Kyrie Irving trade idea

[tarheelsxxiii]

I agree with your general point, Jvalin, that you can assess a player based on your eye test; if you were discussing a 76er, your argument would be received differently.

There is data to corroborate your argument that Kyrie is not a good teammate. 

For the 2017-2018 season, Boston's most used lineup was excellent:
Brown-Tatum-Horford-Baynes-KYRIE (354 minutes played). 

The Celtics had only two better lineups all season, actually; at least with sample sizes reasonable enough to interpret:

Brown-Tatum-Horford-Baynes-ROZIER (115 mins)

Brown-Tatum-Horford-Baynes-SMART (43 mins)

Woah.  That means the Celtics' best lineups consisted of their starting 5 after swapping out Kyrie for Rozier or Smart.  That's pretty powerful stuff.



Were the Celtics very good with Kyrie? Yes. He's a net negative defender, but very good scorer that offsets his defense.  But that the Celtics are better with two younger, borderline-starting PGs speaks volumes about his value as a teammate.

Add the fact that Kyrie (injury-prone, very reliant on quickness) will be due somewhere ~$40 million in his mid 30s, and there is plenty of cause for concern. 

Well done, Jvalin.

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2018/11/12/boston-celtics-holiday-gift-guide/

[Roy H.]

Just one example. That's all I'm asking for. It must be an easy thing to do, given that ''the criteria is worthless''.

You’re looking for a guy who combined at least two of court vision, defense, and elite shooting, but who wasn’t a team player?

Kobe fits that, right? Good defender, good court vision.

We probably need a definition of “team player”, though.

[GreenFaith1819]

The Boston Celtics will win at LEAST ONE - perhaps TWO - Championships within the next few years.

And Little Mountain will be a BIG part of it.

I wasn't always on board with him being here - with IT4 being traded away. But I am, now.

Kyrie took a BIG risk in forcing his way from CLE. Danny took a BIG risk in getting him here.

These choices / risks - will ALL pay out in the end for BOS.

Everything will come FULL CIRCLE for Kyrie, Hayward, Big Al and this TEAM - stat hounds be danged.

[nickagneta]

Just one example. That's all I'm asking for. It must be an easy thing to do, given that ''the criteria is worthless''.

You’re looking for a guy who combined at least two of court vision, defense, and elite shooting, but who wasn’t a team player?

Kobe fits that, right? Good defender, good court vision.

We probably need a definition of “team player”, though.

Jimmy Butler seems like a guy that fits the criteria. Good asst/to ratio(better than Smart), great defender, extremely good shooter, at least we'll over average(TS% at 59%or so). Heck he checks off three boxes. I wonder if his team mates in Chicago and Minnesota sees him as a team player.

[Jvalin]

Just one example. That's all I'm asking for. It must be an easy thing to do, given that ''the criteria is worthless''.

You’re looking for a guy who combined at least two of court vision, defense, and elite shooting, but who wasn’t a team player?

Kobe fits that, right? Good defender, good court vision.

We probably need a definition of “team player”, though.

Are we talking about this guy?



Kobe wasn't even a willing passer. I'm looking for a guy who actually passed the ball.

Anyway, I'm writing from Greece and it's 3:55 a.m. here. I'm off to watch the 4th quarter of Giannis against the Pistons before I call it a day.

[coco]

Last time I checked; Cs made the ECF without AD.  Kylie and Hayward for AD?  I would pass.

[nickagneta]

Also the criteria are easy to disprove by showing all the great team players that don't fit the criteria. Tony Allen. James Posey. Kendrick Perkins. Aron Baynes. Daniel Theis. Jayson Tatum. And on and on.

[Roy H.]

Just one example. That's all I'm asking for. It must be an easy thing to do, given that ''the criteria is worthless''.

You’re looking for a guy who combined at least two of court vision, defense, and elite shooting, but who wasn’t a team player?

Kobe fits that, right? Good defender, good court vision.

We probably need a definition of “team player”, though.

Are we talking about this guy?



Kobe wasn't even a willing passer. I'm looking for a guy who actually passed the ball.

Anyway, I'm writing from Greece and it's 3:55 a.m. here. I'm off to watch the 4th quarter of Giannis against the Pistons before I call it a day.

That's adding a fourth criteria then, right?  And, how much is enough passing?  Kobe averaged 4.7 assists per game in his career, despite being a ball hog.

Iverson is probably another one who fits the "good court vision / good defense" criteria, and he averaged a lot of assists, too.  I'm not sure that I'd call him a great team player, though.

Enjoy the game.