitt and rondo, im not sure what need he fills.  I really think diaw will have a significant drop off though when he leaves nash. 
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2008, 02:46:00 PM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47136
  • Tommy Points: 2401
If I'm Phoenix I do it in a heartbeat

For Boston? Ehhh .... first reaction was goodness no. Second reaction was that's not so crazy. Third reaction with their youth there would be some benefits. Fourth reaction - it's  not worth doing. Both players are solid but neither add up to the value of a Ray Allen.

i say we stick with the same team that was the best team in the NBA this year all year
This thinking has a lot of merit. Unless it's a completely clear and substantial upgrade Danny shouldn't mess around with the core of the team. Barbosa and Diaw aren't a clear and substantial upgrade.

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2008, 02:46:19 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

  • In The Rafters
  • The Natural
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33333
  • Tommy Points: 6430
  • Doc could learn a thing or two from Norman Dale
I have a question.  I tried to do this trade on RealGM and it rejected it for not being within 125%, which does NOT make sense.  Barbosa is due 6.1 mill. for next year and Diaw is due 9.00 mill., totalling 15.1.  Allen is due 17.39 mill. for next year.  This should be well within 125% of each other.  Why is this getting rejected?

What do you think of this trade?  We would likely have to throw in our #1 in 2010 or 2011, whichever is allowed.

Thoughts?

Are either Diaw or Barbosa in the first year of their deals?  If so, I almost guarantee it's an issue with Base Year Compensation, which basically limits your ability to trade guys on first year deals who just got big raises. 

See here:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2008, 02:47:48 PM »

Offline Smitty

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 323
  • Tommy Points: 11
Crownsy,

I completely understand that this is much MORE hopeful than realistic.  That being said, I believe that Ray would flourish with Nash getting him the ball in his sweet spots.  Also, Ray just put up MVP numbers in the NBA Finals, which might has gotten a few people to think again about whether Ray Ray is really as finished as many thought.

Smitty

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2008, 02:48:44 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
would you who? im not so sure id be super high on it as PHX.

for one, there about to be real, real old. Nash and shaq aren't getting any younger. barbosa is a solid 6th man, and could be thier SG of the future.

I don't see why they'd be chomping at the bit to get even older and lose 2 prospects thier reportedly quite high on.

the pick is ncie, but they have to wait 2 years for it.

as i said, if ray was expiring, i think it changes things alot, but they don't want to get older for 2 years of amare's time there.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2008, 02:52:41 PM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34023
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
Not a chance.   


Barbosa is a small SG.  Celtics have one in House.  Rondo is a small PG.  Leaves the Celtics to small in the back court

Diaw is at his best playing C.  Celtics do not play that type of ball.





Ray, in the Final MVP conversation. 




Stay with Ray.

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2008, 02:54:21 PM »

Offline celts32

  • Open Roster Spot
  • Posts: 3
  • Tommy Points: 0
Why would the celts trade Ray Allen?  They just won the title...this team deserves a chance to repeat.  I would try to bring mostly the same team back for another run. 

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 02:54:32 PM »

Offline Jon

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6499
  • Tommy Points: 385
The thing about basketball is that you only play 5 players on the court at once and in the playoffs, you can get buy with an 8-9 man rotation.  Thus, unlike others sports like baseball and football that require a lot more depth, basketball is very star driven.  I mean think about it, Brady plays less than half a game.  Ortiz only bats 5 times a game or so.  There's nothing Brady can do to help the Pats if the other team has the ball.  And there's nothing that Ortiz can do to help the Sox if he's not up.  On the other hand, as the playoffs showed, stars can play virtually the entire game (Allen did at least once) and contribute offensively and defensively on practically every possession.  Thus, when you have an All Star, you don't trade him for two decent players. 

There's been countless examples of this going badly.  The Barkley deal, the Chamberlain deal, and more specifically the two trades that landed Allen and Garnett in the first place in green.  The Celtics certainly got the better end of that deal in the short term, and with the age of Pierce and Garnett, the short term is all that matters.

More importantly, where do Diaw and Barbosa even fit in?  Rondo is better than Barbosa, so Barbosa's not going to get much time at the 1.  Diaw's been a beneficiary of Steve Nash and is only marginally better than Posey. 

It's a terrible deal any way you twist it.  Stop thinking about the future, because it's going to ruin the present. 

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2008, 03:02:35 PM »

Offline Brickowski

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4207
  • Tommy Points: 423
I would certainly do this deal if Posey is not coming back.  If Posey is returning, he duplicates Diaw's role.

Certainly with Barbosa and Rondo the Celtics wouldhve the quickest backcourt in the league.

After June 30 the two Phoenix players are no longer BYC players, so the deal coukld be done anytime following expiration of the quiet period in July. But it could not be done on draft night.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 03:10:55 PM by Brickowski »

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 03:10:08 PM »

Offline Cman

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13068
  • Tommy Points: 120
I have a question.  I tried to do this trade on RealGM and it rejected it for not being within 125%, which does NOT make sense.  Barbosa is due 6.1 mill. for next year and Diaw is due 9.00 mill., totalling 15.1.  Allen is due 17.39 mill. for next year.  This should be well within 125% of each other.  Why is this getting rejected?

What do you think of this trade?  We would likely have to throw in our #1 in 2010 or 2011, whichever is allowed.

Thoughts?

Not quite sure why realgm rejected the trade, but it could be due to the timing.  Realgm is working off of last year's ##s, which don't work under the deal proposed, you are thinking in terms of next year's numbers -- I had a similar problem last year around this time.

In terms of the actual deal, I say pass.  Those two players are not enough of an upgrade to trade a future HOFer who almost won the Finals MVP award.  In addition, Ray's contract has two more years left on it, which will make it really valuable for trades during the 2009-2010 season.  I say hold onto the core that we have here in Boston and see what we can do over the next two years (in terms of championships).  If the wheels come off this thing a year from now, Ray Ray will be excellent trade fodder....  trade him now and you lose the oppty to trade him later.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2008, 03:13:05 PM »

Offline Reyquila

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1046
  • Tommy Points: 141
  • Let them hate, as long as they fear
Our most urgent need, IMO, is to find a big that will take care of business if Perk's shoulder continues to cause problems. And rotator problems will continue to flare when you less need them; so lets take care of business at that end.I dont see the need to be playing against the USA team, when he should be resting that shoulder.

Lets get a big or a PF to help out. BBD is not going to do it and Powe (Im his fan)is not big enough to be a regular 4. I think we have enough horses at the PG position as of now. If Posey and/or House leave, we will need another shooter in the wing so we can also address that for the future, which tends to creep on you faster than quick.
 The probable loss of Possey and/or House may change this team dramatically, so lets be ready to fill those voids, should they happen. Hope we dont lose Possey.
And someday in the midst of time,
When they ask you if you knew me
Remember that you were a friend of mine

Re: Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2008, 03:15:09 PM »

Offline Truth Hurts

  • Payton Pritchard
  • Posts: 109
  • Tommy Points: 16
would you who? im not so sure id be super high on it as PHX.

for one, there about to be real, real old. Nash and shaq aren't getting any younger. barbosa is a solid 6th man, and could be thier SG of the future.

I don't see why they'd be chomping at the bit to get even older and lose 2 prospects thier reportedly quite high on.

the pick is ncie, but they have to wait 2 years for it.

as i said, if ray was expiring, i think it changes things alot, but they don't want to get older for 2 years of amare's time there.


Actually, this would be very intriguing from PHO standpoint. They could conceivably have Shaq, Nash and Allen's contracts all expire together in two years. Diaw and Barbosa are on the books for four more years. They could have the draft pick and a ridiculous amount of cap room in 2010.
"Odom drains another 16-footer. It's 24-7, Lakers. They look so possessed on both ends that they've earned at least five sitting ovations from the Lakers' crowd." - Simmons